The Fastest Way to Build Chi and Martial Power

[Mal]

[ChiDragon]

Really...............???

[doc benway]

I think standing is an excellent way to build Qi awareness. The best way I have experienced to build Qi awareness is Daoist meditation techniques starting with the microcosmic orbit and moving to more complicated exercises. Taijiquan is an excellent method but it's more difficult than standing because the body is moving and the attention is distracted by things like balance and posture. It's much easier to focus when the body is still like when sitting and standing. But once you are experienced with the Taiji form and have a foundation in working with Qi awareness through sitting or standing, the Taiji forms are a superb method of building Qi awareness in my experience.

[dawei]

Hey Mal,

 

nice topic and you raised exactly what I thought as I read it; building vs using; I didn't realize you said this until I came back from the link.

 

I think the I-Chuan and the Da Mo set are the two I would recommend above all others since they develop vibrational Qi power. This seems, to me, the fastest method although it should be practiced quite a while and in conjunction with some moving methods. I think it's best to mix Nei Gong with Wai Gong.

 

It's too bad they don't show the I-Chuan series in that article. If I find my printouts I could PDF them and upload. The Da Mo series can be found in Yang Jwing-Ming's book, "Chi Kung, Health and Martial Arts". I could PDF those related pages if desired.

 

As to the TaiJi comment: I generally agree but find that Qigong enhances the ability for Taiji to build up Qi. In that link, Figure 2 is very close to what is done in Yang TaiJi as 云手 Cloud Hands (Wave hands like cloud). When I get to here, my hands light up as if I were just doing the I-Chuan or Qigong. So one can let these practices cross-pollinate

[Gerard]

How many years have you been involved in spiritual cultivation via Taiji/other Daoist methods?

[cheya]

I think standing is an excellent way to build Qi awareness. The best way I have experienced to build Qi awareness is Daoist meditation techniques starting with the microcosmic orbit and moving to more complicated exercises. Taijiquan is an excellent method but it's more difficult than standing because the body is moving and the attention is distracted by things like balance and posture. It's much easier to focus when the body is still like when sitting and standing. But once you are experienced with the Taiji form and have a foundation in working with Qi awareness through sitting or standing, the Taiji forms are a superb method of building Qi awareness in my experience.

 

Hi Steve,

You're using "qi awareness" as skills developed by both standing and taiji. Do you differentiate between building qi and moving qi in a similar way to what Mal was saying? Seems like you might have a different overall perspective, and I hope you'll elaborate...

 

cheya

Edited December 28, 2014 by cheya

[ChiDragon]

Over forty years as a teacher and practitioner has demonstrated to me that

the two most direct methods to building chi are either:

 

(1) to use acupuncture meridian qigong, or

(2) to hold specific standing postures.

Acupuncture meridian line qigong5 involves doing something to the outside

of your body (the etheric body) such as moving your hands on specific

energy lines to trigger feelings inside.

Although meridian line qigong can enable you to get a faster initial feeling

of chi, it is a slower way to build power.

 

IMO Most people are so confused with the definition of "Chi". There is a fallacy in lines a and 2. Lines 1 and 2 are mixing apples and oranges. The Chi in line 1 was referring to the functional activities of the organs; and the Chi in line 2 was referring to the Chi in breathing. Holding a specific standing postures only change the formation of the leg muscles. Without breathing, one will not receive any Chi at all.

 

If one wants to know about Chi, one needs to know the distinction of all the definitions of "Chi" and be sure one knew which Chi that he was talking about.

 

Edited to add:

BTW There is no way to achieve what the title says. It has to be done be practice after practice of one individual.

Edited August 5, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Green Tiger]

IMO Most people are so confused with the definition of "Chi". There is a fallacy in lines a and 2. Lines 1 and 2 are mixing apples and oranges. The Chi in line 1 was referring to the functional activities of the organs; and the Chi in line 2 was referring to the Chi in breathing. Holding a specific standing postures only change the formation of the leg muscles. Without breathing, one will not receive any Chi at all.

 

If one wants to know about Chi, one needs to know the distinction of all the definitions of "Chi" and be sure one knew which Chi that he was talking about.

