Love is?

[Aaron]

Hello folks,

 

Recently I have started writing a book on "Original Nature" or how man is intended to be. The crux of this book is founded on the principle of love, not necessarily love as we're taught to see love, but rather love as it is expressed naturally within each of us. I wanted to take the time to talk about this topic, because I think it's one of the most misunderstood principles within our original nature and I'd like to hear other people's insights into the topic.

 

First let me start off by defining love as I see it. Love in its natural form is often referred to as compassion and that is perhaps the best way to describe it, but the problem arises in the sense that people can feel compassion (as they know it) for another person and not feel love, so when one thinks of love, what they often think of is an intense emotional attachment to another person, attachment in the sense that they feel connected to that person. Now this isn't necessarily a dishonest definition of love, but in my opinion it does nothing to define love in its natural form, rather it is defining the love that is changed, and perhaps a bit twisted, by society.

 

Love, in its natural form, is not defined by society, culture, or mores, but rather by the human heart, that part of us that lives and thrives and works in mysterious ways, that perhaps shouldn't be so mysterious, but as are so many things about us, is cluttered away under so many ideas and conventions. It is at its most basic level a sense of connection with all things, inanimate and animate. It is a connection with things sentient and non-sentient, it is an impulse that, if freed and allowed to be as its meant to be, can fill us with, not only the desire for others well being, but our own as well.

 

Love in this sense is universal, it exists within all things, whether we know it or not. It is not simply an expression of brain matter, but an actual expression of the universe at work within and without. Some may call it God or whatever, but I think that takes away from it, because it gives it some form of intelligence and motivation that it doesn't have, because love, in its genuine and natural form is not motivated, but rather moved. It is that feeling for another that arises from deep within and drives us to do things that perhaps we wouldn't do, whether it is the man who, without thinking of his own well being, runs into a burning building to save his fellow man, or the woman who stops and gives money to the homeless man on the corner so that he can eat. Yet even these examples aren't necessarily adequate, because love is even more than that, it is bonding and connecting on such a deep level, that if it is touched and allowed to act of its own accord, it will make the bond between a mother and child look dispassionate, because this kind of love transcends physical bonds, it is as if every child was your child, and every mother was your mother.

 

When one experiences this kind of love, then the need to express it can't be quelled, but in the same way they cannot express it in a negative way, because there is no way to express this natural love negatively, simply because it transcends mores and morality, it transcends labels and ideology, it transcends logic and reason, because to most people there is no logic or reason attached to it.

 

If this doesn't make sense, don't feel bad, for most people it doesn't, simply because we've been taught that love is a conditioned response. An example would be my first love, some 25 years ago, when I was still a child and I felt this overwhelming attraction for a boy, a blonde haired, brown eyed boy, one year my junior, who had some quality within him that I couldn't quite understand. I wanted so much to kiss that boy and hug him, all those pure things that seem to come with juvenile infatuation (at least in those early years of pubescence), but I always feared it might ruin it, so instead I enjoyed the time that I spent with him. He was my first love in the classical sense, but what was really happening? Was it love that I was feeling, or was it something else.

 

If this wasn't love, then what was it? Well perhaps it happened because society had taught me to seek out certain attributes in others, to find those attributes attractive? Perhaps it was a hormonal response? Perhaps though, it was real love? The fact that I had no sexual feelings for the boy, but rather a deep abiding desire to be around him, not as best friends, but something deeper, that spurred me to bond with him. In the end though, it wasn't that natural love that I am talking about, but something else, yet to describe it as anything but love wouldn't be true either.

 

So in this sense the love that arises naturally, the unconditional love within that is a higher form of love, perhaps Te or even virtue, in the sense of higher virtue, is no less real than the love that is expressed in a deeper connection between two people and it should, in no way, devalue one or the other, but rather it should help us to understand even more clearly the nature of love as it dwells in those mysterious recesses of the human heart, because just as one develops this deep bond for another in adolescence, we also develop an even deeper bond for all of life from the first moment we can begin to think, when we are within the womb listening to the sound of our mother's heart wash over us. It is there that love begins and that love is unadulterated, it is there that we feel the connection, no the need for one to another, an intimate connection.

 

After birth, when we realize that the world does not just consist of our mother (and for me brother) and ourselves, but rather in a whole myriad of experiences that we also have a great desire to understand the world around us. When we are young we can love anyone, regardless of color, creed, or looks. The ugly man or beautiful woman holds no sway over our heart, rather it is their expression towards us that allows us to express our own feelings towards them. Is it unconditional, even then? No. It is conditioned on how they treat us and we treat them. In the beginning love is not so much a factor in our connection to others, really, rather it is the binding need we have for others that propels us forward, so in that sense how can we say that there is even a thing such as natural love, or a binding love that connects us to all things?

