How to recognize Chi

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Thought this would be a good topic in helping to grow this community exiled from their own land

 

 

So, there may be some questions about how to recognize Chi and Jing. I have some myself, for example, when your stretching and you feel that stuff shoot up your spine -- is that Jing?

 

1) And for Chi, a good test is to hold your palms close together but not touching -- the energy felt between them is Chi -- so says Waysun Liao in "Tai Chi Classics." Now when moving chi through your body, into the dantien, or compressing it in the dantien, what are some errors people can make in mistaking something else for chi; is it all chi?

 

2) The same in circulating chi through the microcosmic orbit. Is is possible to just be circulating Jing instead of Chi and what would be the differences during and after?

 

I've heard some say the MCO can be done very easily without years of experience, others say it takes a very high level of expertise and that most people are not doing real MCO.

[zerostao]

ime i have had qi feel like wind , elecrticity, water flow at different times.

i have also had pulses.

this energy you talk about beeing able to feel it between your palms,

i have seen between fingertips . sometimes even my fingertips and someone

elses, and they also saw it. one time it was very dramatic.

i think the mco is helping to convert jing to qi. for some it comes easier than for others.

 

very related imo

http://www.amazon.com/Body-Electric-Electromagnetism-Foundation-Life/dp/0688069711#reader_0688069711

[Enishi]

It's pretty easy to feel chi by using Robert Bruce's NEW system.

 

IMO that is only very weak level of chi however, one which is limited by the ego mind. After receiving Shaktipat, the level of experience made the "sensations" from NEW seem like a dim shadow by comparison.

[doc benway]

Thought this would be a good topic in helping to grow this community exiled from their own land

 

 

So, there may be some questions about how to recognize Chi and Jing. I have some myself, for example, when your stretching and you feel that stuff shoot up your spine -- is that Jing?

 

1) And for Chi, a good test is to hold your palms close together but not touching -- the energy felt between them is Chi -- so says Waysun Liao in "Tai Chi Classics." Now when moving chi through your body, into the dantien, or compressing it in the dantien, what are some errors people can make in mistaking something else for chi; is it all chi?

 

2) The same in circulating chi through the microcosmic orbit. Is is possible to just be circulating Jing instead of Chi and what would be the differences during and after?

 

I've heard some say the MCO can be done very easily without years of experience, others say it takes a very high level of expertise and that most people are not doing real MCO.

I'd be happy to chat a bit about Qi. This is all a result of my own practice. My understanding of Qi is my own alone and is little influenced by study or writings or anyone's ideas but my own. My current practices include, in order of importance:

Daoist meditation (崑崙仙蹤派)

Tai ji Quan

Qi Gong (I mainly practice Shi Ba Luo Han Gong, Gu Chan Ba Duan Jin, and Tai Ji Jian Shen Fa)

Xing Yi Quan

Ba Gua Zhang

 

I've read a fair amount about Tai Ji Quan, Xing Yi Quan, Zhan Zhuang, and Qi Gong and some about Daoist meditation but I honestly find that books have not taught me much or helped me to understand. On occasion, books act to validate my empiric experience and that is valuable in and of itself. The best example of this was The Tai Chi Boxing Chronicle by Kuo Lien Ying. I tried to read this book multiple times as my early Tai Ji Quan training progressed. I never really learned anything from it but as my skills increased through practice I gained progressive understand and recognition of what Master Kuo describes in his magnificent book. Same thing happened with the Tai Ji Classics. My Shifu has always stressed to me to not get bogged down with study and scholarship but just to practice and when it comes to this stuff he is 100% correct!

 

Jing 精 is usually translated as semen or sexual energy but it goes beyond that and connotes reproductive potential as well as energy inherent in the entire physical body, including many if not all of the living cells and tissues. I'm not an expert on Chinese medicine but there is pre and post natal Jing and each is described as having very specific properties and is associated with different organ systems and so on. Others can describe all this much better than I can. So the Jing is a component or aspect of the living body that is described as being energetic (as is everything in existence, according to most physicists).