 

Edited to add:

BTW There is no way to achieve what the title says. It has to be done be practice after practice of one individual.

 

So, if, you're doing a standing meditation and you feel a sort of magnetic sensation between your hands, that is breathing chi?

 

If you are standing and slowly moving your hands over various parts of your body (like the arms and legs f'instance) and you feel muscle tremors in the part of the arm/leg, that that is organ chi?

 

 

Are those the types of things he's talking about?

[ChiDragon]

1. So, if, you're doing a standing meditation and you feel a sort of magnetic sensation between your hands, that is breathing chi?

 

2. If you are standing and slowly moving your hands over various parts of your body (like the arms and legs f'instance) and you feel muscle tremors in the part of the arm/leg, that that is organ chi?

 

 

3. Are those the types of things he's talking about?

 

1. First of all, if one don't breathe, one will die. The magnetic sensation between your hands are the heat which generated by your body. If you put two hands together one inch apart, then you have the heats from both hands added. The magnetic sensation was the summation of the heats from the two hands.

 

2. You muscle tremors was because you are an novice. The muscles of a novice were not used to having the new stresses applied the legs and arms. Those are not the organ chi. As I mentioned before, the definition of organ chi is the function activities of the organ.

 

3. I don't know what are the types of things that he was talking about. I will not assume that I know what he's talking about. Also, I will not assume that he knows what he was talking about neither. I can only talk about what I'd already learned with some basic understanding.

[Green Tiger]

1. First of all, if one don't breathe, one will die. The magnetic sensation between your hands are the heat which generated by your body. If you put two hands together one inch apart, then you have the heats from both hands added. The magnetic sensation was the summation of the heats from the two hands.

 

2. You muscle tremors was because you are an novice. The muscles of a novice were not used to having the new stresses applied the legs and arms. Those are not the organ chi. As I mentioned before, the definition of organ chi is the function activities of the organ.

 

3. I don't know what are the types of things that he was talking about. I will not assume that I know what he's talking about. Also, I will not assume that he knows what he was talking about neither. I can only talk about what I'd already learned with some basic understanding.

1. mmmk, so what if the hands are a foot and a half (18 inches) apart and the sensation is still there? still heat?

 

 

2. I'm talking about a twitch that appears to be more nerve than muscle, located in a spot that is not under muscular strain. I've read some of Bruce's other books and I had come to call these types of phenomena "blockages" since that is the termonology he uses.

 

3. Sounds good. So what is the fastest (or most efficient) way to build chi, in your experience/opinion?

[ChiDragon]

1. mmmk, so what if the hands are a foot and a half (18 inches) apart and the sensation is still there? still heat?

 

2. I'm talking about a twitch that appears to be more nerve than muscle, located in a spot that is not under muscular strain. I've read some of Bruce's other books and I had come to call these types of phenomena "blockages" since that is the termonology he uses.

 

3. Sounds good. So what is the fastest (or most efficient) way to build chi, in your experience/opinion?

1. Yes, IMO, it is still the heat energy generated by the body, but it was only in a greater magnitude. It depends on how long or what level of the art has been practiced.

 

2. I don't know what kind of experience you have in Chi Kung or Kung Fu. Do you practice them at all? You sounded like that you have not. After a long time of practice, your muscles will be able to withstand more stresses than before. Would this contradict what you had read from Bruce's book...???

 

3. There is no fastest way to build Chi; but there is a most efficient way. I had said it before and I'll say it again. Practice, practice and practice.

 

Let's me ask you this, what have you been observed the most common things that the Chi Kung practitioners do in their practice...???

Edited August 6, 2011 by ChiDragon

[doc benway]

Hi Steve,

You're using "qi awareness" as skills developed by both standing and taiji. Do you differentiate between building qi and moving qi in a similar way to what Mal was saying? Seems like you might have a different overall perspective, and I hope you'll elaborate...

 

Adeha

You asked for it - I can get pretty wordy when discussing this stuff - I dig it! Beware!

