Disinformation campaign

[VCraigP]

Are there agents of disinformation and distraction present on The Tao Bums?

 

I am really beginning to think there are.

[Marblehead]

Are there agents of disinformation and distraction present on The Tao Bums?

 

I am really beginning to think there are.

 

I suppose that if a person were extremely critical or extremely fixed in their particular view they would think that this were true.

 

Personally, I really don't think so. Oh, sure, some members don't like hearing about some concept or belief and they will attack it. I think that can be found anywhere in life, not just here.

 

I actually think that most members here are very tolerant of the thoughts and comments of others. Afterall, we are a very diverse group of people.

 

Disinformation? Intentional? Not really sure. I have seen a lot of fixed opinions. I have some of my own.

 

Distraction? Yeah, sure. Hehehe. Why not? Try to lead the thread astray if you don't like the direction it is taking. We do that in real life. When talking with others if someone starts talking about something we don't want to talk about we will try to change the subject.

 

No, I think we just have a bunch of normal, everyday kind of people here who do what normal, everyday kind of people do.

[VCraigP]

I suppose that if a person were extremely critical or extremely fixed in their particular view they would think that this were true.

 

Personally, I really don't think so. Oh, sure, some members don't like hearing about some concept or belief and they will attack it. I think that can be found anywhere in life, not just here.

 

I actually think that most members here are very tolerant of the thoughts and comments of others. Afterall, we are a very diverse group of people.

 

Disinformation? Intentional? Not really sure. I have seen a lot of fixed opinions. I have some of my own.

 

Distraction? Yeah, sure. Hehehe. Why not? Try to lead the thread astray if you don't like the direction it is taking. We do that in real life. When talking with others if someone starts talking about something we don't want to talk about we will try to change the subject.

 

No, I think we just have a bunch of normal, everyday kind of people here who do what normal, everyday kind of people do.

 

I am extremely fixed and extremely critical then?

 

 

Normal everyday people? on the tao bums? Gee I would hope not, unless exploring mystery has become mainstream.

 

Outside of any judgement of my fixations or criticisms it is understood by me that there are fields of information and social interaction which are infiltrated by agents intending to mislead or obscure any revelation of truth which might tend to influence people against their agenda. So if you accept this premise which seems well documented (COINTELPRO...to name the most obvious) then it seems possible that someone might come here to confuse and obscure truth seeking behavior.

 

Nothing to prove. Just something I'm pondering. Not going to name names, but Forums are interesting places and different people are coming from different places with different ideas and goals. This much is certainly true.

[Vmarco]

Are there agents of disinformation and distraction present on The Tao Bums?

 

I am really beginning to think there are.

 

This observation is a good sign for you,....although it can lose you many friends. If you choose to look closely, the percentage of this presence is staggering. We live in a world where belief is more important than what's real, and must be defended at all costs. Belief will always seek to kill what's real, because what's real is a threat to belief.

 

"A belief is not merely an idea the mind possesses; it is an idea that possesses the mind." Robert Oxton Bolton

 

"It’s no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" J Krishnamurti

 

Anyone who gives you a belief system is your enemy

[C T]

This observation is a good sign for you,....although it can lose you many friends. If you choose to look closely, the percentage of this presence is staggering. We live in a world where belief is more important than what's real, and must be defended at all costs. Belief will always seek to kill what's real, because what's real is a threat to belief.

 

"A belief is not merely an idea the mind possesses; it is an idea that possesses the mind." Robert Oxton Bolton

 

"It’s no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" J Krishnamurti

 

Anyone who gives you a belief system is your enemy

Touche!

 

Here - you have just described your very own inner self to a 'T'. Shows a deep level of self-knowledge, one which few possess.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Touche!

 

Here - you have just described your very own inner self to a 'T'. Shows a deep level of self-knowledge, one which few possess.

 

Hmm. Is not everyone contradictory in some way or another?

 

Kind of like the workplace gossip who is extra-nice to you in the breakroom because earlier they stabbed you in the back by gossiping about you to a friend earlier.

