Three Kinds of Spiritual Teachings.

[Informer]

I can respond to your game,...Divine, 1. of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God or a god 2. being a deity <the divine Savior> 3. directed to a deity <divine worship> 4.heavenly, godlike

 

Must assume you're a theist who takes offense at anything true or honest that challenges the theist memes,...or one of those appeasers that enables theistic beliefs.

 

As Osho said, “Start knowing what you really know, and stop believing what you really don’t know. Somebody asks you. “Is there a God?” and you say, “Yes, God is.” Remember: Do you really know? If you don’t know, please don’t say that you do. Say, “I don’t know.”. . . False knowing is the enemy of true knowledge. All beliefs are false knowledge.”

 

As far as your statement, "another all knowing nut with claims to having the absolute truth." I'll tell you what theist,...I'll state an absolute truth,...you disprove it,...I'll give you a thousand dollars. What do say? Or is your nasty ad hominem the limit of your character?

 

Prove that "There is no Present in Time" is not an absolute truth. Come on,...theist. Show that you're honorable enough to prove that I'm "another all knowing nut with claims to having the absolute truth." And make yourself some cash doing it. What do have lose?

 

V

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Present

 

The present (or now) is the time that is associated with the events perceived directly and in the first time,[1] not as a recollection (perceived more than once) or a speculation (predicted, hypothesis, uncertain). It is a period of time between the past and the future, and can vary in meaning from being an instant to a day or longer.

 

 

Pay up!

 

Example: The present president of the USA during this time is Obama.

[Vajrahridaya]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Present

 

The present (or now) is the time that is associated with the events perceived directly and in the first time,[1] not as a recollection (perceived more than once) or a speculation (predicted, hypothesis, uncertain). It is a period of time between the past and the future, and can vary in meaning from being an instant to a day or longer.

 

By the time it's actually experienced by your mind of the 5 senses, even through scientific means, it's the past.

 

The present is a concept used to comfort people and make them think there is stability, but there really is not. The present is also empty and without solid reference. It doesn't exist outside of our own mental labeling. When your mind starts getting faster through yogic contemplation and yogic practice or cultivation, the universe starts falling a part as it goes beyond the 5 senses. You might have glimpses of this during practice of the cosmos not even existing.

[Vmarco]

By the time it's actually experienced by your mind of the 5 senses, even through scientific means, it's the past.

 

The present is a concept used to comfort people and make them think there is stability, but there really is not. The present is also empty and without solid reference. It doesn't exist outside of our own mental labeling. When your mind starts getting faster through yogic contemplation and yogic practice or cultivation, the universe starts falling a part as it goes beyond the 5 senses. You might have glimpses of this during practice of the cosmos not even existing.

 

Yes,...for those attached to the skandhas for their identity, the present is a concept and empty. The senses cannot sense the present,...nor can the skandhas observe the instant or Now. The instant, Now, or Present does indeed exist,...Buddha was one proof of that.

 

Unfortunately, the language of the sciential minded,...that is the "thinking, cerebral mind",...is too obsessed with their grey-goo interpretations. There is a higher mind, which has nothing to do with the brain and ego,....their is an Undivided Light that cannot be seen with the senses, although quantum physics has theorized that it is the fulcrum of the electrodynamic spectrum from which all objects become form,....there is a love beyond chemistry, biology, instinct and religion, which cannot be gnown through conditions and beliefs.

 

There is a truth beyong concepts, beliefs, and relative notions,...a truth that does not change. Many deny that there is absolute truth. Many believe that there is no permanent Self, even though Buddha said there was. Most are not honest enough to discuss truth.

 

3bob says, "the "truth" problem for mankind has made countless rounds at this site yet there are those sounding like yourself that continue to come along to make claims to the Truth....there is no absolute proof or disproof that can be pinned down with words, things or ideas for such are not nor will they ever be absolute." Words of a person who is unaware of a single truth, and thus denies that anyone has ever recognized absolute truth, because how could anyone possibly have uncovered more than 3bob.

 

SereneBlue says, "I am not aware of even one Truth." SereneBlue enters the subject from Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Mindfulness, etc.,..and being honestly open to the inquiry.

 

Schwaller de Lubicz said, "you don't know the questions unless you already have the answers."