 

My shifu is not one to explain Qi, theory, or philosophy. He doesn't encourage much reading or studying. He taught me how to practice (Taijiquan, Qigong, and Dao meditation primarily). As I gain experience in the meditation exercises, I share that with him and he gives me feedback and advances me as he sees fit. Most of his comments are along the lines of "keep practicing." He rarely tries to correct or offer interpretations of what I experience but gives subtle guidance. So my ideas about Qi are basically my own and a result of my personal experience and practice. Of course I've done some reading about it but analysis and study are more validation and verification rather than education.

 

I have no idea what Qi is really. I've not seen anything to convince me that anyone can classify, categorize, measure, or capture it in any way. So I don't approach it from a perspective of what it is but what it is that I feel and experience. I don't experience QI as stuff. It doesn't seem to be a quantity of anything per se and then again you could equally say that it's everything. It's not something that I think can be held or stored like many like to describe it. Maybe it can, maybe not, it's irrelevant.

 

Working with QI first involves becoming aware of it, feeling it. This is done by "tuning," if you will, the Yi 意 or mind intent to "feel" inside the body (and eventually outside as well). So the practitioner develops skill in sensing the body (and eventually beyond) using something other than sight, hearing, taste, tactile sensation, or smell. At first it's very subtle, difficult, and vague. Daoist techniques allow one to develop considerable clarity and precision in this. The feeling is something like sexual sensation but very subtle in the beginning, and it is often easiest to feel it low in the pelvis, just above the perineum in the area of the prostate. For some, it's easier to feel in the lower dan tian. It's not coincidental that Daoist neigong involves converting Jing (sexual or reproductive essence) to Qi and that the sensation of Jing and Qi is related to sexual sensation.

 

Exactly what is doing the sensing and what is being sensed is not something I can say that I know for sure or can express well. From one perspective, it just is. It is not subject and object but just non-dual experience but the Chinese are nothing if not practical so let's get away from metaphysics. To me, it seems that it is the intersection or interaction of mind 心 and "form" or manifestation. Where mind (xin) interacts with form, this interface for me is Qi. And the human capacity to guide this interaction is Yi. This is nothing more than a description of what I feel and how I interpret it. Words are always lacking in this arena.

 

So for me, Qi is always already there, everywhere. It is the interface of awareness with form. It is not something I can store or concentrate. It is not something at all but it is everything at the same time. It is more a process or interaction than it is stuff of any kind (including energy - what a misused word that is!). But at the same time, to the extent that science can best describe the universe in terms of different forms of energy, perhaps that's exactly what it is.

 

So rather than store or build Qi, my experience is one of becoming progressively more sensitive to it and more skillful in terms of clarity, focus, and precision. The reason that Qi masters and Taijiquan masters can perform impressive feats is because of this sensitivity, clarity, and precision rather than because of an accumulation of some-thing or some-energy, again - only my observation and interpretation. I think our understanding is heavily influence by cultural factors and so most Chinese would disagree with me due to immersion in the Eastern paradigms that constantly talk about building and storing Qi, as if it were quantifiable stuff.

 

Part of the genesis of these ideas was the realization that "I" don't end at my skin. That is an illusion created by my sensory organs and my conditioning. So if I don't end at my skin, how can I trap or contain Qi within the body? And what is the body that it can contain Qi (by contain, I mean store, prevent from diffusion). So Qi is there, "I" tune my mind intent to it and then exercise that capacity to "move it" and work with it. But in this same vein, what am I moving? Is there something to move? Or is it my awareness and intention/attention that are moving? That's more consistent with what I feel.

 

So my ideas are mine alone. I don't claim that they are "correct" but they have worked for me and are consistent with what research I have done. I think that my teacher discourages reading, studying, and unnecessary discussion of Qi and philosophy and theory for a very good reason. All of the theory and intellectual analysis do absolutely nothing to help one experience it and develop clarity and skill in working with it. On the other hand, they do create certain expectations and biases that can be a significant obstacle to a more pure and "naive" experience, which I think is much more valuable than mere understanding. An hour spent cultivating will take you further in your cultivation than a half hour cultivating and a half hour reading or discussing it.

 

I find there to be so much inaccurate stuff in books and on the web about Qi that I'm hoping this gives a different perspective.

Again, just my $.02, it's quite possible that I have no idea what I'm talking about!

And that's fine too.

