The Chinese Difinition of Chi Kung

[ChiDragon]

Ref: 氣功（炁功） vs Chi Kung

 

氣功（炁功）是透過以呼吸[1]的調整、身體活動的調整和意識[2]的調整（調息，調形，調心）為鍛煉方法，務求達到強身健體、健康身心、抗病延年、開發潛能等目的。

 

Chi Kung are to go through the adjustment of breathing, the adjustment of the body activity and the intend of the mind(breathing, physical, mind) as the fundamental for cultivation. The goal is to enhance the health of the body, mental health, immune system, brings out the ultimate potential of the human body.

 

 

氣功的種類繁多，主要可分為動功和靜功。動功是指以身體的活動為主的氣功，如導引派以動功為主，特點是強調與意氣相結合的肢體操作。而靜功是指身體不動，只靠意識、呼吸的自我控制來進行的氣功。大多氣功方法是動靜相間的。宗教中，道教的道士常會練習導引、內丹術氣功，佛教裡的禪定、靜坐也包含氣功。

 

There are many types of Chi Kung, primarily, it can be differentiated with Dynamic and Static Chi Kung. The Dynamic Chi Kung is mainly involved with body movements, especially, emphasized on the body exercise with the combination of Yi(mind) and Chi(breathing). The Static Chi Kung is not involving with any body movement; only emphasizing on the Yi(mind) and self regulating and control of the breathing(Chi). Many methods of Chi Kung are involved in between both dynamically and statically. Religiously, Taoist practice 導引, nei dan alchemical Chi King. Buddhism practice Zen and zazen which involves Chi Kung.

 

Please notice that there is no mention of Chi as "energy", here, in the Chinese literature.

[RiverSnake]

Hmm... i was talking to some Asian people at the park whom i saw doing the 8 brocades and Tai Chi.

 

I told them i do Chi-Gung and they said they Pray also. I thought that they referred to chi-gung as "prayer" was very interesting.

 

I think there is a cultural gap in how the west east view the esoteric arts.

[Green Tiger]

Although, I can't read chinese, that page appears to be flagged for review. In any case, wikipedia is not what I would consider the definitive source to go to on any topic, in any language.

[ChiDragon]

Although, I can't read chinese, that page appears to be flagged for review. In any case, wikipedia is not what I would consider the definitive source to go to on any topic, in any language.

Please don't close your door because it is wikipedia or a different language. There are lot of good information in them. I know you don't read Chinese, that's why I had translated into English.

 

It is something to be considered here. I practice Tai Chi and Chi Kung based on the concepts specified here. It was the original concept on Chi Kung. You cannot read any material about Chi Kung without a mention of breathing as a fundamental factor.

[johndoe2012]

Edited December 11, 2011 by chris d

[ChiDragon]

ChiDragon, does it matter which view one has in practising?

 

In breathing one has to let go, so this cannot be forced. It comes on its own. I have had bad experiences with methods that regulate breathing, .

 

Personally, I resonate more with Ya Mu's definition of qigong and it does not involve breathing.

Did you know if there is no breathing involvement, then it was not considered to be Chi Kung. ..??? This is the message I'm trying to bring across.

 

You have had bad experiences with methods that regulate breathing, because you did not do it right and that's why people take Chi Kung lessons to improve their breathing. To be honest with you, if one has no improvement in breathing, then there is no health improvement as one of the claims by the art of Chi Kung.

[johndoe2012]

Edited December 11, 2011 by chris d

[ChiDragon]

ok, but do you have a source using the word Chi Kung prior to the Communist started used it as an umbrealla term for movement and static methods - some times original Daoist methods, sometimes not.

 

This thread reminds me of Stigwaerd's thread where some scholar tried to define what Daoism is

 

It is too difficult to cite a Chinese website to someone that cannot read the language. To translate it, then something gets lost in the translation.

 

吐納(tu3 na4) was the original Chinese term for the practice of Chi Kung.

 

Anyway, shall we stay within the discussion of the method rather than looking into its history...???

