Three Kinds of Spiritual Teachings.

[Aaron]

Hello VMarco,

 

I would recommend you stop while you're ahead. Just from the very short time you've been on this thread I've recognized a few things about you, first you are extremely intolerant of any belief system that you don't agree with, second you tend to be condescending and dismissive of anyone who disagrees with you, as in you are right and obviously they are just idiots if they can't figure that out. This is the oxymoron that crops up on this forum, all the people that seem to present themselves as having this grand understanding of truth, tend to be the least capable of interacting with others in a civil way on this forum.

 

For me I abhor intolerance, because there is no need for it. One can easily express their own opinions without denigrating someone else's beliefs. If they can't then they most likely don't have a firm grasp of their own beliefs to begin with. The other thing is when you quote the same text over and over to prove your point, then maybe you need to look for other text, because in most cases if you have to repeatedly post it, it's not proving anything, except that you haven't read enough to come up with more original posts.

 

Finally, if you are telling me the "truth" then I know it's not the truth. Those who know don't say and those who do, don't know. Everything that the great teachers tell us is only what we can understand, there is so much more that can never be explained and even trying to is pointless, because it is dependent on one's own experience of these fundamental truths. So when you start to bad mouth Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and all those other religions, keep in mind that there is not much difference, once one peels back the layers, between these religions and Buddhism. The only thing that we can do as people is examine these and ask whether they are right for us. It's not our duty, nor our purpose, to tells others what they should and shouldn't do, but rather to live our lives as an example for others, and in so doing they will see that what we do is right and follow accordingly.

 

Aaron

[Vmarco]

[Seth Ananda]

Many Christians believe this: "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand....after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back."

That is a scary but true reality. It is nice to see you say Many not all.

 

Unfortunately there are no options to make multi millions change their beliefs, just like that, without a religious cleansing [Mass Murder] which is not a sane option.

This to me is why Mysticism is so Important, as It easily leads to more openness, and Love of the world.

 

When people start talking like 'we have to throw out the whole religious system, or we are all dead' then how do you 'Enforce' such a throwing out. This kind of war thinking will only be met by equal resistance and just entrench each side further in the cycle of suffering. That literally will tear the planet apart. Its bordering on Nazism.

[Vmarco]

[Aaron]

[Informer]

I would be intolerant of intolerance if I was an oxymoron.

[Vmarco]

[Vmarco]

[Vmarco]

A rose may be beautiful, but if someone tries to pluck it and gets pricked by a thorn, then even though it is beautiful, the only thing that will be remembered is the thorn. I prefer not to be that thorn.

 

Aaron

 

What is beauty?

 

In response to the question: What about the beauty and goodness in the world? ACIM responds:

 

"Following the above answer, we can see that the so-called positive aspects of our world are equally as illusory as the negative ones. They are both aspects of a dualistic perceptual universe, which but reflect the dualistic split in the mind of Man. The famous statement "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' is also applicable here, since what one deems as beauty, another may find to be aesthetically displeasing, and vice versa. Similarly, what one society judges as good, another may judge as bad and against the common good. This can be evidenced by a careful study of history, sociology, and cultural anthropology. Therefore, using the criterion for reality of eternal changelessness that is employed in the Course, we can conclude that nothing that the world deems beautiful or good is real, and so it cannot have been created by Reality.

 

Therefore, given that both beauty and goodness are relative concepts and thus are illusory, we should follow the injunction to always ask ourselves: "What is the meaning of what I behold?" (text, p. 619; T-3I.VII.13:5). In other words, even though something beautiful is illusory, it remains neutral, like everything else in the world. Given to the ego, it serves its unholy purpose of reinforcing separation, specialness, and guilt. Given to the Holy Spirit, on the other hand, it serves the holy purpose of leading us to an experience of truth that lies beyond perception. For example, a sunset can reinforce the belief that I can find peace and well-being only while in its presence, or it can help remind me that the true beauty of Man is my Identity, and that this beauty is internal, within my mind and independent of anything outside it."V

[3bob]

?!? Did you read the part where I said I feel no particular Bias towards any the 3?

I actually really like all 3. I am a great fan of many traditions.

 

I was hoping if anything that it would help remove the 'my path is better than yours' thing.

 

It is in no way meant to say that 3 'Beyond' is higher than 2 or 1. I possibly should have made that clearer.

 

If anything, concerning the Buddhists, I wanted to show a way that Buddhist Ideas can be practiced along side ideas from other traditions. The Interfaith thing is strongly affected by comparative philosophy, and so far still has trouble figuring out how to add Buddhism with out reducing it to an eternalist philosophy, which isn't fair to Buddhists.

 

 

I read several places where you stated your bias and that is no biggy, the problem as I see it is trying to present and self-justify such bias under a half-baked no bias format ?!? -- All of which isn't fair to who?