 

Qi is usually written 氣 these days which is the equivalent character for air and breath. In the old Daoist texts it is often written 炁. I've seen some people brush this off as a trivial difference due to the age of the texts only but according to my Shifu there is a meaningful difference. Air (氣) contains Qi (炁) but they are not equivalent. I also think it is instructive to think of Qi (炁) as being distinct from air or breath (氣). This is because it is easy for us to feel and imagine air circulating through our lungs but this is not equivalent (though not too different) from imagining and feeling Qi circulating through our tissues.

 

I don't like the 'holding the hands together' method of learning to feel Qi flow. This is because it is very misleading in my experience and I believe that it gives people a false idea of what Qi is and what it is not. It is the root of fantastical imagination of masters exploding Qi from their hands and other supernatural things that are the stuff of myth and legend. Perhaps it is all true and real and maybe we will each see a convincing demonstration of it one day but it is not necessary, or even helpful, to develop a supernatural image or concept of Qi when first beginning to work with it. It is the most practical and universal thing possible to the Chinese mind. It is only mystical to those who don't look at it with the correct perspective.

 

I like to share how I first felt what I knew to be whatever it is that is described as Qi. And to me, I felt it strongest by far in the bottom of my pelvis in the region of the prostate gland. It has a sensation that is very similar to sexual sensation. If you sit quietly and pay attention to this area over time you may begin to feel as if you are sensing something stirring in that area. It may be a warmth, tingling, coolness, flowing, buzzing, whatever - you will eventually have some sensory awareness of that area. You can try it with other areas. I've been told by Livia Kohn that many women do better becoming aware of this sensation in the heart area between the breasts, I can feel it there very powerfully now but I didn't pay much attention to that area early on.

 

So once this feeling arises, you can begin to work with it. There are areas where it is much easier to feel and areas where it can be difficult to feel. These are referred to as blockages. There is a complex web of intersecting channels mapped out by the Chinese physicians and cultivators over centuries with which you are undoubtedly familiar. I am a bit of a heretic when it comes to this stuff but I'm not yet convinced to what degree all of the channels exist "objectively" or are developed through conditioning, whether it be through Chinese medicine and acupuncture training or Daoist cultivation training. It really doesn't matter to me but it's interesting to ponder.

 

So once you are able to feel this, begin to try and come aware of any part of the body at any time in any area inside, in the tissues themselves. Feel your left big toe, don't visualize it or think about it, be inside of it. And your right elbow, and so on. And you can imagine what you know about internal human anatomy but in my experience that can be as much of a hinderance as a help. Just feel what you feel and trust it and keep practicing. Eventually you will become more and more sensitive. If you have the benefit of a teacher, you can learn all types of fascinating and challenging internal calisthenics to develop a high level of clarity and precision in working with this. Whether or not a tingling you may feel in your hands or fingers is Qi passing between the hands through air is irrelevant. What is important for cultivation purposes is what you can feel inside the tissues of your own body. That is where the true investigation and exploration begins and ends (I think, I'm not done yet!).

 

So next we come to the Microcosmic Circulation. There are many different ideas and traditions about what it is and what it is not. There are different methods for practicing it. The "points" that I use in practicing the orbit come from my Shifu and are different from anything I've ever seen in print, though not dramatically so, but the differences are substantial. Based on my understanding of what Jing and Qi is, I do not believe that what you "feel circulating" is Jing. Jing is an energetic component inherent in human tissue and, as far as I know, it does not circulate through the meridians and channels like Qi is described to do. I will gladly stand corrected if I am wrong - like I said, I"m no expert in Chinese medicine.

 

Now here is more of my heresy. I don't really subscribe to the notion that Qi is some distinct quantity of something (energetic or otherwise) that circulates in the body. I think it is a very useful paradigm and it works within the framework of Chinese medicine but that is simply not a helpful way for me to approach cultivation. It may be exactly what is happening, or not, but for me that is not what it feels like inside. What is happening is that my Yi (意) usually translated by my Shifu as "mind of intent" is moving through or scanning my tissues. The way I interpret the phenomenon is that the interaction of my focused awareness (意) with the energy of living tissue (精) is the experience of 炁 (or if you prefer, 氣). I don't think it is a coincidence that there is a similarity between what I feel as Qi and that Jing is related to sexual energy. I think this is at the heart of the conversion from Jing to Qi. Jing exists in the living tissue and as I practice moving my focused awareness through that tissue, I become progressively more precise and facile with this skill and this experience is described as circulating or guiding the Qi.

