How do we lose our desire?

[Marblehead]

Desires for anything are illusions created by our Consciousness/Dao/Creator is order to reinforce our sense of the Matrix Holographic Universe we live in.

 

It is only by looking through or destroying the desires then do we begin to see our reality for the Matrix for the Great Illusion that it is.

 

With a little editing I could agree with that.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

There is a koan:

"Do dogs have Buddha Mind?"

 

"No!"

 

 

Though dogs are natural, loving, loyal, sometimes courageous, and always spontaneous, they indulge every desire that comes to them.

 

Zen master Ta Hui said in order to bring your mind back, just remember: "Do dogs have Buddha Mind?... No!"

 

[tulku]

As the worlds spiritual traditions bear witness, tremendous transformations can take place when we can awaken to the real emptiness nature of our mind. This true nature of our mind, which creates all future fortunes, lacks any thoughts itself because it is simply clear, pure, infinite empty awareness. When someone awakens to their minds true nature, they can become the ultimate master of their destiny. They can become a master of fate because they discover the ultimate source of their thoughts, and will no longer be controlled by mental experiences that would normally impel them to a fortune they do not desire.

 

With this clarity, awakened people can go against the impelling forces of fortune and destiny they have already built and carve out a totally new future of manifestation. They can become masters of fate when they understand how the infinite chain of causation works, and recognize how to intervene within this web to accomplish their chosen desires. They can become masters of fate when they become void of selfishness because this emptiness allows them to tap into the fullness of the universe and use this energy, via the direction of their minds, in a metaphysical way to accomplish their aims.

 

Anyone who attains this freedom or emptiness of mind can detach from the pull of inclinations that would normally impel him or her to a destiny of bad fortune. Hence, by learning mental detachment you can always undertake better courses of action that build a better future than what is destined according to the previous actions you have taken. In short, people who learn how to detach from their bodies and minds learn how to avoid becoming controlled by undesirable fates that are opposite to their expectations.

Edited August 17, 2011 by tulku

[Aaron]

As the world’s spiritual traditions bear witness, tremendous transformations can take place when we can awaken to the real emptiness nature of our mind. This true nature of our mind, which creates all future fortunes, lacks any thoughts itself because it is simply clear, pure, infinite empty awareness. When someone awakens to their mind’s true nature, they can become the ultimate master of their destiny. They can become a master of fate because they discover the ultimate source of their thoughts, and will no longer be controlled by mental experiences that would normally impel them to a fortune they do not desire.

 

With this clarity, awakened people can go against the impelling forces of fortune and destiny they have already built and carve out a totally new future of manifestation. They can become masters of fate when they understand how the infinite chain of causation works, and recognize how to intervene within this web to accomplish their chosen desires. They can become masters of fate when they become void of selfishness because this emptiness allows them to tap into the fullness of the universe and use this energy, via the direction of their minds, in a metaphysical way to accomplish their aims.

 

Anyone who attains this freedom or emptiness of mind can detach from the pull of inclinations that would normally impel him or her to a destiny of bad fortune. Hence, by learning mental detachment you can always undertake better courses of action that build a better future than what is destined according to the previous actions you have taken. In short, people who learn how to detach from their bodies and minds learn how to avoid becoming controlled by undesirable fates that are opposite to their expectations.

 

Hey I think I went to that workshop too! Did you get the audio tapes? Sorry, just kidding. I'm not sure where you're quoting this from, but since it isn't in your normal style of writing, I'll assume you copied it from some place.

 

I will try and clarify some points that many people seem to misunderstand about heart-mind or if you prefer enlightenment. The three impediments to achieving awareness are anger, selfishness, and pride. Because of this, if one cannot find peace and satisfaction with what they have, they will rarely be able to see beyond what they see now. Now say one does possess the humility, selflessness, and serenity to achieve a degree of enlightenment, does that mean they will be devoid of desires or negative emotions? No. Anyone who tells you different is a huckster trying to sell you something (imo).

 

It is within our physical nature to desire things, whether they be physical, emotional, or even spiritual, an awareness of a higher spiritual state does not remove us from our physical being, so in achieving this state we do not somehow become devoid of negativity or christ-like, rather we become aware of the nature of our actions.

