Surrender; That's what is.

[InfinityTruth]

Hello InfiniteTruth,

 

"We admitted we were powerless over alcohol- that our lives had become unmanageable." Many people read this step and believe that alcohol made their lives unmanageable, but what I came to understand was that my life was unmanageable because I tried to manage it. I had to give up control, surrender to a higher power, in my case the notion of love/compassion/etc. Once I stopped trying to control things I had no control over and just witnessed those things, let them come and go, did what I could and accepted the rest, then life became much easier for me. Ironically it takes reaching a bottom for most people to understand this and I think that's what you had, your bottom. It is completely liberating, but I would just give you a friendly piece of advice, the realization will bring you a high, as you've mentioned, but inevitably you will have to face life's problems and in order to do that you have to get to a point where you can live life on life's terms. That's the hard part, but surrendering is the first step to learning to do this. I wish you well and I hope that things work out for you. If you need to talk, I'm always here to listen, just send me a tell.

 

Aaron

 

It was such an amazing feeling. So freeing. I would agree the problem comes from 'trying' to control. Good advice at the end and a nice warning. I was definitely high off of the feeling. I came down and I feel like I lost it completely yesterday, but now I'm just feeling normal.

 

I guess I will just have to agree to live life on life's terms instead of my own. Those words in itself make me feel like I'm surrendering my need to control my circumstances.

[InfinityTruth]

That's what is, man. Surrender to being depressed for a while...surrender to not bad, not great.

 

These things are much easier than surrendering to a bear mauling you to death.

 

Haha, very good insight. Thank you.

 

EDIT: I forgot to surrender the fact that I'm out of control of emotional stuff too. I basically forgot to surrender to the whole.

 

I fragmented the surrender to certain stuff.

Edited August 14, 2011 by InfinityTruth

[InfinityTruth]

It occurs to me that perhaps the reason I have such difficulty with "surrender" and "letting go" is because I haven't grokked what it is that I'm "surrendering" and "letting go."

 

Something to chew on for me...

Pretty much surrender to everything that pisses you off in life or makes you feel out of control. Give up all of the struggle if possible. If you can't, don't force it.

 

Then you give up the desire to force it.

 

EDIT: Surrender to the whole.

Edited August 14, 2011 by InfinityTruth

[Birch]

Well, yesterday I lost it. Pretty depressing towards the end of the day. Today just feels pretty much like a normal day. Not bad, not great. Don't think it's with me right now though.

 

God I was so care-free 2 days ago.

 

How do I truly give up? It was so easy now it seems harder not to interfere.

It's because once you think you know how to do it then you'll try to do it. Trying is the thing you'd given up. Well I guess that's what happens. So you let go again.

[InfinityTruth]

It's because once you think you know how to do it then you'll try to do it. Trying is the thing you'd given up. Well I guess that's what happens. So you let go again.

 

Yeah, I noticed that when I was writing one of my posts. I used the word 'trying'. I deleted that shit the moment I saw it.

 

I still didn't let go of the need to try though.

 

EDIT: Yep, in one of my post I caught it and used 'seeing' instead of try. I just replaced that devil's word thinking it would mean something different like that. My subconscious is a tricky little devil.

Edited August 14, 2011 by InfinityTruth

[InfinityTruth]

Very good idea. I freakin lost it yesterday completely. It was like the insight was just more of a high, but I don't think so. I'll keep seeing if I can find it. It was too amazing to just give up.

 

Wow, I did not realize the attachment in that post.

[C T]

What you have effectively achieved is you have given yourself a day pass to freedom. A fractionated taste, a glimpse, into the unconditionable nature of mind.

 

Sustaining this thru familiarization is the next step.

 

The key is to be as mindful and present as possible, without needing to cling to this new found tool of surrender. Surrendering is good as a bridge to cross the raging rivers of emotional turmoil, yet its not so good when things are quite calm and collected. What do you do when things are flowing along smoothly? When positive fruits starts to bloom in your garden, are you going to surrender them too?

 

In my experience, surrendering is a fetter, not surrendering is also a fetter.

 

Which is why i like the idea of Impermanence... in this realization, there is nothing to grasp, and nothing to reject. Here i am speaking of states of mind that arises, and mindfully looked at, without any stickiness involved.

 

Some people tend to take this concept completely out of context. This is where some issues may sneak themselves stealthily in the door. If understood thoroughly thru personal investigations into its efficacious nature (concept of Impermanence), such issues will never arise.

 

Three useful links here that may contain some relevant tips to further your journey - -

http://www.purifymind.com/ConImpermanence.htm

http://www.thebuddhadharma.com/web-archive/2003/12/1/fully-engaged-in-body-speech-and-mind.html

http://bdtest1.squarespace.com/web-archive/2011/5/16/beyond-all-attachment.html

 

If you have any aversions to Buddhist teachings, then i apologize. If not, these contemplative words may yield some valuable insights.

