True Nature - Good and Bad.

[effilang]

If a man shoots someone in the head at point blank range and walks away and a woman sees him a hundred meters away. To her he is evil. But to the man that just avenged the rape and murder of his wife by a common criminal it is an honorable deed worthy of praise.

 

If the woman never knows the truth, then the act always remains an evil one to her.

 

Evil and Good are entirely subject to relativity and depend on the perspective of the viewer and their perception and reasoning of the situation.

 

Some might postulate that.

 

However if we assume that Karma, this almighty force, which is beyond relativity, beyond conceptions, yet is still capable of differentiating between Good and Evil deeds in order to distribute what is due in the great wheel of Samsara, then what do we believe?

 

Should we believe that there IS an absolute definition of GOOD or EVIL and if so why is a factor so important to the determination of our conduct in life kept away from us. Would it make any difference if were all born instinctively aware of what the absolute notions of good and evil were? Would it make us more righteous? Would we never do evil? Or would lust, anger, jealousy, hate and lust still draw us to evil deeds regardless of our conviction.

 

I mean, when you think about it. I guess we already had that scenario and failed. The bible had the 10 commandments, that didn't seem to go too well.

 

If Karma knows what is good or evil then surely it is not a concept of our own minds, rather something from above, but how can we understand things from such a high perspective? What does one have to do in order to be able to identify original good and evil. If you sit down and try to think about it. You might say to yourself, ah that's easy. I already know what good and bad is. But do you really? Ask someone else about the same thing and their opinion might be entirely different. Yet to you it could be plain as day.

 

Where is the original good and evil and how does one identify it in order to teach ones self and others the right way. Is it in the heart, the head, or are humans just destined to be blind people pointing in different directions assuming personal truths for everything. Living in their own delusional realities.

 

It almost appears to be a chaos by intelligent design. But what is the point and would the world be a better place if we all knew what good and bad really was?

Edited August 15, 2011 by effilang

[Sloppy Zhang]

Does karma work like good and bad?

 

I always thought it was just kind of neutral.

 

"Plant apples, get apples, don't complain about the oranges".

 

If you rape and kill somebody, you are sewing the seeds of rape and murder. If you rape and murder someone with a husband with a gun, well you are pretty much asking to get shot in the face.

 

If you plan to murder someone at point blank range in a revenge killing in broad daylight, you are sewing the seeds of there being a witness to see you, think you are a horrible person, and possibly report you to the police.

 

I guess it's pretty simple cause and effect when you think about it on scales like that. But then you factor in multiple lives and things like that, stuff gets kind of crazy.

 

Think about all the rapes and murders that are never reported and never solved. The victims never found, the perpetrators never get caught.

 

Sew the seeds of the perfect crime, reap the rewards of never getting caught. Do you get what's coming to you in the next life? I dunno. Maybe we'd like to think that you do? Maybe in another life you lose your smarts and get to play a victim. Maybe your soul has internalized what it means to be the villain, and you never really suffer (beyond the horrible soul wrenching feeling that you felt in your higher self when you committed that crime, but never experienced on a lower, conscious level). I dunno.

 

I'm no expert on karma.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Aetherous]

I do think there is absolute right and wrong.

 

For instance, of course it's wrong for someone to murder (kill innocent people). Of course it's wrong for someone to rape another human being (sex and sometimes violence without consent).

 

To contrast...

 

Of course it's right to give food to homeless people. Of course it's right to donate to charities.

 

There are grey areas of course, but it's all pretty simple.

[effilang]

 

Sew the seeds of the perfect crime, reap the rewards of never getting caught.

 

Hmm... A most intriguing sentiment. *ponders

 

I can relate your perspective, but if we assume that what is written in the texts is true then Karma does, without naming or labeling, differentiate between a good and an evil deed. How else can it otherwise attribute fortune and misfortune accordingly?

 

So many of the main religions including Taoism, Buddhism etc. all believe in demons, ghosts, hells and heavens on different levels of existence. One is full of pain and suffering and the other of delight and pleasantries. Even without naming separate actions as goods or evils, as creatures we can easily assume that an existence in hell is worse than one in heaven. Juxtaposing Pain and Suffering against Love and Bliss is quite sufficient as selective criteria even for a measly rat.

 

My point is that. If there is up and down, Yin and Yang. Malicious demons and benevolent all loving buddhas. Then there must be a clearly distinguishable factor upon which to define the conduct required from one in order to be deemed deserving of either of these existences, be it in Hell or Heaven or otherwise.

