[TTC Study] Chapter 56 of the Tao Teh Ching

[Marblehead]

Chapter 56

 

John Wu

 

He who knows does not speak.

He who speaks does not know.

Block all the passages!

Shut all the doors!

Blunt all edges!

Untie all tangles!

Harmonize all lights!

Unite the world into one whole!

This is called the Mystical Whole,

Which you cannot court after nor shun,

Benefit nor harm, honor nor humble.

Therefore, it is the Highest of the world.

 

 

English/Feng

 

Those who know do not talk.

Those who talk do not know.

Keep your mouth closed.

Guard your senses.

Temper your sharpness.

Simplify your problems.

Mask your brightness.

Be at one with the dust of the Earth.

This is primal union.

He who has achieved this state

Is unconcerned with friends and enemies,

With good and harm, with honor and disgrace.

This therefore is the highest state of man.

 

 

Robert Henricks

 

Those who know don't talk about it; those who talk don't know it.

He blocks up his holes,

Closes his doors,

Softens the glare,

Settles the dust,

Files down the sharp edges,

And unties the tangles.

This is called Profound Union.

Therefore, there is no way to get intimate with him,

But there is also no way to shun him.

There is no way to benefit him,

But there is also no way to harm him.

There is no way to ennoble him,

But there is also no way to debase him.

For this very reason he's the noblest thing in the world.

 

 

Questions? Comments?

[Aaron]

Wow... it's funny that this chapter came along at this time. This is perhaps the chapter I quote more than any other, simply because I tend to throw it out there when someone starts talking about the "truth". The only thing is that I was doing the same thing and it took some time for me to realize it.

 

What I did realize, and what I understand this chapter to mean now, is that the truth, the real truth can be talked about until you're blue in the face, but unless someone has actually experienced it, then it will be meaningless, because it is unfathomable to those who haven't experienced it. That's why it's so important to act, rather than teach, because it is through our actions that we can show the world the truth. People can call you a liar, but they can never deny your actions.

 

I hope life is treating you well,

 

Aaron

[Marblehead]

Wow... it's funny that this chapter came along at this time. This is perhaps the chapter I quote more than any other, simply because I tend to throw it out there when someone starts talking about the "truth". The only thing is that I was doing the same thing and it took some time for me to realize it.

 

What I did realize, and what I understand this chapter to mean now, is that the truth, the real truth can be talked about until you're blue in the face, but unless someone has actually experienced it, then it will be meaningless, because it is unfathomable to those who haven't experienced it. That's why it's so important to act, rather than teach, because it is through our actions that we can show the world the truth. People can call you a liar, but they can never deny your actions.

 

I hope life is treating you well,

 

Aaron

 

Hi Aaron,

 

Life is great on this little part of the planet.

 

Excellent what you have said.

 

I have a warning though.

 

We should be careful of how we interpret those experiences we have in life.

 

The reason I say this is because we often have things in our unconscious mind that cause us to gain a 'wrong' understanding of the experiences we have had.

 

After having such an experience we should question and test what it is we believe we have experienced to make sure it is "our" experience of the "truth" rather than an interpretation of what is floating around in our unconcsious that was put there from something we read or that someone else has told us.

 

But again, well said what you posted.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Marblehead

[on the path]

Hi folks,

 

I'm not going to post Flowing Hands version on here I'll let someone else do that. I'm beginning to feel like an ageing hippy going on about the benefits of weed!!!!

 

I feel like I'm spending far too much time on this computer and not on other important maters (mostly family harmony), so I won't be posting very often now, but I thought I would let you know about some of my own background. I have been the student of a Holyman myself: Yoon Kin Tong. Master Tong was the student of Huang Lo Xian Shi (Old Yellow Immortal Master). Huang Lo Xian Shi taught Master Tong many martial and spiritual arts. These arts I have taught to others who have then displayed them at national championships and won medals. I have been nationally awarded for my contribution to the world of Chinese martial arts through my writing in martial art magazines. With such a background the Flowing Hands book was a God send in clearly giving the DDJ greater insight. I have traveled the world doing research on 'shamanism' and I have concluded that there are so many different forms etc. and its certainly not BS. Flowing Hands transmission of the DDJ I know has been adopted as the true words of Lao Tzu in some Temples in Malaysia. I have really enjoyed my banter with you all and hope you can make use of the Flowing Hands version on this site to further enlightenment and break down the walls of prejudice and misunderstanding.

