Love is?

[tulku]

tulku,

Love and hate are forces that are part of this existance ,they will not cease to exist.They just are.And there will not disspear due to the 'pure conesciousness'.

'Pure conesciousness'(I am not too keen on that expression myself)is not a cleaning agent ,it is a state of being .

This is how I do it and am writing it as one of the possibilities or ways ,there are many ways and you need to find something suitable for your personality.

Here is my suggestion:

Carefully pay attention throughout the day dont stop ,do it always,as patiently as you can, noting what you are indentifying with.Where are your thoughts coming from?What makes particular thought arise?If it comes often and start forming pattern?Why?

When you find out why you will break the pattern and identification with that thought .Note this closley.How does it feel?Is it a feeling or do you translate it as a feeling?Who is it that translates it as a feeling?

Like this start digging ,uprooting your belief system ,a structure that makes you tulku .

Dont stop ,no matter what.

Note the currents of forces present in you and all around you.Do you want to be swayed by all of them?By any psychic wind that blows a little?What are you identfiying with,if angry why?If joyfull why?What are moods?What makes a mood ?Again do you want to identify with your moods?

Learn to pick and choose,be creative creator.

What makes me me?Be aware of this always.Dig,dig,dig.

And learn to choose from which place to act by constantly working like this.What feels right?Not letting things escape you.And if they do ,it doesent matter do it again.

If you are looking for non duality like this you may find it ,when you do you may understand that you were never away from it.Even when you had great desire for jerk chicken or were making love .

Than again you may prefer something different that suits you better personally.

 

this existence is an illusion created by pure consciousness and love/hate/desires/feelings are just tools used by the illusion to create the lie that you are a limited being when in fact you are the Infinite Creator himself..

 

as a god which the Infinite Creator and You are, as You and I and the Infinite Creator are one and the same, we do not feel love or hate or desires or feelings, we may experience love and hate and desires/feelings but once we tear apart the Great Illusion, love and hate and desires/feelings will not control you anymore than the air brushing on your fingers..

[tulku]

That will be deeply satisfying to your mind but not your heart. Complete reality will bring total fulfilment to all your systems while remaining non Dual.

 

If there is a love that is a natural part of that all Inclusive Openness, how can it have an opposite?

 

Mystics from every tradition in the world, realise the Natural Love with out conditions, that seems to be the force of the world itself, the energy that holds us all together, and takes us beyond appearances...

 

How do you know what I will feel?

 

When I do anapana, during the few moments of pure consciousness, my heart soared much higher than with any mere woman.

 

A loving relationship with the Creator/Dao/Consciousness is a much more intimate/spiritual and much more rewarding relationship than just a worldly relationship with a mere man/woman.

 

Pure Consciousness is much much more encompassing than just mere love as love is just one small facet of Pure Consciousness itself.

[Marblehead]

this existence is an illusion created by pure consciousness and love/hate/desires/feelings are just tools used by the illusion to create the lie that you are a limited being when in fact you are the Infinite Creator himself..

 

as a god which the Infinite Creator and You are, as You and I and the Infinite Creator are one and the same, we do not feel love or hate or desires or feelings, we may experience love and hate and desires/feelings but once we tear apart the Great Illusion, love and hate and desires/feelings will not control you anymore than the air brushing on your fingers..

 

I am sure you are aware that I do not agree with this understanding but I am going to try to keep out of this thread as much as I can even though I will be reading all the posts.

[Aaron]

How do you know what I will feel?

 

When I do anapana, during the few moments of pure consciousness, my heart soared much higher than with any mere woman.

 

A loving relationship with the Creator/Dao/Consciousness is a much more intimate/spiritual and much more rewarding relationship than just a worldly relationship with a mere man/woman.

 

Pure Consciousness is much much more encompassing than just mere love as love is just one small facet of Pure Consciousness itself.