 

We as humans tend to see good and evil relatively. Our dads and moms propel their collective understandings of these notions unto us through discipline as we grow up, but the family next doors' could be absolutely different.

 

If Karma is the indiscriminate force which distributes what is due, the EFFECTS of the CAUSE as you put it, without considering whether it is good or bad based on our personal understanding. Then it must have a system of it's own based on which to make these decisions, in order to make sure you get what you DESERVE.

 

Karma may not name it. But if you believe that it does have criteria for defining good and bad. And if you assume that Karma is an uncorruptable entity, then there must BE an absolute EVIL and GOOD in existence. Something which regardless of what we people think or justify with our own reasoning, simply NEVER changes. An unshakable foundation of justice so to say. This would be the foundation of Karma, how else could it be everything it is said to be? And if this is so, why of all the things that the great sages have shared with us have they skipped the most basic rule book. Maybe it was just too long to write? : )

[Sloppy Zhang]

I can relate your perspective, but if we assume that what is written in the texts is true then Karma does, without naming or labeling, differentiate between a good and an evil deed. How else can it otherwise attribute fortune and misfortune accordingly?

 

What texts are you referring to?

 

I really don't know. I stopped reading after the Tao Te Ching

 

I talked with someone who had been practicing zen for a while, and that was the person who told me the planting seeds analogy.

 

The problem comes because all too often we do things (plant seeds) not knowing what we are doing. We don't know we are planting seeds. Or we plant seeds not knowing what they are. We don't water them, and complain when they don't grow. We do water them, but complain that they aren't what they want.

 

It was certainly a break from the "be good, don't be bad philosophy", and made me wonder if there even IS an objective morality. And that's an issue I'm still stuck on to this very day.

 

So many of the main religions including Taoism, Buddhism etc. all believe in demons, ghosts, hells and heavens on different levels of existence. One is full of pain and suffering and the other of delight and pleasantries. Even without naming separate actions as goods or evils, as creatures we can easily assume that an existence in hell is worse than one in heaven. Juxtaposing Pain and Suffering against Love and Bliss is quite sufficient as selective criteria even for a measly rat.

 

In one of Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche's books, he talks about those different levels. The heaven realms, the hell realms, etc etc. I don't know if he made the comparison, but somehow I got it in my head that the "heaven realms" were like the realms of the Greek gods. All powerful beings, super powers, had sex with everything, drank and partied and had wars with zero accountability. Total paradise. But it was still temporary. They could reside in that heaven realm for a hundred billion years, but it would still end, and at the end they would realize it, and, with their heavenly powers, could foresee the next life they would get, and know it would suck compared to the one they had then.

 

So I guess in this instance it would depend on your motivating goal. Heaven realms are nice. But in the grand scheme of things, they aren't that different than the hell realms. There is the same underlying process. Plant seeds and take care of them in a certain way, you get the apples (heaven). Plant other seeds and take care of them in a different way, you get oranges (hell). Adjust the metaphor to your taste.

 

My point is that. If there is up and down, Yin and Yang. Malicious demons and benevolent all loving buddhas. Then there must be a clearly distinguishable factor upon which to define the conduct required from one in order to be deemed deserving of either of these existences, be it in Hell or Heaven or otherwise.

 

I would think, assuming you are following the zen style fruit seed planting paradigm, they are just different types of fruit. Apple, orange, tomato, whatever. Plant the seed, do the act, get your fruit, and wind up in a certain realm.

 

We as humans tend to see good and evil relatively. Our dads and moms propel their collective understandings of these notions unto us through discipline as we grow up, but the family next doors' could be absolutely different.

 

I do think there is absolute right and wrong.

 

For instance, of course it's wrong for someone to murder (kill innocent people). Of course it's wrong for someone to rape another human being (sex and sometimes violence without consent).

 

To contrast...

 

Of course it's right to give food to homeless people. Of course it's right to donate to charities.

 

There are grey areas of course, but it's all pretty simple.

 

And this is where I am stuck with now. What is really "objective", and what is just conditioning?

 

"Do onto others as you would have others do unto you". Sounds great, right? I don't steal from people. But there are people who would steal from me. Did I "deserve" that? I am nice to others, but there are people who would take advantage of that niceness. Do I "deserve" that? So I don't steal, but I guard my money. I am nice to people, but cut off the people who would suck me dry with no remorse.

 

And then there is a societal, practical aspect. If we raped and killed whenever we pleased, where would we be? I don't want to get raped and killed. It hurts me. It hurts my ability to build a life in society. It does the same for others. So raping and killing is illegal, and we deal harshly with those who break that law.