 

Detachment is not a vulcan like mindset that allows one to be completely logical, rather it is a state of connection with the world, through understanding the true nature of reality. Detachment means you have broken through and seen the other side, achieved heartmind, that you can be mindful of where your thoughts arise from, not that you will cease to have lust, hate, envy, or desires.

 

If you believe that you can reach a state void of negativity, void of desire, then you are in for a big surprise. I will tell you this, so long as you reside within the physical shell of your body, you will never be free of desire or suffering, you will only become aware of the root cause of suffering and in knowing this, come to terms with it.

 

Aaron

Edited August 17, 2011 by Twinner

[tulku]

Hey I think I went to that workshop too! Did you get the audio tapes? Sorry, just kidding. I'm not sure where you're quoting this from, but since it isn't in your normal style of writing, I'll assume you copied it from some place.

 

I will try and clarify some points that many people seem to misunderstand about heart-mind or if you prefer enlightenment. The three impediments to achieving awareness are anger, selfishness, and pride. Because of this, if one cannot find peace and satisfaction with what they have, they will rarely be able to see beyond what they see now. Now say one does possess the humility, selflessness, and serenity to achieve a degree of enlightenment, does that mean they will be devoid of desires or negative emotions? No. Anyone who tells you different is a huckster trying to sell you something (imo).

 

It is within our physical nature to desire things, whether they be physical, emotional, or even spiritual, an awareness of a higher spiritual state does not remove us from our physical being, so in achieving this state we do not somehow become devoid of negativity or christ-like, rather we become aware of the nature of our actions.

 

Detachment is not a vulcan like mindset that allows one to be completely logical, rather it is a state of connection with the world, through understanding the true nature of reality. Detachment means you have broken through and seen the other side, achieved heartmind, that you can be mindful of where your thoughts arise from, not that you will cease to have lust, hate, envy, or desires.

 

If you believe that you can reach a state void of negativity, void of desire, then you are in for a big surprise. I will tell you this, so long as you reside within the physical shell of your body, you will never be free of desire or suffering, you will only become aware of the root cause of suffering and in knowing this, come to terms with it.

 

Aaron

Whether for good or bad, all human beings tend to cling to their mental notions, even at times when they know they are wrong. We also let external and internal influences control us rather than be purely guided by our own logical reasoning. We let impulses and desires impel us down unfortunate paths, all the while blinding ourselves into thinking that we can somehow escape the inevitable. Emotions sway us and prompt us to do unwise things, even when we know the dangers, simply because no one ever taught us how to detach from impulses and choose better paths with better outcomes. That, of course, is one of the purposes of meditation.

[Mandrake]

Whether for good or bad, all human beings tend to cling to their mental notions, even at times when they know they are wrong. We also let external and internal influences control us rather than be purely guided by our own logical reasoning. We let impulses and desires impel us down unfortunate paths, all the while blinding ourselves into thinking that we can somehow escape the inevitable. Emotions sway us and prompt us to do unwise things, even when we know the dangers, simply because no one ever taught us how to detach from impulses and choose better paths with better outcomes. That, of course, is one of the purposes of meditation.

 

It is customary to provide the sources for ones quotations; avoid giving the impression of copied text being your own work.

 

 

Mandrake

[Maddie]

Perhaps a good approach to this topic of desire would to look at it from the Buddhist perspective, as Buddhism speaks a lot about desire. As the Buddha said all suffering is the result of desire, and if you remove desire you remove suffering. I don't think there is anything moralistically wrong with desire in and of itself, but if one "desires" to break out of the endless cycle of reincarnation that keeps us in the desire realm, then one must eliminate desires. Naturally eliminating the desires that we naturally have is not an easy or a fast thing to do.

 

First if you look at what desires are and what they are meant for, with in the desire realm (which is what we live in) desires are not only normal but vital. If we did not desire food we would starve, if we did not desire air we would suffocate, if we did not desire sex our species would not perpetuate. So with in the desire realm desire is a perfectly legitimate and necessary function.

 

It is only when one wants to break out of the desire realm all together that desire becomes problematic. If the goal of breaking out of the desire realm by letting go of desire is so difficult, then why bother at all? Because if you look at life in the desire realm, while it does have its rewards, it also has its suffering as well. Look at any nature show and see the circle of life which mainly involves one animal hunting and eating another. Not so fun if your dinner, and also not so fun if your the hungry hunter. So while the desire realm has its pleasant aspects, it also has suffering.