 

 

Hello Tulku,

 

I would like to hear what you are describing as pure consciousness. When I reach, what I think you're referring to, my heart never soars, rather I feel very grounded, not peaceful, but not afraid, just a state of being where I feel centered. I would never all it wonderful per se, not a soaring experience, rather a feeling of purpose without purpose. Yes I think purpose without purpose would be an even better explanation. This is one reason I've always questioned the reason for the Bodhisatva Vow or whatever it's called, because I've never felt the need to go out and convert others to my way of thinking, in fact other than this website I rarely ever speak of these things, rather I try and behave in a compassionate and loving way.

 

To bring this back on topic though, if you experience pure consciousness, what you do become aware of, is the connection between all things, not only living, but also what we might consider not living, that in a sense everything is living and alive. What happens is that you become aware that natural love, the love I'm talking about has always been there, and all it took was opening your heart-mind to see it.

 

Aaron

[tulku]

Hello Tulku,

 

I would like to hear what you are describing as pure consciousness. When I reach, what I think you're referring to, my heart never soars, rather I feel very grounded, not peaceful, but not afraid, just a state of being where I feel centered. I would never all it wonderful per se, not a soaring experience, rather a feeling of purpose without purpose. Yes I think purpose without purpose would be an even better explanation. This is one reason I've always questioned the reason for the Bodhisatva Vow or whatever it's called, because I've never felt the need to go out and convert others to my way of thinking, in fact other than this website I rarely ever speak of these things, rather I try and behave in a compassionate and loving way.

 

To bring this back on topic though, if you experience pure consciousness, what you do become aware of, is the connection between all things, not only living, but also what we might consider not living, that in a sense everything is living and alive. What happens is that you become aware that natural love, the love I'm talking about has always been there, and all it took was opening your heart-mind to see it.

 

Aaron

 

Pure consciousness is greater, far far greater than love.

 

No woman or man or mere living thing can replace the glory, power and beauty of the Universe/Dao/Creator.

 

This is why sages of all faiths have renounced the mundane world to seek for the Ultimate Love Relationship with the Universe/Dao/Creator.

Edited August 17, 2011 by tulku

[Aaron]

Pure consciousness is greater, far far greater than love.

 

No woman or man or mere living thing can replace the glory, power and beauty of the Universe/Dao/Creator.

 

This is why sages of all faiths have renounced the mundane world to seek for the Ultimate Love Relationship with the Universe/Dao/Creator.

 

 

Okay so if we keep going like this, we'll just be going in circles, so let me ask you this, do you understand my point? My point is, because we have a physical being, we cannot be free of that state of being, the most we can do is become aware of the nature of that being and in becoming aware of that nature, understand it. With that in mind. I think we're having the same discussion in multiple threads, so I'll leave it at that. If you don't understand, that's fine, but if you do, perhaps you could say something to the effect of, "I understand what you're saying, I just believe what I believe."

 

I will say that I understand what you're saying and I have been aware of the holographic universe for some time. I read the book "The Holographic Universe" years ago and it was wonderfully eye opening and I actually believed much as you do for some time, but with decades of experience my beliefs were changed by experiences.

 

I think if I offered you any advice it would be simply to examine your experience and compare it your ideas and see how the two mesh. If they mesh then you are on your way to some great realizations, however if they don't then it would behoove you to look deeper.

 

Consider this my flag of truce.

 

Aaron

[tulku]

Okay so if we keep going like this, we'll just be going in circles, so let me ask you this, do you understand my point? My point is, because we have a physical being, we cannot be free of that state of being, the most we can do is become aware of the nature of that being and in becoming aware of that nature, understand it. With that in mind. I think we're having the same discussion in multiple threads, so I'll leave it at that. If you don't understand, that's fine, but if you do, perhaps you could say something to the effect of, "I understand what you're saying, I just believe what I believe."

 

I will say that I understand what you're saying and I have been aware of the holographic universe for some time. I read the book "The Holographic Universe" years ago and it was wonderfully eye opening and I actually believed much as you do for some time, but with decades of experience my beliefs were changed by experiences.