 

But how many of us, given the chance to rape and kill, would? Not many people get that chance, so I don't see how most people could answer that honestly, and I don't expect the question to be treated in any other way besides rhetorically.

 

If we were given absolute power for one day, anything, no personal consequences, what would we do? Would we beat the crap out of (kill?) some guy who wronged us? Have sex (either by convincing them to, or forcing them do) with that woman who spurned your advances?

 

Would we hold back because we are afraid that God would judge us? That karma would give us misfortune down the road? Sounds to me like a system of control which helps keep societal order. "Not only will we throw you in jail, but you'll be sent to hell and reincarnated as a toad".

 

So we aren't doing it because it is "right" or "wrong". But we are afraid that there is some entity (corporeal or otherwise), which sees us when we're sleeping, knows when we're awake, and knows if we've been bad or good, which would then see us, so we should just be good, because someone would always know.

 

If Karma is the indiscriminate force which distributes what is due, the EFFECTS of the CAUSE as you put it, without considering whether it is good or bad based on our personal understanding. Then it must have a system of it's own based on which to make these decisions, in order to make sure you get what you DESERVE.

 

Deserve is a pretty loaded word. If I poke myself with a sharp knife, I bleed. Do I "deserve" to bleed? If I light my ex-girlfriend's house on fire, does that house "deserve" to burn? It just happens.

 

I haven't seen anything which, to me, would indicate that anyone is "deserving" of anything. I haven't seen anything which, to me, would indicate that there is an objective sense of "right" and "wrong" which is meted out by a deity or impersonal universal record keeping log.

 

I continue to do the "right thing" based, so far as I can tell, on what I was culturally conditioned to do from a very young age. I don't hurt people because I don't like to be hurt. I am aware that there are many consequences (very physical ones) for what would happen to me if I go around hurting people. When I act against this, I feel "bad". But do I feel bad because it is a deep, personal sense of there being an objective "right" and "wrong" that my very being knows is being violated, or is it because I have committed a grave cultural taboo?

Edited August 15, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Aetherous]

Sounds to me like a system of control which helps keep societal order. "Not only will we throw you in jail, but you'll be sent to hell and reincarnated as a toad".

 

You don't have a conscience? You wouldn't feel any remorse later on, by raping or killing on your 'no consequences' day?

 

Speaking of toads...once when I was kid, my cousin and I caught a toad. I decided we should kill it. But then in the midst of killing it with a stick, I realized how sick it was...without being taught that it was wrong. How it's not enjoyable, and actually regrettable and evil, to make someone/something else suffer like that. So I quickly took its life and apologized within.

 

So my point is: all beliefs and conditioning aside, I think human beings in general know right from wrong. The idea of "treat others as you'd like to be treated" is a great guide for maintaining right actions.

 

You brought up the example of people stealing from you...but do you think they're following that code? I don't! I think they wouldn't want shit stolen from them, either.

 

So yup, right and wrong is totally simple and "absolute". For the grey areas, we come to agreements in society about what's what.

[effilang]

Deserve is a pretty loaded word. If I poke myself with a sharp knife, I bleed. Do I "deserve" to bleed? If I light my ex-girlfriend's house on fire, does that house "deserve" to burn? It just happens.

 

If you poke yourself with a knife then bleeding is just a simple effect. It is not necessarily good or bad. If you jump of a building and die, it is also just a simple effect. When i implied something to "deserve" i meant as a consequence of the EFFECT not as a consequence of the CAUSE. So i am speaking of repercussion of the aftermath of your actual actions.

 

eg: If i shoot you and you die. What does that death deserve me? - Negative Karma or Positive Karma for me to experience in the unknown future.

 

Then from the perspective of the individual being shot. That is their Karma. Yet also, that could have been achieved by voluntarily deciding not to cook today, but to go out to the newly opening restaurant where you got caught up in an armed robbery leading to the said death.

 

The distinct distinguishment i make between the two scenarios is that. In one case. The action and reaction are immediate. Where as Karma might be more likely a consequence of the effect of the immediate action. O_o

 

I think i just went cross-eyed.

[Sloppy Zhang]

You don't have a conscience? You wouldn't feel any remorse later on, by raping or killing on your 'no consequences' day?

 

I'm not saying that I don't.

 

I'm just trying to ask "where did it come from?"