 

So one need not feel guilty about having desire for it is natural. On the other hand if one truly wants to break out of the desire realm, then one must choose a radically different path, in which they seek to reduce their desires. Its all a matter of one's goals.

[Marblehead]

So one need not feel guilty about having desire for it is natural. On the other hand if one truly wants to break out of the desire realm, then one must choose a radically different path, in which they seek to reduce their desires. Its all a matter of one's goals.

 

That is so sweet coming from someone who is viewing the concept from a Buddhist perspective.

[Owledge]

Who are you to judge the life of another person on earth? This is the problem with too many people in this world.

 

Too many people think that they know best, they think they know what is the best life for everybody and go around preaching to everyone how they should live their life.

Highly concentrated irony of non-self-awareness. Delicious! ... Crusader Tulku - Defender of the Internet-Forum-Besieged

[Everything]

ffvvi,

Try and get more friends and a girlfriend.It is good,dont mind that desire.In case you dont manage to find them as fast or at all make sure you dont mind that either.Life goes on.

Desires are natural ,they are our very form in physical world,without them we would not exist as human beings.I think being a connoisseur of desires is a way to go.

Hehe, I totally think the other way around!

 

Supressing desires is not good, but surpassing desires should be very peacefull have many benefits to our lifes. I have always felt this way.

[thelerner]

Whether for good or bad, all human beings tend to cling to their mental notions, even at times when they know they are wrong. We also let external and internal influences control us rather than be purely guided by our own logical reasoning. We let impulses and desires impel us down unfortunate paths, all the while blinding ourselves into thinking that we can somehow escape the inevitable. Emotions sway us and prompt us to do unwise things, even when we know the dangers, simply because no one ever taught us how to detach from impulses and choose better paths with better outcomes. That, of course, is one of the purposes of meditation.

 

Ye-es, but before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water.

 

People, enlightened and otherwise have often found chopping wood and carrying water is more pleasant with another person.

 

 

On a practical note someone mentioned the Dhammapada. Its a good dose of non clinging philosophy. A well done, fairly deep introduction is several podcasts classes by Zencast (an Itunes Podcast, Free). They may provide some classic insights and allow for a change in how you view the problem.

 

You could google- Zencast 49 - The Dhammapada Chapters 1-4

 

Zencast has many great podcasts.

 

Michael

[suninmyeyes]

Hehe, I totally think the other way around!

 

Supressing desires is not good, but surpassing desires should be very peacefull have many benefits to our lifes. I have always felt this way.

What do you mean Everything? How do you mean it? From which perspective?

 

'Supressing desires is not good , but supressing desires should be very peacefull.'

What have you just said there? Are you drunk on Tuesday evening?(well its Tuesday evening here..)

So let me interpret what you just said: Supressing desires is not good in violent manner , however if that same supression is done peacefully maybe noone will notice and it is actually OK and benefitting.

Edited October 4, 2011 by suninmyeyes

[Owledge]

What do you mean Everything? How do you mean it? From which perspective?

 

'Supressing desires is not good , but supressing desires should be very peacefull.'

What have you just said there? Are you drunk on Tuesday evening?(well its Tuesday evening here..)

So let me interpret what you just said: Supressing desires is not good in violent manner , however if that same supression is done peacefully maybe noone will notice and it is actually OK and benefitting.

 

@suninmyeyes

You, too, provide delicious irony, because you didn't notice that Everything wrote "surpassing", not "suppressing". Who's drunk now?

[suninmyeyes]

'@suninmyeyes

You, too, provide delicious irony, because you didn't notice that Everything wrote "surpassing", not "suppressing". Who's drunk now? '

 

 

Good point Hardyq . Had to google the word , I thought it is spelling mistake.

It does give a different meaning to what Everything said.

It did not seem to be something he would normally write at all as I understood it first time around.

 

PS

I dont know who is drunk , I am not, are you?

Edited October 4, 2011 by suninmyeyes

[Everything]

What do you mean Everything? How do you mean it? From which perspective?

 

'Supressing desires is not good , but supressing desires should be very peacefull.'

What have you just said there? Are you drunk on Tuesday evening?(well its Tuesday evening here..)

