hello tao bums

[chris2011]

Just wondering if anyone knows why he was divorced and why there is a topic in this forum that questions ore or less "what does Mantak Chia have to say about threesomes considering.." Something along those lines.. At any rate I was recently given a book the "cultivating male sexual energy" and am wondering why he is a failure in marriage - sorry to be blunt but I won't be coy.

 

To be fair and clear - I'm not asking whether his theories are in-accurate, accurate, functional, dysfunctional, partial or complete. I'm asking simply if anyone knows why he got divorced and why there is a blocked post on him. Just wondering essentially if this dude did the flip he describes in his book of New Ages gurus, got freaky on his wife, had a 3some (or some other issue she wasn't cool with) and got a divorce passing it off as spiritual evolution. Granted I'm putting lose things Im gathering through google on him so no disrespect meant here but.. Honestly some of it seems to be common sense if you've paid attention to your body at all, some of it seems insightful and some of it seems ridiculous. Anyway more interested here initially to here about him and this divorce if anyone knows, then from there will see what I think of his ideas (original stolen or borrowed what have you)

Thanks!

C

Edited July 23, 2011 by chris2011

[VCraigP]

Just wondering if anyone knows why he was divorced and why there is a topic in this forum that questions ore or less "what does Mantak Chia have to say about threesomes considering.." Something along those lines.. At any rate I was recently given a book the "cultivating male sexual energy" and am wondering why he is a failure in marriage - sorry to be blunt but I won't be coy.

 

To be fair and clear - I'm not asking whether his theories are in-accurate, accurate, functional, dysfunctional, partial or complete. I'm asking simply if anyone knows why he got divorced and why there is a blocked post on him. Just wondering essentially if this dude did the flip he describes in his book of New Ages gurus, got freaky on his wife, had a 3some (or some other issue she wasn't cool with) and got a divorce passing it off as spiritual evolution. Granted I'm putting lose things Im gathering through google on him so no disrespect meant here but.. Honestly some of it seems to be common sense if you've paid attention to your body at all, some of it seems insightful and some of it seems ridiculous. Anyway more interested here initially to here about him and this divorce if anyone knows, then from there will see what I think of his ideas (original stolen or borrowed what have you)

Thanks!

C

 

Answer: Mantak Chia is a human being. What else do you want to know?

 

PS - His ex wife is a human being as well.

 

Clear enough?

 

Peace Out.

[chris2011]

Actually not clear at all. Super immature and dodging of you. Why you respond if you have nothing relevant to say? Anybody with a real answer to the obviously uncomfortable nerve I hit.. Could it be?

 

Answer: Mantak Chia is a human being. What else do you want to know?

 

PS - His ex wife is a human being as well.

 

Clear enough?

 

Peace Out.

[tragblack]

It sounded like a "real" answer to me...

[VCraigP]

Actually not clear at all. Super immature and dodging of you. Why you respond if you have nothing relevant to say? Anybody with a real answer to the obviously uncomfortable nerve I hit.. Could it be?

 

Hi Chris. How are you?

 

What are your interests? How old are you?

Have you done any mind/body practice?

 

This topic has been discussed in detail here at TTB a long time ago.

 

Here is a question for you. Is every teacher of qigong a complete and whole being without any human flaws?

 

In my experience all human beings are not perfected. That has something to do with the reason we are here on Earth I think. I am dodging nothing. I freely admit and would freely discuss that I studied with M.Chia beginning in the early 1980's. Further I have for MANY years contemplated and discussed the strengths and weaknesses of what I learned then, what it may or may not have done for me and others, and so on.

 

By starting your presence here on TTB's with this type of question I can only assume you are Trolling for some satisfaction to create a heated flame-war defending M.Chia and his system. I will not do that, I have no interest in it.

 

I value many things I learned from M.Chia and I also value his role as one who expanded the dissemination of qigong in the West. He is not an immortal flawless being. He is not a perfectly balance sage. Are you?

 

Have you ever been in a relationship? By the way, you may also take note that there are always two people in a relationship (at least, in this case there is the son as well).

 

Finally, I think it is a weak argument to say that his whole system is flawed and use as proof the fact of his divorce.

 

All this was taken into consideration in my response to you, especially the fact that I consider your opening to be entirely trollish.

 

I would be fascinated to receive an intelligent reply to this.

 

Respectfully.