 

Well to put it simply, that potential for love is altered at its inception, by the things we are taught by others. Our potential to love everyone equally, to see all men as our fathers, all women as our mothers, and all children as our brothers, is stripped away when we begin to learn to define others as individuals that warrant degrees of love. If we were never taught this, then we would hold the same amount of love for everyone regardless, that's not conjecture mind you, there were cultures that practiced this kind of child rearing, and those cultures seemed to possess a level of compassion and sharing that mystified the westerners that happened upon them.

 

Anyways, to get back on track, this form of love exists within us, it hasn't been wiped away, I can attest to that fact, and when one feels it, their perception of the world drastically changes. The pain and suffering caused by one to another is not mystifying, because they know where it comes from, but it is compelling on a deeply emotional level. It is hard to watch someone suffer and not do anything about it. It is hard to sit idly by while the world seems to be sinking into a deep darkness, yet at the same time there is hope, because in feeling this love they also know the potential for change that this love has, not as a mysterious energy wave to be nurtured within, but rather as an action to be expressed between one and another. It is the ability to know when to help another and when, perhaps, helping will do more harm. It is the ability to give food without thought of good or bad, but rather because it is hard to watch someone hungry. It is the ability to jump into the riptide to save a child, even knowing that you may not survive trying, simply because you see the value in that child's life, how much that child deserves to be saved.

 

Anyways, I have a tendency to drag on and I don't want to do that now, so I will leave it here and wait for others to respond. I know many people might not agree with my ideas, but I wanted to express them anyways.

 

I say with love, because I do have a great deal of love for all of you and I express it in this way, not with the intention of pushing my love on you, but rather letting you know it is there and it lives within me, just as you do.

 

With love,

 

Aaron

Edited August 16, 2011 by Twinner

[Raz]

[Marblehead]

 

Sorry Aaron. Just an alternative view.

[Stigweard]

What is love? Easily answered....

 

Love is my wife putting up with all my shit and her still being happy enough to wash my underwear.

 

[C T]

In my opinion, love is the energy, when clung on to too tightly, begins to create an opposing force, and together, sustains the entire spectrum of cyclical existence.

[tulku]

[Birch]

[Dainin]

Another alternative view. Staggering in it's profundity (profoundness?), it highlights some of the the differences between love and Tao, the watercourse way...

 

 

[C T]

Now that's weird. I had an idea similar to that a while back. Now I just don't know:-)

I'm not very good with one-word definitions. Perhaps

Love is just conditional and that's it. Pointless to go off hunting for the kind that isn't because it doesn't exist.

Or, maybe you could just feel it regardless of conditions. I don't think it does much harm. I'm not referring to the attachment stuff which I don't know much about either but that one doesn't seem to go down as well because it's dependent on things that change.

I think (as usual) knowing the difference for yourself is going to beat what anyone says:-)

Hi Miss K,

 

Kwik qwestion - Are you saying its okay to go hunting for the kind of love that people think is what's missing, and upon thinking they have found the 'perfect' love, that it somehow completes them? Or did you want to mean it some other way?

 

Its an interesting thing to mull over, nonetheless.

 

Are you also saying that all love is conditional?

Edited August 16, 2011 by CowTao

[Birch]

Hi Miss K,

 

Kwik qwestion - Are you saying its okay to go hunting for the kind of love that people think is what's missing, and upon thinking they have found the 'perfect' love, that it somehow completes them? Or did you want to mean it some other way?

 

Its an interesting thing to mull over, nonetheless.

 

Are you also saying that all love is conditional?

No, I was wondering (aloud) whether upon realising that at least some love is conditional one would decide to attempt to find any that isn't. I think that's what might happen.

And I was mulling over the idea that if you want to feel love without conditions then you just decide to do it. But that won't hold up if you actually believe that love is conditional. You'd just end up imposing conditions on yourself, which is counterproductive :-)

I don't know if that answers the question. I guess I'm suggesting one accepts the conditional type and that one cultivates the unconditional type in oneself and then I guess your bases are covered;-) Or, you could just stop worrying about it.

[Marblehead]

Another alternative view.

 

Yeah, the Gibbs sang about love a lot. I have many of their LPs (until they went Disco).

[Aaron]

 

Sorry Aaron. Just an alternative view.

 

 

LOL... great song. I get your point.

 

Aaron

[tulku]

Love is an feeling of illusion created by our Consciousness/Dao/Creator is order to reinforce our sense of the Matrix Holographic Universe we live in.

 

It is only by looking through or destroying the the feeling of love then do we begin to see our reality for the Matrix for the Great Illusion that it is.

[suninmyeyes]

Love is a cosmic glue force with healing properties.

[tulku]

Love is a cosmic glue force with healing properties.

 

that is a dual concept..

 

i am looking for a non-dual reality.. without love, without hate.. just pure consciousness..