[Seth Ananda]

 

 

I read several places where you stated your bias and that is no biggy, the problem as I see it is trying to present and self-justify such bias under a half-baked no bias format ?!? -- All of which isn't fair to who?

I love them all. Just lately I have found the beyond teachings very useful personally.

 

I am not sure if that really constitutes much [if any] of a bias.

 

I always have liked your posts, but I am wondering..., I know I used to be on your side in the TTB debates vs the Buddhists, trying to make all enlightenment's mean the same thing, but then one day I suddenly left the 'team' because I realized that they are not. Did this hurt your feelings? Are you reading some malicious Intent or agenda into my words because of that?

 

I do not think the Buddhist enlightenment is the only Enlightenment of Value, at all. I do not necessarily believe that Its higher than the others either. This is not an attempt to brain wash people towards Buddhism, but rather an attempt [poor as it may be] to help people understand the processes traditions use to gain the 'goods' so to speak.

 

There are a number of options I have not voiced as yet as to possible flaws in the Buddhist perspective [and other systems], but I wish to write it in an article format. This is also not to negate Buddhism, because its philosophy works, but simply to promote less absolutism.

[Vajrahridaya]

Buddha was to said to have inspired the Kalachakra Initiation,...initiating Shambhala warriors for the dissolution of religion (sets of beliefs) through understanding the five aggregates and the subsequent exposing of spiritual wisdom,...the “Holy War” described in the Kalachakra.

 

The dawning of the next era of enlightenment that is predicted (some say by Buddha)will proliferate the great spiritual uprising described in the Kalachakra,...as the dark age of ignorance shifts to an illuminated age of heart-mind.

 

The Kalachakra initiation is meant to plant a seed of a love that is not based on the insanity of fear and hope. It inspirits a fierce compassion that does not arise from the five skandhas.

 

However, American and European Buddhists often reinterprete the Kalachakra so it appears less menacing for the Abrahamic religions.

 

The Kalachakra Initiation is a confirmation, an affirmation and a pledge to support the Shambhala war, to liberate all sentient beings, and to participate in the co-creation of peace on earth — a genuine peace that will reveal Shambhala.

 

V

 

Why can it not be realized as a metaphor for internal Jihad? Like the Bhagavad Gita? Since in spirituality we are dealing with subtle, more subconscious realities, why can it not be applied as such?

 

Do all us Buddhists who have taken refuge have to take up arms and start slaughtering Abrahamic religious zealots?

[C T]

Why can it not be realized as a metaphor for internal Jihad? Like the Bhagavad Gita? Since in spirituality we are dealing with subtle, more subconscious realities, why can it not be applied as such?

 

Do all us Buddhists who have taken refuge have to take up arms and start slaughtering Abrahamic religious zealots?

Yeah, it seems rather strange to apply such a loaded word - war? Honestly, i think what Mr Vmarco meant to emphasize was the fact that enormous efforts will be needed to bring about a radical shift from the now-epidemic confusion and invert it to its enlightened face. Can be done, though - imagine.... all the people, living for todaaay!

 

Even so, it still boggles my mind why a person who advocates the 'short' path have to make such lengthy posts?

 

Have you any ideas, VJ?

[tragblack]

Unfortunately there are no options to make multi millions change their beliefs, just like that, without a religious cleansing [Mass Murder] which is not a sane option.

 

Or some kind of event in the world that would call for a restructuring of major world beliefs. My favorite fantasy is the "intelligent aliens visit and share" scenario. I know there are groups of people out there who believe this to be the only solution, and is indeed on the way, and I have to admit, it would all just be so convenient...

 

Eckhart Tolle surprizingly said, "we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself"

 

I like this and hope I remember it.

[Seth Ananda]

Or some kind of event in the world that would call for a restructuring of major world beliefs. My favorite fantasy is the "intelligent aliens visit and share" scenario. I know there are groups of people out there who believe this to be the only solution, and is indeed on the way, and I have to admit, it would all just be so convenient...

 

Lol wouldn't it. The Christians would just turn them into a manifestation of the Anti Christ though...

[Vajrahridaya]

Yeah, it seems rather strange to apply such a loaded word - war? Honestly, i think what Mr Vmarco meant to emphasize was the fact that enormous efforts will be needed to bring about a radical shift from the now-epidemic confusion and invert it to its enlightened face. Can be done, though - imagine.... all the people, living for todaaay!

 

Even so, it still boggles my mind why a person who advocates the 'short' path have to make such lengthy posts?

 

Have you any ideas, VJ?

 

I don't want to pretend to know the entire intention of V's expressive content. As, he seems like quite the complex person with plenty of information to reference in his writings. We might be misunderstanding him, just as I've found I've been misunderstood plenty of times. "How'd you get that from what I wrote???" Then I realize time and time again, it's my approach to the topic that is not representing my length of patience. As, I am patient. But, I have had a tendency to stuff information down peoples throats from a purely subjective level, thinking that people can just download intentions like movies on a computer. Duh... not. At least not yet.