 

Craig

[chris2011]

Respectfully,

If you could post a link to the topics discussing my specific questions it would be appreciated. How old I am, where I am from, and what I practice is not relevant as I a not interested in proving myself to people I don't know on a forum. My intent is to do my own due diligence before blindly accepting a "master's" philosophies and putting them into practice. Thus someone who claims to be a master (currently "grand master" according to his website) IS NOT by definition susceptible to we other mere earthlings flaws. I know a master who wishes to remain anonymous and they have transcended these issues a long time ago - this being the characteristic that separates a Sage from the rest of us. Furthermore this master has told me to quit being irresponsible do my research, if seemingly appropriate at this point put into action the practice to see what benefit there is in my own experience. What more is there to say.

 

So that being said 2 simple questions with 2 simple answers. If you want to be a bottle neck to inhibit the flow of fact go ahead. Bottom line is if you can't live what you purport to teach you don't really know how to do it yourself and since you don't have the truly subtle awareness that comes with experience and experience only its just a figment of your imagination no matter how poetic, lofty or articulate your words are. So please with all respect I am simply trying to research a self proclaimed aster who is divorced (fact) to see what weight there is to his theories and philosophies. Someone's character and what they are capable of accomplishing in the long-term with the philosophies they incorporate in their life says much about the usefulness of philosophies. So what I am starting to gather at this point is that for me he may be more of a guide light from which now I can search out older documents that were written by true sages when there were no printing presses, publishers and profit motives. This once again affirms that regardless of the society they originate from I will stick to the classics!

 

Thanks!

[chris2011]

Respectfully,

If you could post a link to the topics discussing my specific questions it would be appreciated. How old I am, where I am from, and what I practice is not relevant as I am not interested in proving myself to people I don't know on a forum. My intent is to do my own due diligence before blindly accepting a "master's" philosophies and putting them into practice. Thus someone who claims to be a master (currently "grand master" according to his website) IS NOT by definition susceptible to we other mere earthlings flaws. I know a master who wishes to remain anonymous and they have transcended these issues a long time ago - this being the characteristic that separates a Sage from the rest of us. Furthermore this master has told me to quit being irresponsible do my research, if seemingly appropriate at this point put into action the practice to see what benefit there is in my own experience. What more is there to say.

 

So that being said 2 simple questions with 2 simple answers. If you want to be a bottle neck to inhibit the flow of fact go ahead. Bottom line is if you can't live what you purport to teach you don't really know how to do it yourself and since you don't have the truly subtle awareness that comes with experience and experience only its just a figment of your imagination no matter how poetic, lofty or articulate your words are. So please with all respect I am simply trying to research a self proclaimed aster who is divorced (fact) to see what weight there is to his theories and philosophies. Someone's character and what they are capable of accomplishing in the long-term with the philosophies they incorporate in their life says much about the usefulness of philosophies. So what I am starting to gather at this point is that for me he may be more of a guide light from which now I can search out older documents that were written by true sages when there were no printing presses, publishers and profit motives. This once again affirms that regardless of the society they originate from I will stick to the classics!

 

Thanks!

Edited July 24, 2011 by chris2011

[chris2011]

Sorry don't know why it posted twice.

 

I do hope that you realize as I mentioned he may be another guide light in my search for original manuscripts. But his ideas are in truth far from new in the west. Read Napolean Hill's "think and grow rich" for example. An extremely well known and popular book in America. Although it does not describe methods and practices it acknowledges that many men find this power and use it wisely. It is not some experience owned exclusively by Taoist masters. Sometimes this dude sounds like Rhonda Byrne and (I am still reading it with great interest)

 

So I apologize I am not a typical forum goer - "trolling" if you mean trying to stir shit up? No. I apologize though that initial post was after googling him and then eventually everytime I get to nitty gritty ots blocked (like the link to a post in your forum that comes up in google.)

 

Look all this aside sorry if I came of wrong but I'm interested in the TRUE details not lofty idealism etc. Someone may be a guidelight to find the original manuscripts but if they have not mastered what they teach I do not want to take them as a role model except for perhaps in the failure paths they exhibit within their given discipline. I believe most would agree what not to do can at times be equally or more important as what to do.

 

I did not mean to imply the philosophies he subscribes to are failures or incomplete by any means. I think many of them, upon reflection on oneself, are self evident truths. Anyway I do apologize I wasn't trying to piss anyone off. Peace

Edited July 24, 2011 by chris2011

[VCraigP]

 

though that initial post was after googling him and then eventually everytime I get to nitty gritty ots blocked (like the link to a post in your forum that comes up in google.)