 

So some say that the microcosmic orbit is always flowing and it takes very little effort and anyone can do it and they are correct. Anyone can feel a sensation flowing through any pattern in their body at any time and you can call it anything you like and it's relatively easy and trivial and I would ask, what is it exactly that you can do with that? What does it do for you practically speaking?

 

And others say that the orbit is extremely difficult and takes years to master and they are also correct and, IMO, they are the ones who practice true cultivation techniques. It has nothing to do with whether something is flowing or not. It doesn't really even matter what pattern it's flowing in (once you have gained a firm grasp of the basics). What matters is how you practice refining the skill of using the Yi (意). As you develop higher and higher levels of skill in working with the Yi, the mind becomes very tranquil and this tranquility is enormously powerful in many ways. And with cultivation most would say that one's Qi becomes very strong - I just don't quite see it this way (heresy!). The same Jing and Qi are there although I do feel that cultivation leads to improved health and well being and this certainly would equate to more powerful Jing and perhaps Qi (whatever that means), but to me the "quantity" or "health" of Jing and Qi is something gratuitous, something speculative that I have trouble relating to (probably because of my medical / scientific background). My Qi is continuous with that of the universe around me. My bag of skin can neither contain nor exclude it. Chinese medicine folks will disagree and talk about Qi deficiencies and excesses and that's all fine. I look at it more as relative deficiencies and excesses, not absolutes. Anyway, for me what is stronger is my power and skill in using the Yi and being more sensitive and aware and precise, not to mention the benefits associated with the mental tranquility which I believe parallels what Buddhists define as Buddha-mind or heart-mind, and what Daoists refer to as becoming one with Dao, and what Hindus refer to as the Self and so on. This is what is extremely practical and useful in many things and the Chinese are nothing if not practical.

 

So I'm sorry to ramble on for so long but these are my views from working with this stuff and I hope it's useful to someone in some way. I'm certainly looking forward to hearing the views of other cultivators and Chinese medicine folks who have a more traditional understanding and more experience in working with this stuff.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I'd be happy to chat a bit about Qi.

 

That was very good. I can see how you get the idea that qi is essentially the sensation of focusing on a particular group of cells, since the feeling follows the attention. This is a useful way to approach it too, ime. I always felt like the qi was felt from the attention received from the palms, though one could say that this is just an amplified way of sending attention to the cells.

 

I would say that moving the attention along probably attracts blood and ATP and things to the cells that are receiving the attention which nourishes them.

The need to focus the energy away from the body begs some explanation, though, since purging is also part of qi gong. Maybe it is just the super power of the mind to enact it's own placebo response and rid the cells of stagnant vapours or something. I still find it hard to understand this without some sort of energy, however.

 

I'm still wondering about the Jing side of it though, since I've learned a simple exercise which I later found out is to release blockages of Jing, and I can feel things running up through my body when I do it. Not certain if that is Jing or not, or maybe qi. The exercise is simply rotating the torso side to side and letting the back of your hands slap around your butt, hips, kidneys, liver, etc. and is best to do after "shaking the tree" which is to open blockages by bouncing up and down and letting your shoulders and arms flop around to loosen everything up, then shake the legs out too.

Edited August 13, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[ChiDragon]

It was confusing enough in talking about the "flow of Chi". Now, we are introducing the "flow of Jing" to cause more confusion....???

 

Somehow, the meaning of Chi Kung(not definition) to some understood as the cultivation of energy with or without breathing. To some understood that Chi Kung is the cultivation of energy involves with breathing.

 

Some of the native sources said that Chi Kung has to be cultivated. During the first level of the cultivation period, the mentality, the physical body and breathing have to go through some adjustments. When the practitioners reached the second level, so the mentality, the physical body and breathing can be regulated.

 

 

Chi Kung at the first level need to go through"

1. The adjustment of breathing,

2. The adjustment of the body activity

3. The adjustment of the mentality

 

At the second level of Chi Kung:

1. The breathing can be regulated.

2. The body activity can be regulated.

3. The mentality can be regulated.

 

Some people claimed that Chi Kung does not has to be involved with breathing; it may be just by using the mind will change the health of the body. However, in this scenario, I don't see anything insinuating that there was a piece of physical evidence which caused a change to the body.

