Is the only reason not to commit suicide - Fear-based, shame-based, or guilt-based?

[gendao]

Well you're right - fear, shame & guilt are not solutions for self-hate.

 

But neither is escapism through drugs, avoiding others who accurately mirror your own self-hate or suicide.

 

You simply cannot escape from yourself, sorry buddy!

 

So, the only real antidote for self-hate is...self-love.

 

Your answer is that simple, and that difficult, my friend.

 

I'm sure you can do it though...although you might need some help at first.

 

But if you've already figured out this much, then don't stop now!

 

Much love to you, brother!

Edited July 29, 2011 by vortex

[Clarity]

Here's a different perspective. If you really wanted to commit suicide, you would have done it already. You would not be here asking for help.

 

One reason people commit suicide is they don't see any way out. Awareness is key.

 

There are methods to resolve energetic weaknesses that don't include psychotherapy or drugs.

 

For example, imagine how you would feel if you had been trying to resolve killing, hating, and traumatizing others for 1500 years. That kind of karmic experience would also explain why you feel that people hate you so much. Repeating incarnation after incarnation with no resolution to that problem would be very painful for anyone.

 

I know you say that you are fine and happy as a clam when you are on your own, but energetically speaking this just does not hold up as true.

 

We would also want to just remove all the sadness coming from your spiritual experiences. Thousands of years of unresolved sadness would be painful for anyone.

 

As human beings, we are body, mind and spirit. So we just energetically strengthen that triad for you now.

 

The truth is the only thing that will really set you free.

[goldisheavy]

Guilt for your family, fear of coming back and reliving the life over. Shame of what others will say. Those are the main reasons.

 

All I can say is I've hit an extremely low mood(As well as I kind of got an insight...all suicide prevention is based on fear, shame or guilt). And I've been thinking about it. I honestly don't see suicide prevention based on anything other than fear, shame, and guilt control methods.

 

All the reasons are based on fear, shame or guilt. Give me one example that is not.

 

Why should i live for my family's happiness when being alive is putting me through hell? Wjy is my family's happiness based on me being alive in the first place?

 

I just can't think of any actual reason to go on anymore. I want to quit playing this character. Maybe, it's just this sad mood I'm in.

 

I'm going to give it plenty of time to think about this before doing anything. I just want to know one genuine reason that is not based on fear, shame or guilt to keep going on as a sad drone. What is the honor in that? And what do you really get from honor? Nothing.

 

Think it through before you give an answer. Make sure that it is not based on fear, shame, or guilt.

 

Not everyone is strong enough to overcome their obstacles. Or drag through the mud with their obstacles.

 

I find that kind of funny since I used to be anti-suicide. I understand their perspective now.

 

You're right. Most people live their lives the way they do out of fear, guilt and shame. If these three emotions didn't exist, the world would be a hugely, hugely different place. So it's no surprise when you hit a tough point in your life, all everyone has to give is fear, guilt and shame for the most part. This is because these other people live lives of fear guilt and shame themselves. They share what they got. How else can it be? You can't share something you don't have.

 

Imagine this, a great many people feel like you. You are not alone. But people pretend and keep up appearances like crazy. They try to blend in. They know if they look unhappy at work, their chances to get fired go up. Etc... To be honest is to be fearless. But people are fearful creatures and thus they are hardly ever honest and being full of shit is the natural human condition, because of fear. Someone who has nothing to fear has no reason to lie.

 

As for the suicide, I recommend the following approach.

 

You can kill yourself in your mind. Imagine you are already dead. You've been reborn. As a dead man living you now have no fear. You can even legally change your name to signify this momentous occasion if you want. It's up to you. You're a new being now. You have nothing to worry about and nothing to fear. All your anxieties have been cleared away. All your fears have been cleared away. You can work with other people, but you don't have to take shit from them anymore. If someone annoys you, just respond in an honest manner and let the chips fall where they may. You may be surprised, but you may be OK living that way. Why? Because first of all, people secretly love an honest person. Why? Because people wish they could be fearless and honest themselves, so when they see someone else being fearless and honest, it gives them hope and courage. People want to be around a fearless and honest person. Of course not everyone loves a fearless and honest person, but enough people do so that the outcome of an honest and fearless life is not one of obvious and a clear doom.