Is the person Good? Well they may be in many senses of the word. However, it still doesnt change the fact that they are a backstabber and a gossip.

 

Personally, I havn't seen anything wrong in what he has said. Of course it has been a while since I have visited the forum. The only crime I have seen so far is outspokenness. If that is a crime, I am guilty of this too.

 

It is sometimes easier to make people aware of things than to move against something. When ideas and paradigms conflict there will always be conflict. Too bad that I find it humourous.

[C T]

Hmm. Is not everyone contradictory in some way or another?

 

Kind of like the workplace gossip who is extra-nice to you in the breakroom because earlier they stabbed you in the back by gossiping about you to a friend earlier.

Is the person Good? Well they may be in many senses of the word. However, it still doesnt change the fact that they are a backstabber and a gossip.

 

Personally, I havn't seen anything wrong in what he has said. Of course it has been a while since I have visited the forum. The only crime I have seen so far is outspokenness. If that is a crime, I am guilty of this too.

It is sometimes easier to make people aware of things than to move against something. When ideas and paradigms conflict there will always be conflict. Too bad that I find it humourous.

How you relate this to workplace gossip i have yet to fathom. Perhaps at some stage, upon deeper reflection, something familiar might lend a spark and the connection will show itself. But then, i am not sure if its even worth the trouble to think this over.

 

This is a forum, where people exchange insights and ideas, and learn to relate with one another in the process. Its a sort of fraternity. The older posters kinda have a useful understanding of this relationship, and thru time, the rough edges gets worked upon, smoothed over by compromise, not of personal convictions and beliefs, but rather, a compromise where strangers get to form some kind of bond of acquaintanceship. This is only possible thru a mutual willingness to relate, a term mentioned by Steve F, one of the more insightful Bums on this board, and i fully agree.

 

Its not about being judgmental of another - its about learning and making the effort to apply a very basic human communication agenda, one which Vmarco does not seem to have in order, but if indeed he has the capability to be more adaptive and accommodating, he has been very miserly in showing such qualities so far.

Personally, i do not take issue with posters who present their own ideas and paradigms - quite a handful, in fact, do this constantly, and you can check my record - there is hardly any indication where i oppose this in the least, so this says that i do not make it a habit to go looking for conflicts. On the contrary, i prefer to show appreciation whenever i come across posts that sparkle and finds its way to form some connection with the heart, which is where inspiration takes form, for me, anyway.

 

How does your inspiration arise? Surely not from reading the same material, quoted verbatim, in almost every single post someone makes?

 

I am not making false accusations here (you are encouraged to go thru his post history, if you can savor it), nor am i applying any subversive tactical maneuver to oust Vmarco from this board. The way things are going, he seems to be showing himself the exit door, with hardly any assistance at all. Wu Wei at work, perhaps.

[templetao]

Are there agents of disinformation and distraction present on The Tao Bums?

 

I am really beginning to think there are.

 

 

Bingo! Give the man a cigar!

 

 

Look deeper Look deeper Look deeper Look deeper Look deeper Look deeper Look deeper

[Aetherous]

Are there agents of disinformation and distraction present on The Tao Bums?

 

I'm interested to know what an example is of this?

 

It seems like if a person is a spiritual seeker, nothing will distract them...perhaps they can be misinformed about things, but there are others on the forum who try to correct when wrong things are being said (that's part of why there's almost always some sort of argument or debate happening).

 

So, are there really "agents" here who can turn people away from their path?

 

And do people think that these are government agents or something? That they are representatives of some other group? What do people think the motives of these agents are, in turning people away from the path?

[TheWhiteRabbit]

How you relate this to workplace gossip i have yet to fathom. Perhaps at some stage, upon deeper reflection, something familiar might lend a spark and the connection will show itself. But then, i am not sure if its even worth the trouble to think this over.

 

I am quite sure that the workplace gossip analogy explained the original statement of people generally being full of contradictions. We may choose to agree with most or part of a general idea. Sometimes we reject the rest. The analogy of a gossip being "good" is just one colorful metaphor. Its also like the Evangelist that has focused on one area of a holy writing, at the sacrifice of other areas. Since this happens often with any scripture, we are sometimes unaware of shadowy areas of knowlege or awareness we did not persue.