 

In the scenario that the Chi Kung practice involves with breathing; and the new breathing method will change the regular breathing habit to abdominal breathing. There are ample of evidence indicating that the abdominal breathing method has changed the health of a human body from worse to best. The mentality will be effected, automatically, with an improvement of the health condition of the body. Based on this scenario, I would like to validate the original native concept of Chi Kung, at the beginning level, which go through the adjustments of the breathing, the physical body and the mentality.

 

At the first level of cultivation, the body was prepared for the next level of practice by going through a biological changes. These biological changes were made by some proper adjustments in breathing, transformation of the muscles, and as well as mentality. Then, the body will be ready to go into the energetic level of practice. Indeed, the second level is an intensive training in boosting the energy level of the body.

Edited August 14, 2011 by ChiDragon

[doc benway]

It was confusing enough in talking about the "flow of Chi". Now, we are introducing the "flow of Jing" to cause more confusion....???

 

Somehow, the meaning of Chi Kung(not definition) to some understood as the cultivation of energy with or without breathing.

 

To some understood that Chi Kung is the cultivation of energy involves with breathing.

 

Some of the native sources said that Chi Kung has to be cultivated. During the first level of the cultivation period, the mentality, the physical body and breathing have to go through some adjustments. When the practitioners reached the second level, so the mentality, the physical body and breathing can be regulated.

 

 

Chi Kung at the first level need to go through"

1. The adjustment of breathing,

2. The adjustment of the body activity

3. The adjustment of the mentality

 

At the second level of Chi Kung:

1. The breathing can be regulated.

2. The body activity can be regulated.

3. The mentality can be regulated.

 

Some people claimed that Chi Kung does not has to be involved with breathing; it may be just by using the mind will change the health of the body. However, in this scenario, I don't see anything insinuating that there was a piece of physical evidence which caused a change to the body.

 

In the scenario that the Chi Kung practice involves with breathing; and the new breathing method will change the regular breathing habit to abdominal breathing. There are ample of evidence indicating that the abdominal breathing method has changed the health of a human body from worse to best and the mentality will be effected, automatically, with a better health of the body. Based on this scenario, I would like to validate the original native concept of Chi Kung which involves with the adjustments of the breathing, the physical body and the mentality.

I think you are misinterpreting the statements made about the use of breathing in Qi Gong. Breathing is always involved.

One does not hold one's breath continuously during Qi Gong. It is also true that, with practice, the method of breathing will adjust and correct itself and come into better balance with the mind and body. I don't think anyone would question this.

There are legitimate practices and teachers that have their students begin with a natural pattern of breathing. They specifically feel that it is not necessarily important or advantageous to have a student force a particular pattern of breathing during the exercise. The reason for this is that specific patterns of breathing can distract the student and interfere with their ability to learn the body movements and mental manipulation. In addition, trying to force an unfamiliar breathing pattern to an unfamiliar body movement, while focusing on a challenging matter of mental attention can cause anxiety, hypoxia, muscle tension, and so on. This can be counter-productive. If the mental and physical components are correct. It is possible for the method of breathing to grow naturally out of this and be as effective (maybe more so and possibly sooner) as a situation where a specific breathing pattern is forced. This was my Shiye's approach to teaching the Tai Ji Quan form which is a complex and extended form of Qi Gong. And it is VERY effective. One does not need to work on specific breathing patterns until (and unless) one gets into the martial applications. One does NOT need to coordinate the breath with using Yi to guide the Qi. They can (and some might say should) occur independently (or dependently depending on the desired result). Sorry for the long paragraph but I couldn't tell where to break....

[ChiDragon]

Steve, what you have said is all true which I had said the same thing elsewhere. It was just too many objections and confusions in the communication due to some misunderstanding.

[doc benway]

Steve, what you have said is all true which I had said the same thing elsewhere. It was just too many objections and confusions in the communication due to some misunderstanding.

I think much of that misunderstanding is simply a matter of miscommunication rather than a complete misunderstanding of the nature of Qi Gong. I could be wrong about that but this is how I'm interpreting what the various contributors to the related threads have been trying to say.