[Green Tiger]

 

I have no idea what Qi is really. I've not seen anything to convince me that anyone can classify, categorize, measure, or capture it in any way. So I don't approach it from a perspective of what it is but what it is that I feel and experience. I don't experience QI as stuff. It doesn't seem to be a quantity of anything per se and then again you could equally say that it's everything. It's not something that I think can be held or stored like many like to describe it. Maybe it can, maybe not, it's irrelevant.

 

Working with QI first involves becoming aware of it, feeling it. This is done by "tuning," if you will, the Yi 意 or mind intent to "feel" inside the body (and eventually outside as well). So the practitioner develops skill in sensing the body (and eventually beyond) using something other than sight, hearing, taste, tactile sensation, or smell. At first it's very subtle, difficult, and vague. Daoist techniques allow one to develop considerable clarity and precision in this. The feeling is something like sexual sensation but very subtle in the beginning, and it is often easiest to feel it low in the pelvis, just above the perineum in the area of the prostate. For some, it's easier to feel in the lower dan tian. It's not coincidental that Daoist neigong involves converting Jing (sexual or reproductive essence) to Qi and that the sensation of Jing and Qi is related to sexual sensation.

 

Exactly what is doing the sensing and what is being sensed is not something I can say that I know for sure or can express well. From one perspective, it just is. It is not subject and object but just non-dual experience but the Chinese are nothing if not practical so let's get away from metaphysics. To me, it seems that it is the intersection or interaction of mind 心 and "form" or manifestation. Where mind (xin) interacts with form, this interface for me is Qi. And the human capacity to guide this interaction is Yi. This is nothing more than a description of what I feel and how I interpret it. Words are always lacking in this arena.

 

 

Thanks for the post, Steve. I especially appreciate "Words are always lacking in this arena." I've found that to be true as well. And my instructor is also reluctant to discuss Qi. He is more of a "show don't tell" kind of guy. Unfortunately, I do have an urge to discuss it and I don't know many other people who have the right frame of reference for these topics. I tried to discuss it with a friend and just got some incredulous looks.

 

I've only been practicing taiji a few years and my first undeniable sensation of qi occurred this year, so I'm still very new to the subject but my interest is still growing. I have had the same experience as you thus far: I feel that, while my sensitivity to qi is growing, I don't know that there is a quantity to change. It could be that it is more of an intensity than a quantity. I also feel that, as the sensation becomes stronger, my body reacts by aligning itself . . . or perhaps as I relax more and become more aligned, the sensation becomes stronger. It is hard to say which is the more accurate assessment.

 

At first I thought the sensations were some sort of balancing between tensions in the body--between left and right arms, upper and lower body, ect.--but that doesn't seem to be quite right either. And then there's the breathing . . . how does that factor in, exactly? The expansion and contraction of the diaphram, in coordination with proper spinal alignment and . . . bleh! It all falls apart.

 

Lately I've started to dig the bioelectricity concept, but certainly don't think it is heat, as chidragon suggested. I could also be wrong.

 

I do really appreciate an open honest discussion of the phenomena, though. Even if it doesn't enhance my practice, it keeps me sane.

[doc benway]

I think the most important thing to recognize is that there is no shortcuts or fast way to develop skill and clarity with this stuff.

It takes time, patience, and persistence.

[cheya]

.....Working with QI first involves becoming aware of it, feeling it. This is done by "tuning," if you will, the Yi ? or mind intent to "feel" inside the body (and eventually outside as well). So the practitioner develops skill in sensing the body (and eventually beyond) using something other than sight, hearing, taste, tactile sensation, or smell. At first it's very subtle, difficult, and vague. Daoist techniques allow one to develop considerable clarity and precision in this. The feeling is something like sexual sensation but very subtle in the beginning, and it is often easiest to feel it low in the pelvis, just above the perineum in the area of the prostate. For some, it's easier to feel in the lower dan tian. It's not coincidental that Daoist neigong involves converting Jing (sexual or reproductive essence) to Qi and that the sensation of Jing and Qi is related to sexual sensation.