So let me interpret what you just said: Supressing desires is not good in violent manner , however if that same supression is done peacefully maybe noone will notice and it is actually OK and benefitting.

Oh, thanks for the interpretation. I understand you better now I think.

 

So basicly, you say that surpassing desires cannot be done, right?

 

Hmmm... How about I observe my desires. When I observe anything it looses its power over me and I feel like I have surpassed it. I live above it now and the desire is no longer important. It just is... Not surpressed, but surpassed.

 

Surpassing desires for me means keeping your cool. I think people here call it zen?

 

For me, desire is an angry emotion. It is similar to frustration. We should allow ourselves to feel it, to go deeper into the feeling. We should NOT NEVER act upon them. We have free will, we have the choice to go against our desires whenever we need to. This is how you train yourself to have more power and control in your lifes. Not to mention the emotional stability that comes from knowing your emotional triggers and learning from how your emotion works.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Everything

[mYTHmAKER]

Desires leave on their own when it is time.

[Jeff]

Desires leave on their own when it is time.

 

Along with anger and irritation.

 

[suninmyeyes]

[d'avid]

my few cents, getting back to the original question and ignoring the other contributions in this thread:

 

Why do you want to lose desire? Life (I don't mind if you prefer to call it god or tao) brings itself into manifestation and self-experience by desire. Desire is its very nature. What might trouble you is not desire per se but your conceptions of it. Or desires that are distorted, aberrations from your original desires that brought your higher soul into the play on earth. If you refuse to accept your desires as an essential part of your self, they will find expression in other forms that aren't likely to be beneficial. If you have no desire, what makes you move and take directions, decisions, responsability in life? How can life refine and perfect itself in humanity if not motivated by real desires?

 

I do think spiritual progress is about drilling through the layers of personality and breaking through to one's true desire nature, one's true will, thereby getting rid of "wrong" or lower desires by replacing or subordinating them with superior and stronger ones. Realization may come easier by going after those desires at hand than by refusing to take action and risiking having an unpleasant harvest. We have to harvest but not necessarily to eat what we harvest. Maybe some desires will be transmuted by just fulfilling them in one's thoughts.

 

If you have not thirst for something better / "more desirable" than what you are / have right now, you won't get very far in whatever undertaking. If you lose your desire you lose your life. Don't close the gates for the liquids of life.

 

 

[Everything]

There was a initial misunderstanding on my part about supressing and suprassing..

 

 

I like what Mythmaker said:

'Desires leave on their own when it is time.'

 

We do have free will , but what I found that it doesent always do what I( 'I'-which again IS a nothing but a desire)want .

As mentioned previously there has to be a desire in order to exist .From logical point of view('my' logical point of view that is, which is often debateble admittingly) I dont see how purley egoless (desireless) existance would ever be possible in physical form for a long period.

 

Desires are not angry emotions as commonly inderstood, this is from dictionary:

[dih-zahyuhr] Show IPA verb, -sired, -sir·ing, noun

–verb (used with object)

1.

to wish or long for; crave; want.

2.

to express a wish to obtain; ask for; request: The mayor desires your presence at the next meeting.

 

We could discuss wherther a need for going to toilet for example actually comes from desire to survive. In which case obeying your desires is very important.

 

Therefore if we have to pretend to do something ,than maybe transforming desires into more useful and comfortable ones would be effort worth investing in.

Having 'power and contol in my life'(as you mention) is not my path, but can see it being helpful to certain extent for some people.

Speaking to the underlined bit: that is very true and important for well being of individual and the enviroment.

Isn´t all angry emotions experiencing a lack within you that needs to get filled? Angry about someone hurting us, a desire to not be hurt. Angry about having little money, a desire to have more money.

 

When a person doesn´t know him/herself, the person doesn´t know what he/she wants. The person gets angry because he/she has no identity, no knowledge of what he/she exactly is or what it exactly is that he/she wants. When people get angry all the time, they think they get angry because of stuff that matters not. Perhaps these irrational desires is created by fearing something, I don´t know. This is something for the individual to discover for him/herself. All I see is that allot of people have irrational desires. I don´t recommend you act upon these emotions, because the reason those emotions came to be is often not what you think it is. When people want to go to the toilet they usually don´t get very angry or experience strong desire or lack. When they do, perhaps they fear something that they should not. When you can´t reach the toilet in time, you piss in your pants... So be it... We should not worry and feel anxiety over this, it will just create more lack within you and more desire.

