How to recognize Chi

[oat1239]

Women's 'jing' is a complicated affair and is to do with the making of eggs, not the menstruation. The jing lies in the ovaries and is not affected by menstruation. It is the same as the making of the sperm in men, But many millions are made each day (we hope!!!) which draw on vital jing. The eggs in a women's ovaries are already there, formed in the womb and stimulated to develop further only at puberty or when fertilized. So women do not lose their 'jing'. One could even go further and say inherited 'jing'/qi, but then we are going off the subject.

 

I am still inclined to disagree. Whether one calls it qi or jing or both, I believe some is lost through menstruation. Just ask a woman how she feels during or shortly after her period and it becomes obvious. There is jing/qi loss. Certain qigong practices may reduce this. I recall reading that Taoist internal alchemy for women includes certain practices for women to reduce or eliminate menstruation, but I am not certain about that. I have come across this concept of women losing jing/qi through menstruation from different sources. If I recall correctly, one qigong book I read stated that women tend to lose less jing overall from menstruation than men who are actively having sex, and that might be supported by the observation that women often seem to outlive or stay healthier longer than their husbands somewhat, but I don't have any statistics to back that up. This last part about women tending to outlive their husbands or be healthier longer than their husbands is just my casual observation and may be quite wrong.

[ChiDragon]

Of course!

 

Blood flows better when the qi is strong and stimulated, everything works better. Good blood qi equals good organ and muscle condition. The jing is strong and is not being depleted. When the jing is not being depleted so the qi can start to build. When the qi is stimulated the 'blood qi can be seen in the hands at various times of the day, according to what one is doing. This takes us back to the definition of qi.

 

Most people do not have a definition of Chi. It was all speculations. It was like that throughout the centuries in China. I had been hearing the same old stories over and over. Now-a-days, the Chinese have come up with some good descriptions. Somehow, it was not transposed into the West but the same old stories again. What I had read between the Chinese and English was 180 degree out of phase. Too bad you don't read Chinese, otherwise, you will know what I meant.

 

 

If Chi is, the vital energy, the almighty, can we survive without oxygen but just live with Chi alone...???

Edited August 19, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

When we consider the person who is able to sustain their body for 15 days without food or drink, we might also consider that maybe qi is some sort of base or intrinsic driving force or energy which can take or invoke both physical and non-physical forms.

Inedia or Breatharianism... you can also look at Youtube and find people who follow Qigong practices to sustain it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia

[dawei]

The sensation only can be felt, only, and only if there are repairs need to be done to the body. In the event of repair, there are some sensations may be felt in different parts of the body. Those repaired areas are going a biological change to return to the normal condition.

This completely ignores Qi emission and receiving... almost anybody can walk up to another person and do Qi emission (given a few easy instructions) and the other person will feel it. This has nothing to do with "repair". That's like saying that when an acupuncture needle is inserted and one "feels" the Qi flow it is only because of repair? Or taking some herbs and feeling Qi flow is only because of repairs? It is because of Qi flow itself... not just because of repair.

[on the path]

I am still inclined to disagree. Whether one calls it qi or jing or both, I believe some is lost through menstruation. Just ask a woman how she feels during or shortly after her period and it becomes obvious. There is jing/qi loss. Certain qigong practices may reduce this. I recall reading that Taoist internal alchemy for women includes certain practices for women to reduce or eliminate menstruation, but I am not certain about that. I have come across this concept of women losing jing/qi through menstruation from different sources. If I recall correctly, one qigong book I read stated that women tend to lose less jing overall from menstruation than men who are actively having sex, and that might be supported by the observation that women often seem to outlive or stay healthier longer than their husbands somewhat, but I don't have any statistics to back that up. This last part about women tending to outlive their husbands or be healthier longer than their husbands is just my casual observation and may be quite wrong.

 

Hi

 

I get your drift and have known about what you are saying, but I think this is different. What I believe women feel, is more to do with blood loss and hormone changes. Their essential Jing comes from their mothers and fathers going back to the very beginning of time. Men's jing is the same, but because men make sperm all the time and draw on their jing all the time, whereas women's eggs were formed when they were a fetus in the womb of their mothers, essentially they don't lose their jing. But their qi can go up and down just like a man's.

[on the path]

Most people do not have a definition of Chi. It was all speculations. It was like that throughout the centuries in China. I had been hearing the same old stories over and over. Now-a-days, the Chinese have come up with some good descriptions. Somehow, it was not transposed into the West but the same old stories again. What I had read between the Chinese and English was 180 degree out of phase. Too bad you don't read Chinese, otherwise, you will know what I meant.