 

Yes,...the perceived present is a concept that makes people comfortable in maintaining the false. The actual present, which cannot exist in time, is available through unfragmented, undivided consciousness,...which Head-mind obscures with a myriad of veils.

 

The Present exists,...the Present is neither Empty, nor Form. The Present is not an illusion. The Present is beyond all concepts. The Present does not change.

 

I'd love to have a discussion about the Present,...however, all those who have posted in this thread have indicated that all we can discuss is what the Present is not. And not all have the ability to do that,...that is, to recognize what is not.

 

It's amazing how so few can accept Eckhart Tolle's observation that, "we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself"

 

However,...the massive ignorance in the world feeds my compassion, and wish that honesty is not completely smothered. SereneBlue appears to be one open to the fully naked surrender necessary to go beyond the conditions that obscure Who we really are.

 

V

[Vajrahridaya]

There is a truth beyong concepts, beliefs, and relative notions,...a truth that does not change. Many deny that there is absolute truth. Many believe that there is no permanent Self, even though Buddha said there was. Most are not honest enough to discuss truth.

 

 

No he didn't. You misunderstand the Mahaparinirvana Sutra. You use a peak experience as an excuse for a permanent Self. The inner meaning of dependent origination does not lead to the realization of a permanent self existence.

 

The self of the mahaparinirvana sutra is referencing a permanent insight into the nature of mind and things, not a permanent self existence.

[3bob]

Yes,...for those attached to the skandhas for their identity, the present is a concept and empty. The senses cannot sense the present,...nor can the skandhas observe the instant or Now. The instant, Now, or Present does indeed exist,...Buddha was one proof of that.

 

Unfortunately, the language of the sciential minded,...that is the "thinking, cerebral mind",...is too obsessed with their grey-goo interpretations. There is a higher mind, which has nothing to do with the brain and ego,....their is an Undivided Light that cannot be seen with the senses, although quantum physics has theorized that it is the fulcrum of the electrodynamic spectrum from which all objects become form,....there is a love beyond chemistry, biology, instinct and religion, which cannot be gnown through conditions and beliefs.

 

There is a truth beyong concepts, beliefs, and relative notions,...a truth that does not change. Many deny that there is absolute truth. Many believe that there is no permanent Self, even though Buddha said there was. Most are not honest enough to discuss truth.

 

3bob says, "the "truth" problem for mankind has made countless rounds at this site yet there are those sounding like yourself that continue to come along to make claims to the Truth....there is no absolute proof or disproof that can be pinned down with words, things or ideas for such are not nor will they ever be absolute." Words of a person who is unaware of a single truth, and thus denies that anyone has ever recognized absolute truth, because how could anyone possibly have uncovered more than 3bob.

 

SereneBlue says, "I am not aware of even one Truth." SereneBlue enters the subject from Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Mindfulness, etc.,..and being honestly open to the inquiry.

 

Schwaller de Lubicz said, "you don't know the questions unless you already have the answers."

 

Yes,...the perceived present is a concept that makes people comfortable in maintaining the false. The actual present, which cannot exist in time, is available through unfragmented, undivided consciousness,...which Head-mind obscures with a myriad of veils.

 

The Present exists,...the Present is neither Empty, nor Form. The Present is no an illusion. The Present is beyond all concepts. The Present does not change.

 

I'd love to have a discussion about the Present,...however, all those who have posted in this thread have indicated that all we can discuss is what the Present is not. And not all have the ability to do that,...that is, to recognize what is not.

 

It's amazing how so few can accept Eckhart Tolle's observation that, "we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself"

 

However,...the massive ignorance in the world feeds my compassion, and wish that honesty is not completely smothered. SereneBlue appears to be one open to the fully naked surrender necessary to go beyond the conditions that obscure Who we really are.

 

V

 

Hmm, I see, some partial quotes and a twisted quote along with presumptions that include various put downs and it's all toped off at the end with attempted patronizing. How fitting and convenient for and from you. Thank you for the lesson. Btw, in reference to: "The Present is beyond all concepts" well that is along the lines of what I've been alluding to and which you might see if you could be a little more flexible in your interpretations, understanding and usage of of concepts. Holy Cow dude.