[ChiDragon]

1. ..... about the use of breathing in Qi Gong. Breathing is always involved.

 

2. One does not hold one's breath continuously during Qi Gong. It is also true that, with practice, the method of breathing will adjust and correct itself and come into better balance with the mind and body. I don't think anyone would question this.

 

3. There are legitimate practices and teachers that have their students begin with a natural pattern of breathing. They specifically feel that it is not necessarily important or advantageous to have a student force a particular pattern of breathing during the exercise. The reason for this is that specific patterns of breathing can distract the student and interfere with their ability to learn the body movements and mental manipulation.

 

4. In addition, trying to force an unfamiliar breathing pattern to an unfamiliar body movement, while focusing on a challenging matter of mental attention can cause anxiety, hypoxia, muscle tension, and so on. This can be counter-productive. If the mental and physical components are correct. It is possible for the method of breathing to grow naturally out of this and be as effective (maybe more so and possibly sooner) as a situation where a specific breathing pattern is forced.

 

5. This was my Shiye's approach to teaching the Tai Ji Quan form which is a complex and extended form of Qi Gong. And it is VERY effective. One does not need to work on specific breathing patterns until (and unless) one gets into the martial applications. One does NOT need to coordinate the breath with using Yi to guide the Qi.

 

6. They can (and some might say should) occur independently (or dependently depending on the desired result). Sorry for the long paragraph but I couldn't tell where to break....

 

Steve, I am glad that we are in resonance with the same wavelength. By the words came out from each individual, we will know how much each one knows and what level of Chi Kung that they are in. So far, I have not read any description about Chi Kung as precise and relevant as the way you have stated. I would like to borrow some of your words and use them to address some minor issues because I couldn't say it better and as effective as you do.

 

1. Yes, breathing is very important and is a must in all martial arts. Especially, the "abdominal breathing" method was emphasized in Chi Kung. All the Chi Kung masters will know that only breathing will cause a physical change in the body. However, they may not know about the biological changes because it was not part of the requirement to study physiology in the practice of Chi Kung. Therefore, the master can only express what they feel in their thoughts. I think that was the reason why there are so many discrepancies in the stories which had been told by them.

 

It was very obvious, for those who practiced correctly in their breathing will have good results; and advance to the next higher level much quicker. For those who don't take breathing seriously are not advancing to the next level. Thus the biggest reason was that they have not done anything different than an ordinary person.

 

2. I couldn't say it any better than you have about the latter. The former was done so because it was only a test to indicate the progressing stage of the practitioner.

 

3. In my Tai Ji class, not to force breathing was exactly how I was taught. However, that was only at the beginning level. Most people didn't know regulating breathing was a higher level of practice. At the beginning level, the students didn't know how to breathe correctly. Indeed, as they went through the practice of the basic movements continuously, their breathing will be adjusted as you had said. Since they had prepared themselves to improve the respiratory system, then they can do regulating breathing.

 

4. Same as above.

 

5. Force breathing was not only for martial reasons but for health too. At the second level, force breathing is no longer a taboo, it was mandatory because it was the correct breathing method and has become the "natural breathing" habit.

 

6. There is no need to be sorry; and I am glad that you did.....

Edited August 14, 2011 by ChiDragon

[lifeforce]

Great thread !

Some excellent posts so far.

I'd also like to add, from personal experience, that there are different ways in which I feel Qi.

For instance, when I do my Xing Yi Nei Gong set, it feels sort of stretchy and fluid like.

However, when I do zhan zhuang, it feels heavy, thick and dense, like a dead weight.

In meditation, it is light, expansive and seems to have no physical limitation.

From my own observations, the quality and sensation of the awareness of qi is determined by whatever cultivation practice I am currently doing.

[dawei]

Yes, breathing is very important and is a must in all martial arts. Especially, the "abdominal breathing" method was emphasized in Chi Kung. All the Chi Kung masters will know that only breathing will cause a physical change in the body.

