Beautiful Chen Tai Ji Demonstration

[effilang]

[ChiDragon]

The demonstration shows the practice at a much higher level of Tai Ji which called Tai Ji Qigong using (發勁)fajin with deep breathing. I think you can hear the breathing in the video at 1.31 min. 勁(jin) was developed from the practice of the basic movements day after day. One can only use (發勁)fajin at the highest level.

Edited August 3, 2011 by ChiDragon

[effilang]

I know that a lot of the fajin movements within forms are interlayed within the form itself but sometimes when i am doing a non fajin form i feel a charge, almost like a build up of potential and sometimes whether i force it or not i am compelled to explode the energy out of my body and it makes me shake just like in a scripted fajin, is this natural fajin? It feels like a mini orgasm to me.

 

It mostly happens when i am performing something slow. It's almost as if the soft Yin movements build up and consolidate until the Yin produces Yang and the Yang just literally explodes into being. This is what fajin feels to me like, very similar to sitting meditation where through doing nothing the Yin builds and produces true Yang after time and when the Yang reaches it's peak it turns to Yin. Amidoinitrite lol?

 

Also i have noticed while doing Chen style Tai Ji that the points at which the choreographed fajin is executed is normally the point around which i feel the need to explode. Could it be that the movements prior to the fajin in Chen style are specifically tailored to building that charge up during the form and letting it go just at the right time? To me it feels like poetic perfection that someone could invent something so subtle and accurate in correspondence with the coarse body, it's beautiful.

 

This is the main reason why i completely fell in love with the fajin movements of Chen style from day one, because it spoke to me immediately and without even knowing what it was at the time i was like, i get the urge to explode like that on my own all the time while doing other forms of taiji.

 

Quite fascinating. And yes i noticed his deep breathing, it stood out very prominently to me as you don't see that a lot in other forms. He was really working it. I have most of Master Ren's instructional videos/DVDs. He is very inspiring to me.

 

I've heard he practices for hours on end per day. I hope i can reach that level of endurance and find that much time during my day.

 

Edited August 3, 2011 by effilang

[Pu-erh]

I believe that is the short form he created for the movie The Fountain, based on Chen style cannon fist (laojia erlu, or old frame routine two). I have learned only about 1/3 of the original form but I like Master Ren's adaptation, and his demonstration is beautiful.

 

I have never heard this type of practice referred to as Tai Ji Qigong before, that is interesting. There is quite a bit of fa jin built into the cannon fist form. Also, there are students in my class who use fa jin and I'm not sure I would say they are at "the highest level" of Taiji practice. They are pretty good, though. I mean, actually we all do fa jin but some just have more jin than others. Mine is pretty weak.

 

With regard to practicing several hours a day, my teacher told me not to go for more than two hours per day, in general, saying that you should use Taiji to benefit your health, not sacrifice your health to further Taiji through overtraining. He actually pointed to Yang Chengfu as an example of what happens when you overdo it (Yang Chengfu died at 53, IIRC).

 

Anyway, just my two cents... awesome Taiji demonstration.

[minkus]

Chidragon its yust a mini-Erlu like Pu-Erh described .. every form of taiji is a form of qigong if you look at it. In this case its Chenjiagou Taijiquan wich he learned from GM Chen Xiaowang.

 

Credit where credit is due, cheers !

[ChiDragon]

Chidragon its yust a mini-Erlu like Pu-Erh described .. every form of taiji is a form of qigong if you look at it. In this case its Chenjiagou Taijiquan wich he learned from GM Chen Xiaowang.

 

Credit where credit is due, cheers !

Yes, every form of Tai Ji is Chi Kung but one must reach at the highest level to be considered Chi Kung. Anyway, after one passed the basic level, then goes to the different levels such as push hand, fast Tai Ji, Tai Ji Kung. Now-a-days, Tai Ji Kung is called Tai Ji Qigong for some reason.

 

As I had said before, I must emphasize that Jin was achieved from the long period of practice with the basic movements. At the beginning level, the basic practice must not exert any force on the muscles. It can be said that one is at the Yin stage. After years of practice with the basic movements, the Jin will be built in the muscles. It can be said that one is at the Yang stage. Then, one can do pushing hands. Without the Jin, one cannot do pushing hands. Without Jin, one cannot do Tai Ji Kung.

 

At the stage of Tai Ji Kung, muscle strength were exerted to arms and legs by muscle contraction.

Deep breathing must be done, in order, to generate the muscle strength or energy. Jin is much stronger than regular body strength. Someone had mentioned that some students have weaker Jin than the other. Actually, the weaker Jin was not Jin at all but just normal body strength. If one hasn't been practiced for years or just a beginner, then one will not have any Jin at all.

 

PS....

What I had said, here, is the basic fundamental knowledge that all the Tai Ji practitioners should be aware of.

 

 

Edited to add:

BTW Jin can be achieved without doing any weight lifting. I used my Jin and beat my brother-in-law in arm wresting. He has been doing some weight lifting for quite sometime. After our match, his right lower arm had a little pain for couple weeks.

Edited August 3, 2011 by ChiDragon

[LBDaoist]

That guy has some good jin.

[Pu-erh]

ChiDragon, it sounds like you might know more about Taijiquan than I do... can you cite a source for the information in your last post, like what teacher or book you learned it from?

