Disinformation campaign

[Vmarco]

[Stigweard]

...

The statement that "Every written truth will someday be untruth" is disinformation. First of all, if a so-called truth is shown to be untrue, it was never true to begin with,...so why would any honest person have ever said it was true?

Exactly my point

 

Which leads to Laozi's statemens:

 

He who knows, speaks not.

He who speaks, knows not.

 

Also:

 

Descriptions of Dao,

Cannot be the eternal Dao.

Though names may be given,

They cannot be eternal names.

 

In essence, all things are only temporarily named. Thus: "Every written truth will someday be untruth." The more you attach to your concepts of truth, the more you distance yourself from the experience of truth.

 

Oh and ROFL ... you talk about disinformation and then quote Carols Castenada like an credible source and refer to Don Juan as if a real person. Now THERE is an oxymoron for you

 

[Mal]

Todays (15/8) desk calander saying -

 

I treat those who are good with goodness,

And I also treat those

who are not good with goodness,

Thus goodness is attained

-Tao Te Ching

 

(no mention of what translation )

[templetao]

No incorrect everything changes. What is true today may not be true tomorrow due to change.

 

Change reveals the unchangeable truth.

[templetao]

So truth is a living growing thing.

 

 

 

So why does truth change or evolve over time?

[Vmarco]

Edited August 15, 2011 by Vmarco

[Aetherous]

I gnow and know simulateously!

 

I can write the absolute truth "There is no Present Time."

 

That absolute falsehood is considered an absolute truth????

 

[Vmarco]

[Sunya]

Sure,...one can know what they gnow.

 

The absolute truth that "There is no Present Time." is irrefutable,...even if you don't believe it's true, doesn't make it untrue. It is infinitely more proveable than the inability locate a particle and wave at the sometime. There cannot ever, never, be a present, instant, or now in time. It's not a paradox, enigma, nor false. mc² < c

 

V

 

Why don't you rely on your own experience instead of vague scientific theories which are purely conjecture? You rely too much on abstractions, and that's why nobody can relate to anything you say. We cannot experience waves or particles, so why talk about them? In your own experience, what is there? There is definitely a present, an ever-changing present. It cannot be denied that the now is here, and this moment is now. It's foolish to deny the present, and saying that there is no present doesn't make it so.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Sunya

[Stigweard]

[Aetherous]

[hyok]

What I have always loved about the Tao Bums is how, from its inception, this forum has always found its way to become a no non-sense, no bullshit type of forum where truth, be it debated and dissected to a fault -- prevails in its own special way. The knowledge I've gained and the experiences that've followed from the posts made by genuine Taoists and adepts walking the path - indivduals truly seeking straight-up experiences that go against the tides of theory, opinion and Blah-fucking-blah-blah - is what has made the Bums what it has become, at least for me. This being said, I applaud the members who've stepped up and called out the stench because it magnifies the source as it attempts to defend its offenses.

 

And as someone who has posted a lot of stupid shit over the course of my stay on this discussion forum, I really understand when a person expresses themselves with a certain stride, a certain swagger. it's not unusual and something all of us may, have and will experience while we're walking the path, but what's been happening lately has the potential to mislead practitioners to which we, as a Taoist community, should feel some responsibility to hinder any further progression within these grounds.

[宁]

[Stigweard]

[Aaron]

Hello folks,

 

I've explained this before and I'll try to do it quickly this time. Everything that we view is simply what it is, if we decide to define it according to some moral or logical observation, that doesn't change what it is. A vial of hemlock is neither good nor bad, but we can discern it to be, depending on how it's been used and how we feel about it, yet those feelings and the way it was used does not change the fact that it is what it is. In the same way we can view something as true or untrue, but that doesn't change what it actually is, either an object or an idea, it is only our observation of it that changes.

 

When a wise man says he can look upon a pile of shit or diamond and see the beauty in each, it is because he understands that it is only the perception of either object that has changed, that the object itself is both beautiful and ugly, the only thing that makes it so is how we view it.

 

This goes for people too, so just because we have a particular view of someone, doesn't necessarily mean it's accurate, it's just our experience of that person. Everyone can be an ass and hardheaded, just as everyone can be compassionate and loving, the only thing that changes is our observation of that person. Remember the sadist and masochist aren't so different, it's only their observation that changes their obsession with pain.

 

Aaron

[Marblehead]

Matey you need to lighten up some

 

I was having a similar thought except my thought was, "Is he actually more hard-headed than I am?"

[C T]

I was having a similar thought except my thought was, "Is he actually more hard-headed than I am?"

Trust me, MH, there is absolutely no ground for comparing your style with this guy. There is much he can learn from you in terms of relating with others in ways that both or more parties will find beneficial.

 

You asked that i go easy on his droning... i am being very accommodating, thus far. And so are many others. Maybe its not even correct to say accommodating - more like, there has been revelation after revelation of the limits of his sight and capabilities. How could you get annoyed anymore when there is this gradual realization that someone is rather slow? Its not worth getting frustrated over this. Really.