I think the miscommunication is as follows:

1. Most everyone in that other thread pointed out that breathing is so important that one has to know what kind of breathing is being done. In some cases 'no-breath' was done. I already posted a link describing the ancients saying to "hold your breath for xx minutes"... but the article explains they never meant to literally 'hold your breath'; you are not forcing your breath and instead it is more like respiratory action. Is "wu wei" truly the absence of action? If you can't get this, you can't understand effortless breath practices. It has been explained too many times.

2. Abdominal breathing is "buddha breathing". Once again, this is one of many kinds of breathing. Most people take it all very serious and don't hold to ONE and ONLY ONE kind of breathing. The breathing is based on the practice or goal. This is usually contrasted with Daoist breathing. As well, there is Martial Qi or Healing Qi there is Martial breath and Healing Breath. So there is just much more utilized than the simple idea of "Abdominal breathing".

3. Only breathing will cause a physical change in the body? You can't be serious with this comment. How would Qi emission, healing, and Medical Qigong ever work it it was only about "breathing". They are treating cancer by only breathing?

 

Your back to talking about stuff which you know only a little about.

Edited August 14, 2011 by dawei

[ChiDragon]

Yes, I had said that enough which it's enough and I'll not repeat myself anymore. Furthermore, I'll not argue the same old thing over and over again, here, to jeopardize the integrity of the members nor to contaminate this wonderful and purest thread. ..................

Edited August 14, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

I like a lot of what Steve raises so just use some of those comments as a point of reference:

 

I don't like the 'holding the hands together' method of learning to feel Qi flow. This is because it is very misleading in my experience and I believe that it gives people a false idea of what Qi is and what it is not. It is the root of fantastical imagination of masters exploding Qi from their hands and other supernatural things that are the stuff of myth and legend. Perhaps it is all true and real and maybe we will each see a convincing demonstration of it one day but it is not necessary, or even helpful, to develop a supernatural image or concept of Qi when first beginning to work with it. It is the most practical and universal thing possible to the Chinese mind. It is only mystical to those who don't look at it with the correct perspective.

I first came to a practice of Qigong through group and pairs energy work. We were never told what we could not do, only all the possibilities with energy emission. Most of it was 'hands-off' but it was very clear to me that given the right environment, it is quite easy to feel, receive and emit Qi. Based on the practice, intention was often brought in a a powerful aspect (as steve noted).

 

While many teachers would say these are advanced for later stages, it depends on how it is taught, IMO. Everything is possible but does not mean it should be done haphazardly.

 

 

I like to share how I first felt what I knew to be whatever it is that is described as Qi. And to me, I felt it strongest by far in the bottom of my pelvis in the region of the prostate gland. It has a sensation that is very similar to sexual sensation. If you sit quietly and pay attention to this area over time you may begin to feel as if you are sensing something stirring in that area. It may be a warmth, tingling, coolness, flowing, buzzing, whatever - you will eventually have some sensory awareness of that area. You can try it with other areas. I've been told by Livia Kohn that many women do better becoming aware of this sensation in the heart area between the breasts, I can feel it there very powerfully now but I didn't pay much attention to that area early on.

I also found this when doing meditative practices, and still do today. I also don't even pay attention to an area and it buzzes.

 

I'm not yet convinced to what degree all of the channels exist "objectively" or are developed through conditioning, whether it be through Chinese medicine and acupuncture training or Daoist cultivation training. It really doesn't matter to me but it's interesting to ponder.

I was quite intrigued by the idea of the 'channels' and then did specific exercises which were specific to channels. And repeated them a few times to test if it was chance or not. Then I looked at a meridian chart to confirm if what I felt was truly along that channel and they were. I have had enough acupuncture to also say that it is clear that certain "lines" stimulate a sensation or flow.

 

I do not believe that what you "feel circulating" is Jing. Jing is an energetic component inherent in human tissue and, as far as I know, it does not circulate through the meridians and channels like Qi is described to do.

I generally agree. I think Jing is something transported (or transformed and transported) within the bodily functions.

 

What is happening is that my Yi (意) usually translated by my Shifu as "mind of intent" is moving through or scanning my tissues. The way I interpret the phenomenon is that the interaction of my focused awareness (意) with the energy of living tissue (精) is the experience of 炁 (or if you prefer, 氣).

This is a very interesting way of putting it. The only think I might share is that the "focus" can be absence; you may or may not be have any focus and experience it. Maybe the point is that 'awareness' is open and that is enough sometimes. At other times, a focus can bring the experience right there.