 

Look all this aside sorry if I came of wrong but I'm interested in the TRUE details not lofty idealism etc. Someone may be a guidelight to find the original manuscripts but if they have not mastered what they teach I do not want to take them as a role model except for perhaps in the failure paths they exhibit within their given discipline. I believe most would agree what not to do can at times be equally or more important as what to do.

 

I did not mean to imply the philosophies he subscribes to are failures or incomplete by any means. I think many of them, upon reflection on oneself, are self evident truths. Anyway I do apologize I wasn't trying to piss anyone off. Peace

Hi

 

thanks for your reply.

 

Let me try again. This is not "my" forum. I don't know what link may have been blocked. If you have questions about the forum you should contact the moderators. Start with Mal for technical questions.

 

I am not even very good at doing searches on this forum.

 

You must understand that there has been over the years a great deal of attack directed against M.Chia on this forum, so much so that a post like yours seemed to be more of the same. I don't find that approach useful.

 

Further I don't find much merit in discussing the man's personal life. I don't know why he got divorced. I highly doubt you will find a true account of that on the internet. Also, you do seem to neglect the role of the wife in the relationship. As I pointed out, there are two people to consider.

 

Here is what I will say. I highly suggest you study his foundation material. Put away "Cultivating Male Sexual energy" until you have mastered the inner smile, six healing sounds and Microcosmic orbit. Also then get some basic understanding of Fusion meditation to further balance the emotional energies. All of this assuming you really want to explore the healing tao material. If possible, seek out an instructor.

 

Also I suggest going to ; alchemicaltaoism.com to peruse the many insights there regarding M.Chia's materials and certain warnings and pitfalls others have experienced.

 

It has been widely accepted in this community that sexual practice as a starting point is a really bad idea.

There is much foundational work to be done before contemplating working in that area. This is assuming you have no other energy work, mind-body practice experience.

 

In summary, I cannot answer your initial question. I still think you line of inquiry is flawed.

 

You speak of "original manuscripts" and "sticking to the classics" but Cultivating male sexual energy is not about philosophy, nor is much of Chia's materials. He presents techniques and practices to cultivate jing, qi and shen. Whether or not these techniques or practices will provide benefit is up to the individual to discover. If you have such doubt I do not think you will get any benefit.

 

Further you said "I know a master who wishes to remain anonymous and they have transcended these issues a long time ago - this being the characteristic that separates a Sage from the rest of us. Furthermore this master has told me to quit being irresponsible do my research, if seemingly appropriate at this point put into action the practice to see what benefit there is in my own experience. What more is there to say."

 

 

If you know such a one, why not study with him and have done with it? Why not follow his advice? Do the practice to see what benefit there is for yourself. Do your research. You would find better fruit in your research to discover the benefits or detriments of the practice as it stands rather than try to discover how M.Chia's life is working, or not.

 

IN the end I think to discover the Tao of Relationship with another human being is more important that cultivating male sexual energy. Perhaps this is your conclusion as well since you have placed such great weight on the failure of M.Chia's marriage.

[chris2011]

Okay sorry its taken time to clarify. My main concern ultimately is HIS character. (Not his wife since I am not examining her techniques/practices for adoption. I do believe in the general principles and concepts. My concern is if his character is very questionable that this has most likely tainted his writings and thus gives rise to the possibility that so many people have had troubling results with his practices and techniques.

 

Remember by definition essentially practices and techniques are simply instruments to get to the principle, the understanding, the experience - whatever you may wish to call it.

 

If these practices or techniques are flawed, abhorrent, or have deviant energies etc. Its very unlikely that they will lead to higher states of shared sexuality/relationship/consciousness/peace/enlightenment. Whatever the personal goal may be.

 

If I could perhaps ask this being that you have had personal experience with him. Would you trust him with a very deep secret, your bank account and kids? If not that is why I would want to search out the original manuscripts detailing the practices. Because someone that is not trustworthy I would not feel comfortable that they translated said practices techniques with honesty and or clarity because of their dishonesty.

 

Of course in reality I cannot know that the original author had integrity - particularly if they lived centuries or millenia ago. But I can choose not to adopt techniques and practices of someone KNOWN to be lacking in character. And this is where the intuitive sense of a "red flag" feeling becomes important to me personally.