 

Wishing you continual inspirations!

Edited August 14, 2011 by CowTao

[Birch]

Wow, I did not realize the attachment in that post.

It doesn't matter:-)

 

May I suggest being careful in your attempts to un-attach?. IME it can get pretty obsessive;-) Whole religions get born that way :-p

As to the "subconscious" well, there you are, it's not anymore:-)

[InfinityTruth]

What you have effectively achieved is you have given yourself a day pass to freedom. A fractionated taste, a glimpse, into the unconditionable nature of mind.

 

Sustaining this thru familiarization is the next step.

 

The key is to be as mindful and present as possible, without needing to cling to this new found tool of surrender. Surrendering is good as a bridge to cross the raging rivers of emotional turmoil, yet its not so good when things are quite calm and collected. What do you do when things are flowing along smoothly? When positive fruits starts to bloom in your garden, are you going to surrender them too?

 

In my experience, surrendering is a fetter, not surrendering is also a fetter.

 

Which is why i like the idea of Impermanence... in this realization, there is nothing to grasp, and nothing to reject. Here i am speaking of states of mind that arises, and mindfully looked at, without any stickiness involved.

 

Some people tend to take this concept completely out of context. This is where some issues may sneak themselves stealthily in the door. If understood thoroughly thru personal investigations into its efficacious nature (concept of Impermanence), such issues will never arise.

 

Three useful links here that may contain some relevant tips to further your journey - -

http://www.purifymind.com/ConImpermanence.htm

http://www.thebuddhadharma.com/web-archive/2003/12/1/fully-engaged-in-body-speech-and-mind.html

http://bdtest1.squarespace.com/web-archive/2011/5/16/beyond-all-attachment.html

 

If you have any aversions to Buddhist teachings, then i apologize. If not, these contemplative words may yield some valuable insights.

 

Wishing you continual inspirations!

 

Hmmmmm, looking at it from the state of impermanence. I could give it a try. I will continue to work with it and see what I discover, and post my findings as I get them. This is only the beginning. There was something very special about that place I was in.

 

I don't have too much aversion to buddhist teachings. I actually find that zen teachings help me better than what I've been able to do with Taoism(Zen seems more organized to me and that helps big time). Still I stay on the forum because I really enjoy this place.

 

The only thing I completely disagree with in buddhism is refering to the dalai lama as a holy man or 'his holiness'. I cringed so bad when I heard that. I will not nor will I ever worship any man as holy and above everyone else.

 

For such a 'compassionate' being he has a lot of arrogance to allow people to call him that.

[InfinityTruth]

"If you wish to see the truth

then hold no opinions for or against anything.

To set up what you like against what you dislike

is the disease of the mind."

 

-3rd Zen Patriarch

 

I feel like this type of mindframe is almost exactly what I experienced. Thank you. I think I can pinpoint it better now what I experienced.

 

Like at that time, if I got my hand cut off. That's what is. My like or dislike of that has no root in truth.

 

In fact it has very little point. If I dislike it, I will suffer, but I can't change it, so no matter what I'm forced to suffer from this event unless I rid myself of dislikes and while I'm at it I might as well rid myself of likes so that I'm not bound to my dislikes.

 

I think the problem was that I still had a slant for things that I liked, and that probably threw off the whole practice.

 

I will practice having no preference and no dislike.

Edited August 14, 2011 by InfinityTruth

[Raz]

[Birch]

Well of course it's not "there" because it's "here", i.e. whatever's doin the lookin.

Can I suggest this "looking for self" thing is the "looking for the stories about yourself" thing?

I think before going all the way And jumping all those streams And rivers, one might think "ah, those stories I told myself about myself, which ones were true?"

[Raz]

[C T]

[Raz]

Just curious... is there any particular reason you picked 'ribs'? Since you are talking about directing attention with love, why not pick 'ice-cream', or 'double espresso', or 'sticky toffee pudding'?

 

As just like ribs, you find it within

[C T]

As just like ribs, you find it within

Ah! I now see where you are coming from... within! This makes it clearer.

 

Domo arigato.

[Bluefront]

Very good idea. I freakin lost it yesterday completely. It was like the insight was just more of a high, but I don't think so. I'll keep seeing if I can find it. It was too amazing to just give up.

 

I would say searching is the opposite of surrender, so good luck!

[Marblehead]

Have Y'all surrendered yet?

[suninmyeyes]

Yes and no.

[InfinityTruth]

It comes and goes as it pleases lately. At least I'm learning what it's about. The way I understand it as is 'surrender' or 'that's what is'. I try to think of it any other way, and it is not the way I first understood it or the same understanding.