 

Its not about being judgmental of another - its about learning and making the effort to apply a very basic human communication agenda, one which Vmarco does not seem to have in order, but if indeed he has the capability to be more adaptive and accommodating, he has been very miserly in showing such qualities so far.

 

This is where we agree. It is my own shortcomming that I find conflict funny. There are many personal reasons for this. I would not stir things up haphazardly or deliberately today.

 

Cruelty is one so-called virtue of scholars who are just "of the mind". I say that to distinguish between those who are more empathetic or emotional based in their learning curve. For people who are purely mental and this is a rough subject, knowledge and the mental problem solving aspect is held of higher value over comradery or friendship. I am approaching this subject from the aspect of human behaviour. However, we all need people and it seems a shame that learning this aspect of human interaction is difficult for these ones. This is not a "diss" it is just an aspect of human behaviour.

 

Why did I post? I for some reason understood the whys of the original postee. I merely mean to inform only. However in a "Community" it is of better benefit to get along and understand differences rather than attempt to usurp, control or push an agenda.

 

If you agree with what Ive said it sounds like my perspective is almost the same CowTao. We seek to understand, inform and/or harmonize if it is not possible to completely get along. I realize not everyone does get along, yet we can't try to wage wars all the time. Edit: It isnt fun to try to wage war, especially on a forum.

[Birch]

I'm interested to know what an example is of this?

 

It seems like if a person is a spiritual seeker, nothing will distract them...perhaps they can be misinformed about things, but there are others on the forum who try to correct when wrong things are being said (that's part of why there's almost always some sort of argument or debate happening).

 

So, are there really "agents" here who can turn people away from their path?

 

And do people think that these are government agents or something? That they are representatives of some other group? What do people think the motives of these agents are, in turning people away from the path?

Heh, I figure if there were any agents here they'd end up spooked themselves;-)

What I think might happen more is various folks trying to push/sell their own practice system or POV. Then we have the evangelists who have made it their mission to, uh, evangelize. And what I think happens the most is folks with some degree of practice but not enough come in and start telling everyone "this is how it is" even if they don't know. But do they know they don't know? I'm not sure. I think it's why I like to know who's a teacher of what in here.

[Vmarco]

Kind of like the workplace gossip who is extra-nice to you in the breakroom because earlier they stabbed you in the back by gossiping about you to a friend earlier.

 

Personally, I havn't seen anything wrong in what he has said.

 

When ideas and paradigms conflict there will always be conflict.

 

Correct, WhiteRabbit, there was nothing wrong with what I said,...it was not offensive, and it was on-topic,...but a few cyber-bullies here have decided to make me a perpetual target for their victimization. I understand that you have been gone for awhile, but if follow my posts, they occur just like this thread,...I make an on-topic post, and they attack the messenger with the intention to hurt or embarress,...and attempting to chase me off the forum. CowTao writes "nor am i applying any subversive tactical maneuver to oust Vmarco from this board. The way things are going, he seems to be showing himself the exit door, with hardly any assistance at all" Yet, his posts show that he is using "subversive tactical maneuvers to oust me."

 

One of his fellow Trolls exclaimed that CowTao is the second most important Buddhist teacher on Tao Bums, and somewhat demanded that I follow him,...I responded that I'm not a follower,...so they esculated the ad hominem.

Unfortuately, I think CowTao mentioned he lives in an Asian Country, or was Asian, where Legislation geared at penalizing cyber-bullying doesn't exist. So I don't expect these offensive individuals to stop.

 

Anyway, as I'm not one to be bullied, I responded to each of their diatribes on another thread, thinking maybe if I fought back, they would go away,...but it didn't work. My new stategy is not respond to them directly,...some appeared to want to make a fresh start, and discuss the messages, and not bully the messenger. CowTao on the hand appears to have a deeper agenda,...my guess is that he thinks I'm a threat to his high Buddhist expert teacher status, as proclaimed by others,...but I've mention over and over in my posts that I have no desire to teach or be anyones expert.