[dawei]

Personally, I resonate more with Ya Mu's definition of qigong and it does not involve breathing.

Can you share that definition?

[dawei]

吐納(tu3 na4) was the original Chinese term for the practice of Chi Kung.

 

Anyway, shall we stay within the discussion of the method rather than looking into its history...???

To be fair, you pulled in history and then want nobody to comment?

 

That is one of a few words used; there is no single word.

 

But we can go back further than words by looking at archaeology and we know that at a minimum, movement meditation and breath were two important parts.

 

 

 

CHinese Medical Qigong By Beijing University of Chinese Medicine, Qigong Research Laboratories:

The skill of body-mind exercise that integrates body, breath and mind adjustments into ONE.

 

They cite a passage from the Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine as having a passage which best fits this.

Edited August 7, 2011 by dawei

[ChiDragon]

It is too difficult to cite a Chinese website to someone that cannot read the language. To translate it, then something gets lost in the translation.

吐納(tu3 na4) was the original Chinese term for the practice of Chi Kung.

 

Anyway, shall we stay within the discussion of the method rather than looking into its history...???

 

Please read my original post.

 

BTW If you haven't sensed that the intention of this thread was to tell the Chinese side of the story, then I'm so sorry. However, if the westerner stories are going to be presented here again, then it would be defeated to whole purpose of this thread.

Edited August 7, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

[ChiDragon]

dawei....

 

My reference:

氣功（炁功）是透過以呼吸[1]的調整、身體活動的調整和意識[2]的調整（調息，調形，調心）為鍛煉方法，務求達到強身健體、健康身心、抗病延年、開發潛能等目的。

 

Chi Kung are to go through the adjustment of breathing, the adjustment of the body activity and the intend of the mind(breathing, physical, mind) as the fundamental for cultivation. The goal is to enhance the health of the body, mental health, immune system, brings out the ultimate potential of the human body.

Your reference:

In summary, Qi Gong takes "body regulation", "breath regulation", and "mind regulation" as its three key components. Qi Gong emphasizes the cultivation and the harmony of human beings with the nature,

 

Thank you. Since have you a good Chinese source, it would be a good idea to use them to be compared with the understanding of the western Chi Kung practitioners.

Edited August 7, 2011 by ChiDragon

[mjjbecker]

How the term 'qigong' came to be adopted is detailed in the book 'Qigong Fever' by David A. Palmer-no need to go and learn how to read Chinese. The term 'qigong' was picked as a catch-all term for the various different traditional methods and schools that existed. These consist of a myriad of different methods.

 

Does 'qigong' have to be a 'breathing method'? No. Hu Yao Zhen's practices are not based around conscious control of breathing, but breathing does change as a result of practice. One should not put the cart in front of the horse.

 

I reference Hu as he was one of the key leaders in popularising qigong. I would also note that those who have passed down his teachings use the term 'neigong' rather than 'qigong'. Various traditional schools use their own specific terms still. Qigong simply provides a useful umbrella term. Just like running is part of athletics, neigong is part of qigong.

 

If a person actually wants to gain true understanding, they would be better off not using the term qigong, and instead should look to and understand the traditional terms. Qigong is too vague, too general, and is not used by top level masters I have met.

 

It would be fair to say that specific breathing methods are a part of the majority of qigong methods and so in general you could say it is a requirement. It is important to be aware though that it is not an absolute requirement of every school.

[ChiDragon]

...., but breathing does change as a result of practice.

 

Please just don't forget to neglect this unimportant fact. It says it all.

 

 

PS...

The more we learn, the less we know.

Edited August 7, 2011 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

1. How the term 'qigong' came to be adopted is detailed in the book 'Qigong Fever' by David A. Palmer-no need to go and learn how to read Chinese. The term 'qigong' was picked as a catch-all term for the various different traditional methods and schools that existed. These consist of a myriad of different methods.