 

Exactly what is doing the sensing and what is being sensed is not something I can say that I know for sure or can express well. From one perspective, it just is. It is not subject and object but just non-dual experience but the Chinese are nothing if not practical so let's get away from metaphysics. To me, it seems that it is the intersection or interaction of mind ? and "form" or manifestation. Where mind (xin) interacts with form, this interface for me is Qi. And the human capacity to guide this interaction is Yi. This is nothing more than a description of what I feel and how I interpret it. Words are always lacking in this arena.

 

So for me, Qi is always already there, everywhere. It is the interface of awareness with form. It is not something I can store or concentrate. It is not something at all but it is everything at the same time. It is more a process or interaction than it is stuff of any kind (including energy - what a misused word that is!).....

So rather than store or build Qi, my experience is one of becoming progressively more sensitive to it and more skillful in terms of clarity, focus, and precision. The reason that Qi masters and Taijiquan masters can perform impressive feats is because of this sensitivity, clarity, and precision rather than because of an accumulation of some-thing or some-energy, again - only my observation and interpretation. I think our understanding is heavily influence by cultural factors and so most Chinese would disagree with me due to immersion in the Eastern paradigms that constantly talk about building and storing Qi, as if it were quantifiable stuff.

 

Part of the genesis of these ideas was the realization that "I" don't end at my skin. That is an illusion created by my sensory organs and my conditioning. So if I don't end at my skin, how can I trap or contain Qi within the body? And what is the body that it can contain Qi (by contain, I mean store, prevent from diffusion). So Qi is there, "I" tune my mind intent to it and then exercise that capacity to "move it" and work with it. But in this same vein, what am I moving? Is there something to move? Or is it my awareness and intention/attention that are moving? That's more consistent with what I feel.

 

So my ideas are mine alone. I don't claim that they are "correct" but they have worked for me and are consistent with what research I have done. I think that my teacher discourages reading, studying, and unnecessary discussion of Qi and philosophy and theory for a very good reason. All of the theory and intellectual analysis do absolutely nothing to help one experience it and develop clarity and skill in working with it. On the other hand, they do create certain expectations and biases that can be a significant obstacle to a more pure and "naive" experience, which I think is much more valuable than mere understanding. An hour spent cultivating will take you further in your cultivation than a half hour cultivating and a half hour reading or discussing it.

 

I find there to be so much inaccurate stuff in books and on the web about Qi that I'm hoping this gives a different perspective.

Again, just my $.02, it's quite possible that I have no idea what I'm talking about!

And that's fine too.

 

 

Wow, Steve! Thank you for all that! What you write is REALLY helpful.

 

Your take on it resonates strongly with my experience. "Tuning," learning to shift perception to sensing/feeling the qi sensation and tracking it, learning (hardest part for me) to stay focused on qi sensation and avoiding the intrusion of monkey mind... The sensation of qi gets stronger over time, and then some other part is learning to get "handholds" on the sensation of qi and move it. I don't do this much yet, as the qi seems to have its own agenda, and it feels right to allow that agenda, rather than letting my mind impose some other. All I can really do is show up for practice and pay the best attention I can with whatever part of me does this sensing and tracking.

 

The qi feels stronger the more my awareness accompanies its movement. It seems to be clearing out channels in my body, like water cleaning out clogged streams, so the flow is faster and/or bigger and not so much slowed by random flotsam. You are so right that this is very hard to wrap words on!

 

I haven't sensed yet that the qi is storing, more like it has increased organizing capacity, like if you could get all your muscle fibers to concentrate efficiently on one action at the same time, how much stronger you would seem, but more because your capacity is organized. Making any sense?

 

Happy (delighted actually!) to read any more comments you care to add on the subject. Thank you!

 

cheya

Edited December 28, 2014 by cheya

[Ish]

IME certainly chi can be built/stored. Example; practicing zhan zhuang/dan tian breathing/meditation, afterwards I can feel chi stored inside the abdominal cavity. Practing day after day and the dan tian area feels more stable internally, can feel some slight "fullness", although completely different to eating too much, as this is very comfortable. When i went through a reasonbly long period without practicing this became less.

Another example is i can feel "spheres" of energy at my palm centre at all times, it doesnt go away no matter the situation. They built up from practicing a qi gong method that focuses energy at the palms among other benefits .

 

Certainly, letting go, aligning with energy and becoming more and more aware increases your ability to build and flow chi.