[Marblehead]

Hi folks,

 

I'm not going to post Flowing Hands version on here I'll let someone else do that. I'm beginning to feel like an ageing hippy going on about the benefits of weed!!!!

 

Well, I have enjoyed your time here and I would welcome your input any time you have anything you would like to share with us.

 

Your input has been of value and I feel you have much more you could share with us. Doesn't matter if I agree with everything you say or that you agree with everything I say. But something we each might say may help someone else along their path.

 

Be well and take care. (And I still expect to see you post now and again. Hehehe)

[ChiDragon]

Chapter 56

1. One who is wise will not speak.

2. One who will speak is not wise.

3. By not displaying one's sharpness,

4. Clearing one's vexation,

5. Minify one's arrogance,

6. Blending with the world,

7. It was said to be the subtlety of harmony.

8. Therefore,

9. There is no intimacy,

10. There is no separation,

11. There is no benefit,

12. There is no detriment,

13. There is no nobility,

14. There is no poverty,

15. Then, it's the most precious in the world.

 

第五十六章

1.知者不言。

2.言者不知。

3. 挫其銳，

4. 解其紛，

5. 和其光，

6.同其塵，

7.是謂玄同。

8.故,

9. 不可得而親。

10.不可得而疏。

11.不可得而利。

12.不可得而害。

13.不可得而貴。

14.不可得而賤。

15.故為天下貴。

[dawei]

Hi folks,

 

I'm not going to post Flowing Hands version on here I'll let someone else do that. I'm beginning to feel like an ageing hippy going on about the benefits of weed!!!!

 

I feel like I'm spending far too much time on this computer and not on other important maters (mostly family harmony), so I won't be posting very often now, but I thought I would let you know about some of my own background. I have been the student of a Holyman myself: Yoon Kin Tong. Master Tong was the student of Huang Lo Xian Shi (Old Yellow Immortal Master). Huang Lo Xian Shi taught Master Tong many martial and spiritual arts. These arts I have taught to others who have then displayed them at national championships and won medals. I have been nationally awarded for my contribution to the world of Chinese martial arts through my writing in martial art magazines. With such a background the Flowing Hands book was a God send in clearly giving the DDJ greater insight. I have traveled the world doing research on 'shamanism' and I have concluded that there are so many different forms etc. and its certainly not BS. Flowing Hands transmission of the DDJ I know has been adopted as the true words of Lao Tzu in some Temples in Malaysia. I have really enjoyed my banter with you all and hope you can make use of the Flowing Hands version on this site to further enlightenment and break down the walls of prejudice and misunderstanding.

Well, I personally hope you continue to contribute; had you not so far, we never would of known of this Flow Hands work. I have come to very much appreciate his work. Your general thread about him may not have been received so well but that doesn't matter. Your input in this subforum has been very nice to have. Shamanism is not well understood but I think it's an essential perspective.

[Marblehead]

Chapter 56

 

Okay. I actually like the personal nature of the lines in the first half but then you switched to the general nature in the second half.

 

Other translators do that as well. Perhaps it is necessary in the translation from original Chinese to modern English. I don't know.

 

The first line suggests that we are speaking of a person, the Sage.

 

Line two is to a non-Sage, then line three is back to the Sage. I would think that the remaining lines should be speaking to the Sage's character traits.

[Apech]

Those who know don't talk about it; those who talk don't know it.

He blocks up his holes,

Closes his doors,

Softens the glare,

Settles the dust,

Files down the sharp edges,

And unties the tangles.

This is called Profound Union.

 

(first part of henricks)

 

Just some off the top of my head thoughts as I read this.

 

1 ) I wish more people on TTBs would read the first two lines

 

2 ) To me it reads like this. Most of us are caught up in the world where there is pressure to be right. Or rather to talk about how right you are. If you don't people think you are weak and stupid. They think this is being assertive but its actually just being noisy. As in "empty vessels make most sound". The sage goes beyond this ... he listens to people and knows that they don't know anything ... so he keeps his own counsel ... because they talk so much that they will never listen anyway. Add to this that the truth is ultimately inexpressible.