 

2. Does 'qigong' have to be a 'breathing method'? No. Hu Yao Zhen's practices are not based around conscious control of breathing, but breathing does change as a result of practice. One should not put the cart in front of the horse.

 

3. I reference Hu as he was one of the key leaders in popularising qigong. I would also note that those who have passed down his teachings use the term 'neigong' rather than 'qigong'. Various traditional schools use their own specific terms still. Qigong simply provides a useful umbrella term. Just like running is part of athletics, neigong is part of qigong.

 

4. If a person actually wants to gain true understanding, they would be better off not using the term qigong, and instead should look to and understand the traditional terms. Qigong is too vague, too general, and is not used by top level masters I have met.

 

5. It would be fair to say that specific breathing methods are a part of the majority of qigong methods and so in general you could say it is a requirement. It is important to be aware though that it is not an absolute requirement of every school.

1. That's where you had it all wrong due to the lack of understanding of the language and depends on some misfed information. Please read dawei's post above.

 

2. Needless to say.

 

3. Neigong simply means internal practice. Any breathing exercise was consider to be neigong. By the Chinese definition, Qigong is a breathing exercise, thus Qigong is part of Neigong. In general, it's not the other way around.

 

4. Qigong is too vague, too general, and is not used by top level masters I have met. That was the only way you were taught. Yes, you didn't learned from the tradition way. Somebody had reinvented the wheel for you and misinformed you.

 

5.This is not a very good general statement. BTW all martial arts depends on breathing, but Qigong was emphasized on slow and deep breathing.

 

 

Happy Qigong or Chi Kung breathing....

Edited August 7, 2011 by ChiDragon

[relaxer]

 

Happy Qigong or Chi Kung breathing....

 

 

Yes, all action can be related to breath. It is the nature of existence. But, in learning to brush your teeth, is it necessary to regulate and focus on breath? No. It might help later on, but it's not necessary. Language is approximation.

 

ChiDragon, are you saying that a new word should be invented for this western approach or are you discrediting all practices that don't focus solely on breath regulation for development?

 

What's your intent? If it's inventing a new word, let's do it and be done with the semantics. It might just be me, but I find it a pretty boring back and forth.

[mjjbecker]

Ah, life is too short...

Edited August 7, 2011 by mjjbecker

[Aetherous]

Did you know if there is no breathing involvement, then it was not considered to be Chi Kung. ..??? This is the message I'm trying to bring across.

 

It's not a good or truthful message. Qigong can also be body movements or mind exercises. It doesn't have to be all three at once. And if a method causes changes in the breath, without being a breathing practice, then it still counts.

 

So I don't see the point of this thread at all.

[mjjbecker]

See the attached screen print.

 

From 'Qigong Fever: body, science and utopia in China by David A. Palmer.

 

Introduction, page 8:

 

"It was only in 1949 that qigong became a global category which aimed to include all Chinese breathing, meditation and gymnastic techniques."

[ChiDragon]

It's not a good or truthful message. Qigong can also be body movements or mind exercises. It doesn't have to be all three at once. And if a method causes changes in the breath, without being a breathing practice, then it still counts.

 

So I don't see the point of this thread at all.

 

Qigong are mainly breathing with the body movements and mind exercises know as Dynamic Qigong. However, the last two exercises are optional. e.g. Sitting Qigong was mainly breathing without body movements or mind exercises.

 

 

PS...

This thread is necessary to clarify some of the misconceptions and misunderstanding about Qigong once and for all. One can assume what it was any way s/he wants, of course, with many fallacies.

[mjjbecker]

You cannot read any material about Chi Kung without a mention of breathing as a fundamental factor.

 

You've clearly not read Grandmaster Feng Zhi Qiang's book on the subject then. Let me quote:

 

"Forget about breathing. You will breath naturally."

 

Now, just in case you are tempted to further claim I don't understand, let me point some things out to you. I live in China, and have done for several years. I have also been personally instructed in Hunyuan neigong by two members of Grandmaster Feng's family as well as a personal student. I am very clear in my understanding in regards to breathing using this method,( there is non, beyond natural breathing) and I am quite sure my teachers have not deliberately mislead me, or that I have misunderstood them.