 

You should dare life to throw whatever it has at you because you are bigger than life. You are a dead man living.

 

As for a positive reason to live, I find these to be positive:

 

• 
   
  
• Reach perfection in your craft. If you're a plumber, become the best plumber you can be, if you're an electrician, become the master of your art and improve the state of the art, etc.
  
• Reach people and help them think.
  
• Train your mind and body (all the training will be carried over into your next life, so nothing is wasted).
  
• Learn to heal yourself (healing abilities carry over).
  
• Learn to live without fear.
  
• Learn to live out of love of life, not life as you or people imagine it, but love of life as it is and can be at any and all times.
   
  

 

Take frequent walks in nature and contemplate as well as enjoy.

 

Meditate to keep calm.

 

This is your opportunity to jump to a higher level of life.

Edited July 29, 2011 by goldisheavy

[fiveelementtao]

As I understand it, from your post, you are considering suicide to reduce or eliminate your pain. Yes? So, the only real question is, Will committing suicide reduce your pain or not?..

 

The most logical and practical argument for not killing oneself for me comes from the school of thought that says that we all made the choice to incarnate as humans before we were born and we chose our life circumstances in order to learn and grow.

 

According to this school of thought, if we commit suicide, then we are sabotaging the lessons that we chose to learn and therefore, we will have to come back and learn the same lessons again only in harsher conditions.

 

If this is true, then suicide will not reduce our pain but instead increase it next time around.

 

So, I say, be selfish and think it through logically, "Am I absolutely sure that suicide will reduce my pain?" If you cannot say "Yes" to that question, then it seems the logical thing to do would be to seek to learn the lessons and grow from them otherwise, you may be making it much harder for yourself next time around.

 

There are of course many other reasons not to commit suicide, but in your current state of mind, you might find them to be cheesy or guilt motivated.

 

And even if we do experience pain in life, there are people who seem genuinely happy. So, I think a better use of energy is to ask why others are happy and what do they do differently than me?

[GreytoWhite]

I've considered suicide very carefully. I had a heart attack three years ago and a stroke a little over two years ago. My life has been absolutely bat shit since I was about 3. At 25 I've gone through more than most will before they reach 70. That said, life is still way too damned nice to quit now. The lows have been really low and the highs have been incredible. I've yet to find a better ride so I'm staying on this one until it's over.

[Aaron]

Hello Infinity,

 

I'm very disheartened to see many people take such a subject so lightly, as if it was a subject like economics, that can be debated and discussed without real concern for it's implications. Suicide is not a joke, nor should it be treated as such. As someone who has gone through a great deal of pain in their life I can attest to that fact. I was suicidal on a few occasions in my life, but in each incident something stopped me. I am very grateful for that.

 

My personal view is that the reason not to commit suicide, whatever it is, is a good reason. Suicide is not an answer, in fact it's the farthest thing from an answer. For me, as sentimental as it sounds, the real reason not to commit suicide is Love. Whether it's those that you love or simply understanding that you have a vast capacity for love.

 

If you are suicidal, then I urge you to talk to someone you trust. Whatever you are feeling will pass, I can promise you that. Don't believe that what's happening now will be forever, because it wont. Ignore any advice that you have gotten to meditate or start some mystical practice, because if you are suicidal those things could make your feelings worse.

 

Seek help. Understand what you love and forgive yourself for whatever makes you feel this need to cause yourself harm. If you do these things, then you will find that you can begin to live again. If you want to talk, feel free to PM me. I have a lot experience with suicide and I'd be willing to listen to whatever you have to say.

 

If not one has said it today, I love you and hope things get better for you.

 

Aaron

[InfinityTruth]

For example, imagine how you would feel if you had been trying to resolve killing, hating, and traumatizing others for 1500 years. That kind of karmic experience would also explain why you feel that people hate you so much. Repeating incarnation after incarnation with no resolution to that problem would be very painful for anyone.