 

Thanks for your concern. But the truth is, that even here on the Tao Bums, not everyone is into Welcome.

In Vajrayana it is said that the highest quality of a human is the ability to Welcome.

 

As the bumpersticker says, LOVE WAITS ONLY ON WELCOME.

 

V

 

PS... I just read on another thread:

 

Tao bums is a moderated, privately owned, web site; all who agree with our guiding principals are welcome to join our discussions:

Treat other members with respect. No personal attacks.

Moderators are present to enforce this, please abide by their decisions.

Please treat other members here with respect, if you feel that respect is not being returned. Then please report the post.

 

So, perhaps things will work themselves without us having to get involved. V

Edited August 15, 2011 by Vmarco

[VCraigP]

I'm interested to know what an example is of this?

 

It seems like if a person is a spiritual seeker, nothing will distract them...perhaps they can be misinformed about things, but there are others on the forum who try to correct when wrong things are being said (that's part of why there's almost always some sort of argument or debate happening).

 

So, are there really "agents" here who can turn people away from their path?

 

And do people think that these are government agents or something? That they are representatives of some other group? What do people think the motives of these agents are, in turning people away from the path?

 

Scotty

 

I am not interested in providing examples. I made an observation perhaps to encourage others to consider the idea.

I dont know if there are "people" who may think one way or another I am just one person wondering out loud.

 

Speaking of governments, speaking about the type you can know and see is also not useful in this discussion. It is my supposition that there are forces which profit by helping to keep the general populace asleep. Just as I strongly believe there are those who profit from keeping our (American) education system from being fully functional and would even prefer less opportunity for education and critical thinking.

 

Therefore to address any motives which might exist in my hypothetical scenario I would posit that the rapid dissemination of effective mind/body/spirit training resulting in greater awakening not to mention health, well-being and critical thinking while being unarguably a good thing may be against certain agendas.

 

But it's OK. I am just dreaming this up to entertain myself. Part of my ongoing thought game about a fantasy/thriller/spiritual/mystery work of fiction.

 

But it's all a dream anyway so...

[Vmarco]

But it's all a dream anyway so...

 

That's an excellent point,...always refer to the first Absolute Bodhichitta,..."treat everything you perceive as a dream"

 

Of course, while in that dream, "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong." - Voltaire

 

 

V

[TheWhiteRabbit]

That's an excellent point,...always refer to the first Absolute Bodhichitta,..."treat everything you perceive as a dream"

 

Of course, while in that dream, "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong." - Voltaire

 

 

V

voltaire candide... amen reverend

[Thunder_Gooch]

Are there agents of disinformation and distraction present on The Tao Bums?

 

I am really beginning to think there are.

 

 

Yes take this for example:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18434-john-chang-video-redux/page__view__findpost__p__258643

 

This post has been removed.

 

We have been informed this person is not Sherfu Andreas.

[VCraigP]

Bingo! Give the man a cigar!

 

 

Look deeper Look deeper Look deeper Look deeper Look deeper Look deeper Look deeper

 

 

Dont like cigars. How about a kewpie doll?

 

Always looking within. The well is very deep.

[doc benway]

Are there agents of disinformation and distraction present on The Tao Bums?

 

Interesting idea. Never considered that before.

 

It seems like if a person is a spiritual seeker, nothing will distract them...perhaps they can be misinformed about things, but there are others on the forum who try to correct when wrong things are being said (that's part of why there's almost always some sort of argument or debate happening).

 

So, are there really "agents" here who can turn people away from their path?

 

And do people think that these are government agents or something? That they are representatives of some other group? What do people think the motives of these agents are, in turning people away from the path?

Almost no one easier to exploit and distract than a spiritual seeker. No greater reservoir of opportunists and phonies than in the spiritual arena.

 

A competent "agent" could almost certainly interfere with the spiritual growth of his/her targets provided they were well trained.