 

Funny thing is he keeps asking why others do not engage his ideas in debate... implying what, i wonder.

[Marblehead]

Trust me, MH, there is absolutely no ground for comparing your style with this guy. There is much he can learn from you in terms of relating with others in ways that both or more parties will find beneficial.

 

You asked that i go easy on his droning... i am being very accommodating, thus far. And so are many others. Maybe its not even correct to say accommodating - more like, there has been revelation after revelation of the limits of his sight and capabilities. How could you get annoyed anymore when there is this gradual realization that someone is rather slow? Its not worth getting frustrated over this. Really.

 

Funny thing is he keeps asking why others do not engage his ideas in debate... implying what, i wonder.

 

Thanks for the compliment. This is specially important to me as you and I have had our disagreements in the past. You are a kind person.

 

Yes, Vmarco is riding a horse. He is in the middle of a river. The horse has gone lame. He has a fit horse in tow but fears changing horses thinking that he might fall into the river and be swept away.

 

I'm not knocking his base thoughts because I think there is validity in them.

 

I opted out of his other thread because he put limits on what he expected to hear from anyone posting to the thread. That brought back memories of the first time I decided to read Emmanual Kant. In his preface he stated something like: "You must accept everything I say or you can accept nothing of what I say." I put the book back on the shelf and never wished to read any of his work again.

 

We cannot set limits on what others are to think. We each are individuals and we each have our own understandings. If you wish to convince me of something we must ingage in discussion and we must consider everything the other has to say even if we totally disagree with what they have said.

 

But we are talking about disinformation, aren't we? Intentional or unintentional? There is a big difference there. Also to consider is the understanding each of us have. I may have an understanding but be totally lost regarding the concept. In my mind I am still right and when I speak to that concept I am being honest and telling the 'truth' as I understand it.

 

Once upon a time the Earth was flat. Now it is round. Well, kinda oval, actually because of the pull of the moon.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Disinfo agents. You ready for a really far fetched theory? How about if some people are actually trying to win souls for SATAN by causing them to engage in unnecessary frustrated debates? ignore all posts and responses to such posts. CLEANSE the vile demons from your pleasant mind stream. Halleluja!

[Marblehead]

Disinfo agents. You ready for a really far fetched theory? How about if some people are actually trying to win souls for SATAN by causing them to engage in unnecessary frustrated debates? ignore all posts and responses to such posts. CLEANSE the vile demons from your pleasant mind stream. Halleluja!

 

Now you know that is not within my set of capabilities. Hehehe.

[VCraigP]

You're dwelling in paranoid schizophrenic territory here, OP.

 

You can find almost anything on the internet and there is absolutely no way to suppress it so "the powers at be", even if they had any interest to do so (which they don't) are powerless in this regard.

 

The only thing you should be wary of is the armchair gurus playing the one-up game.

 

Personally, after lurking on the forums daily for months the *only* good thing I got out of it is Terry Dunn's FPCK system- but I'm not going to rant.

 

Agree with you on the value of FPCK.

 

Agree with you on the Paranoia. Disagree with the overarching dismissal of any "conspiracy" in the world(which is in itself an overarching generalization in and of itself.)

 

The PTB are not powerless, by definition.

 

PS - if FPCK is the ONLY thing you found of value then you must be even more bored with TTB than I.

[Vmarco]

[VCraigP]

I admit it.

 

I am a troll.

 

I try to elicit a response and there it is.

 

It has been fascinating to me to see who responded to this and how they responded, or Reacted.

 

Thank you for those who kept on topic.

 

For those who don't stay on topic, thank you for showing your inability to maintain that kind of discipline.

 

For those who thought I might have been referring to you by my post, I wasn't, but maybe you should think about why you thought it.

 

For those of you who actually decided TTB's needed defending within the context of my post, that was also interesting.

[VCraigP]

Disinfo agents. You ready for a really far fetched theory? How about if some people are actually trying to win souls for SATAN by causing them to engage in unnecessary frustrated debates? ignore all posts and responses to such posts. CLEANSE the vile demons from your pleasant mind stream. Halleluja!

 

 

You are close to the truth. Actually 98% of all qigong is a method to open you up for demonic possession. The great deceiver will also provide you with strength, health and vitality too. Beware, the result is that you will transcend social programming and begin to see things as they truly are. As we all know, God certainly doesn't want that.

[Vmarco]

 

When a wise man says he can look upon a pile of shit or diamond and see the beauty in each, it is because he understands that it is only the perception of either object that has changed, that the object itself is both beautiful and ugly, the only thing that makes it so is how we view it.

 

 

When a wise person confronts a pile of shit, the shit is only the mud that covers the diamond, while neither the shit nor the diamond are objects to the wise, to the shit covered diamond all three are objects.

 

The wise, in her compassion, which only comes through wisdom (bodhi, a feminine noun) does not appease or avoid the shit, like humble men, but shines her light upon what's not real, so the real can be seen.

 

I have no problem with the continual plagarism or parroting of my posts,...but rearranging those words to point to something else,...to things quite neurotic,...is disinformation.

 

V