Example Protocol to test Fa Jin ability

[Andrei]

http://neigong.net/2...th-zhao-daoxin/

 

https://secure.wikim...iki/Dachengquan

 

http://neigong.net/2...zhai-1885-1963/ (warning, contrary opinions are contained here)

 

More fuel.

 

 

 

too much philosophy

[Andrei]

very good movie Geochilmaru (Korea 2005)

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2dd8i_geochilmaru-vostfr-p2_shortfilms

Edited August 13, 2011 by steam

[Prince...]

I don't come to TB very often, so just my thoughts on the last 18 pages that I read (because I'm bored and am resting up for HKC tomorrow morning)

 

In a number of those Taikiken v/ Kyokushin bouts, the karatekas just look stronger. As my teacher says,"sometimes you just have to be fuckin' strong."

 

Someone mentioned full contact tai chi fighters? Ever hear of Max Chen-- William CC Chen's son? He and his sister have both been world champion amateur sanshou fighters. I've just started sanshou, and every punch, kick, or throw is in one of the two forms that I practice-- Yang 108 & Guang Ping Yang style.

 

I think Stiggie's energy in this thread is really coming from a bad experience in "The Kwoon," a group of internal martial artists on Facebook. I am also a member of that group. For the most part it has turned into "Let me show how much martial theory I know that you don't!"

 

Michael Phillips lives in San Diego. I wrote him last year about coming to my city to do a seminar. He did not reply.

 

 

I don't play taijiqun to learn to beat people up. If that is the attitude of the student, my teacher won't teach him/her. The training is to avoid confrontation and fights. Not as widely publicized as Akido which you might relate to.

It just takes longer and more patience to learn taijiquan well.

 

I've only been a Taiji player for 2 1/2 years. I used to tell people that I do it because it is calming or whatever, but fuck that...I like punching people in the face. If I'm not going to learn some type of combat skill then I'm done with Taiji. I've already said that I only plan to teach it for the health aspects when I do eventually develop some skill.

 

Yes taichi is like yoga being thats its a valid spiritual path.

 

The taichi body, Jing body, and Golden bell is what makes taichi very unique.

 

 

The body and attainment of a real taichi master is very special.

 

And I can hear many a poster on Rum Soaked Fist groaning right now as they prepare to toss the bullshit flag.

 

Taiji people like to be rooted. Well, imagine them getting kicked viciously by a kickboxer whose legs have been kicking tires and wooden dummies for years? Are they going to maintain root? No, they'll get their legs broken and scream in pain because they've never practiced meeting this kind of thing. They only practice with soft pudgy cuddly cooperating students who probably can't even press a kettlebell or do more than 20 pushups in a row and can't do one pullup and they go around talking about li being inferior.

 

My Sifu has fought in the Baltimore tournament a number of times-- he is training his girlfriend and myself to fight next year. We don't kick trees, but I have a nice thai bag. My workouts consist mainly of pistol squats, pullups, hindu pushups, and whatever kettlebell circuits I decide to make up-- but I'm also a personal trainer. Did I mention I have a kettlebell certification in the morning? But yes, you're right-- which brings me back to something my teacher always says-- Sometimes you just have to be fuckin' strong.

 

It is introduced under the guise of fajin testing, giving the person practicing a feeling of opposition but not too much to oppose them completely. It was like a bio-feedback, the further back the person gets pushed the more fajin was produced. It is only meant to test that the pusher's structure and coordination is right. Often though were we admonished for "not resisting properly" meaning we didn't lock our structure together properly and we didn't comply to the push enough.

 

If you've been to the Baltimore tournament, then you know my Sigung, Dug Corpolongo. He teaches this--as a training tool-- basically to demonstrate how if you have a person tensed and putting all their weight on you that you can basically do whatever you want. I pushed a 300 lbs guy across a basketball court. Doesn't mean I have any skill, just means in a drill where a 300 lbs, over-compliant person loads up all their weight on me, I might be able to push them really far. Sigung says the trick is learning how to detect the half a second when a person is off balance like that to do whatever you want to do to them. That's the hard part, though...

 

A tennis player is considered old at 30, a gymnast, at 20. A professional boxer gets sick later in life -- every single one of them. A ballerina retires at 35. No matter how long and how hard they work at becoming highly skilled, there's a ceiling they hit very early and then the best they can do is linger there for a few more years, gradually (or abruptly) sliding down in skill, in the health of the body, and from what I've seen, let's not even mention the state of the mind that comes with the "has-been" status which can't be remedied by any amount of hard work and dedication.

