The Chinese Difinition of Chi Kung

[Baguakid]

Now, I know why the Western Qigong practitioners say breathing is not necessarily associated with "Qigong"

 

I really don't think you do.

[ChiDragon]

 

The Beijing University of Chinese Medicine, Dept of Qigong says:

外功 - External Qigong stresses movement [in self practice].

外功 - Qigong to strengthen the muscles, tendons and bones in the 'separating form' and the 'joining form'. The best known dynamic style is the Muscle/Tendon Classic.

 

They further note that the "external" involves the ability to do "Qi emission and transmission" to "direct, harmonize, and treat an illness".

 

My question to you is as follows:

1. Is your practice external as defined above?

2. Has that practice included Muscle/Tendon, Bone Marrow, or Iron Shirt practices?

3. Has that practice included Qi emission and transmission to harmonize or treat an illness in another person?

 

I will let this stand as a Level 1,2,3 for External Qigong. The problem is that it does require Internal Qigong to achieve level 2 or 3.

 

I offer the following categories of Qigong, but this is a chinese source:

1. Scholar Qigong - for maintain health

2. Medical Qigong - for health and healing, including others; emission and transmission to others for healing

3. Martial Qigong - for fighting

4. Religious Qigong - Enlightenment or Buddhahood

5. Buddha Qigong - for Buddhahood

6. Tibetan Qigong - for Buddhahood

7. Daoist Qigong - for Enlightenment

 

I think you are a "scholar qigong" follower; what we can find in regards to even Confucius or Mozi.

 

In fact, I think "Energy" work itself goes way beyond this... and I have see some aspects of this beyond.

 

All the above are not my expectations. Also, the terminology used here are very strange to me.

 

Except I can answer this one:

1. Is your practice external as defined above?

My answer is yes only, and only if, with the word "Qigong" crossed out as indicated.

[dawei]

Now, I know why the Western Qigong practitioners say breathing is not necessarily associated with "Qigong"

I think you still miss the whole point being made. It is not that breathing is not necessarily associated with Qigong.

 

It has it's important place and function... and then there is "beyond breathing".

 

That is the entire point I was making which you overlook. Your stuck in breathing alone and I think that is what many have been saying but I don't want to speak for others.

[dawei]

All the above are not my expectations. Also, the terminology used here are very strange to me.

 

Except I can answer this one:

1. Is your practice external as defined above?

My answer is yes only, and only if, with the word "Qigong" crossed out as indicated.

Thanks for being honest but it does not surprise me. For someone who has invented their own Qigong from TaiJi, there would be no need to consider such definitions as standards. And you said you don't use visualization as it "distracts" you. So you cannot visualize the ideas presented from chinese documents.

[ChiDragon]

OK. I made an error in my last statement.

Let me rephrase:

Now, I know why the Western Qigong practitioners say breathing is not necessarily associated with "Qigong" in few cases.

[Baguakid]

OK. I made an error in my last statement.

Let me rephrase:

Now, I know why the Western Qigong practitioners say breathing is not necessarily associated with "Qigong" in few cases.

 

Why?

[dawei]

D. 外功 to me is external practice; External Qigong means 外氣功 which makes no sense to a Chinese speaker.

External practice of what????

 

You cannot visualize the concept to an application?

 

There is a lot more problems here than just word translation going on. You don't get concepts on some level, even when in chinese characters. This is the accepted terminology by chinese authors. I now realize you have not read any of this but want to speak out against it.

[dawei]

All the above are not my expectations. Also, the terminology used here are very strange to me.

Because you have never studied Qigong document or teaching?

 

I am now under the impression that chinese have translated a lot of writings on this in the hopes that the west would understand since their own will not even read it.

 

You can read one book alone for this: Yang Ywing-Ming, Qigong Meditation - Embryonic Breathing. There are countless ancient documents translated. Once one reads this book, there is no doubt that Qi is "beyond breathing".

[ChiDragon]

Thanks for being honest but it does not surprise me.

 

1. For someone who has invented their own Qigong from TaiJi, there would be no need to consider such definitions as standards.

 

2. And you said you don't use visualization as it "distracts" you.

 

3. So you cannot visualize the ideas presented from chinese documents.

1. Tai Ji is a form of Chi Kung. Do we agree with this or not...???

If not, don't worry about it. If yes, then I did not reinvent anything. You just didn't give me a chance to finish my story then jump to your own conclusion.

 

2. Are you still hung up on that...???

 

3. I love your accusations, it's kind of giving me a jolt toward enlightenment and to keep me alert.

 

I do appreciate your last statement; but I wonder how did you get that idea...???

Are you trying to twist things around again as always. We say 外功 is external practice but not 外氣功(External Qigong). It was the English terms that you gave me threw me off.

Edited August 9, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

I do appreciate your last statement; but I wonder how did you get that idea...???

Are you trying to twist things around again as always. We say 外功 is external practice but not 外氣功(External Qigong). It was the English terms that you gave me threw me off.

you did not get the english; then did not get the chinese; then told another they do this as always.

 

your shtick is growing old on me. Have your fun, I am done with this one.

[ChiDragon]

you did not get the english; then did not get the chinese; then told another they do this as always.

 

your shtick is growing old on me. Have your fun, I am done with this one.

 

I'll say it was not a language problem but a personal one.

Edited August 9, 2011 by ChiDragon

[寒月 Hanyue]

Have your fun, I am done with this one.