 

 

I don't think that's the case here. I know you might just be using an example, but I'm not trying to save anyone. I've had past lives that don't indicate that either. I once wrote a blog post called, 'To save the world save yourself and the world will be saved.'

 

[Otis]

I don't. Do we have to?

Personally, I don't want to "find out". I just want to enjoy the exploring of the question.

[InfinityTruth]

Hello Infinity,

 

I'm very disheartened to see many people take such a subject so lightly, as if it was a subject like economics, that can be debated and discussed without real concern for it's implications. Suicide is not a joke, nor should it be treated as such. As someone who has gone through a great deal of pain in their life I can attest to that fact. I was suicidal on a few occasions in my life, but in each incident something stopped me. I am very grateful for that.

 

My personal view is that the reason not to commit suicide, whatever it is, is a good reason. Suicide is not an answer, in fact it's the farthest thing from an answer. For me, as sentimental as it sounds, the real reason not to commit suicide is Love. Whether it's those that you love or simply understanding that you have a vast capacity for love.

 

If you are suicidal, then I urge you to talk to someone you trust. Whatever you are feeling will pass, I can promise you that. Don't believe that what's happening now will be forever, because it wont. Ignore any advice that you have gotten to meditate or start some mystical practice, because if you are suicidal those things could make your feelings worse.

 

Seek help. Understand what you love and forgive yourself for whatever makes you feel this need to cause yourself harm. If you do these things, then you will find that you can begin to live again. If you want to talk, feel free to PM me. I have a lot experience with suicide and I'd be willing to listen to whatever you have to say.

 

If not one has said it today, I love you and hope things get better for you.

 

Aaron

 

I'm unstable at this point. Not really suicidal but if these circumstances change too much for the worse I don't know if I will be able to handle them. Change is coming and I don't know if it will be for the best.

 

That night, I got to thinking and I realized that the only reason I'm living is out of fear, shame and guilt. I would've killed myself a long time ago otherwise. That's seems to be the reason that many people push on. But in exchange for their livelyhood because they have never found an actual reason to be alive.

 

Fear that I will come back and relive this life. Shame that people will laugh at my death. And guilt at what I will put my family through.

 

If I'm going to live I want to have an actual reason to live. A reason for suffering. Not just for the sake of suffering.

Edited July 30, 2011 by InfinityTruth

[Aetherous]

I don't know if I will be able to handle them

 

Yeah you can. As human beings, we are incredibly resilient. There is so much further we can go than we think. If you are faced with such a challenge, you will of course have the hardest time of your life, but you will soon find yourself on the other side of it as a survivor, wondering and grateful about how you made it through. The fact is...that is what we do. We eat challenges for breakfast. We make challenges our bitch! So yep, you got it...no matter what it is.

[Pu-erh]

Speaking on salvia, it is dangerous (if you don't have someone watching you while you take it...otherwise it's completely not dangerous), yet:

 

 

 

At least personally, I found that it renewed my appreciation for life as it is. I stopped taking drugs, including salvia itself, and started valuing sobriety. Plus it was a temporary escape, which is sometimes needed in today's workaholic society. I can say that despite it being a rough and sometimes scary trip, it was an overall healing experience for me to take the plant.

 

Not to put down your education, but just because you're a psych student and you've done these drugs, doesn't mean that you are qualified to speak on them. Do you know what results a depressed person will have from salvia, versus a non-depressed? No, of course not. There haven't been any studies on that. Have you done any studies on the drug, yourself? Nope.

 

The drug itself is not harmful in any way...the ONLY occasion it may prove to be dangerous is if the person taking it ends up hurting themselves while on the drug. If there is a sitter (person watching), then there is no danger.

 

The other drugs listed are known to be dangerous, though...

 

This isn't strictly relevant to the OP, but FWIW:

 

With salvia, specifically, I didn't mean it was physically dangerous. You're right; if you have someone watching you while you take it there is little to no physical danger. I meant that it, and the other drugs mentioned, could be psychologically dangerous for a severely depressed person to take. A lot of these drugs will amplify whatever experience you are currently having. I know this from personal experience. You know, if you are in a bad place when you take something, you are much more likely to have a bad trip. And that bad trip can have echoes throughout life long after the trip is over. Even one bad trip can mess you up for years. Heads don't like to admit that's true, but it is.

 

Not only that, but all of these drugs will alter your brain chemistry, especially levels of serotonin and so on, which are already volatile in a depressed person. I am not trying to give advice here based on medical studies, of which, as you mentioned, there probably aren't any that actually compare effects of psychedelic drugs in depressed versus non-depressed groups. But I have been depressed and not depressed, taken all kinds of drugs in both states, and been around, even supervised other people in various states (sets, settings, whatever) using these drugs as well and I have had the opportunity to observe the results. I have had all kinds of great, spiritual experiences on mushrooms and I've also had to talk a guy down from cutting himself open with a knife on mushrooms. In other words, I am qualified to speak on this subject, not based on studies (as if that were the only possible qualification?) but based on my own personal experience.

 

Anyway, to say there is no danger if you have a sitter is just wrong, for any of these drugs. The *only* one I might recommend for a depressed person is ayahuasca, and then only in a traditional ceremony with a *real* initiated shaman (not just some idiot who calls himself a shaman). I have done that and I still had a bad trip, fortunately the shaman I sat with had the skills to bring me down. Remember, with ayahuasca (even with mushrooms) you are dealing with *spirits* and spirits can F you up.

 

In conclusion, psychedelic drugs are extremely powerful. They affect body, mind (brain chemistry, hormones) and spirit in sometimes violent ways. I think people treat them way too casually.

[Aetherous]

Pu-erh,

 

I completely disagree with you regarding salvia. Do some real research before making assumptions and lumping it into the same group as other hallucinogens, please. I consider it to be not dangerous at all. But yes, this is off topic, so this is enough discussion on it...

[paulno]

I read people say ,"if you are really suicidal you would've done it by now." That is a dangerous myth that's about as far from the truth as imaginable.

 

Some people contemplate suicide for weeks, months, or even years. Looking for an answer but being ignored by friends and family that question their motives and write them off as overly dramatic. I think love is key here. Simple answer, I know. But, if you're in a void and feel alone (which if understanding isn't involved can be achieved in a room packed full of people) love can give you motive for life and help get you through another grueling day.

[goldisheavy]

If I'm going to live I want to have an actual reason to live. A reason for suffering. Not just for the sake of suffering.

 

I agree with you 100%. It's been very similar with me too. As I have surmounted fear, anxiety, shame and guilt I realized that 90% of my drive to live was gone. But for me, my life was never completely driven by negative emotions. I've done many things purely for the joy of it. For example, I learned how to program computers on my own, just purely having fun watching something come of my labors, as if by magic. I really enjoyed that. I also loved lucid dreaming, contemplating, meditating and engaging in my spiritual path. I've met some pretty cool people as well. While I consider the world to be filled with mostly idiots, I was lucky to meed some rare non-idiots. So for me life was never a complete drudge or a slog. There was joy and magic in my life too.

 

But once 90% of my drive was gone, I definitely found myself sort of floating instead of rushing forward like a man on fire. But from my point of view, there is no point in killing myself now. I will die in due time. What's the hurry? I am not in any hurry, that's for sure. I don't fear adverse conditions. Approval of other people hardly matters to me. There is really no reason for me to run from this life into the next. Death will come on its own and I fear nothing this life can throw at me. I don't fear life. So? I am certainly patient. I can wait 3 long aeons if necessary. I don't have some kind of heavenly appointment I need to rush for.

 

I view future lives as dreams. I've had countless dreams and I know one thing. Generally all my dreams are good. Some are amazing and much superior to my day to day life. Some are slightly more boring and stupider than my day to day life. There are many mundane dreams which are identical to what I experience day to day. My dreams become magical and enchanted if I intend them to be, but then, the same thing works for day to day life (although it is much much impressive and scarier in day to day life than in a dream). In other words, my life is as enchanted as I can take it and as I want it.

 

I don't know if you can believe me, but from my point of view, everything I say about me is true for you too. You have the same abilities.