 

For me, if there is a true universal system of good and bad, then it would be beyond the person, the society, the circumstance, etc etc etc etc. If, say, through a rigorous system of meditation and consciousness exploration, I was able to separate out "social constructs", "personal consciousness", "universal principles", and so on and so forth, and see that there is this universal constant of "good" and "bad", then that, for me, would tell me that it isn't just social conditioning.

 

If I were able to see that, running through my personal consciousness, is a sense of "good" and "bad" which is a part of my person, and not a product of the universe or society, well then that would also tell me that it isn't just social conditioning.

 

Some people don't think it's possible to get to that point, and that such a point can never exist. I think it is possible, and that it does exist. I just haven't gotten there, so I don't know.

 

I think it's nice to do the right thing, even if you are doing it for the wrong reasons. But I would much prefer to do the right thing for the right reasons.

 

A fear of an all knowing deity or universal record keeper may lead me to help that old lady across the street, when really I couldn't give two shits. But knowing that helping out is objectively good would also lead me to perform a good deed. And I, for one, think that is the better of the two.

 

Which brings me to..........

 

Speaking of toads...once when I was kid, my cousin and I caught a toad. I decided we should kill it. But then in the midst of killing it with a stick, I realized how sick it was...without being taught that it was wrong. How it's not enjoyable, and actually regrettable and evil, to make someone/something else suffer like that. So I quickly took its life and apologized within.

 

I know quite a few people who have done the opposite. But I suppose I can't know what's really going on in their internal dialogue. Just a sense of heartless evil when I gaze into their eyes, and get a since that there is not a human being staring back at me.

 

So things happen. If there was any objective "good" and "bad" judged by the universe, or our own person, apart from social conditioning, then one would think we'd start seeing more trends in the "good" path, right? If we really had a sense of revulsion to evil, how do we explain the plethora of evil deeds and evil doers out there? Unsolved murders, missing people never found, etc etc etc.

 

There are people to this day who are suffering because of evil deeds, yes.

 

But there are also people, to this day, who are enjoying life thanks to evil deeds.

 

There are people who, to this day, who benefit from good deeds.

 

And there are people who suffer because of a good deed.

 

So how do we account for that? If we have a model of there being an absolute since of "right" and "wrong", "good" and "evil", and if we posit that humans have an innate since of that, how do we explain the vast numbers of people doing "bad" things?

[effilang]

You don't have a conscience? You wouldn't feel any remorse later on, by raping or killing on your 'no consequences' day?

 

This is one of the points i was trying to make.

 

If karma is distributed fairly and indiscriminately based on what we have done and gives us what we deserve in proportions equal in negativity or positivity to our actions. Then there aught to be an absolute definition of Good and Evil.

 

YET, and here is the joke. We are born without any workable inherent concept of good or evil, we have to learn it and have it conditioned into us, but we are given a CONSCIENCE. It's almost like, someone telling u to find a speck of glitter in a swimming pool. It's just torture. Why give us no rules, but give us this construct that constantly forces us to pursue and establish them. And when we do, they are never absolute. It's like mockery lol.

 

Imagine all the planets out there and all the other intelligent forms of life that exist. Have you ever wondered what their definitions of good and evil are? Would they coincide with ours?

[Sloppy Zhang]

If you poke yourself with a knife then bleeding is just a simple effect. It is not necessarily good or bad. If you jump of a building and die, it is also just a simple effect. When i implied something to "deserve" i meant as a consequence of the EFFECT not as a consequence of the CAUSE. So i am speaking of repercussion of the aftermath of your actual actions.

 

Okay, I think I see what you are saying.

 

But as the links in a chain go, the end of one is the beginning of the other.

 

Bleeding might be an effect. But my bleeding may yet be another cause, which makes an attractive girl feel concern for my well being, and then we get married, we have a kid, and that kid grows up to be a used car salesman.

 

eg: If i shoot you and you die. What does that death deserve me? - Negative Karma or Positive Karma for me to experience in the unknown future.

 

Then from the perspective of the individual being shot. That is their Karma. Yet also, that could have been achieved by voluntarily deciding not to cook today, but to go out to the newly opening restaurant where you got caught up in an armed robbery leading to the said death.

 

The distinct distinguishment i make between the two scenarios is that. In one case. The action and reaction are immediate. Where as Karma might be more likely a consequence of the effect of the immediate action. O_o

 

I think i just went cross-eyed.

 

In which case (if I'm reading you right), the outcome of "karma" would still just be another effect, but further down the line, and may only be related to the initial cause indirectly.

 

Consider a child walking down the street who gets abducted, raped, and killed. And since I'm feeling poetically just, the perpetrator is found, tried, and given a speedy execution.