 

I will go further and say there are few men alive more respected that Grandmaster Feng on the subject of taijiquan or qigong. Grandmaster Feng's qigong teacher, Hu Yao Zhen, was one of the most revered masters of the 20th century.

 

You are simply wrong, but by all means keep on digging...

Edited August 7, 2011 by mjjbecker

[ChiDragon]

See the attached screen print.

 

From 'Qigong Fever: body, science and utopia in China by David A. Palmer.

 

Introduction, page 8:

 

"It was only in 1949 that qigong became a global category which aimed to include all Chinese breathing, meditation and gymnastic techniques."

氣功 was know to the Chinese civilization for more than two centuries. It was introduced to the other parts of the world in 1949. Qigong was only the phonetics in pronouncing these two characters. FYI It's real meaning means breathing exercise. But somebody translated that "qi" as "energy". That was why the notion of qi as energy took off like mad. Then, the people in the world start imaging what they thought it was and created many fancy names and write books about it to make lots of money with misconceptions and misleading information.

Edited August 7, 2011 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

You've clearly not read Grandmaster Feng Zhi Qiang's book on the subject then. Let me quote:

 

"Forget about breathing. You will breath naturally."

 

Now, just in case you are tempted to further claim I don't understand, let me point some things out to you. I live in China, and have done for several years. I have also been personally instructed in Hunyuan neigong by two members of Grandmaster Feng's family as well as a personal student. I am very clear in my understanding in regards to breathing using this method,( there is non, beyond natural breathing) and I am quite sure my teachers have not deliberately mislead me, or that I have misunderstood them.

 

I will go further and say there are few men alive more respected that Grandmaster Feng on the subject of taijiquan or qigong. Grandmaster Feng's qigong teacher, Hu Yao Zhen, was one of the most revered masters of the 20th century.

 

You are simply wrong, but by all means keep on digging...

"Forget about breathing. You will breath naturally."

The practice of natural breathing was very true for a novice. As one progresses in the practice, at higher level, the breathing will be deeper and deeper. You may do natural breathing and stay at the amateur level if you want.

Edited August 7, 2011 by ChiDragon

[doc benway]

I think part of the issue is that we are discussing a very wide spectrum of practices from myriad different styles and traditions.

 

In general, what we refer to as Qi Gong includes body movement, breathing, and mind intent. In it's broadest sense, this could be considered to included Taijiquan forms and Daoist meditation practices in addition to what we normally would consider Qi Gong and Nei Gong.

 

Some forms and traditions use little or no body movements and these are often referred to separately as Nei Gong but some teachers continue to categorize these methods as Qi Gong, particularly if specific breathing patterns are emphasized.

If there is no physical movement and breathing is not specifically predetermined, we are more in the realm of meditative practices.

 

Some emphasize specific breathing patterns and others de-emphasize breathing in order to achieve natural, unforced breathing. Even when specific breathing patterns are not emphasized, breathing is clearly involved and important and over time will develop in several ways - some obvious and some more subtle.

 

Some techniques focus more on mental manipulations and use of mind intent whereas others de-emphasize this and allow the mind to naturally begin to sense and recognize what is going on internally without setting any preconceived notions or expectations.

 

It's sort of foolish for us to bicker over definitions because there are so many variations.

There may be officially sanctioned definitions but what does that matter?

If a practice is beneficial and follows basic principles, why try and force it into a definition.

Once you learn the basic principles and develop skill, there's no reason not to develop new forms.

A knowledgable practitioner can do this very easily.

 

It's certainly true that there was a relatively recent explosion of Qi Gong related activity, most of which has been developed by opportunists looking to profit from its popularity. Some of these forms make no sense at all. Unless you have some experience and a foundation in traditional methods it's difficult to know how "traditional" and credible many forms are, whether you live in China or elsewhere.