 

I notice it comes back to me especially when I do meditation. Specifically longer meditations. I had it blast me nice and strong today. I'm going to start working more with longer meditations. I usually only do long meditations out in the woods, but I can usually lose my mind in that way.

[Otis]

It comes and goes as it pleases lately. At least I'm learning what it's about. The way I understand it as is 'surrender' or 'that's what is'. I try to think of it any other way, and it is not the way I first understood it or the same understanding.

 

I notice it comes back to me especially when I do meditation. Specifically longer meditations. I had it blast me nice and strong today. I'm going to start working more with longer meditations. I usually only do long meditations out in the woods, but I can usually lose my mind in that way.

Hi InfinityTruth,

 

This is all very familiar to me; it's a pattern I see in myself. Once I have emerged from clear flow/surrender, I feel arise a clinging need to go back to what I had.

 

With experience, I realize that it's impossible to go back. The moment that flow and I diverged, is a moment that is already over. The flow has moved on, and so I can't step back into where I was. Instead, I have to find the flow again, by re-connecting to it, wherever it is in this moment. Present flow is the only flow that can be interacted with. Memories of past flow only give rise to intellectual concepts. The only way to step back into the clarity of surrendering, is to surrender again. And not necessarily surrender to what I was surrendering to, last time I had the epiphany. But surrender to what is, right now, always. Just keep coming back to that.

 

And of course, that meant I had to surrender the desire to be in a specific state of mind. In fact, it suggested that no state of mind was wrong, but that all states need to be awake and mature, in order for the full unified self to really grow. So I no longer aim to achieve certain mental states, but rather, just tune to what is, and let my state be where it is.

 

I trust that every moment teaches me, if I empty myself before it. If I am willing to be its student. And not so much teaches my head, by serving me pithy lessons, but teaches my body and my emotions and my choices, by involving them in life.

 

That also means practicing no longer being in control, no longer being right, no longer being special or attractive or any of the other things that my fears crave for me to be. It means just being. When possible, not even naming the being, not justifying it, not coming up with rationales, scorecards or hierarchies. No more "what's real". No more "I know". Just empty, empty, empty.

 

And that includes not only getting rid of clinging, but of aversion, the other half of the problem.

 

So it's a lot of work. Fun work, because I get lighter, every time I surrender. But I also get heavier, every time I take a shortcut, whenever I am dishonest with myself. So my freedom is entirely based on my willingness to take responsibility for how I interact with the world and my own head, even as I surrender my control of that interaction and that head. It's a tough balance, and it takes a ton of practice, but I find it a very worthwhile path.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Otis

[InfinityTruth]

Hi InfinityTruth,

 

This is all very familiar to me; it's a pattern I see in myself. Once I have emerged from clear flow/surrender, I feel arise a clinging need to go back to what I had.

 

With experience, I realize that it's impossible to go back. The moment that flow and I diverged, is a moment that is already over. The flow has moved on, and so I can't step back into where I was. Instead, I have to find the flow again, by re-connecting to it, wherever it is in this moment. Present flow is the only flow that can be interacted with. Memories of past flow only give rise to intellectual concepts. The only way to step back into the clarity of surrendering, is to surrender again. And not necessarily surrender to what I was surrendering to, last time I had the epiphany. But surrender to what is, right now, always. Just keep coming back to that.

 

And of course, that meant I had to surrender the desire to be in a specific state of mind. In fact, it suggested that no state of mind was wrong, but that all states need to be awake and mature, in order for the full unified self to really grow. So I no longer aim to achieve certain mental states, but rather, just tune to what is, and let my state be where it is.

 

I trust that every moment teaches me, if I empty myself before it. If I am willing to be its student. And not so much teaches my head, by serving me pithy lessons, but teaches my body and my emotions and my choices, by involving them in life.

 

That also means practicing no longer being in control, no longer being right, no longer being special or attractive or any of the other things that my fears crave for me to be. It means just being. When possible, not even naming the being, not justifying it, not coming up with rationales, scorecards or hierarchies. No more "what's real". No more "I know". Just empty, empty, empty.

 

And that includes not only getting rid of clinging, but of aversion, the other half of the problem.

 

So it's a lot of work. Fun work, because I get lighter, every time I surrender. But I also get heavier, every time I take a shortcut, whenever I am dishonest with myself. So my freedom is entirely based on my willingness to take responsibility for how I interact with the world and my own head, even as I surrender my control of that interaction and that head. It's a tough balance, and it takes a ton of practice, but I find it a very worthwhile path.

 

Very nice post. I liked this a lot. Helped me to understand the practice of surrender better, something clicked while I was reading it.