Etymology of Wu Wei

[Stigweard]

Excuse the apparent double-up on other current threads. I am just setting this up for my own indexing

 

為無為，wèi wú wèi, appears in Laozi Ch 4 Line 14 and is the focus point of much discussion and varied views. Rather than rely on common online dictionaries I thought I would set up a close examination of the character etymology.

 

為 wèi has 2 pictographic variants.

 

Firstly it could be a picture of a hand feeding or leading an elephant:

 

 

Used in this sense we can have the meanings of "lead, govern, handle."

 

Secondly it could be the image of a mother monkey:

 

 

In this sense we have the meanings of "act, do, serve".

 

無 wú also has 2 pictographic variants.

 

Firstly it could be a hill that has been cleared of all its trees:

 

 

In this sense we have the meanings of "no, without, negative, destitute, lack".

 

Secondly, and interestingly, it is a dancing shaman which links to the Wu Shamans of ancient China.

 

 

Now why was this used to designate a sense of "nothingness or not-beingness"?

 

Of exceptional interest is that Wu designates specifically "female shaman; sorceress" as opposed to xi 覡 "male shaman; sorcerer". So we have a continuation of Laozi's emphasis of the femine or Yin principle as a philosophical axis.

 

Also the Wu shaman predominently dealt in the unknown, mystery of life, engaging in spiritism, sorcery, spell casting etc. So perhaps we can see the idea of a connection with the invisible, unknown, mysterious sphere of life hence the meanings of "nothingness, non-existence, no, not, negative.

 

Perhaps also, and this is only conjecture, when the Wu shamans danced the tassels become the focus of attention and the dancer “disappears”.

 

Personally I prefer the Wu shaman connection rather than the forest clearing root.

 

I want this first post to be purely the etymology. I will add my own take in following posts.

 

 

References:

 

http://www.internati...mologyHome.aspx

 

http://www.yellowbridge.com/

 

http://www.alice-dsl...iren/index.html

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Wu_(shaman)

[Marblehead]

Well, so far I haven't had to change my mind about my understanding or question your wisdom.

[Stigweard]

Well, so far I haven't had to change my mind about my understanding or question your wisdom.

Hehehe ... I am heartened to hear so on both counts

[ChiDragon]

The problem using phonetics for the Chinese characters is really fanatic. It's better use the Pinyin system to distinguish the characters. It is still not perfect but it's close to the pronunciation.

 

If we just say "wu" without looking at the actual character, we cannot determine what the actual character is. Perhaps, if the character is within a phrase, then it may be determined from the context. Otherwise, we have to assume what we think what it might be. If we're looking at "wu", it can be both characters as shown below.

 

無(wu2): None

舞(wu3): Dance

[Stigweard]

[Stigweard]

Just looking at the Seal Script similarities between 無 and 舞 and 巫:

 

無 "none, nothing":

 

 

 

舞 "dance":

 

 

 

巫 "shaman, sorceress":

 

 

 

I believe that all three are close enough to each other to make some very interesting connections.

 

[Stigweard]

Ahh ... and there is this:

 

"The first Chinese dictionary of characters, the (121 CE) Shuowen Jiezi defines wu as zhu 祝 "sacrifice; prayer master; invoker; priest" (祝也 女能以舞降神者也 象从工 两人舞形, tr. Hopkins 1920:432) and analyzes the Seal graph, "An Invoker. A woman who can serve the Invisible, and by posturing bring down the spirits."

 

Let me reemphasize: A woman who can serve the Invisible.

 

 

Reference:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_(shaman)#Characters

[Stigweard]

Oh, oh!!! And this:

 

Second, wu 巫 could be cognate with wu 舞 "to dance". Based on analysis of ancient characters, Hopkins (1920, 1945) proposed that wu 巫 "shaman", wu 無 "not have; without", and wu 舞 "dance", "can all be traced back to one primitive figure of a man displaying by the gestures of his arms and legs the thaumaturgic powers of his inspired personality" (1945:5).

 

Hehehehe

 

Reference:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_(shaman)#Etymologies

[Marblehead]

Well, as I have said before, we should not forget to dance.

[ChiDragon]

Just to be clear, are you disputing the connection of 無 wú with the Wu shamans??

 

Yes, actually I am disputing with all these three characters. I do admit I was confused with the phonetics "Wu" just by itself and the pictogram of the ancient characters.

 

巫(wu1): Shamans

無(wu2): None

舞(wu3): Dance

[Stigweard]

Yes, actually I am disputing with all these three characters. I do admit I was confused with the phonetics "Wu" just by itself and the pictogram of the ancient characters.

 

巫(wu1): Shamans

無(wu2): None

舞(wu3): Dance

For the purpose of this discussion, may I ask if you can provide some support to your argument please?

 

[ChiDragon]

Oh, oh!!! And this:

 

Second, wu 巫 could be cognate with wu 舞 "to dance". Based on analysis of ancient characters, Hopkins (1920, 1945) proposed that wu 巫 "shaman", wu 無 "not have; without", and wu 舞 "dance", "can all be traced back to one primitive figure of a man displaying by the gestures of his arms and legs the thaumaturgic powers of his inspired personality" (1945:5).

 

Hehehehe

 

Reference:

 

http://en.wikipedia....an)#Etymologies

I don't see these three characters could be cognate, at least not through my life experience.

 

PS...

I don't see any significant truth in your reference.

[Stigweard]

I don't see these three characters could be cognate, at least not through my life experience.

 

PS...

I don't see any significant truth in your reference.

Hmmm ... not exactly the sort of support that would sway an debate. But I thank you for your perspective anyway.

 

[Otis]

One thing that I think is interesting is that it is not just "wu wei".

 

It is "wei wu wei". Doing, not doing. Yang/yin. A cycle.

[Stigweard]

[ChiDragon]

為無為，

則無不治。

 

With an attitude of Wu Wei,

Then, there is nothing that cannot be handled.

[Stigweard]

為無為，

則無不治。

 

With an attitude of Wu Wei,

Then, there is nothing that cannot be handled.

Yup, I can see how you arrived at that. I dig it.

 

[Marblehead]

One thing that I think is interesting is that it is not just "wu wei".

 

It is "wei wu wei". Doing, not doing. Yang/yin. A cycle.

 

Thanks for pointing that out. This is important, I think.

[ChiDragon]

Thanks for pointing that out. This is important, I think.

Really....???

[ChiDragon]

為無為，

則無不治。

With an attitude of Wu Wei,

Then, there is nothing that cannot be handled.

 

Yup, I can see how you arrived at that. I dig it.

 

It was not what it seems to be, but that is the actual translation.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

whether Wu Wei means to accomplish without striving, or lead and nurture like a dancing shaman, I think these are not too different. Like many things in Taoism, everything lines up the same way no matter how far you get into it, if you are willing to look at them with an open mind.

[dawei]

Personally I prefer the Wu shaman connection rather than the forest clearing root.

I am with you 100% on this. That it gives a sense of ritual [dance] is obvious to me. I might even say there is a sacrifice occurring

 

Forest clearing? I guess the chainsaw was invented earlier than I thought

[Marblehead]

Really....???

 

Hehehe. Did I state the obvious once again?

[Informer]

So could it be doing without doing? Like when one is meditating or working internally there is not necessarily physical doing, yet there is still doing.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I am with you 100% on this. That it gives a sense of ritual [dance] is obvious to me. I might even say there is a sacrifice occurring

 

Forest clearing? I guess the chainsaw was invented earlier than I thought

 

The "lead/nurture like a dancing shaman" brings to mind Chapter 29 of DDJ. The shaman works with the forces of nature to bring healing, health, and harmony. This is the same for applying Wu Wei -- one treats the situation/object as though sacred and does not impose anything out of it's nature. Thus, viewing Wu Wei as "nurture like a Shaman" seems to illuminate the meaning, in my present opinion.

 

Ch. 29 (Dawei, I remember you didn't feel "sacred" was appropriately used for this chapter. Not sure if that negates the understanding/meaning hwv.):

 

Do you think you can take over the Universe and then improve it?

It can never be done.

The Universe is sacred, it can never be improved.

If you try to change it, you will ruin it.

If you try to possess it, you will only lose it.

In the Ten Thousand Things, as well as man,

one never feels quite the same everyday.

So, sometimes things are ahead and sometimes behind.

Sometimes breathing becomes difficult, sometimes it is easy.

Sometimes there is strength and sometimes there is weakness.

Sometimes one feels up and cheerful, but sometimes one feels down.

This is natural; for we are all subject to the Heavenly bodies that influence our lives.

The Sage experiences these as well as ordinary men, for he is one of the Ten Thousand

Things.