 

But, I feel that all traditions around the world have applicable things to learn from. Though, I do find that even on a conceptual level, inter-dependent/emptiness is very, very good for loosening attachment to particulars which allows for flexibility both on a physiological level and psychological/spiritual level as well. Which I think, as I've said before, leads to a kind of spiritual eugenics where necessary that allows only the positive, helpful aspects of traditions to remain. Then something good will come about through this global integration of information sharing and all that remains should be that which reflects wisdom of inter-dependence. That would be the most positive interpretation of an inter-subjective war on ignorance I think!?

[3bob]

I love them all. Just lately I have found the beyond teachings very useful personally.

 

I am not sure if that really constitutes much [if any] of a bias.

 

I always have liked your posts, but I am wondering..., I know I used to be on your side in the TTB debates vs the Buddhists, trying to make all enlightenment's mean the same thing, but then one day I suddenly left the 'team' because I realized that they are not. Did this hurt your feelings? Are you reading some malicious Intent or agenda into my words because of that?

 

I do not think the Buddhist enlightenment is the only Enlightenment of Value, at all. I do not necessarily believe that Its higher than the others either. This is not an attempt to brain wash people towards Buddhism, but rather an attempt [poor as it may be] to help people understand the processes traditions use to gain the 'goods' so to speak.

 

There are a number of options I have not voiced as yet as to possible flaws in the Buddhist perspective [and other systems], but I wish to write it in an article format. This is also not to negate Buddhism, because its philosophy works, but simply to promote less absolutism.

 

Dude, I'm not that complex. But I will speak up for a fair playing field and also yield to those of a Taoist bias at what is supposed to be mainly a Taoist site. We could keep loading this place up with all sorts of non-Taoist stuff every day which btw often happens (and at times I've done such myself) but I think and feel that instances of doing so tend to be heavy handed... Anyway, that's my ideal of having a "side" while I'm here and I'll try to stick to it, if I can't then I'm outa here. (in the meantime its nice to share a few feathers with a few birds)

 

Om

[Birch]

Or some kind of event in the world that would call for a restructuring of major world beliefs. My favorite fantasy is the "intelligent aliens visit and share" scenario. I know there are groups of people out there who believe this to be the only solution, and is indeed on the way, and I have to admit, it would all just be so convenient...

 

 

 

I like this and hope I remember it.

So you would like to see a new visiting messiah type happening?

I think my position on that is that it doesn't help much. I'd vote for the "immanent" stuff as well. I think if people realized their own "divinity" they'd take better care of it/themselves.

But it would also have to be shared immanence with the planet. Or maybe those who don't share it could be sent off to the promised land in a space ship and leave the planet's stewards to it. But I don't think I have much of a choice in the matter.

 

OT weren't the buddhists already involved with the Nazis? There's some story there.

[Vmarco]

[Seth Ananda]

 

But it would also have to be shared immanence with the planet. Or maybe those who don't share it could be sent off to the promised land in a space ship

 

Yes! To be served up as an Intergalactic fast food delicacy!

 

Damn it, no we all have to be nice... Argh!

[Aaron]

I'd have to say, that every mystic I've ever met, had a deeper connection with nature than none mystics.

 

In 1992, Albert Gore said while commenting on the environment, “The more deeply I search for the roots of our global environmental crisis, the more I am convinced that it is an outer manifestation of an inner crisis that is, for the lack of a better word, spiritual.”

 

From my observations, very few faith-based individuals have a comprehension as to "spiritual"...the in-breath/out-breath of duality's reality. Real Spirituality, that is spirituality from Spirits point of view, is not a belief system,...belief can actually obscure Spirit.

 

Spirit is quite impersonal,...and although it is embodied in the pulse of duality,...it is quite unconditional in its activity.

 

As far as killing people,...that is no response,...what we need is love. Not Christian love, agape love, chemical love, biological love. Actually, my first post on this forum was on love,...but was unfortunately seen as a threat to the thread.

http://www.thetaobum...-a-higher-love/

 

Love, in my opinion, is the key.

 

In America, where I'm from, we could immediate reverse the current constitutionally illegal Christianized national motto, “In God We Trust,” which replaced “E Pluribus Unum” in 1956 (Christians hate plurality). In its place could be the motto “In Love We Trust.” As Christians think that their god is love, it shouldn’t be too difficult to persuade them that it’s in the best interest of the U.S. and the world to change the national motto to a less offensive, more inclusive wording. Whenever they hear or say “love,” they can think of their god. That’s much more palatable than to have pro-Constitutional Americans, many whom are not Christian, being forced to hear, say, or swear to monotheistic concepts, which Thomas Paine would say was an outrage to common sense. Fortunately, I have never had to be a witness in a courtroom. However, if I were, and if I were asked to swear to their god on their Bible, the presiding judge might declare me in contempt because of my laughter. It would be like swearing to Bobby Henderson’s Flying Spaghetti Monster.