[ChiDragon]

ChiDragon, it sounds like you might know more about Taijiquan than I do... can you cite a source for the information in your last post, like what teacher or book you learned it from?

Hi, Pu-erh

You see, all my sources are from the books written, in my native language, by the past Tai Chi masters. I had learned from the theories in these books and based on my empirical experience. However, if you have any unresolved questions, I am glad to answer you with the best of my knowledge right here in the forum....

[Pu-erh]

Okay, well specifically, for one thing, I don't understand why Taiji practice would have to be at the highest level to be considered qigong. After all, anyone with no experience at all can practice a qigong form like the 5 Animal Frolics or 8 Pieces of Brocade and that is qigong, right? So why would a Taiji practitioner have to have reached the highest level for his practice to be considered qigong? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

Also, I have never heard the terms Tai Chi Kung or Taiji Qigong before and I was wondering where you were getting them, and if there was a book or something I could look it up in to get more information.

 

The Yin stage/Yang stage thing makes sense to me although I've never heard it explained in exactly those terms.

 

Also, I'm not sure about your statement that one needs to be at the Yang Stage and have "jin" to do pushing hands. I practice pushing hands, and I do not think I am at the stage you are talking about. I can barely touch some of the students in my class, while others I can beat easily. I think jin may be relative, not like you either have it or you don't. Also, there's not only one jin, there are many. For example in pushing hands I use ting jin, listening power, which I have developed at least to some extent, and that is a big part of what allows me to beat newer students.

[ChiDragon]

1. Okay, well specifically, for one thing, I don't understand why Taiji practice would have to be at the highest level to be considered qigong. After all, anyone with no experience at all can practice a qigong form like the 5 Animal Frolics or 8 Pieces of Brocade and that is qigong, right? So why would a Taiji practitioner have to have reached the highest level for his practice to be considered qigong? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

2. Also, I have never heard the terms Tai Chi Kung or Taiji Qigong before and I was wondering where you were getting them, and if there was a book or something I could look it up in to get more information.

 

3. The Yin stage/Yang stage thing makes sense to me although I've never heard it explained in exactly those terms.

 

4. Also, I'm not sure about your statement that one needs to be at the Yang Stage and have "jin" to do pushing hands. I practice pushing hands, and I do not think I am at the stage you are talking about. I can barely touch some of the students in my class, while others I can beat easily. I think jin may be relative, not like you either have it or you don't. Also, there's not only one jin, there are many. For example in pushing hands I use ting jin, listening power, which I have developed at least to some extent, and that is a big part of what allows me to beat newer students.

Very good, I am glad that you are asking this kind of questions. If I can explain it, then, I will understand more of it myself.

 

To answer your questions:

1. Let's say before you practice Tai Ji Quan, you just have a normal body with regular body strength. What will the practice of Tai Ji do to your body...??? It will build up your muscle tone by the slow movements, it helps you to breathe better, it makes you a stronger person, and it builds up your reflexes. The practitioner must practice day by day in order to transform the body to incorporate these features. Now, you only have a Tai Chi body because the Jin had been built in your muscles from the long practice. However, this is only the first milestone.

 

As a noice, you were practicing with relaxation. To make to story short, I just skip to the Qigong part. In order to have the Jin to be stronger, the second level is to do fast Tai Ji. At this level, you just do the movements a lot faster and the distance of the movement are shorter. When you do that, your muscles are automatically contracted without you being even aware of it. Again, the Jin are also being built in the muscles to be much stronger.

 

At the third level, now you do your Tai Ji at a speed that you are comfortable with. It should be faster than the beginning level with your muscles contracted, intentionally, and breathe deeply. When you do that, it was considered to be the Tai Ji Gong. Normally, Tai Ji Gong was not mentioned in the west, that's why you never heard of it before. Only the ones that are very serious about learning it, I think your teacher may be considered teaching it to you if you ask.

 

2. I have already answered in 1.

 

3. Those are only my understanding and thoughts and I think it was easier to transmit them to you that way. Actually, I wanted to draw your attention to the Yin-Yang concept. There is a lot to tell. Let's go slow on that. I'll explain that to you along with some other questions, in case, that you might have later.

 

4. The question about Jin. Normally, you have your own body strength. Some of the people are stronger than the others. Practicing Tai Ji will convert your body strength into Jin; it can make it much more powerful than your normal strength when you reach the Tai Ji Gong level as I'd mentioned in 1. Then, you are considered to be at the highest level of Tai Ji.

 

You've mentioned that you can easily beat some others, it was because your normal body strength was strong than them and vice versa. If you have Jin, you can beat someone that has the same strength as you do. This has something to do with Ting Jin(聽勁), listening to other's Jin. I think I know what it is, but I want to confirm it before I get back to you on this. In the meantime, don't read too much into the things that you might not know too much about and get confuse.

 

Edited to add:

聽勁(Ting Jin) - 通過練太極拳架及推手培養出來的周身感覺

Here is the Chinese definition of 聽勁(Ting Jin):

It was the holistic sensation of the body which cultivated from Tai Ji Quan stance and pushing hand.

 

It means use the whole body to feel the strength of the counterpart. In order to do so, you must have Jin in your body for that purpose. The Jin in the body will increase your sensitivity.

Edited August 5, 2011 by ChiDragon