Stillness Movement and other exercises

[Baguakid]

I seem to remember seeing a post by Yamu saying that Zhan Zhuang is not good in conjunction with Stillness Movement practice?

 

IIRC, does ZZ negate Stillness Movement effects? Any other types of exercises should be stopped?

 

 

tks.

[寒月 Hanyue]

I seem to remember seeing a post by Yamu saying that Zhan Zhuang is not good in conjunction with Stillness Movement practice?

 

IIRC, does ZZ negate Stillness Movement effects? Any other types of exercises should be stopped?

 

 

tks.

 

You've mis-understood. Go and re-read the post (or copy and paste it in this thread for clarification).

 

站桩 zhan zhuang literally means "stand(ing)" "post" and in one common understanding refers to the polarity nature of standing between heaven and earth. Today it has become a catch all term, like qigong has. There are many many ways to approach standing practices, health, energy, martial arts etc. "Standing" exercises are fundamentally different in energy based and health based systems as to martial arts. This is simply due to the aims/reasons for doing the practice.

 

Stillness-Movement neigong includes standing, as well as the other 'modes' and beyond.

 

The name zhan zhuang comes from martial arts (and was popularised by Wang Xiangzhai), and though there is debate about the origin, one of the better explanations is that it comes from the old practice of literally standing on poles to improve alignment and balance (see below for more).

 

Over the years ideas change and expand. Generally in Chinese martial arts 桩功 zhuang gong can be understood as involving 站桩 (zhan zhuang)"standing 'post'", 坐桩 (zuo zhuang)"sitting 'post'", 行桩 (xing zhuang)"moving 'post'", and 卧桩 (wo zhuang)"lying 'post'". Not all systems use all of them and each has its own preference for how they are used and to what extent. For example the Bagua practice 走圈 "circle walking" is considered 行桩 xing zhuang "moving post" (sometimes also referred to as 動桩 dong zhuang), and as such zhan zhuang has less of an emphasis if it appears at all. It really comes down to where 桩 zhuang is initially trained.

 

This is a very physical training. These gong are obviously based upon the general idea of 四德 (si de) the "four virtues" (standing, sitting, lying, moving). But there is also a fifth virtue related to being able to interact using any of the si de, which gives us 聽桩 (ting zhuang)"listening 'post'" (any push hands drills are ting zhuang). Use of the si de is not exclusive to the martial arts, but the way zhuang gong is trained is fundamentally different to qigong practices or Daoist neigong practices that also makes use of them.

 

The fact that several martial art Masters have also learned Daoist neigong/qigong and have added that to zhuang gong often confuses this issue.

 

I have not heard Ya Mu say you cannot practice martial arts and SM together, the advice is to put neigong over waigong (since that is the focus of SM). If you are after energetic development that has to be your focus, if you are after martial development that has to be your focus.

 

Best,

 

Apologies for the more 'academic' response, but hopefully you'll appreciate why.

 

"Mei Hua Zhuang is an ancient school of Chinese boxing which existed as early as the Han dynasty (B.C.E. 206 - A.C.E. 221). Mei Hua Zhuang Wugong consists of : Jiazi, Ba Fang, Chengquan, Yingquan, Weapons and Qigong. The name Mei Hua Zhuang means "Plum Flower Stakes" as this style was originally practiced on the tops of over 100 stakes driven into the ground. Today, however, the style is practiced on the ground but maintains the same precise footwork as when practiced upon stakes.

 

Students learning Mei Hua Zhuang begin first by learning the Jiazi or framework training set. This framework consists of static stances and moving steps. Each stance is held motionless for 3-5 breaths and so develops the strength and qi of the whole body. The moving steps are designed to develop fast, rapid and light footwork enabling the practitioner to move in all directions effortlessly. Unlike other forms of exercize like Tai jii or qi gong the jiazi does not intentionally manipulate the qi, but the spontaneous circulation of qi in the body obtained is a concept which permeates through meihuazhuang." (edited for brevity)

[Ya Mu]

I seem to remember seeing a post by Yamu saying that Zhan Zhuang is not good in conjunction with Stillness Movement practice?

 

IIRC, does ZZ negate Stillness Movement effects? Any other types of exercises should be stopped?

 

 

tks.

Don't remember saying that. But sometimes I post really quick and may have put a wrong slant on what I was attempting to convey.

I am hoping to soon release a core move from Gift of the Tao II on DVD that is amazing in it's energetics. It utilizes principles of standing combined with other principles.

 

Stillness-Movement itself, like snowmonki says, has its own standing method.

 

Anything martial arts oriented will have different energetics than Stillness-Movement but shouldn't effect the practice itself. I play with Hsing I a bit. Animals can certainly notice the different energy signatures. But I doubt if what you have been doing will effect Stillness-Movement practice as it is a stands on its own as a system.