At 30 we begin losing muscle and continue to do so as we age. The more active a person is will slow down the loss of muscle. I cannot dunk a basketball like I could when I was 16. Being only 5-7 and relying on my athleticism so much basically means I would really struggle playing basketball now. It would almost be like playing with one less sense. At the same time, I can also see a play developing on the court 5 steps before it occurs. Unfortunately in some of these sports, becoming smarter just is not enough when the body is no longer there.

 

Sorry for the long post...I do love IMA, but I believe Taiji is too watered down. Even now I am dealing with the Taiji teacher at the local YMCA who teaches people that he can cause light bulbs to illuminate by everyone focusing their chi on him. I like to call him Captain Planet.

 

Oh yeah, Mal-- Paul Dong's book on Empty Force is basically Yiquan as taught by Han Xingyuan. He mostly uses postures 1,3, & 7, but instead of visualizing something pushing on you, he shoots mind bullets into the air. I thought it was pretty silly, but I have recently read something on Yiquan teachers in China projecting energy-- even though they deny this type of thing.

 

I'm planning to study Yiquan overseas soon, mostly because I like it more than anything else I've learned. My school is actually Taiji/Yiquan/XingYi/Bagua, but I would like to do Yiquan exclusively. This is why I said that eventually I will only teach Taiji as a health practice. If my future students want the goods, they will have to do Yiquan-- if they want to go back and apply that to Taiji, I will not stop them. I would love to know that maybe I will have played a part in Taiji becoming a respectable art in the future.

[Stigweard]

Another fail...

 

[Prince...]

LOL not quite the way it went down. I just challenged MP & co. to back up their claims of super-powered martial arts ability (aka light or no-touch fajin) by showing clips of them doing it in either full contact fighting or in a fully controlled scientific environment.

 

Needless to say they cried foul and dumped their typically responses at me.

 

A serious question that should be raised: If they were able to support their claims, would you still accept it as being valid or would you be the one crying foul?

 

In the last month I have had everything I basically understood about Taiji and all this "energy cultivation stuff" turned upside down by 2 of my new teachers. Ironically one of them is a former student of Mr. Michael Phillips.

 

I am going to say this as it was said to me-- Michael can fight. All the 18 pages of posts saying he would probably get his teeth knocked out? Unless you have a higher level of skill than he has, I suggest not sharing your opinion with him. I interact with Michael Phillips, Adam Mizner, and a number of other people considered to be "high level instructors" all of the time on Facebook, and I've seen Michael get really nasty with people even for an old man with some injuries.

 

Is what he's doing real? He pushes people, they jump back...sure. How is he generating the power to do so? That is above my paygrade right now. Will it work on everyone? Not if you're above his paygrade or at least know how to neutralize what he's doing to issue his force.

 

I'll submit a video of me "trying" to push with one of the best people I've ever met. Physically I'm much stronger and faster than this person, but there was nothing I could do to him. His words were,"I'm only going to play at your level and not use any energy at all."

 

So this is just something for those people searching for answers concerning whether or not all of this "Taiji stuff" is real or not.

 

[gendao]

I'll submit a video of me "trying" to push with one of the best people I've ever met. Physically I'm much stronger and faster than this person, but there was nothing I could do to him. His words were,"I'm only going to play at your level and not use any energy at all."

 

So this is just something for those people searching for answers concerning whether or not all of this "Taiji stuff" is real or not.

 

Awesome! So, how did he develop his gong? Hours a day of zhan zhuang for a decade, or what?

[ChiDragon]

Awesome! So, how did he develop his gong? Hours a day of zhan zhuang for a decade, or what?

 

It is the Jin that was developed from the years of Tai Ji practice. I had said this many times. I am not surprised that so many people had claimed that they had learnt Tai Ji from knowledgeable teachers. However, they are still in the mist about Fa Jin. Unfortunately, the sad part is that I was treated as a fool when it comes to the knowledge of Tai Ji...

[mYTHmAKER]

A serious question that should be raised: If they were able to support their claims, would you still accept it as being valid or would you be the one crying foul?

 

In the last month I have had everything I basically understood about Taiji and all this "energy cultivation stuff" turned upside down by 2 of my new teachers. Ironically one of them is a former student of Mr. Michael Phillips.