 

V

 

 

Hello VMarco,

 

I'm an American too, so I already know most of this. I think the issue for me is that you're vehement intolerance of Abrahamic religions is actually giving Buddhism a bad name. People will read what you're saying and assume that you speak for Buddhists, when I'm certain you don't. A Buddhist, in my opinion, that is following the eightfold path will not speak ill of a religion, at least not in an open forum. If they do speak ill of religion, it is often only in private conversation between someone who will not take it out of context. You are attacking Christianity and Islam, but I sense you're leaving Judaism out because if you attacked them people might think you were anti-Semitic. To me the question is, why?

 

Do Buddhists aspire to bring about liberation for all sentient creatures, of course, but that can't be achieved through causing more suffering. If you believe it can, then you are allowing your own attachments and hatred, based on your own experiences, to cloud your judgment.

 

I would look back on the statement you made that Abrahamic religions were the cause of cancer. My personal advice is to let your hatred for God go, as it will prove to be a significant hindrance to your own path. I would also remind you that not everything that has been taught is false. In the same way, the wise servant will not throw everything on the dinner table away simply because his master told him to clear the table, but rather he will examine each item on the table to see its worth and make a decision based on that.

 

Now you will come back and make the claim that all religions and ideas are evil, not in those words, but we understand what you're insinuating. I will say that evil lives in the minds of men, that it is an illusion, so to be free of evil one must free themselves of the notion of good and evil, they must not distinguish between one and another, but rather allow compassion to arise and act of its own accord. When you do that, then you will find there is no need to speak ill of anyone, rather you will act to diminish suffering, not simply talk about it.

 

Remember the three great hindrances to enlightenment are selfishness, anger, and greed. If you have hatred in your heart, or you are intolerant to anything, then you have anger in your heart as well, and so long as you allow that anger to grow and fester, you will not be free of that attachment.

 

You can choose to behave as you wish, this is only my kind advice.

 

Aaron

[C T]

An alternative take on 3 Kinds of Spiritual Teachings:

 

1) Cultivate and practice goodness in thought, speech and actions.

 

2) If above cannot be achieved, practice 'Do no harm'.

 

3) If (1) and (2) slips off, try again. Or else, try number 4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

_{4) Keep silent.}

[Vajrahridaya]

IT IS A METAPHOR FOR AN INTERNAL BATTLE.

 

The Kalachakra initiation is meant to plant a seed of a love that is not based on the insanity of fear and hope. It inspirits a fierce compassion that does not arise from the five skandhas. The Kalachakra initiation is a confirmation, an affirmation and a pledge to support the Shambhala war and to participate in the co-creation of peace on earth—a genuine peace that will reveal Shambhala. This is not only a symbolic war, but an inner spiritual battle that will project to the outer. The inner always projects to the outer, and the outer is always a mirror image of the inner. How that manifests is up to us. The initiation is a commitment of true compassion that arises from the vow to free all sentient beings from suffering, not tolerating beliefs and continuing suffering. I cannot envision Shambhala warriors going around killing people,...just killing their beliefs,...people are not their beliefs. Beliefs are like cancer. When someone has cancer, it must be killed for the persons body to continue.

 

Sam Harris said, “Moderates do not want to kill anyone in the name of God, but they want us to keep using the word God as though we knew what we were talking about. They do not want anything too critical said about people who really believe in the god of their fathers because tolerance, perhaps above all else, is sacred. To speak plainly and truthfully about the state of our world—to say, for instance, that the Bible and the Koran both contain mountains of life-destroying gibberish—is antithetical to tolerance as moderates currently conceive it. However, we can no longer afford the luxury of such political correctness. We must finally recognize the price that we are paying to maintain the iconography of our ignorance.” People who believe in theism cannot be compassionate, in the sense of a bodhisattva, no matter how well-intentioned they perceive themselves to be, because the gateway to compassion is through the letting go or emancipation of theism. Compassion is above religious terminus,...the belief in religious memes.

 

V

 

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Ok, so no.. you're not advocating sharp sword wielding bodhisattvas beheading theists. Just, reasoning with them, somewhat forcefully out of their deeply held belief system? I don't know how this could end in anything other than their retaliation through blood lust? I've been hanged by a gang of tongues numerous times on here. Unless you could do mind to mind transmission at the same time on a really powerful level!? I'm not sure if going around debating with Theists is going to end up in anything other than violent retaliation on their part as they'll perceive your compassion as violence.

[Vmarco]

[Vmarco]