 

 

If Chi is, the vital energy, the almighty, can we survive without oxygen but just live with Chi alone...???

 

Definitely not!!

 

I believe that qi is just a component and around it we have all the ways of sustaining its continued renewal and survival of what we term as life. Great misunderstandings can happen when translating English to Chinese and vice-versa. A completely different perspective is very difficult to transcribe into another language without the same meanings, that is why I think Flowing Hands DDJ is of most great importance to people in the west or should I say English speaking people, because he has obviously used a greater understanding of what is Chinese into the greater understanding of what is English. I don't believe that all traditional Chinese concepts are right either.

[ChiDragon]

1. This completely ignores Qi emission and receiving... almost anybody can walk up to another person and do Qi emission (given a few easy instructions) and the other person will feel it.

 

2. This has nothing to do with "repair".

 

1. You talking about qi externally.

2. I'm talking about qi internally.

 

Two different things.

[ChiDragon]

Definitely not!!

 

I believe that qi is just a component and around it we have all the ways of sustaining its continued renewal and survival of what we term as life.

 

People always talk about Chi is the "vital energy" and never mention about "oxygen".

1. Do you think both have equal weights in term of "vital energy" for human life...???

2. Which one you think that was more important or which one can we live without...???

[oat1239]

Hi

I get your drift and have known about what you are saying, but I think this is different. What I believe women feel, is more to do with blood loss and hormone changes. Their essential Jing comes from their mothers and fathers going back to the very beginning of time. Men's jing is the same, but because men make sperm all the time and draw on their jing all the time, whereas women's eggs were formed when they were a fetus in the womb of their mothers, essentially they don't lose their jing. But their qi can go up and down just like a man's.

 

Still disagree. It seems to be a fairly common view within Taoism and possibly also TCM that women lose jing through menstruation and also through giving birth. In women, jing is associated with blood, so it may relate to menstruation in this way. Jing is also associated with other things like hormones. It may also relate to this as well. I guess we disagree then. I'm Ok with that.

Edited August 20, 2011 by oat1239

[oat1239]

Most people do not have a definition of Chi. It was all speculations.

Hello ChiDragon. It is easy for a person to make all kinds of statements to try to back up their point of view, but what is important is whether a statement has some real basis or not. There are all sorts of descriptions of qi from many different sources such as from various Taoist and Buddhist traditions and from TCM and from medical qigong practitioners, as well as descriptions from other cultures and such. In many traditions the views and descriptions and definitions are based on the accumulated experience and knowledge of many generations of practitioners passing on their accumulated experience and knowledge. To make a statement that "It was all speculations" is quite absurd. Much of it is based on many centuries of accumulated experience and knowledge by dedicated practitioners and the concepts have often been put to the test many times over. Of course it doesn't mean that all such passed on views and knowledge are always right, and certainly they are sometimes later thought to be incomplete or wrong and are modified, but to suggest that it is all just speculation is completely at odds with the reality of the situation.

 

 

Now-a-days, the Chinese have come up with some good descriptions. Somehow, it was not transposed into the West but the same old stories again. What I had read between the Chinese and English was 180 degree out of phase. Too bad you don't read Chinese, otherwise, you will know what I meant.

Actually a lot of the modern Chinese practitioners of qigong describe qi as a form of energy as well. This has already been pointed out to you but you seem to blithely ignore this fact. Why do you continue to shut your eyes and ears to this and other things that have been pointed out to you and continue to insist otherwise? Maybe the officially promoted Mao Zedong/Chinese Communist government inspired version insisted that all former ideas of qi and such all comes from superstition and therefore must automatically be completely rejected as baseless speculation and superstition, but most reasonable people do not discount traditional ideas and experience and knowledge simply based on blind ideology. There has to be a sound basis for doing so.

 

 

If Chi is, the vital energy, the almighty, can we survive without oxygen but just live with Chi alone...???

No, the body can't survive without oxygen. The body also can't survive without a lot of other things as well. Oxygen is important. So is proper nutritional and water intake and shelter and appropriate clothing and exercise. Breathing plays an important role in many forms of qigong practice, but just how the breathing is done varies widely with different practices. Some practices place a strong emphasis on breathing techniques, some place the emphasis only at certain stages, and some place little emphasis on breathing. There are different types of qigong practice. So called post natal and external qigong practices may place a lot more emphasis on breathing techniques to help acquire and direct qi. Other modern qigong practices such as zhineng qigong, widely practiced and accepted in current day China and endorsed by the Chinese communist government I believe, seem to mainly place emphasis on visualization and mental concentration to gather 'universal qi'. The mind is used in this practice to draw qi into the body and the movements and postures are mainly used as an aid to focusing and using the mind, based on what I have heard and read from some teachers of this practice. Other forms of qigong use certain specific forms and movement to facilitate the absorption of 'heaven qi' and 'earth qi' into the body and no special breathing or mental concentration may be used to accumulate and nourish qi. These are some examples but there are likely various other approaches to qigong as well such as absorbing qi from the sun, moon, and stars, and from nature and other practices.