 

The purpose of life is not something that can be given to you. Even if someone tells you what your purpose is, you can always reject it or accept it. So you are still the final authority on your life's purpose. You can make your life's purpose arbitrarily amazing and meaningful. All you have to do is think of the best thing you can, kneel down and make a vow to dedicate yourself to that purpose in your own mind. I have such purpose for myself. I've dedicated myself to the utmost wisdom and to the perfection of knowledge. I have some other, more minor vows. Nobody forced these on me. I took them upon myself of my own choice. You can do similarly.

 

Don't sell yourself short. You're not a mere consumer of life. Life is not like a TV show. If you don't like a TV show, you flip the channel. In this life you are a movie director. If you don't like the show, you write a new script, hire new actors, and enact a new show. You're not just a show watcher (this is a consumerist approach to life, where life is thought to be thrown at you by the powers that be and your job is to merely passively consume it as is). You're a director. You have the power to direct.

[Birch]

Nice posts GIH. I like it when what you're saying can help people rather than just proving a point.

[Aaron]

I'm unstable at this point. Not really suicidal but if these circumstances change too much for the worse I don't know if I will be able to handle them. Change is coming and I don't know if it will be for the best.

 

That night, I got to thinking and I realized that the only reason I'm living is out of fear, shame and guilt. I would've killed myself a long time ago otherwise. That's seems to be the reason that many people push on. But in exchange for their livelyhood because they have never found an actual reason to be alive.

 

Fear that I will come back and relive this life. Shame that people will laugh at my death. And guilt at what I will put my family through.

 

If I'm going to live I want to have an actual reason to live. A reason for suffering. Not just for the sake of suffering.

 

Hello InfinityTruth,

 

I'm very sorry to hear that you're going through a rough time. I've been there and it's not a good place to be. If I've learned anything it's that these things come and go, but they do not and should not define your reason for living or dying, but rather they should be seen as simply one moment in time.

 

A couple months back I thought I was going to be on the streets and I wondered why was this crap happening to me? Was there a reason to it all and you know what I found out, there was and wasn't. Some of it was my fault, like I should've looked for a job, but some of it wasn't.

 

I was abused as a child and that had a profound effect on who I was. I thought for a long time that because I had suffered, that somehow I deserved to suffer or I caused my suffering, but now I know that neither is true. I know that life can be hard, but really no one deserves to suffer, but in the same way no one deserves the right to make us suffer.

 

If someone is causing you pain, then I suggest you distance yourself from that person. You deserve love and kindness in your life, regardless of who you are or what you do. That is the truth. If you cannot see it now, then accept that I can see it. I really do wish I could take your pain away, but no one can do that, however you can move past it, let it go, and begin to live a life that you enjoy living, all it takes is making the choice and taking the steps to do it.

 

If you are suffering then I really would like it if you talked to someone. Nearly every country, state, and region has a suicide prevention hotline. The only thing I ask is if it comes down to the point that you think you will do something, that you either reach out to me, I'll send you my phone number if you like, or you call a hotline. You are worth more than this and I hope that you can see that.

 

My deepest love and sympathy. My thoughts are with you.

 

Aaron

[Otis]

Nice posts GIH. I like it when what you're saying can help people rather than just proving a point.

Agreed. Good stuff, GIH!

[Lucky7Strikes]

I agree with you 100%. It's been very similar with me too. As I have surmounted fear, anxiety, shame and guilt I realized that 90% of my drive to live was gone. But for me, my life was never completely driven by negative emotions. I've done many things purely for the joy of it. For example, I learned how to program computers on my own, just purely having fun watching something come of my labors, as if by magic. I really enjoyed that. I also loved lucid dreaming, contemplating, meditating and engaging in my spiritual path. I've met some pretty cool people as well. While I consider the world to be filled with mostly idiots, I was lucky to meed some rare non-idiots. So for me life was never a complete drudge or a slog. There was joy and magic in my life too.

 

But once 90% of my drive was gone, I definitely found myself sort of floating instead of rushing forward like a man on fire. But from my point of view, there is no point in killing myself now. I will die in due time. What's the hurry? I am not in any hurry, that's for sure. I don't fear adverse conditions. Approval of other people hardly matters to me. There is really no reason for me to run from this life into the next. Death will come on its own and I fear nothing this life can throw at me. I don't fear life. So? I am certainly patient. I can wait 3 long aeons if necessary. I don't have some kind of heavenly appointment I need to rush for.

This also gets at spiritual practitioners eager for enlightenment, who immediately shun their desires in fear and start running towards another pole.

 

Great post. .

Edited July 31, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[InfinityTruth]

I agree with you 100%. It's been very similar with me too. As I have surmounted fear, anxiety, shame and guilt I realized that 90% of my drive to live was gone. But for me, my life was never completely driven by negative emotions. I've done many things purely for the joy of it. For example, I learned how to program computers on my own, just purely having fun watching something come of my labors, as if by magic. I really enjoyed that. I also loved lucid dreaming, contemplating, meditating and engaging in my spiritual path. I've met some pretty cool people as well. While I consider the world to be filled with mostly idiots, I was lucky to meed some rare non-idiots. So for me life was never a complete drudge or a slog. There was joy and magic in my life too.

 

But once 90% of my drive was gone, I definitely found myself sort of floating instead of rushing forward like a man on fire. But from my point of view, there is no point in killing myself now. I will die in due time. What's the hurry? I am not in any hurry, that's for sure. I don't fear adverse conditions. Approval of other people hardly matters to me. There is really no reason for me to run from this life into the next. Death will come on its own and I fear nothing this life can throw at me. I don't fear life. So? I am certainly patient. I can wait 3 long aeons if necessary. I don't have some kind of heavenly appointment I need to rush for.

 

I view future lives as dreams. I've had countless dreams and I know one thing. Generally all my dreams are good. Some are amazing and much superior to my day to day life. Some are slightly more boring and stupider than my day to day life. There are many mundane dreams which are identical to what I experience day to day. My dreams become magical and enchanted if I intend them to be, but then, the same thing works for day to day life (although it is much much impressive and scarier in day to day life than in a dream). In other words, my life is as enchanted as I can take it and as I want it.

 

I don't know if you can believe me, but from my point of view, everything I say about me is true for you too. You have the same abilities.

 

The purpose of life is not something that can be given to you. Even if someone tells you what your purpose is, you can always reject it or accept it. So you are still the final authority on your life's purpose. You can make your life's purpose arbitrarily amazing and meaningful. All you have to do is think of the best thing you can, kneel down and make a vow to dedicate yourself to that purpose in your own mind. I have such purpose for myself. I've dedicated myself to the utmost wisdom and to the perfection of knowledge. I have some other, more minor vows. Nobody forced these on me. I took them upon myself of my own choice. You can do similarly.

 

Don't sell yourself short. You're not a mere consumer of life. Life is not like a TV show. If you don't like a TV show, you flip the channel. In this life you are a movie director. If you don't like the show, you write a new script, hire new actors, and enact a new show. You're not just a show watcher (this is a consumerist approach to life, where life is thought to be thrown at you by the powers that be and your job is to merely passively consume it as is). You're a director. You have the power to direct.

 

Very good post. I felt a lot of peace while reading it. Dying in due time and such. Nothing to fear because anything life can throw at you can and will be handled. Whether you have to persevere it, or you can solve it.

 

Good post.

Edited July 31, 2011 by InfinityTruth

[goldisheavy]

Very good post. I felt a lot of peace while reading it. Dying in due time and such. Nothing to fear because anything life can throw at you can and will be handled. Whether you have to persevere it, or you can solve it.

 

Good post.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed it InfinityTruth. Whatever I know is ultimately your birthright, because from your point of view I am a manifestation of your own mind. This is why I don't intend to keep any secrets from you. All my power is your power and I have a lot of power.

 

Peace.

[Gerard]

Guilt for your family, fear of coming back and reliving the life over. Shame of what others will say. Those are the main reasons.

 

Unless suicide is committed as a direct result of achieving total liberation and with the sole purpose of helping other fellow humans (for example:

 

 

 

 

)...you will carry the seed of your karma (suicide and other samskaras) to your next incarnation. So, my friend, there is no easy way out of Samsara, trust me. The hard way (non-stop mindful cultivation) is the only one that is fruitful.