 

---

 

My feeling of Qi is as many have related: flow, tingle, buzz, percolating. The most unusual experience was a continuous buzz 24/7 around the Jing area. It never stopped for weeks on end. I had two qigong people 'scan' me and both felt the pulsation but had no idea why it was occurring. It has happened twice but has stopped both times after a few weeks.

 

What I would finish with is the tremendous power of the mind/intent, particularly with Qi emission. As I mentioned, I practiced this from the beginning and so I would say that "intent" should be understood more as "visualization and imagination". There is a technique called "invisible needle" which is where one forms an acupuncture needle and then places in into a person. I have done this a handful of times and each time the person related feeling a shot of energy go along a meridian. I have had it done to me a few times and it cannot be explained so easy but can be experienced.

[ChiDragon]

My feeling of Qi is as many have related: flow, tingle, buzz, percolating. The most unusual experience was a continuous buzz 24/7 around the Jing area. It never stopped for weeks on end. I had two qigong people 'scan' me and both felt the pulsation but had no idea why it was occurring. It has happened twice but has stopped both times after a few weeks.

 

The "feeling of Qi" or 氣感, the "Chi sensation" as what the Chinese Chi Kung society called it. The Chinese CK masters described it as the body was going through the physical changes. It only occurs if there was a deficiency or small illness in the body. After the illnesses are cured by the continuous practice, the Chi sensation will be gone and was not repeatable. Thus that was why the symptoms won't happen again.

[dawei]

The "feeling of Qi" or 氣感, the "Chi sensation" as what the Chinese Chi Kung society called it. The Chinese CK masters described it as the body was going through the physical changes. It only occurs if there was a deficiency or small illness in the body. After the illnesses are cured by the continuous practice, the Chi sensation will be gone and was not repeatable. Thus that was why the symptoms won't happen again.

That may be one answer to deal with one specific idea of "feeling of Qi". I won't know if what I experienced two different times in the same place ever occurs again until the future.

 

I would be curious to hear if anyone has ever had a 24/7 buzz for many weeks on end. It was in the jing area.

[ChiDragon]

It has happened twice but has stopped both times after a few weeks.

 

I would be curious to hear if anyone has ever had a 24/7 buzz for many weeks on end. It was in the jing area.

 

Anyway, it's debatable. Regardless of whatever it was, it is considered to be the "Chi sensation" resulted from the practice.

 

 

Edited to add:

Let me clarify what was meant by the "Chi Sensation". The Chi Sensation was that any strange feeling resulted from the practice of Chi Kung rather than the sensation of Chi itself.

Edited August 14, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

Anyway, it's debatable. Regardless of whatever it was, it is considered to be the "Chi sensation" resulted from the practice.

I am hesitant myself to say it was Qi sensation, although I'll accept it as that. I have just never felt anything similar in any practice nor heard of anyone having experienced it. Because the normal sensation is a thin feeling to me varying in intensity; but this was more like 6 volts DC running through me. It was actually quite disturbing to feel. If anyone has stuck their tongue on a 9V battery to test it? That was the feeling. And it had a slight periodic pulse to it. Whatever it was, it felt more like a current than Qi.

[on the path]

Hi,

 

When I first started practicing martial art, I was frustrated by the fact that I didn't understand the concept of Qi and what it was and how to develop it. My Sifu said to me keep practicing, be celibate, tighten the lower Dan Tien, practice this specific Qi Gong exercise very day in the early morning. The first sign that things are developing are called 'blood Qi'. When the blood Qi is strong the hands at different times of the day will be slightly swollen, red, and very red at the tips of the fingers. This may take five years of the right practice. After this stage you definitely know you are developing your Qi!!!! If you are a woman, lucky things, you don't have to remain celibate!

 

"Hard,Hard,Hard!

The Way is most obscure!

Deem not the Gold elixir a common thing.

He whom imparts dark mysteries not to a perfect man

Is bound to make words empty, the mouth tired, and the tongue dry."

 

"All power resides in the semen, the breath and the spirit.

Guard these with care, securely, lest there be a leak."