[Marblehead]

Love is an feeling of illusion created by our Consciousness/Dao/Creator is order to reinforce our sense of the Matrix Holographic Universe we live in.

 

It is only by looking through or destroying the the feeling of love then do we begin to see our reality for the Matrix for the Great Illusion that it is.

 

You just said the same thing in the "Desire" thread.

 

How did you get stuck in the Matrix?

[Marblehead]

that is a dual concept..

 

i am looking for a non-dual reality.. without love, without hate.. just pure consciousness..

 

 

I deleted my obscene post.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Marblehead

[suninmyeyes]

Oh no Marbels what I shame I have missed your post!I hope you didnt say what I think you did..

 

that is a dual concept..

 

i am looking for a non-dual reality.. without love, without hate.. just pure consciousness..

Well stop looking than and start shining compassion instead of loving as Vmarco told me she does.Just shine your life away.You could start by visualising yourself as a torch I guess.And than progress onto bed lite,than onto street lamp etc.

[Birch]

that is a dual concept..

 

i am looking for a non-dual reality.. without love, without hate.. just pure consciousness..

 

It's the"..." that joins them. Like you need silence between notes to hear music.

 

Oh, I forget. my 2cts.

 

And what's pure consciousness looking for then?

[mYTHmAKER]

It's the"..." that joins them. Like you need silence between notes to hear music.

 

Oh, I forget. my 2cts.

 

And what's pure consciousness looking for then?

 

The silence - space - between the breaths

The silence - space - between the notes in music

The silence - space - between people in love

The space - within a teacup that creates the form

The silence - what is unspoken is what truly speaks

[Seth Ananda]

 

i am looking for a non-dual reality.. without love, without hate.. just pure consciousness..

That will be deeply satisfying to your mind but not your heart. Complete reality will bring total fulfilment to all your systems while remaining non Dual.

 

If there is a love that is a natural part of that all Inclusive Openness, how can it have an opposite?

 

Mystics from every tradition in the world, realise the Natural Love with out conditions, that seems to be the force of the world itself, the energy that holds us all together, and takes us beyond appearances...

[suninmyeyes]

tulku,

Love and hate are forces that are part of this existance ,they will not cease to exist.They just are.And there will not disspear due to the 'pure conesciousness'.

'Pure conesciousness'(I am not too keen on that expression myself)is not a cleaning agent ,it is a state of being .

This is how I do it and am writing it as one of the possibilities or ways ,there are many ways and you need to find something suitable for your personality.

Here is my suggestion:

Carefully pay attention throughout the day dont stop ,do it always,as patiently as you can, noting what you are indentifying with.Where are your thoughts coming from?What makes particular thought arise?If it comes often and start forming pattern?Why?

When you find out why you will break the pattern and identification with that thought .Note this closley.How does it feel?Is it a feeling or do you translate it as a feeling?Who is it that translates it as a feeling?

Like this start digging ,uprooting your belief system ,a structure that makes you tulku .

Dont stop ,no matter what.

Note the currents of forces present in you and all around you.Do you want to be swayed by all of them?By any psychic wind that blows a little?What are you identfiying with,if angry why?If joyfull why?What are moods?What makes a mood ?Again do you want to identify with your moods?

Learn to pick and choose,be creative creator.

What makes me me?Be aware of this always.Dig,dig,dig.

And learn to choose from which place to act by constantly working like this.What feels right?Not letting things escape you.And if they do ,it doesent matter do it again.

If you are looking for non duality like this you may find it ,when you do you may understand that you were never away from it.Even when you had great desire for jerk chicken or were making love .

Than again you may prefer something different that suits you better personally.

[Adishakti]

We had a crash course on what love is (when I was 13) in the music class. Off course I was in group five made to sit far away as I didn't know how to sing. This was the song that decided my fate, as belonging to group five was the worst thing you did to yourself. But as it turns out it worked in my favor, I sat quietly and breathed in and out. My first meditation class. Hahah

 

The Rose Lyrics for you:

 

Some say love, it is a river

That drowns the tender reed

Some say love, it is a razor

That leaves your soul to bleed

Some say love, it is a hunger

An endless aching need

I say love, it is a flower

And you, its only seed

 

It's the heart, afraid of breaking

That never learns to dance

It's the dream, afraid of waking

That never takes the chance

It's the one who won't be taken

Who cannot seem to give

And the soul, afraid of dying

That never learns to live

 

When the night has been too lonely

And the road has been too long

And you think that love is only

for the lucky and the strong

Just remember in the winter

Far beneath the bitter snow

Lies the seed

That with the sun's love, in the spring

Becomes the rose

[Marblehead]

That will be deeply satisfying to your mind but not your heart. Complete reality will bring total fulfilment to all your systems while remaining non Dual.

 

Always a pleasure seeing statements such as this from you.

[Marblehead]

The Rose Lyrics for you:

 

WoW! I can see why that effected you. Thanks for the share.