 

I think if I offered you any advice it would be simply to examine your experience and compare it your ideas and see how the two mesh. If they mesh then you are on your way to some great realizations, however if they don't then it would behoove you to look deeper.

 

Consider this my flag of truce.

 

Aaron

 

It is the free will behind our actions that has created our karma in the first place, and so free will can also change our destiny if we put the proper free-willed actions into effect. We are always influenced by thoughts and emotions that impel us this way or that, but it is our choice to listen or not listen to these things that constitutes our free will. Choose correctly your actions in spite of all the mental chatter and you can create a glorious future, even if the present seems bleak. On the other hand, choose unwisely by succumbing to wrong notions and the future will become something you would rather not experience. So while the capacity to choose a course of action is our free will, this capacity for free will does not permit freedom from the consequences of our choices.

 

No truce needed for I have never fought with you in the first place.

Edited August 17, 2011 by tulku

[Informer]

Pure consciousness is greater, far far greater than love.

 

No woman or man or mere living thing can replace the glory, power and beauty of the Universe/Dao/Creator.

 

This is why sages of all faiths have renounced the mundane world to seek for the Ultimate Love Relationship with the Universe/Dao/Creator.

 

Tulku must be an RT TROLL.

 

1st of all, you haven't even found the third eye.

 

2nd of all, you haven't found the love center.

 

So how can you make any such claims?

[tulku]

Tulku must be an RT TROLL.

 

1st of all, you haven't even found the third eye.

 

2nd of all, you haven't found the love center.

 

So how can you make any such claims?

 

Peace be with you and may you find the Ultimate Truth.

[Marblehead]

It is the free will behind our actions that has created our karma in the first place, and so free will can also change our destiny if we put the proper free-willed actions into effect. We are always influenced by thoughts and emotions that impel us this way or that, but it is our choice to listen or not listen to these things that constitutes our free will. Choose correctly your actions in spite of all the mental chatter and you can create a glorious future, even if the present seems bleak. On the other hand, choose unwisely by succumbing to wrong notions and the future will become something you would rather not experience. So while the capacity to choose a course of action is our free will, this capacity for free will does not permit freedom from the consequences of our choices.

 

Okay. You have given me reason to agree with you so I must state this fact. (Of course, I don't talk about karma, I talk about cause and effect but that is beside the point.)

[Informer]

Xabir, are you trying to break your BODHISATTVA VOWS?

 

http://www.bodhicitta.net/BODHISATTVAVOWS.htm

[Aaron]

It is the free will behind our actions that has created our karma in the first place, and so free will can also change our destiny if we put the proper free-willed actions into effect. We are always influenced by thoughts and emotions that impel us this way or that, but it is our choice to listen or not listen to these things that constitutes our free will. Choose correctly your actions in spite of all the mental chatter and you can create a glorious future, even if the present seems bleak. On the other hand, choose unwisely by succumbing to wrong notions and the future will become something you would rather not experience. So while the capacity to choose a course of action is our free will, this capacity for free will does not permit freedom from the consequences of our choices.

 

No truce needed for I have never fought with you in the first place.

 

 

You should cite your quotes, otherwise it's plagiarism. Second, if you haven't realized that the flag of truce was an attempt to meet at some middle ground, then I don't know what else to say, except toodle loo. Have fun in your holography.

 

Aaron

[Seth Ananda]

How do you know what I will feel?

 

When I do anapana, during the few moments of pure consciousness, my heart soared much higher than with any mere woman.

 

A loving relationship with the Creator/Dao/Consciousness is a much more intimate/spiritual and much more rewarding relationship than just a worldly relationship with a mere man/woman.

 

Pure Consciousness is much much more encompassing than just mere love as love is just one small facet of Pure Consciousness itself.

Hehe that the love I was talking about. The Unconditioned Love of which relationship lofe is just a small facet of...

But just to clarify something, many great sages including some who are considered among the greatest, also had relationships. That great Love does not exclude the possibility of Loving a good Woman. Padmasambhava and Lady Yeshe Tsogal, the Baal Shem Tov and his wife, nearly all the Kabbalists and Sufi's as having a wife was usually a requirement of those paths...

 

And also there are forms of Enlightenment that are not really satisfying to the heart, such as the Advaita pure awareness attainment. It gets described as 'dry' by those who have gone further... When you attain this however, you would not think anything was missing, till the state deepened and started Including the world more, and then your heart 'really' starts bursting at the seams, and you realise what you were missing. {heart wise}

There are plenty of records of this kind of thing.

 

Back on to 'love is' though, I like to think that Love is feeling at one with something. When you and your partner are in that early stage of Idealising each other, and feeling that you are perfect for each other, and when differences 'complement' each other and have not started to 'grate' on each other then because of the feelings of being 'at one' there is Love...

I find it sad that a state like this that should be our birthright, we should all have things that we feel at one with, but especially the Natural world, as this causes Great Love - is the reason so many relationships are fucked up.

Society has moulded people to believe that real Love is only available to us through the relationship structure.

We all want and need Love, but when we erroneously believe that we can only get it through a relationship, that puts a lot of control dramas in place within a relationship, not to mention fears. All of a sudden, people are afraid of 'loosing' love and start jealously eyeing off every move their partner makes. Think of all the crimes of passion, murders and suicides that have come from this terror of loosing ones only source of love.

 

If we were taught from child hood to appreciate and be at one with Nature, and what ever grand unifying force one perceives as underlying it, we would all have an abundant supply of love, and that would put a lot less demand on our partners.

Its my experience that when one has 'Big Love' jealousy goes out the window.

That is also why I no longer go out with partners who are not Mystics themselves.

 

Blessings! Seth.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Seth Ananda

[stan herman]

Coming into this late. Twinner I admire your effort to 'deal' with "love". I'm put in mind of the old saying, "Whatever the question, love is the answer". At the same time I find the whole string of responses you got to be perceptive and daunting to the claim of its natural unique importance. Recognizing you're already aware of the domains of both the numinous and the mundane, I won't belabor the point of love as only one of many feelings/emotions that disguise reality for us. So just speaking in the mundane aspect, I'd say if I had to pick an element of worldly relevance, I'd say truth is the more important. Love (or well intended compassion) can and does often smother the quest for truth, as it becomes for many/most more appropriate to 'be nice and comforting' than to tell it like it is.

[tulku]

Hehe that the love I was talking about. The Unconditioned Love of which relationship lofe is just a small facet of...

But just to clarify something, many great sages including some who are considered among the greatest, also had relationships. That great Love does not exclude the possibility of Loving a good Woman. Padmasambhava and Lady Yeshe Tsogal, the Baal Shem Tov and his wife, nearly all the Kabbalists and Sufi's as having a wife was usually a requirement of those paths...

 

And also there are forms of Enlightenment that are not really satisfying to the heart, such as the Advaita pure awareness attainment. It gets described as 'dry' by those who have gone further... When you attain this however, you would not think anything was missing, till the state deepened and started Including the world more, and then your heart 'really' starts bursting at the seams, and you realise what you were missing. {heart wise}

There are plenty of records of this kind of thing.

 

Back on to 'love is' though, I like to think thatLove is feeling at one with something. When you and your partner are in that early stage of Idealising each other, and feeling that you are perfect for each other, and when differences 'complement' each other and have not started to 'grate' on each other then because of the feelings of being 'at one' there is Love...

I find it sad that a state like this that should be our birthright, we should all have things that we feel at one with, but especially the Natural world, as this causes Great Love - is the reason so many relationships are fucked up.

Society has moulded people to believe that real Love is only available to us through the relationship structure.

We all want and need Love, but when we erroneously believe that we can only get it through a relationship, that puts a lot of control dramas in place within a relationship, not to mention fears. All of a sudden, people are afraid of 'loosing' love and start jealously eyeing off every move their partner makes. Think of all the crimes of passion, murders and suicides that have come from this terror of loosing ones only source of love.

 

If we were taught from child hood to appreciate and be at one with Nature, and what ever grand unifying force one perceives as underlying it, we would all have an abundant supply of love, and that would put a lot less demand on our partners.

Its my experience that when one has 'Big Love' jealousy goes out the window.

That is also why I no longer go out with partners who are not Mystics themselves.

 

Blessings! Seth.

 

I now understand now.

 

The biggest Love, the only Love, one should ever only look for is the Love within one's own heart.

 

This is why some of the highest practitioners I know remain single.

 

When you have found Love within yourself, what's the need to engage in relationships?

[Marblehead]

Nice considerations Stan.

[tulku]

Coming into this late. Twinner I admire your effort to 'deal' with "love". I'm put in mind of the old saying, "Whatever the question, love is the answer". At the same time I find the whole string of responses you got to be perceptive and daunting to the claim of its natural unique importance. Recognizing you're already aware of the domains of both the numinous and the mundane, I won't belabor the point of love as only one of many feelings/emotions that disguise reality for us. So just speaking in the mundane aspect, I'd say if I had to pick an element of worldly relevance, I'd say truth is the more important. Love (or well intended compassion) can and does often smother the quest for truth, as it becomes for many/most more appropriate to 'be nice and comforting' than to tell it like it is.

 

How about.. the Truth of Love/Compassion?

[Seth Ananda]

Tulku must be an RT TROLL.

 

1st of all, you haven't even found the third eye.

 

2nd of all, you haven't found the love center.

 

So how can you make any such claims?

Face Palm! Groan... Are you trying to funny here or are you really that paranoid?

 

For one, RT loathes any talk about pure consciousness, and two, he has described his heart soaring during meditation.

 

Really do you read the previous pages or do you just click open the last page and come in and randomly type responses to the first thing you see...?

Edited August 17, 2011 by Seth Ananda

[stan herman]

How about.. the Truth of Love/Compassion?

 

Sure, when it's true love and compassion, not when it's being nice and helpful because that's what you're supposed to do.

[tulku]

Sure, when it's true love and compassion, not when it's being nice and helpful because that's what you're supposed to do.

 

the Truth of Love/Compassion

Edited August 17, 2011 by tulku

[Informer]

Face Palm! Groan... Are you trying to funny here or are you really that paranoid?

 

For one, RT loathes any talk about pure consciousness, and two, he has described his heart soaring during meditation.

 

Really do you read the previous pages or do you just click open the last page and come in and randomly type responses to the first thing you see...?

 

 

Are you that naive? It's obviously xabir in disguise.

 

:ninja:

[Informer]

I think the best way to determine what love is, is through deduction.

 

By determining not it is not, you better understand what it is.

 

[suninmyeyes]

this existence is an illusion created by pure consciousness and love/hate/desires/feelings are just tools used by the illusion to create the lie that you are a limited being when in fact you are the Infinite Creator himself..

 

as a god which the Infinite Creator and You are, as You and I and the Infinite Creator are one and the same, we do not feel love or hate or desires or feelings, we may experience love and hate and desires/feelings but once we tear apart the Great Illusion, love and hate and desires/feelings will not control you anymore than the air brushing on your fingers..

How do you know if you have never tried?Maybe that is a lie too?

 

My belief is that life is just expressing herself. That is all.

And the beat goes on.

[stan herman]

I think the best way to determine what love is, is through deduction.

 

By determining not it is not, you better understand what it is.

 

 

To me "Love" is no more than a word--a grossly overused word that seems to serve as a patch-work cover for almost any sort of pleasurable feeling experienced by or aspired to by the user. My personal feeling is, that's too bad.

[Marblehead]

 

My belief is that life is just expressing herself. That is all.

And the beat goes on.

 

I like to think that everything is an expression of Tao but I like what you just said too.