 

3 ) The sage lessens the disharmony, the jangly edges, the jumbled up-ness which also arise because of the speed of the world. Not to say being quick is wrong but being caught up in the knock knock of daily life is not what the sage does. He's interested in being integrated, quiet and wise ... the profound union within and with the way.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

PS. Its so peaceful here in the TTC sub-forum ... maybe there's something to this Taoism lark.

[Marblehead]

Just some off the top of my head thoughts as I read this.

 

1 ) I wish more people on TTBs would read the first two lines

 

2 ) To me it reads like this. Most of us are caught up in the world where there is pressure to be right. Or rather to talk about how right you are. If you don't people think you are weak and stupid. They think this is being assertive but its actually just being noisy. As in "empty vessels make most sound". The sage goes beyond this ... he listens to people and knows that they don't know anything ... so he keeps his own counsel ... because they talk so much that they will never listen anyway. Add to this that the truth is ultimately inexpressible.

 

3 ) The sage lessens the disharmony, the jangly edges, the jumbled up-ness which also arise because of the speed of the world. Not to say being quick is wrong but being caught up in the knock knock of daily life is not what the sage does. He's interested in being integrated, quiet and wise ... the profound union within and with the way.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

PS. Its so peaceful here in the TTC sub-forum ... maybe there's something to this Taoism lark.

 

You got a couple good chuckles out of me with that post.

 

The first TWO lines? Which hole are you suggesting we close? The one that the BS comes out of? Hehehe.

 

The people who talk much reminded me of me. I do post a lot here, don't I? I just feel I have something to say. Some people don't agree with me. I apologize for that.

 

Yes, it is peaceful here in the TTC sub-forum. Well, mostly. Hehehe. Some of us do still have some of our misunderstandings. I include myself in that group.

 

Indeed, Lines 2 - 7 talks about moderation. The middle path, if you will.

[ChiDragon]

1.知者不言。

2.言者不知。

 

There are three levels of interpretation here.

A. Personal level

1. One who speaks doesn't know.

2. One who knows doesn't speak.

 

B. Philosophical level

1. One who is wise will not speak.

2. One who will speak is not wise.

 

C. Political level

1. A ruler who is wise doesn't issue numerous decrees.

2. One who issues numerous decrees is not a wise ruler.

 

A. It was an irony of a Chinese scholastic arrogance. It says, one who was saying a lot but, actually, was saying nothing. One who is knowledgeable of the matter but hesitated to talk to those who cannot understand.

Edited August 1, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

C. Political level

1. A ruler who is wise doesn't issue numerous decrees.

2. One who issues numerous decrees is not a wise ruler.

 

Well, I will agree that much of the TTC is directed toward the ruler or leader of people but I suggest that the association to those people is not openly expressed in this chapter.

 

But I will agree as, afterall, it is said that the more laws a society has the more criminals it will have. This can be tested to be true simply by looking at the US and seeing how many people are in jail for smoking pot.

[dawei]

Here is Flowing Hand's translation:

 

CHAPTER 56

Those who are enlightened, sit in silence.

Those who think they know something, are forever talking.

In silence and peace one can become enlightened.

No one can teach someone else how to become enlightened,

for it stems from within the heart.

Be at one with Heaven and Earth and then you can become enlightened.

He who has become enlightened, is unconcerned with friends, enemies,

honour or disgrace, with wealth and titles.

For he has become at one with the Dao.

This is the highest state of man.

 

-----

 

It's a much more interesting take. And we see "Xuan" (玄) which has gotten some mileage out of the other thread on Laozi's "De". But here is a good place to explain it more since it will clear up why Flowing Hands translates this line as he does:

 

Be at one with Heaven and Earth and then you can become enlightened.

 

 

同其塵

Same/Together/Union Its Dust

 

是謂玄同

Is Called Far-reaching/Mystic/Primal Same/Together/Union

 

The key is the opening where he takes silence as the basis for enlightenment. In silence and peace one becomes ONE with Heaven and Earth. Chapter one shows "Xuan" as where the 'two emerge from the same source'; thus Xuan is a bridge between realms; between "Wu" and "You", or between Heaven and Earth.

 

The early writers also saw Xuan as associated to Heaven; Heshang Gong wrote of "XuanTian" (the silence of heaven). The previous line has "dust" which is code for that which clouds our minds but also is earth.

 

Richard Bertschinger translates this line as:

be one with the dust of the world. This is to be one with the state of silence.

 

Liao as:

Be at home with the down to earth. This is the state in which you are united with the Tao.