 

Dawei, you should be commended for your posts, efforts, and approach to this thread.

 

All the best,

Edited August 9, 2011 by snowmonki

[ChiDragon]

OK. I made an error in my last statement.

Let me rephrase:

Now, I know why the Western Qigong practitioners say breathing is not necessarily associated with "Qigong" in few cases.

 

Why?

 

I was just repeating what you guys had said. I've found out why you guys said that. It was the terminology you guys had taught differently. It doesn't matter what, I see the word "Qigong" was in every term which causing some confusion.

[ChiDragon]

Dawei, you should be commended for your posts, efforts, and approach to this thread.

 

All the best,

Yes, me too. Too bad he gave up with some unanswered questions.

[Baguakid]

I was just repeating what you guys had said. I've found out why you guys said that. It was the terminology you guys had taught differently. It doesn't matter what, I see the word "Qigong" was in every term which causing some confusion.

No, it's not terminology. It's your lack of exposure to non-breath based systems.

[ChiDragon]

No, it's not terminology. It's your lack of exposure to non-breath based systems.

OK. This is my understanding. I said all forms of Chi Kung involve with breathing. I think someone disagree with that in the first place. Am I correct on this...???

Edited August 9, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Aetherous]

[Baguakid]

OK. This is my understanding. I said all forms of Chi Kung involve with breathing.

 

Yes, this IS INCORRECT.. HOW MANY TIMES MUST IT BE SAID?

[ChiDragon]

Yes, this IS INCORRECT.. HOW MANY TIMES MUST IT BE SAID?

Yes, I am lack of exposure to non-breath based system. It was because I am only interested in the breathing system like Chi Kung. Chi Kung is more advantageous over the non-breath system. Non-breath system is for one with a good physical body as opposed to a weaker person. A weaker person may have some illnesses and need to be cured or need improvement for a better physical fitness. Besides, Chi Kung will also cover the benefits of the non-breathing system. It might take a little time. That' all.

 

PS...

I didn't know that was our original argument.

 

I like that, Scotty. That was real cute...

Edited August 9, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Baguakid]

Yes, I am lack of exposure to non-breath based system. It was because I am only interested in the breathing system like Chi Kung. Chi Kung is more advantageous over the non-breath system. Non-breath system is for one with a good physical body as opposed to a weaker person. A weaker person may have some illnesses and need to be cured or need improvement for a better physical fitness. Besides, Chi Kung will also cover the benefits of the non-breathing system. It might take a little time. That' all.

 

That's your uneducated OPINION my friend. You know absolutely nothing about what you speak. Your mind is narrow and you have strong opinions about that narrow scope. The problem with this is you're teaching others the same erroneous doctrine.

[ChiDragon]

I see.............

 

Perhaps, it is better to close this discussion with an open mind one way or the other.....

Edited August 9, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

Dawei, you should be commended for your posts, efforts, and approach to this thread.

 

All the best,

 

But as you can see, even he knows someone will go he takes one more parting shot

 

I thank a few who tried to share the broader picture of Qigong.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[ChiDragon]

1.I was refering to people who call themselves Qigong Healers and sending and absorb

Qi through the palms.

 

2.Breathing and movement you put your awareness. What exactly do you try to achieve by putting the awareness on breath and movement?

 

3.Tai Chi Chuan is a martial Art as well. To make a Push a Push one has to Push

but if you not know what you push how can you push?

 

4+5. They belong together. Breath work,slow movement,correct biomechanics and breathing can be done with callinestics, aerobic workout, western boxing etc. From this standpoint they would be "Western Method". But what is the difference between Tai Chi/Qigong compared to this Western Method.

 

Q

 

First of all, thank you for clearing all the mist in the air. I appreciate that...

 

1. It was beyond my level of understand because I am not there yet. It is not my ultimate goal for the time being.

 

2. Breathing and slow movements are the principle exercises that will effect the physical structure of the human body; breathing will help to enhance the body to function internally and slow movements will help to build up the muscle tone and exercise all the muscles and joints. The slowness of the movements was to apply stresses to the muscles slowly to prevent damaging the tissues and the joints. Especially, those who have not been exercising for awhile. In addition, the slowness will increase the reflexes of the arms and legs, of course, after a long period of practice.

 

3. Normally, push hand requires two persons to practice; but still, one person can be practiced by just going through the push hand movements.

 

4+5. The Western Methods tend to consume lots of body energy, at a faster rate, while doing the exercise. The breathing rate was much faster. Thus all the oxygen, in the lungs, did not stay long enough to allow the red blood cells to be collected. Some of the unused portion will be exhaled too soon. While all the body energy have being consumed, there was not enough oxygen for the body cells to generate the energy quick enough for the muscles to be used for contraction.

 

There is a special method was used, in Chi Kung, called the abdominal breathing. What it does was to increase the volume of the lung to allow more air to be stored while doing slow and deep breathing. While the oxygen was being used to generate the body energy, the body was not consuming much energy due the slow movements. Thus the body has more energy readily available to be used.

 

In summary, the western method consumes more energy and cause hypoxia. The abdominal breathing and slow movements in Chi Kung allow the body cells to generate more energy than the body was consumed. That is why a Chi Kung practitioner does not get fatigue quickly. Indeed, the major difference between the Western Method and Chi Kung can be shown by the fact that a boxer gets fatigue after practice, while the Chi Kung practitioner is more energetic.

Edited August 9, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend