How do we lose our desire?

[Marblehead]

raz, the OP asked for advice and techniques on how to remove his desires but most of the replies are on why he shouldn't remove his desires and why desires are good.

 

this is contray to what the OP asked for and I am not surprised the OP has not even posted a single reply in this thread.

 

why bother arguing with people who do not hold your views and trying to bend them to your views?

 

Remember, most of us who responded to the opening post are Taoist in one form or another. We do not believe that it is necessary to eliminate our desires, only lessen them.

 

How could we possibly give guidance on something we do believe?

 

And why are you trying to negate the efforts of anyone who does not think as you do?

[joeblast]

how would you do that? I am sure the OP and other like-minded individuals would love to know the step-by-step exact process of how you go about removing desires.

hm...re-read my post - "remove" is a conceptual fallacy that will hinder true understanding of the question. that's why I made an analogy to sneezing - where did the sneeze go? or was it just a temporary building of energy in a certain configuration, and by reordering the configuration you transmute the potential and redirect it elsewhere?! its possible to do the same with small tinnitus that can pop up every so often - I had lots of bad ear infections when I was a kid, so perhaps I'm a little more sensitive there, but I make sword finger and wipe it away. reorder the potential, utilize it elsewhere. such it is with desire - discover the root of the potential and like a stem cell make what's necessary.

 

its just clinging to concepts, preordained structures that are a diffuse abstraction of reality; you'll have a hard time seeing the great red spot on jupiter if your telescope is dusty...but without a tripod to steady it, you're not even going to find it up there

[tulku]

Hold on, my friend. Where did you see me judging? Where did you see me telling him that he ought to live in such-and-such a way?

 

What gives you the right to judge that 'this is the problem with too many people in this world'?

 

Perhaps many of us who responded to the opening post thought that he was asking the wrong question.

 

Perhaps we were all trying honestly to help in the only way we knew how.

 

I think it is up to the person asking the question to decide if the responses were of any help or not, not you or I.

 

Consider that if everyone who read his post thought he was asking the wrong question and decided that we should not respond. He would be left with no responses to his question and would think that nobody here cared about him and that would cause him even more confusion.

 

marblehead, by asking the OP if he thinks that a life without desires is a meaningful life, you are already implying that a life without desires isn't meaningful at all.

 

there is already at least one forummer in this thread who has decided that it is his or her right to dissuade the OP from a life free of desires.. which is one person too many.. this is why i said there are too many people in this world who thinks everybody should live life according to the norm..

 

a lot of you think the OP is asking the wrong question because he is leading the wrong type of lifestyle.. if all of you respect the OP's lifestyle choice, which is a lifestyle free of friends and sexual mates, you would not have questioned the OP's stance in the first place..

 

as far as i am concerned, if the OP is not hurting anyone with his lifestyle choices, which he is not, then no one has any right to say he is asking the wrong question or leading the wrong lifestyle choice..

 

it is like jessica alba coming onto this board and asking everyone,"how do i attract a woman to sleep with me despite the fact that I am a girl"... and then everyone else starts questioning jessica,"why would such a hot, beautiful, sexy babe like you wanna sleep with a girl? you should sleep with a man instead"..

 

and then all the male forummers on this board mass PMing jessica alba with their contact details.. lol..

 

Jessica Alba is asking for techniques on how to seduce women into lesbian relationships damnit! She isn't asking you for your opinions on whom she should sleep with!

Edited August 16, 2011 by tulku

[tulku]

Remember, most of us who responded to the opening post are Taoist in one form or another. We do not believe that it is necessary to eliminate our desires, only lessen them.

 

How could we possibly give guidance on something we do believe?

 

And why are you trying to negate the efforts of anyone who does not think as you do?

 

i have yet to meet a true taoist master who doesn't believe in eliminating desires.. even the chinese and taiwanese taoist masters believe that it is neccessary to eliminate your desires in order to evolve spiritually..

 

i know more than one taoist master who has spent time in a cave away from humanity meditating to free themselves from sexual desires and other desires.. and these taoist masters are still living..

 

in the mainstream taoist traditions, it is not uncommon for a student to meditate in a temple by sitting under the altar table for 49 days straight.. and this is like only the beginning of their training..

 

removing desires is a fundamental step of true taoist master training.. because these desires are what come along to impede the spiritual progress of seekers.. this is what i have researched over the years.. anyone that tell you otherwise is a fake master..

 

enuff said!

[Marblehead]

marblehead, by asking the OP if he thinks that a life without desires is a meaningful life, you are already implying that a life without desires isn't meaningful at all.

 

Okay. Fair response. I only ask are you sure I asked the question you suggest I asked? If, in fact, I did then I think I would have been in error.

 

 

BTW The first time I encountered people talking about Jessica I had to do a search because I had no idea who she was. Regretfully she is not a part of my life so I don't try to communicate with her.

 

HA! You have become a part of my life so here I am communicating with you.

[tulku]

No he doesn't! He already admitted to that in a later post.

 

Hi, i am starting to use taoist philosophy in my day to day life and i have encountered a problem. for a long time now i have greatly desired to have more friends and a girlfriend. it has been a constant problem that makes me suffer. i wish to release myself from these desires like others, but i just don't know how to. they are and always have been great desires for me. does anyone here have an idea of what i should do?

[Marblehead]

i have yet to meet a true taoist master ...

 

I have never met a Taoist Master and I damn sure ain't one.

 

All I have seen in this world are people with desires of one form or another. Seems to be very natural to me. I like things natural.

 

I have few desires. (Actually, at this point in time I have none.) I have emotions though. I love my emotions.

 

'nuff said. Hehehe.

[Marblehead]

Hi, i am starting to use taoist philosophy in my day to day life and i have encountered a problem. for a long time now i have greatly desired to have more friends and a girlfriend. it has been a constant problem that makes me suffer. i wish to release myself from these desires like others, but i just don't know how to. they are and always have been great desires for me. does anyone here have an idea of what i should do?

 

And from his other thread:

 

Yes I have been hurt. I used to have a girlfriend and, in the end, she hurt me alot. However the times we were together made me very happy. that is why i wish another one.

Also I have become a lot more introverted and have lost a lot of friends and wish more but am not getting more.

I noticed that the desire for these things made me sad and angry and stuff and i feel like i'll not be able to achieve these things that is why i wish not to desire these things anymore.

 

 

So I suggest that at this point in time he is between a rock and a hard place. Which way to go? Shuck it all? Or do I find a way to get over the hurt I am experiencing?

 

He has emotions. That's good. He has a problem. That's not so good. But it might be a 'life lesson' he needs to learn.

 

What to do? What to do? Should I shit or go blind? Reminds me of the song: I'd rather go blind than to see you with another man.

 

Like I said in the newest love thread: Love Stinks.

 

But we get over the hurts we experience from lost love. Sure, it takes time.

[Marblehead]

And BTW, note his last question:

 

does anyone here have an idea of what i should do?

 

So we have filled him with ideas and some BS.

[tulku]

And from his other thread:

 

Yes I have been hurt. I used to have a girlfriend and, in the end, she hurt me alot. However the times we were together made me very happy. that is why i wish another one.

Also I have become a lot more introverted and have lost a lot of friends and wish more but am not getting more.

I noticed that the desire for these things made me sad and angry and stuff and i feel like i'll not be able to achieve these things that is why i wish not to desire these things anymore.

 

 

So I suggest that at this point in time he is between a rock and a hard place. Which way to go? Shuck it all? Or do I find a way to get over the hurt I am experiencing?

 

He has emotions. That's good. He has a problem. That's not so good. But it might be a 'life lesson' he needs to learn.

 

What to do? What to do? Should I shit or go blind? Reminds me of the song: I'd rather go blind than to see you with another man.

 

Like I said in the newest love thread: Love Stinks.

 

But we get over the hurts we experience from lost love. Sure, it takes time.

 

Let's just focus on what OP is asking for in this thread. Which is how does one remove desires.

 

There are plenty of ways to train up your emotions without human contact. Nature provide plenty of opportunities.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I'm gonna take a shot at this because I like puzzles.

 

Now, personally, I have not managed to eliminate my desires, but I have been able to reduce them significantly, and get them under control when they come around.

 

First, the Dhammapada is an excellent thing to read since it provides many examples of how desires are inconducive to peace and wisdom. This can at least help to remind that the surging passions of love and hate can be let go. When they are let go, serenity is the only emotion left, in my experience.

 

Another good food for the mind is just letting go of thoughts about profit or loss. Did I profit? Did I lose? It can help to let these go too. However, these are not the only things that trouble the mind. So, although they might provide relief at some times, the won't solve all of your problems.

 

The most effective thing for me when I have something difficult going on is sitting meditation. There are many hand positions, mudras, to effect this and that, but I still find that for me the best one is just putting my palms face down on my thighs. This position was suggested by Chogyam Trungpa in Sacred Path of the Warrior, and I find it does feel very warrior-like in confronting whatever is trying to push you this way or that way. Keeping the back straight, shoulders and arms loose, and ears over your shoulders, palms down, use your stomach muscles to keep your posture. Don't engage in thoughts and don't suppress them, if they come in, let them go out. Eventually your mind will be clear and this clear mind is also good discipline for commanding your mind during regular life.

 

If you are new to meditation, you may want to just lie down for 10 minutes, then 15 minutes, then 20 minutes, just to practice doing nothing. It can be very difficult for a lot of people to just do nothing for 20 minutes, but once you can do this, meditation will be a lot easier.

 

Also in regards to whether we should have desires or not, I personally believe that there is often some misunderstanding of what is meant exactly by having no desires. I made an article in my personal practice blog about ambition in the same regard. Feel free to check it out if you're interested..

 

H.E.

[3bob]

Hi, i am starting to use taoist philosophy in my day to day life and i have encountered a problem. for a long time now i have greatly desired to have more friends and a girlfriend. it has been a constant problem that makes me suffer. i wish to release myself from these desires like others, but i just don't know how to. they are and always have been great desires for me. does anyone here have an idea of what i should do?

 

The true desire for meaning, understanding, fulfillment and an end to various types of hurt is basic and not to be shut off... and just because it manifests as or through normal human forms or sometimes get lost in far less healthy forms that does not mean that its truth doesn't exist underneath them. Thus in a sense we all are working with the desire for quintessential meaning through various means. Also, the dharmas or spiritual laws point out general and proven ways and means to handle various desires related to our multiple needs as complex, multi-faceted beings.

 

Good fortune to you

[laughingblade]

OP seems not a happy man & his desire to drop all desire (!) is likely to stem from his unhappiness. "I had a bad relationship so I won't have any more, but I want one..." provides a clue.

 

ISTM that cleaving to no desire means that one shuts off desire. We're human first, so desire naturally arises and one has a problem. Forcing separation is suffering.

 

ISTM that cleaving to desire (without a 'cultivation' or tantric viewpoint) is what the majority do. Desire naturally arises, but one doesn't know or care the consequences. Ignorance is bliss.

 

It seems sensible therefore to suggest to the OP that neither desire nor non-desire are the answer to his unhappiness, but to point out that, in the experience of many, the practise of cultivation (eventually) leads to a balanced and clear relationship with desire. The widest and most inclusive perspective is surely to be sought here.

 

@tulku my projections are seeing your projections all over your posts my love: in 'protecting' the OP from bad men who want to give him the benefit of their experience and understanding you do realise you're telling quite a story, don't you?

 

Rich xx

[tulku]

OP seems not a happy man & his desire to drop all desire (!) is likely to stem from his unhappiness. "I had a bad relationship so I won't have any more, but I want one..." provides a clue.

 

ISTM that cleaving to no desire means that one shuts off desire. We're human first, so desire naturally arises and one has a problem. Forcing separation is suffering.

 

ISTM that cleaving to desire (without a 'cultivation' or tantric viewpoint) is what the majority do. Desire naturally arises, but one doesn't know or care the consequences. Ignorance is bliss.

 

It seems sensible therefore to suggest to the OP that neither desire nor non-desire are the answer to his unhappiness, but to point out that, in the experience of many, the practise of cultivation (eventually) leads to a balanced and clear relationship with desire. The widest and most inclusive perspective is surely to be sought here.

 

@tulku my projections are seeing your projections all over your posts my love: in 'protecting' the OP from bad men who want to give him the benefit of their experience and understanding you do realise you're telling quite a story, don't you?

 

Rich xx

 

I ain't telling you no story, ric, you either eliminate the hidden forces that are manipulating your brain with desires or you end up living a miserable life..

 

the root cause of suffering is being controlled by one's desires.. the OP is asking how to remove these desires so that he would not be controlled by desires anymore..

 

get to the gist of what the OP is asking for or stop derailing and diverting the thread with your stories..

 

you want me to introduce the taoist masters who can verify the truth of my words?.. PM me.. but you have to be able to converse with them in their language.. I am not talking about mediocre masters like wang liping but the real players in the world of taoism.. the taoist shamans in other words..

[laughingblade]

I ain't telling you no story, ric, you either eliminate the hidden forces that are manipulating your brain with desires or you end up living a miserable life..

Hidden forces? You're surely toying with me tulku. Nothing is hidden here other than by our own refusal to look.

 

the root cause of suffering is being controlled by one's desires.. the OP is asking how to remove these desires so that he would not be controlled by desires anymore..

 

You are mistaken. The logical error is blindingly obvious: Let's assume I agree with your assertion that "the root cause of suffering is being controlled by one's desires" (I don't but let's keep it simple). It does not automagically follow that one must remove them. The logical fix is simply to not be controlled by one's desires - which is where cultivation is relevant.

 

get to the gist of what the OP is asking for or stop derailing and diverting the thread with your stories..

My post was precisely the gist: neither desire nor non-desire is relevant. Transcend and include through cultivation. Simples.

 

you want me to introduce the taoist masters who can verify the truth of my words?.. PM me.. but you have to be able to converse with them in their language.. I am not talking about mediocre masters like wang liping but the real players in the world of taoism.. the taoist shamans in other words..

No thanks. If your challenge isn't derailing the thread I don't know what is. What I'd like to see is the OP (and you too my love) seeing through duality, appeals to authority, others' projections and so on.

 

Love'n'Hugs

Rich xx

[tulku]

Hidden forces? You're surely toying with me tulku. Nothing is hidden here other than by our own refusal to look.

 

 

 

You are mistaken. The logical error is blindingly obvious: Let's assume I agree with your assertion that "the root cause of suffering is being controlled by one's desires" (I don't but let's keep it simple). It does not automagically follow that one must remove them. The logical fix is simply to not be controlled by one's desires - which is where cultivation is relevant.

 

 

My post was precisely the gist: neither desire nor non-desire is relevant. Transcend and include through cultivation. Simples.

 

 

No thanks. If your challenge isn't derailing the thread I don't know what is. What I'd like to see is the OP (and you too my love) seeing through duality, appeals to authority, others' projections and so on.

 

Love'n'Hugs

Rich xx

 

to pass the final taoist shaman exam in taiwan, all the taoist shamans had to climb up a ladder of 108 blades!..

 

some idiotic girl without any taoist training tried the stunt a few years ago and the soles of her feet were cut to ribbons..

 

there is a danger when learning the arts of spirituality from so-called masters who professed to know it all but who actually know very little instead.. you will cut yourself to ribbons when learning from a fraud..

Edited August 16, 2011 by tulku

[laughingblade]

Tulku-ji. Lovely boy. Sweetheart. I really don't give a flyer about your misguided claims to some authority or other, and just to make it totally clear I call BS on them.

 

OTOH I really do care that OP doesn't drive himself into a miserable twisted ball trying to shut himself off from desire when it really really really isn't necessary in order to be happy.

 

Haven't you got some blades to walk on? Or maybe a bit of self-flagellation? You daring spiritual warrior you...

 

Love'n'Hugs

Rich xx

[Small Fur]

Dear ffvii,

 

The most simple way to "release a desire" is to do just that: release it.

Practice it as a principle of non-attachment- this releases you from the duality of reactions. There is no need to dwell in it positively or negatively, nor resist it when it arrives. Rather simply be aware and allow it to pass. Bringing a presence of grace to the matter of witness should help to bring ease as the tumultuom moves through and around you.

 

Use your energy to cultivate yourself more deeply. But again, don't cultivate energy as a form of resistance to desire, do it in acknowledgement of yi (the spirit of intention within- notice that this is a spirit, not a mental exercise. so move as spirit does, not as mind wants to dictate).

 

It is not necessary to have desire to enjoy or live life. Momentum doesn't need justification or lure to move as it does.You don't need desire to know that you are clinging to a rock in a moving river. And eventually, you will need to do something other than stay attached to this weight. When you reduce your sense of desire, you will be able to dance in the river with greater clarity. Living is clearer when you do not presuppose or seek to predefine, as life exists beyond the confines of our self-limiting expectations.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Small Fur

[tulku]

dear tulku, it seems to me that you are the sole argumentative one in this thread. Have you considered the desire you hold in your heart, your wish to control other respondents? Who have offered some wonderful advice herein.

 

wonderful advice hit da bull's eye instead of hitting the archer himself

[tulku]

Tulku-ji. Lovely boy. Sweetheart. I really don't give a flyer about your misguided claims to some authority or other, and just to make it totally clear I call BS on them.

 

OTOH I really do care that OP doesn't drive himself into a miserable twisted ball trying to shut himself off from desire when it really really really isn't necessary in order to be happy.

 

Haven't you got some blades to walk on? Or maybe a bit of self-flagellation? You daring spiritual warrior you...

 

Love'n'Hugs

Rich xx

 

yes master blade

[Marblehead]

Let's just focus on what OP is asking for in this thread. Which is how does one remove desires.

 

 

Naw. I can't do that. If you don't look at the whole picture you are missing some pieces. The missing pieces might be what holds the most important aspects of the view.

[Marblehead]

I am enjoying reading this thread. I hope Ffvii is as well. Lots of important stuff being said here and that includes from Tulku.

[mYTHmAKER]

One way to control desires is to indulge them.

[Marblehead]

One way to control desires is to indulge them.

 

Yep. That works too. Been there, done that. (Eventually they get boring and they are no longer desires.)

[tulku]

Desires for anything are illusions created by our Consciousness/Dao/Creator is order to reinforce our sense of the Matrix Holographic Universe we live in.

 

It is only by looking through or destroying the desires then do we begin to see our reality for the Matrix for the Great Illusion that it is.