 

I am going to say this as it was said to me-- Michael can fight. All the 18 pages of posts saying he would probably get his teeth knocked out? Unless you have a higher level of skill than he has, I suggest not sharing your opinion with him. I interact with Michael Phillips, Adam Mizner, and a number of other people considered to be "high level instructors" all of the time on Facebook, and I've seen Michael get really nasty with people even for an old man with some injuries.

 

Is what he's doing real? He pushes people, they jump back...sure. How is he generating the power to do so? That is above my paygrade right now. Will it work on everyone? Not if you're above his paygrade or at least know how to neutralize what he's doing to issue his force.

 

I'll submit a video of me "trying" to push with one of the best people I've ever met. Physically I'm much stronger and faster than this person, but there was nothing I could do to him. His words were,"I'm only going to play at your level and not use any energy at all."

 

So this is just something for those people searching for answers concerning whether or not all of this "Taiji stuff" is real or not.

 

 

The more you learn to song - relax the less he will have to push against

you need to stay more vertical - not lean forward or backward - keeping your center

[ChiDragon]

The more you learn to song - relax the less he will have to push against

you need to stay more vertical - not lean forward or backward - keeping your center

His whole body was mobilized by his opponent. He cannot hold his center position because the opponent's Jin is in full control. By the way that the people are giving advices, here, about Tai Ji, it seems to me that some are just totally lack of the knowledge about Jin or Fa Jin.

[mjjbecker]

To put it in simple language, you need to understand the principles and mechanics behind the movement. This I have had shown to me by a master of Wu taijiquan and also a Grandmaster of Chen tajiquan, in Beijing.

 

If you know and understand these things, you will develop skill and ability very quickly with practice. Many of the displays of 'fa jin' can be taught to a novice in a matter of minutes. I had said Wu taijiquan master show me this as he explained the mechanics behind the movements.

 

The problem is that there simply aren't many around, anywhere, who actually know and understand what they are doing and why. Something amply displayed by the existance of this thread.

 

Make no mistake whatsoever though. A real master of taijiquan could end your days very quickly. Forget about all the bullshit, the waffle regarding pushing hands and 'fa jin'. This only represents training. Taijiquan has extremely effective techniques for combat. In a few minutes I once trained a small work colleague how to apply a technique for self defence. Said colleague was attacked without provocation while outside a pub, holding a pint of beer. Applying the technique I showed him, while still holding the beer, he sent his attacker clean over a bench, conclusively ending the fight. Nothing fancy, mystical or esoteric. No 'fa jin', 'qi' or such like. Just a very effective technique from a very effective school.

 

If you want to learn and understand taijiquan, find a teacher who actually knows the art and can clearly demonstrate how and why it works. Forget about stupid mental masturbation over 'esoteric' principles and put your mind on whether what you are learning is applicable and effective for you.

[Prince...]

His whole body was mobilized by his opponent. He cannot hold his center position because the opponent's Jin is in full control. By the way that the people are giving advices, here, about Tai Ji, it seems to me that some are just totally lack of the knowledge about Jin or Fa Jin.

 

Right, He said he was only going to play "at my level." He pointed out that I'm really tense from my kettlebell workouts with my clients and will have to learn to balance my own training with IMA. Even still, I'm leaning because I'm being pushed and/or pulled. One minute he was a brick wall and the next he was a magnet.

 

There was a lot that was demonstrated with him that he asked us not to share, so I will just say that I witness various things that others have mentioned here.

 

Anyway, this guy has basically adopted my Taiji club here. I also have another teacher who I mentioned as being a former student of Michael Phillips. He is really freaking good, too!

 

I guess maybe this video falls more in line with this thread-- this is just a demonstration of different kinds of Fajin only using different parts of the body-- none of the stuff above our paygrades. There were some other demonstrations that were flat out scary, though.

 

[mYTHmAKER]

His whole body was mobilized by his opponent. He cannot hold his center position because the opponent's Jin is in full control. By the way that the people are giving advices, here, about Tai Ji, it seems to me that some are just totally lack of the knowledge about Jin or Fa Jin.

 

Are you referring to me sir LOL

Sorry if i am repeating myself but he doesn't have a strong center at this point in time,

and if he was able to let go and relax he would be in a better position to not be as easily controlled.

But what do i know