 

Om

 

P.S. Revisiting my earlier post below where I see a correlation to your quote of "...beyond all concepts":

 

"Thus there is no absolute proof or disproof that can be pinned down with words, (or worded concepts if you prefer?) things or ideas for such are not nor will they ever be absolute.

[C T]

Holy Cow...

 

Om

Yes, son, i hear your prayers... Now, tell me, how i can be of help? :lol:

 

(Enlightenment is nothing.... Delusion is the greatest wonder! - words of Jed McKenna.)

I think we both agree this much?

[Informer]

By the time it's actually experienced by your mind of the 5 senses, even through scientific means, it's the past.

 

The present is a concept used to comfort people and make them think there is stability, but there really is not. The present is also empty and without solid reference. It doesn't exist outside of our own mental labeling. When your mind starts getting faster through yogic contemplation and yogic practice or cultivation, the universe starts falling a part as it goes beyond the 5 senses. You might have glimpses of this during practice of the cosmos not even existing.

 

But the definition is never set in stone. Even if you try it will be subject to subjective interpretation.

[Vajrahridaya]

But the definition is never set in stone. Even if you try it will be subject to subjective interpretation.

 

You mean the present? Well, that's the point I think, there is never a consensual definition as far as personal experience of the now goes. It's all relative.

 

Some people are just faster and experience the present at a faster rate than others. Like boxers for instance train their minds to read their opponent so they know what's coming before it comes. It's a focus that talented athletes have that allows them to activate their bodies faster and detect information coming at them through the senses and respond to that information faster. Yogi's much like Martial arts masters talk about seeing someone moving in slow motion, but that person feels that they are being in the now.

 

It's the same with math geniuses, they're able to experience awareness of the numbers in their mind faster, so due to a particular focus, they're mind works more instantaneously and the thoughts that arise in their mind are more easily detected and they respond faster to these thought formations as they are catching them from within, faster. It's the same for contemplatives, we experience the power of thought on a faster inward level than social thinkers as we are operating at a higher, faster frequency of mind. That doesn't mean that it will translate into the body just as fast, that's a different focus.

 

Anyway... understand the point?

[3bob]

Yes, son, i hear your prayers... Now, tell me, how i can be of help? :lol:

 

(Enlightenment is nothing.... Delusion is the greatest wonder! - words of Jed McKenna.)

I think we both agree this much?

 

or, enlightenment is like an organic potato, while delusion causes trips to the dentist?

[3bob]

But the definition is never set in stone. Even if you try it will be subject to subjective interpretation.

 

That is correct Informer but don't let VJ in on it since he is completely enthralled with his interpretations, concepts and experiential command of the Truth, thus he stands tricked out with all the trimmings, (which is his right in the privacy of his own home) - although or so it seems we can expect his continued use of any and all means to keep stuffing us turkeys in public. (sorry folks -disregard what could sound like lumping everyone into dumplings) Heck, even Tom who trys to be reasonable can only take so much stuffing before exploding.

[Vmarco]

[3bob]

I must have missed that,..it is something we can enter a meaningful conversation about,...which of course, is not about the words, but what they point to.

 

There was a fellow, Theodore Chemodurow, an MD and psychotherapist, who one of the last of a group researching Sekheim Amun, the spiraling force that sustains life, which is somewhat synonymous with prana,...he loved, before the internet age, to converse back to back, with words only,...so that non-verbal gestures would not interfer.

 

“Truth lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it.” Goethe (gur ta)

 

V

 

Ok, and I admit going to far earlier. (with several combative insults which I apologize to you)

 

Anyway, I've been at both extremes of a silent type of communication, one end of it crushes and deadens into silence while the other end releases to freedom and enlivement beyond the needs of any further words that would encumber it...

[Vmarco]

Anyway, I've been at both extremes of a silent type of communication, one end of it crushes and deadens into silence while the other end releases to freedom and enlivement beyond the needs of any further words that would encumber it...

 

This reminds me of an EJ Gold quote mentioned in the Charisma and Women thread.

 

http://www.thetaobum...charisma-women/

 

Real emotion has no need to communicate with words. Although that is implying two or more people, it's also valid with self alone.

 

V