 

Please understand I didn't come in here with an "insiders" understanding of previous attacks here on this guy. I just heard of him a week ago. I am just the type of person to ask questions though.

 

As for asking questions here. The "master" I know or whatever you want to call him isn't Taoist and doesn't comment on or give advice on areas of life he is unfamiliar with so long as he doesn't see an implicit danger or failure path that seems highly likely to occur. He was exposed primarily in Native American and Aboriginal mysticism. Effectively he is Taoist in a sense, though, by nature of his interactions in the world. He doesn't call himself or identify with anything in particular - just says he is a "free man". I guess you could say his mastery is in his way of existing in the world. Married happily for almost 70 years, respected and called grandpa by almost everyone family and local community and his life is the testament itself to his level of consciousness and virtue - certainly not in knowing every esoteric text or practice. But he encourages me to investigate what I will. The one thing he says he knows for sure is that ones path will NOT work for another, so all we can do is investigate and borrow clues while we are here, and if I'm serious ultimately it will cost me my life. (In death eventually literally but more to the point also in the seriousness of dedication while I'm here day to day) I mean we all do in one way or another so don't misconstrue this to be meant in some extreme sense. Just that its seriousness with perseverance and dedication in practice and also in observing the subtle energies and signs in your body. Point being regardless of what he calls himself or I call myself I think their are many wonderful universal truths that are conveyed through Taoism. Discerning which elements within Taoism seem to be most healthy and appropriate is just me trying to use some common and intuitive sense.

 

As for my experience with meditation it is limited to meditation without technique. I lived in a Zen commune of sorts for about a year at the end of the 90's and when it comes to meditation have never much liked technique and was surprised at how much even Zen had as it actually seems to interfere and not allow me to get to a deeper and lasting experience that I can carry through the day. The sensei there thought it was because I have always been okay to sit quietly by myself and so may have involuntarily learned to meditate from a young age.

 

However. This is not to say that experience with meditation of this nature has resolved all of my understandings about energy how I can work work with it in my life.

 

So to me I see these as more energy excercises and practices - much the same as doing pushups or squats to build capacity in a given area, as opposed to meditation. I want to be able to share this sexual energy on a deeper level with a woman and for this think that certain techniques or practices may prove helpful. I am not looking at this as a path to enlightenment, just to share something deeper with a woman whom I love. At any rate we may just explore on our own at this point. The concept of sex energy being for a higher purpose is not new to either of us and we have both been experimenting for a decade or more with it... You learn a thing or two from your own experience as well.

 

Regards

Edited July 26, 2011 by chris2011

[Dainin]

Hello Chris2011,

 

Have you tried asking him yourself?

 

For more information, and to contact Master Chia direct...

[chris2011]

Hello Chris2011,

 

Have you tried asking him yourself?

 

For more information, and to contact Master Chia direct...

 

 

 

No I haven't actually. I figured if it was public knowledge I could find out. It doesn't seem to be and I am not trying to dig into someones personal life directly. While I don't feel its inappropriate to research public info, I do think its inappropriate and disrespectful to contact people you don't know about things as personal as a previous marriage. I think at this point its a dead issue. Good luck to everyone here, I apologize if I brought up on old issue as far as this forum is concerned.

Peace

[shanshang]

Hi Chris,

I'm new to this group too, and the reason I found the site was because I googled mantak chia's divorce. I too wondered why he got divorced, infidelity, loss of interest or just disinterested, apart too long and too often, the obvious answer that he is human doesn't quite work with a guy who is trying to tell you to become more than what the mainstream sees as human. Yes of course what he's trying to teach is that we reach the human potential which the mainstream sees for the most part as nonsense. So you can imagine my momentary surprise to see your post and the off handed reaction here. For myself his character doesn't matter much as I see him more a merchant than anything else. The guru disciple relationship doesn't seem to be too apparent though I'm sure he has his inner circle and the usual groupies. You pay your money, learn the techniques, you practice and away you go, you don't have to sell your soul to get the goods. Whether he meets up to christian standards of right and wrong with regards to fidelity doesn't really matter. In fact, as I understand it, what is being practiced is considered spiritism and it's a no no, can you say spawn of satan. I'm talking about the protestants and though I'm not sure, I'll bet the catholics would be right in there gathering wood while the stakes are being set up.