 

There is karma packed in all of that. The karma of the kid for being born, for having the parents it had, for them moving to that place, for the kid walking down the street, etc. The perpetrator has karma, everything that had ever happened in that person's life which affected the way that they think and behave.

 

There is karma in the street, someone had to make it, someone had to design it, someone had to plan it, someone had to have reasons for doing that, for doing it in a certain way. The houses had to have karma, the cars, they are all effects which are causes of new things.

 

The clothes, the air, the jurors, the means of execution, the entire judicial system, the county that provided the groundwork which allowed such a situation, to exist, the actions of all the ancestors which led to the existence of the parties involved..............

 

I think karma can happen instantaneously or in a very delayed manner. Assuming, of course, the "cause and effect" model of karma

[effilang]

There are people to this day who are suffering because of evil deeds, yes.

 

But there are also people, to this day, who are enjoying life thanks to evil deeds.

 

There are people who, to this day, who benefit from good deeds.

 

And there are people who suffer because of a good deed.

 

So how do we account for that? If we have a model of there being an absolute since of "right" and "wrong", "good" and "evil", and if we posit that humans have an innate since of that, how do we explain the vast numbers of people doing "bad" things?

 

That's just the thing Sloppy. We have a model, but it's our own human model. It could as well be different in every country. In fact, laws are very different in every country.

 

Some people spend a lifetime in jail for smoking weed. Here in Holland i do it in the park while having a beer and enjoying the scenery.

 

These notions of good and evil that we have created, are not absolute.

I too have lived the frog scenario i had never killed another animal. My friends killed and tortured the frogs, tearing their legs off. I simple could not. I wasn't disgusted or scared. Even at that age i could not understand what they derived out of ending another creatures life. I still do not today. That is just pure evil at a young age. When you grow up and you have a conscience and a better understanding of write and wrong and you still give into those evil impulses, that is EVIL on a whole different level.

 

Either way. I strayed. My point is that. Karma in order to dish out what is due based on what you have done, must have a working algorithm. And that algorithm i think is the absolute good and bad of the universe. But how can we ever know it, and why are we kept so far away from it? Thrown into the chaos of the world, gifted with a conscience. It is at the best divine comedy. They are probably up there laughing at us.

 

And yes. It is true there are people benefiting from evil now and those receiving evil in return for their kindness. Do the good suffer because they were evil before and simply have evil karma to burn? Do the evil now live lavishly because they did good deeds in their past life, but will suffer again in their next? I don't know honestly. lol But its intriguing to think about.

Edited August 15, 2011 by effilang

[Sloppy Zhang]

YET, and here is the joke. We are born without any workable inherent concept of good or evil, we have to learn it and have it conditioned into us, but we are given a CONSCIENCE.

 

So my question is: are we really given a conscience, or is what we call a "conscience" really just a byproduct of years of societal conditioning, which we assume to be second (first?) nature because it is so familiar to us?

 

It's almost like, someone telling u to find a speck of glitter in a swimming pool. It's just torture. Why give us no rules, but give us this construct that constantly forces us to pursue and establish them. And when we do, they are never absolute. It's like mockery lol.

 

But again, that's assuming that, inherent in us, is a construct which tells us that finding the glitter is worthwhile! What is to stop us from saying "fuck that", and go on our merry way? Because we have a deep seated sense that the glitter is valuable? Or, ever since we were little babies, we observed the behavior of people clamoring for that glitter so hard that we just assumed the glitter had value, we internalized that struggle, and then carry it on ourselves, never knowing its true origin?

 

Imagine all the planets out there and all the other intelligent forms of life that exist. Have you ever wondered what their definitions of good and evil are? Would they coincide with ours?

 

Or would they say "why the hell do you care about glitter in a swimming pool? You can go down to a party store and buy a pack full of glitter for a dollar, stupid humans, zap".

[Aetherous]

Why give us no rules, but give us this construct that constantly forces us to pursue and establish them.

 

But we were given rules...by having a conscience. Feelings just appear out of nowhere that can lead us to make the right choices...or not.

 

And then when our minds are more developed, we see that the overlying Golden rule (which was also given to us) is so applicable. Saves the trouble of trying to establish an endless list of rules.

 

For those whose minds aren't really developed, they don't consider the Golden rule, and continue harming themselves and others. They might also not listen to their conscience...or (who knows if this is true) they might not even have one.