Edited August 1, 2011 by dawei

[Marblehead]

Beautiful!

 

That's all I will say at the moment.

[lienshan]

Sorry, but all translations of the last line in this thread are not correct

 

The problem is the verb "wei" that means either "to be" or "to do, to make".

 

The differentiation was e.g. done by by using two ways of writing "therefore":

 

"gu wei" means "therefore to do, to make"

"shi yi wei" means "therefore to be"

 

Therefore make the world dearest.

 

The Guodian version has an extra "zhi" character in each of the first two lines:

 

That which make knowledge isn't speech.

That which make speech isn't knowledge.

 

"That which" is in my way of reading the chapter: the world.

Edited August 1, 2011 by lienshan

[ChiDragon]

1.知者不言。

2.言者不知。

 

There are three levels of interpretation here.

A. Personal level

1. One who speaks doesn't know.

2. One who knows doesn't speak.

 

B. Philosophical level

1. One who is wise will not speak.

2. One who will speak is not wise.

 

C. Political level

1. A ruler who is wise doesn't issue numerous decrees.

2. One who issues numerous decrees is not a wise ruler.

 

A. It was an irony of a Chinese scholastic arrogance. It says, one who was saying a lot but, actually, was saying nothing. One who is knowledgeable of the matter but hesitated to talk to those who cannot understand.

 

B. Philosophical level

1. One who is wise will not speak.

2. One who will speak is not wise.

 

B. It sounds like to be a wise one was by not speaking at all. That was not the case, it was simply means to be wise if one doesn't say something to upset, offend, irritate or agitate someone.

 

C. Political level

1. A ruler who is wise doesn't issue numerous decrees.

2. One who issues numerous decrees is not a wise ruler.

 

C: 知者(one who knows) is interchangeable with 智者(an intelligent one) which implies that a ruler as an intelligent individual. It was a taboo to mention the ruler directly in any document. That was why LaoTze uses these terms sage, wise one, intelligent one, or virtuous person as an implication for a ruler.

[stan herman]

56. Those who hold wisdom do not scatter words. Those who scatter words do not hold wisdom.

 

Being,

quietly, without explanation,

releasing one's hold,

untangling ones ties,

clearing ones head,

accustoming one's vision,

grounding one's self,

These are the means of Tao

 

The one unswayed by passion, profit or praise is champion.

Following the way, he has become the way.

[stan herman]

 

That which make knowledge isn't speech.

That which make speech isn't knowledge.

 

"That which" is in my way of reading the chapter: the world.

 

It's mine too. I was first struck by the incongruity of "those who know don't speak, those ..." Now, why should we believe this 'speaker'?

[dawei]

Now, why should we believe this 'speaker'?

Because he is able to rule the realm by with wu wei and be the example of stillness of the carved block of simplicity... but I get ahead of myself; this is explained in the next chapter

[ChiDragon]

It's mine too. I was first struck by the incongruity of "those who know don't speak, those ..." Now, why should we believe this 'speaker'?

Those who know don't speak was because the others won't listen. Why should they be wasting their time talking.

Edited August 2, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

Those who know don't speak was because the others won't listen. Why should they be wasting their time talking.

I think you must be truly joking, yes? That is an IV drip of Confucian thought.

 

At least the Confucian Wang Bi had a reasonable explanation: He said it was simply "Zi Ran" (following the way of nature) that brings this about. Unspoken truth is actually better understood; spoken words can deceive.

[ChiDragon]

It's mine too. I was first struck by the incongruity of "those who know don't speak, those ..." Now, why should we believe this 'speaker'?

 

dawei...

Here is your answer in bold.

Edited August 2, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

Here is your answer.

You gave your explanation as to the speaker who is silent because he might waste his time on others. Is that Laozi's position? He is tired of others who won't listen so he is silent to spite them? He is silent because chinese culture has for thousands of years preferred action over words.

[Stigweard]

Erm did we ever consider that perhaps the speaker doesn't speak because she actually understands Chapter 1 properly ???

 

Just a thought ... carry on

[dawei]

Erm did we ever consider that perhaps the speaker doesn't speak because she actually understands Chapter 1 properly ???

 

Just a thought ... carry on

Except Chapter 1 was written after Chapter 56, since the former was not in the earliest text

 

But i think you maybe knew that and so that makes your point even that much stronger