 

One can't simply just ignore many of these different practices and views simply because it doesn't fit in with one's limited preconception of what qi is. Actually one can behave that way, but it certainly isn't very reasonable and it certainly doesn't help in any way to advance the knowledge and understanding of qi and qigong. True understanding comes from being open to all these different aspects and trying to come to an understanding that takes into account all these different views and different experiences of different properties and forms of qi.

 

For a person to make up statements and present them as facts and blithely ignore anything that doesn't fit in with their own personal view is the earmark of the fanatic. One doesn't have to be religious or superstitious to be fanatical. One just has to have very strong beliefs that something is definitely a certain way and the fanatical attacking or ignoring of other views that do not fit in with these strong beliefs may begin. My experience is that atheists and skeptics can often be just as fanatical in their close mindedness and attacks towards other views as some religious and political fanatics can be. Fanaticism is fanaticism.

 

Certainly, not all practices are necessarily good and not all views are necessarily valid or complete, but only by remaining open and taking into account and fairly investigating and evaluating all these different approaches and views from different traditions do we have a real chance of coming to a better understanding of what qi and qigong is. Actually, many people come to a better understanding of what qi is through their ongoing personal practice and experience of qigong and meditation and such people are often quite content with learning from their own personal experience in such matters. I personally am quite content to take this approach although I am always open to others experiences and knowledge as well, as it can help to further my understanding of my own experience.

 

 

-

Edited August 20, 2011 by oat1239

[on the path]

Still disagree. It seems to be a fairly common view within Taoism and possibly also TCM that women lose jing through menstruation and also through giving birth. In women, jing is associated with blood, so it may relate to menstruation in this way. Jing is also associated with other things like hormones. It may also relate to this as well. I guess we disagree then. I'm Ok with that.

 

I think one has to define what jing means to see whether we are talking about the same thing. I think not all TCM is correct, a lot of it is just guesswork with theory and it is not proven in western tests. I don't take this as a basis to decide whether anything is right or not just because a book or a person has told me and I have practiced TCM!! A book may say all sorts of things whether they are right is a different matter. That's why there are so many different forms and points of acupuncture, even though one might think that there must be only one set of meridians and points??? It cannot be proven in any case! There is a basis why jing is in the body from this we can understand it and how it manifest and affects us in our daily lives. The important thing I feel here is that jing influences qi and qi development, that's why it is important. If one understands the source then one can see that I am right, if one follows blindly what someone else theories-es, then you will follow this. I maintain female jing is essentially inherited and is little affected by menstruation or by giving birth to children. Although qi can be affected by both that is I feel the difference. Jing is the battery, qi is its manifestation.

[oat1239]

I think one has to define what jing means to see whether we are talking about the same thing. I think not all TCM is correct, a lot of it is just guesswork with theory and it is not proven in western tests. I don't take this as a basis to decide whether anything is right or not just because a book or a person has told me and I have practiced TCM!! A book may say all sorts of things whether they are right is a different matter. That's why there are so many different forms and points of acupuncture, even though one might think that there must be only one set of meridians and points??? It cannot be proven in any case! There is a basis why jing is in the body from this we can understand it and how it manifest and affects us in our daily lives. The important thing I feel here is that jing influences qi and qi development, that's why it is important. If one understands the source then one can see that I am right, if one follows blindly what someone else theories-es, then you will follow this. I maintain female jing is essentially inherited and is little affected by menstruation or by giving birth to children. Although qi can be affected by both that is I feel the difference. Jing is the battery, qi is its manifestation.

Why are you assuming that I am only basing my opinion on what some others have said or written? I am not, if that matters at all to you. I was mentioning this view to point out that it seems to be a somewhat common view overall, which does account for something. My view is also based on my own understanding and observations in regards to the concept of jing within myself (I am male) and observing what appears to be similar for females, both from observation and from what females describe from their own experiences. By comparing the concepts with my own experiences and experiences of others and from my observations, the idea that women lose jing through menstruation certainly seems to be valid to me.

 

 

If one understands the source then one can see that I am right, if one follows blindly what someone else theories-es, then you will follow this.