 

About whether aliens know right from wrong...well who knows. I tend to think of morality as only a human thing; although it often applies with animals too, I guess.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Some people spend a lifetime in jail for smoking weed. Here in Holland i do it in the park while having a beer and enjoying the scenery.

 

I hate you.

 

 

 

 

 

No I don't

 

I too have lived the frog scenario i had never killed another animal. My friends killed and tortured the frogs, tearing their legs off. I simple could not. I wasn't disgusted or scared. Even at that age i could not understand what they derived out of ending another creatures life. I still do not today. That is just pure evil at a young age. When you grow up and you have a conscience and a better understanding of write and wrong and you still give into those evil impulses, that is EVIL on a whole different level.

 

Damn. See, I never hung out with people that gave me the creeps, so I never had a frog scenario growing up Plus I had very domineering parents which told me it was wrong anyway, and I was instilled with the notion that "good" kids do what their parents say, so all the way around I was covered

 

And that algorithm i think is the absolute good and bad of the universe. But how can we ever know it, and why are we kept so far away from it?

 

I don't know how we can ever know it. I don't know that it is based on absolute good and bad. There are people who profit from "bad" deeds, live long lives and retire in comfort, while "good" people toil away, doing the right thing, and are abused and exploited by people doing "bad" things.

 

If karma is based on "good" and "bad", then it works on a very, VERY delayed mechanism.

 

And yes. It is true there are people benefiting from evil now and those receiving evil in return for their kindness. Do the good suffer because they were evil before and simply have evil karma to burn? Do the evil now live lavishly because they did good deeds in their past life, but will suffer again in their next? I don't know honestly. lol But its intriguing to think about.

 

It is intriguing, and leads me to doubt the conclusion that it is based on any inherent sense of "good" or "bad". If it is, then again, it is on a seriously delayed time mechanism. You have to cycle through a new life before you have to cash in your "evil" chips? Or your "good" chips? Hm.

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying one way or the other in any of this. It is a personal belief of mine that this stuff can be known through direct experience, meditation and all that good stuff. Until I reach a point where I can know all of this stuff for sure, I just make observations and take theories and models under advisement.

 

It would be "nice" if the world worked on a basis of "good" and "bad". Why do I think that? Because I am "good" and I want to get rewarded? Awful selfish. Because I think it would be convenient? That's awfully lazy. Because I want the universe to have order, for there to be a cosmic system that will protect me in the long run? Sounds like I'm a child wanting a parent to take care of me.

 

I don't want to follow a convenient truth. I want the truth to stand on its own merit, and if it is convenient, well that's just grand. If it isn't.... well, that's that.

[effilang]

I think karma can happen instantaneously or in a very delayed manner. Assuming, of course, the "cause and effect" model of karma

 

This is the conclusion i have come to as well Sloppy, through observation.

 

If you pay attention to your life during the day. Everything that happens, everything that is said and how that relates to everything that you have said and done. You will see that it almost always matches correspondingly. I say almost, because the mismatches, so to say, are karmic manifestations of actions you have already forgotten you have made.

 

But if you have a really good memory, or simply exercise to keep track of these things, you will notice. A week, a Month, a Year, a Decade in the future things will manifest proportionately in positivity or negativity in your life based on something you did. I think our minds are simply weak at this point in evolution to account for everything accurately, but i can imagine, and i have read this in the texts, that because trained meditators can see very far back they can LINK everything together. And it all makes sense, just like that.

 

Our handicap in not being able to track every direct manifestation of karma i think is a memory issue. I have heard that at some point after you open i think the throat chakra or the 3rd eye that you can see back into all your lives and link everything together.

 

Have you ever thought how funny it is that LIVE is EVIL backwards? : )

 

 

 

[deci belle]

[C T]

[Sloppy Zhang]

Our handicap in not being able to track every direct manifestation of karma i think is a memory issue.

 

I think it can also be an "awareness of the act" issue. We do many things reflexively or out of habit. How often do we consciously weigh each decision, and deliberately do every little action? Very rarely. But it is those actions that we remember quite clearly, because we have flagged them as important. Events that aren't important (habits, reactions, etc etc) aren't flagged by the brain as important, so we don't remember them. Which I guess then becomes a memory issue

 

But yeah, it would be quite illuminating to see into past lives. Even if not all of them, but maybe the last two, three, or four. But I think without the proper awareness training, you would still only see the highlights- "wow, I fought in the civil war", "wow, I was an Egyptian high priest", "wow, I was the President!" and the little things (the devil is in the details!) would still escape you

 

I don't even have perfect recall of this life, getting perfect recall of 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 100, 500??????? Crazy.