 

quotes from the Hsi-yu Chi

[doc benway]

This is a very interesting way of putting it. The only think I might share is that the "focus" can be absence; you may or may not be have any focus and experience it. Maybe the point is that 'awareness' is open and that is enough sometimes. At other times, a focus can bring the experience right there.

 

 

The most unusual experience was a continuous buzz 24/7 around the Jing area. It never stopped for weeks on end. I had two qigong people 'scan' me and both felt the pulsation but had no idea why it was occurring. It has happened twice but has stopped both times after a few weeks.

Yes, I agree 100% regarding the open awareness as opposed to focus. It's hard to put into words. It can be focused or diffused but it certainly must be an opening. I read Bruce Frantzis' meditation books and one thing that I think he misunderstands is the difference between water and fire methods. He implied that fire methods are hard and closed and tight and focused. In fact, the quality of opening attention is the same as in water methods.

 

Forgive my ignorance - what do you mean by the Jing area?

[Birch]

I am hesitant myself to say it was Qi sensation, although I'll accept it as that. I have just never felt anything similar in any practice nor heard of anyone having experienced it. Because the normal sensation is a thin feeling to me varying in intensity; but this was more like 6 volts DC running through me. It was actually quite disturbing to feel. If anyone has stuck their tongue on a 9V battery to test it? That was the feeling. And it had a slight periodic pulse to it. Whatever it was, it felt more like a current than Qi.

 

I'd ask Hundun/Susan/Tao/Santi. You know what I think it was? But then I might be suffering from the 'everything looks like a nail' problem when it comes to that particular thing. Certainly if I consider your reported feeling, it 'feels' electric to me and it's familiar as such. Just to be clear, I'm not feeling 'your' feeling but recalling your description and being reminded of my own.

[dawei]

what do you mean by the Jing area?

yea... bad terminology.

 

I should of said urogenital organs.

 

Which is really the same as you first mentioned:

And to me, I felt it strongest by far in the bottom of my pelvis in the region of the prostate gland.

[dawei]

I'd ask Hundun/Susan/Tao/Santi. You know what I think it was? But then I might be suffering from the 'everything looks like a nail' problem when it comes to that particular thing. Certainly if I consider your reported feeling, it 'feels' electric to me and it's familiar as such. Just to be clear, I'm not feeling 'your' feeling but recalling your description and being reminded of my own.

I am still no closer to knowing what you think (or what I experienced) but you got my attention

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I like your idea of attention. What if we were to take it a bit simpler, and a bit further?

 

Attention (to the cells) nourishes the endogenous self-healing resource of the human body.

 

Perhaps there are multiple ways of cultivating this attention. I think of two off the bat:

 

Attention with mind.

Attention with spirit (cultivating no-mind).

 

Just some spontaneous thoughts.

 

well, I have to give Steve f his due credit on that one..

 

but yes, it is something to consider about how this attention affects the cells and "nourishes" their self healing ability. What I do know is that the placebo effect can do miraculous things just by the mind convincing the body to heal itself, so if we can do it intentionally in this way, it wouldn't be difficult for me to accept (in fact I already do in many ways, as do many here I'm sure..).

 

Sometimes I wonder if a large part of qi gong skill, along with developing the body awareness and muscles and stretching organs and things, has to do with having our mind realize and trust it's potential to make these things happen. And following that, how much is possible at a lower level of chi cultivation just by faith and trust in what we are doing and feeling.

 

There are people in Eastern Europe, for instance, who have natural healing abilities as a result of higher electromagnetic energy (See the intro to the book linked by zerostao in comment#2). We all have this energy, but some just seem to naturally be able to use it. Do they naturally have more chi? Or do they just naturally have a feel for it that experienced practitioners develop over time?

 

I realize this could encourage plenty of new-age delusion, but it's something that I'm sure at least a few people here could attest to witnessing. This doesn't mean that any little focus or attention will work, but, is there something to it?

 

I would add to the list of ways of cultivating attention:

 

attention with the body (just feeling what's happening vividly)

Edited August 15, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[dawei]

Perhaps there are multiple ways of cultivating this attention. I think of two off the bat:

 

Attention with mind.

Attention with spirit (cultivating no-mind).

Maybe that is a good way of showing a difference between neigong and shengong