Now you are starting to sound a lot like another member here. Making assumptions and stating that if people would only see things exactly as you see them they would be right. Otherwise they are wrong. Funny!

[johndoe2012]

Edited December 11, 2011 by chris d

[The Way Is Virtue]

... that is why I think Flowing Hands DDJ is of most great importance to people in the west or should I say English speaking people, because he has obviously used a greater understanding of what is Chinese into the greater understanding of what is English.

 

Hi otp. Still continuing with the self promotion thing? Translations of ancient abstruse writings like the Tao Te Ching will always be biased by the person or persons actually doing the translation whether they are Chinese or not or whether they are fluent and knowledgeable in ancient Chinese writing and culture or not. Also do you realize that Lao Tze's original writing was continuous script with no punctuation and no breaking into sentences and no breaking into chapters? The breaking into sentences and chapters was done by others later on. There is so much room for different interpretations in the original writing.

[ChiDragon]

I let you guys fight it out....

[oat1239]

[on the path]

Hi otp. Still continuing with the self promotion thing? Translations of ancient abstruse writings like the Tao Te Ching will always be biased by the person or persons actually doing the translation whether they are Chinese or not or whether they are fluent and knowledgeable in ancient Chinese writing and culture or not. Also do you realize that Lao Tze's original writing was continuous script with no punctuation and no breaking into sentences and no breaking into chapters? The breaking into sentences and chapters was done by others later on. There is so much room for different interpretations in the original writing.

 

Hi twiv,

 

Why are you acting like a lun yong? Do you not posses any virtue, or is it something your trying to cultivate? If it is, you are not doing very well!! Still doing the puerile assumption bit. It does not become you! Because you seem to be like a dog with a rabbit and don't appear to have any grace, I'm not interested in your opinion thanks all the same!

Edited August 20, 2011 by on the path

[The Way Is Virtue]

Hi twiv,

Why are you acting like a lun yong? Do you not posses any virtue, or is it something your trying to cultivate? If it is, you are not doing very well!! Still doing the puerile assumption bit. It does not become you! Because you seem to be like a dog with a rabbit and don't appear to have any grace, I'm not interested in your opinion thanks all the same!

 

As you know, I was just commenting on what is.

[Birch]

As usual, "it depends":-)

I haven't read any women's comments on this thread but I guess it must be a bit different for each person.

I don't get tired out due to my period. What tires me out is giving too much. I think that's pretty much it.

But if you look at female practices (the rare ones that get "out there") many of them deal with pelvic area as well as heart centre/breasts. I think women's reactions to stress are a bit different and I guess until folks understand it, might be some leftover attributions by folks that aren't very helpful. Not to say that folks' attributions to male stress are any better.

[oat1239]

As usual, "it depends":-)

I haven't read any women's comments on this thread but I guess it must be a bit different for each person.

I don't get tired out due to my period. What tires me out is giving too much. I think that's pretty much it.

But if you look at female practices (the rare ones that get "out there") many of them deal with pelvic area as well as heart centre/breasts. I think women's reactions to stress are a bit different and I guess until folks understand it, might be some leftover attributions by folks that aren't very helpful. Not to say that folks' attributions to male stress are any better.

 

Such things do not seem to affect everyone in the same way. Some men say that sex just relaxes them or even refreshes them, so it seems there are variations in different people's experience.

[on the path]

As usual, "it depends":-)

I haven't read any women's comments on this thread but I guess it must be a bit different for each person.

I don't get tired out due to my period. What tires me out is giving too much. I think that's pretty much it.

But if you look at female practices (the rare ones that get "out there") many of them deal with pelvic area as well as heart centre/breasts. I think women's reactions to stress are a bit different and I guess until folks understand it, might be some leftover attributions by folks that aren't very helpful. Not to say that folks' attributions to male stress are any better.

 

Hi,

Its good to get a women's perspective on this!! I've been trying to show how wonderful you women are and can enjoy relations without losing your jing. If anything, women were the first species not men, it only makes sense! It is because women carry their eggs for new life long before they are born, their jing then has been passed onto them by their mothers and fathers. These are already made. During women's life time these eggs are released as we know, but the action of menstruation does not affect the jing that was given to them by their ancestors, because its already there. Men on the other hand, draw on their jing as soon as they start to produce semen. The more semen they lose the more the body has to draw on the jing to make more. So as a consequence if men want to develop their qi, which the driving force is jing, one has to conserve it to start off with. This is a very traditional practice and is frequently observed and written about in many accounts of qi development. That's it no more from me on the subject!!!