This is a bit of a gratuitous assertion but the Cointelpro reference is pretty real stuff.

 

Motives: spiritually and religiously liberated people are free and much more difficult to predict and manipulate. Religion is the opiate of the people (Marx).

 

Speaking of governments, speaking about the type you can know and see is also not useful in this discussion. It is my supposition that there are forces which profit by helping to keep the general populace asleep. Just as I strongly believe there are those who profit from keeping our (American) education system from being fully functional and would even prefer less opportunity for education and critical thinking.

I'm with you on the education bit. The US educational system arose during the Industrial Revolution. There was suddenly a massive influx of young people from the rural regions who needed just enough education to make them suitable to be used in the workforce in the high tech environment of the factories. They did not need enough education to question authority or think critically, but needed enough to be "productive members of society." The system has changed VERY little since. And, if anything, the average level of high school education is falling, not rising, in the richest nation on earth. Think about it. We still don't teach our children how to be happy, how to be fulfilled, the importance of challenging authority, the importance of looking for NEW solutions to old problems rather than continuing to apply old procedures that have never worked, and so on...

 

I'll admit that I haven't considered this before VCP and I'm still not sure I believe this forum would be enough of a target for any agency to apply significant resources to but one never knows....

 

Interesting topic.

[3bob]

"Disinformation"... is an understatement! (my meaning is in general for this "world", thus and not exactly or only at this website) There is an all out war of spiritual forces going on and it will come to a head -someday- on this planet.

 

In the end She is unbroken and Golden purity prevails!

 

Om

[Jetsun]

"Disinformation"... is an understatement! (my meaning is in general for this "world", thus and not exactly or only at this website) There is an all out war of spiritual forces going on and it will come to a head -someday- on this planet.

 

In the end She is unbroken and Golden purity prevails!

 

Om

 

If you are trying to change and wake up just about everyone will try to put you back in your confined box because there you are safer and I especially mean the people who love you like friends and family as well as government and society.

[Marblehead]

I am extremely fixed and extremely critical then?

 

Hehehe. I didn't express that well, did I? Sorry about that, and no, I was not suggesting that you are the above.

 

I do understand what you are saying and inquiring on but we can't look at it from only one side or perspective.

 

I will read the rest of the posts before I speak further.

[Marblehead]

I am not making false accusations here (you are encouraged to go thru his post history, if you can savor it), nor am i applying any subversive tactical maneuver to oust Vmarco from this board. The way things are going, he seems to be showing himself the exit door, with hardly any assistance at all. Wu Wei at work, perhaps.

 

Please let's not pick on Vmarco in this thread. It is not the place, I think.

[Marblehead]

Well, sure, there are members here who have strong conviction and wish to share their enlightnement with others. I admit to being one of these animals.

 

But is it really disinformation? Well, I think it probably is if that information is contrary to what we believe. HA! That old subjective trick again.

 

Are there members here who enjoy challenging other members? Of course there are. This is not necessarily a bad thing though, I think. If we cannot support our beliefs then we need question our beliefs.

 

Yes, there are even members here who will 'go after' someone who is 'preaching' a belief that they do not agree with. I admit to having done this myself but I think I have never gone after the member but rather the message.

 

Any belief system that is contradictory to our own will always be wrong. That's the way life is. This is why we should try to be as open-minded as possible. At least we will be able to understand why the other believes the way they do even if we totally disagree with them.

 

I think this is a pretty damn good board. Hey, we even have our Christian IDers. Hehehe.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I think mostly this forum is being over run by silly newagers. They have no clue what they are talking about but love to tell everyone else about it. This place is like twitter for them lol. Though, we do have some genuine disinformation being planted here as I pointed out earlier.

[Marblehead]

I think mostly this forum is being over run by silly newagers. They have no clue what they are talking about but love to tell everyone else about it. This place is like twitter for them lol. Though, we do have some genuine disinformation being planted here as I pointed out earlier.

 

Yeah, well, we deal with them one mamber at a time. right? Hehehe.

 

That's why you need to remain active here - to keep us strainght.