 

When you actually observe your desire, you can understand the energy you have within you and choose to spend it wisely. When you observe your life all the time, the desire would not get in you in the first place. It simply a habbit of mind that we can change if we need to. You might say that a person should get angry when someone slaps him on the face, you might also teach him to feel priviliged to have his cheeks strengthened. To allow him to train his reflexes, etc. Desires are also very often a product of believe systems.

 

I don´t see any good coming for neglecting the desireful emotions, nor the anxious emotions. We should take it seriously when a person says he/she suffers from alot of desires. We should learn how our emotions work and try to change our lifes by changing our believes and transforming our minds. Addept to the environment you live in. There is no need to wake up with a strong desire to die, there is also no need to get very angry when you can´t reach the bathroom. Very weak desires can be felt here and there, it means you´re work in progress. The most important thing is to tell other people to CATCH their desires at birth. To notice as quickly as possible what your mind is doing when a desire is created. Analyze the thoughts that come with the desire. Try to accumulate all similar thoughts, write down your desires and find the core believe that is at the core of these desires. Just analyze it, contemplate it, meditate about it. Get to know your mind. Be an observer, non judgemental observer. This wont supress the desire at all, it will just dissolve it like salt in water.

 

An example of what I am advocating is this:

A person feels the sensation of hunger, yet he/she waits patiently untill it is time to eat. He is excited to eat with everyone on the table. The food is there, the person eats not with desire! The person eats with contentment... Slowly, chewing every bite patiently with grace and appreciation. Feeling priviliged to experience every moment!

 

Surpassing desire means actually to feel it so much, to oserve it with such a strong focus that you become enlightened to its manifestation.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Everything

[thelerner]

Desires leave on their own when it is time.

Only if we let them.

 

Too often we cling to pain,

the burn attracts our mind.

[mYTHmAKER]

Only if we let them.

 

Too often we cling to pain,

the burn attracts our mind.

 

Sometimes they leave and we can't hold on to them even if we want to.

[suninmyeyes]

Isn´t all angry emotions experiencing a lack within you that needs to get filled?..

Just saying that I have read your post .

My exploration is more along the lines what if whole of the manifeted nature is a form of desire in some way.

What you wrote is valid to your expirience , but it would break my back. Not becouse I am saying you are wrong or right but simply wrong weight for my structure.

Plus I cannot hold too much today, my brain is just going into relaxation mode by itself.

Edited October 5, 2011 by suninmyeyes

[Everything]

[Harmonious Emptiness]

my few cents, getting back to the original question and ignoring the other contributions in this thread:

 

Why do you want to lose desire? Life (I don't mind if you prefer to call it god or tao) brings itself into manifestation and self-experience by desire. Desire is its very nature. What might trouble you is not desire per se but your conceptions of it. Or desires that are distorted, aberrations from your original desires that brought your higher soul into the play on earth. If you refuse to accept your desires as an essential part of your self, they will find expression in other forms that aren't likely to be beneficial. If you have no desire, what makes you move and take directions, decisions, responsability in life? How can life refine and perfect itself in humanity if not motivated by real desires?

 

I do think spiritual progress is about drilling through the layers of personality and breaking through to one's true desire nature, one's true will, thereby getting rid of "wrong" or lower desires by replacing or subordinating them with superior and stronger ones. Realization may come easier by going after those desires at hand than by refusing to take action and risiking having an unpleasant harvest. We have to harvest but not necessarily to eat what we harvest. Maybe some desires will be transmuted by just fulfilling them in one's thoughts.

 

If you have not thirst for something better / "more desirable" than what you are / have right now, you won't get very far in whatever undertaking. If you lose your desire you lose your life. Don't close the gates for the liquids of life.

 

Excellent!

 

although desire can be a thief to the shen, we still must be honest about these things to live from the heart-mind, in my estimation.

 

It's a very difficult task to explain the tandem reality of dhyana with what you said above, but I believe they exist harmoniously..

 

Even when we have realized the true nature of self and phenomena, form is emptiness and emptiness is form. Desires are empty, but they are also form. That's probably the closest I can get to a satisfactory ratification, but, who cares?..