Self Moderation

[mjjbecker]

We would not require moderators if the participants of TTB's moderated their own behaviour and followed the rules as set out by Sean. Given this, why are we having various discussions about the moderators and their actions? Surely we are just ignoring our own behaviour when we should be focusing on that more than anything else.

 

If the moderators are needed at all, and if the moderators feel compelled to act in order to censure members, then it is for us-the members-here to question our own behaviour and motives first.

 

Life is not 'fair'. Moderators are not perfect. Nor are forum members. Look first to your own behaviour before having a go at the moderators. There will be many people here, myself included, that could have taken a lot more care over what we have posted at times. We should spend our time dealing with our own behaviour first.

 

If you want to make the moderators redundant, then do so by not behaving in a manner that requires the moderators to act.

[Marblehead]

Well, you are getting a lot of points for that post.

 

Well said!

[goldisheavy]

We would not require moderators if the participants of TTB's moderated their own behaviour and followed the rules as set out by Sean. Given this, why are we having various discussions about the moderators and their actions? Surely we are just ignoring our own behaviour when we should be focusing on that more than anything else.

 

If the moderators are needed at all, and if the moderators feel compelled to act in order to censure members, then it is for us-the members-here to question our own behaviour and motives first.

 

Life is not 'fair'. Moderators are not perfect. Nor are forum members. Look first to your own behaviour before having a go at the moderators. There will be many people here, myself included, that could have taken a lot more care over what we have posted at times. We should spend our time dealing with our own behaviour first.

 

If you want to make the moderators redundant, then do so by not behaving in a manner that requires the moderators to act.

 

You're plenty polite in a superficial way, but I don't like your behavior on this forum. So far I've refrained from complaining to moderators. I'm such a good boy.

 

In fact there are many polite people here I cannot stand. Like perfumed turds or shit wrapped in satin.

 

It's like moderating people based on what suits they wear and how they smell, without any regard to the substance and deeper meaning of behavior and intentions. It's a very corporate approach.

[Marblehead]

You're plenty polite in a superficial way, but I don't like your behavior on this forum. So far I've refrained from complaining to moderators. I'm such a good boy.

 

In fact there are many polite people here I cannot stand. Like perfumed turds or shit wrapped in satin.

 

It's like moderating people based on what suits they wear and how they smell, without any regard to the substance and deeper meaning of behavior and intentions. It's a very corporate approach.

 

Hehehe. I recall you said about the same thing about me. Have you seen any change in my interaction on this forum because of what you or anyone else has said about me?

 

But then, You are still the same old Gold you were when we first met. (That not right but you know what I mean.)

 

Yeah, some people are just naturally polite and others enjoy a little rough and tumble. That's part of what makes life so beautiful.

 

BTW You have done an outstanding job at moderating youself of late. You get one point for that.

[Jetsun]

In fact there are many polite people here I cannot stand. Like perfumed turds or shit wrapped in

 

Yes it's the contrived passive aggressive people who smile at you through gritted teeth that cause the

more serious problems, at least you know where you stand with an aggressive person who insults you.

[Marblehead]

Yes it's the contrived passive aggressive people who smile at you through gritted teeth that cause the

more serious problems, at least you know where you stand with an aggressive person who insults you.

 

Hey! I ain't even got no teeth!!!

[Birch]

Marblehead, that would count as a "drive by" in my book:-)

Reckon you really need to check in to get reassurance that you're not doing something reprehensible and smelling rose/turdy in the eyes of some smart people:-)?

I dunno, I guess I share distaste of overly "nice" folks that offer blessings and suggest folks go in peace while ripping them a new one. But isn't the way to handle those just another skill to be learned? Methinks so:-)

The mods might have more oomph to get rid of them but it won't improve my skill if I don't learn to spot them and deal or not deal with them in conversation.

GIH, the intent thing is interesting. Could you write more on it?

[JohnC]

We would not require moderators if the participants of TTB's moderated their own behaviour and followed the rules as set out by Sean. Given this, why are we having various discussions about the moderators and their actions? Surely we are just ignoring our own behaviour when we should be focusing on that more than anything else.

 

If the moderators are needed at all, and if the moderators feel compelled to act in order to censure members, then it is for us-the members-here to question our own behaviour and motives first.

 

Life is not 'fair'. Moderators are not perfect. Nor are forum members. Look first to your own behaviour before having a go at the moderators. There will be many people here, myself included, that could have taken a lot more care over what we have posted at times. We should spend our time dealing with our own behaviour first.

 

If you want to make the moderators redundant, then do so by not behaving in a manner that requires the moderators to act.

Over 9000.

[C T]

There is an idea about the art and science of communication. Apt communicators are prone to be flexible, adapting each response to suit immediate situational interactions. This is a useful skill generally, but more useful if one aspires to teach, or is gearing oneself to be a people manager.

 

No one likes aggressiveness when its not needed.

 

Just ask around... many corporate folks in positions of leadership gets stuck in a rut not because they lack the professional qualifications and knowledge in applications (the science) - its more because they are lacking in dimension with which to inspire team 'players' to achieve corporate goals, and this, as cliched as it may sound, requires tact, coercion, motivational skill, exemplary actions - these skillsets are all classified as the art aspect of management. Those who prefer not to engage as a team player seldom succeed in group environments - they get segregated and are avoided, and often wonder why its so.

 

 

 

In spiritual pursuits, there is a similar dynamic involved. Same in the Martial Arts/Science as well, i believe. And same with parenting too.

 

Art is when one applies soft compassion, for example, some do this by drawing inspiration from the likes of Guan Yin, Avalok, or some other personification of kind heartedness.

 

Science is when one knows when to cut thru all the bullshite and apply a bit of logic and tough love when necessary. Hard compassion - useful during emergency situations.

 

For this reason, practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism get to work not only with the 'nice' deities, but also the wrathful ones like Heruka, Yamantaka, Singdongma, Dzambala and so on - this facilitates the learning of assertiveness, alertness, awareness, etc, and when one has learnt to personify these warrior qualities, one gets to see others and self without any filters - just the bare facts are laid out in plain sight, fearlessly. Learning to work with the wrathful aspects does not mean cultivating aggressiveness - aggression is delusion-based, something which is not promoted in the Buddhist path.

 

 

Therefore, in self moderation, its not enough to be all nice and polite and offer words gift-wrapped in niceties - its knowing when to absorb, and when to punch. Sometimes when you willfully 'absorb' something said by someone without reacting even though in your heart you want to say something to counter the assertions, it helps them to gain confidence in their wisdom, and this could lead them to awakening. At other times, when a punch is needed and activated, some stubborn and dormant qualities awaken suddenly. Naturally, performing these two functions comes with experience, and TTB, i feel, provides an ideal setting to hone such skills.

 

So yeah, self moderation can be a very enlightening process.

[Encephalon]

We would not require moderators if the participants of TTB's moderated their own behaviour and followed the rules as set out by Sean. Given this, why are we having various discussions about the moderators and their actions? Surely we are just ignoring our own behaviour when we should be focusing on that more than anything else.

 

If the moderators are needed at all, and if the moderators feel compelled to act in order to censure members, then it is for us-the members-here to question our own behaviour and motives first.

 

Life is not 'fair'. Moderators are not perfect. Nor are forum members. Look first to your own behaviour before having a go at the moderators. There will be many people here, myself included, that could have taken a lot more care over what we have posted at times. We should spend our time dealing with our own behaviour first.

 

If you want to make the moderators redundant, then do so by not behaving in a manner that requires the moderators to act.

 

I am proud to have just voted your post to #11!

But as much as I agree with your sentiment, I just don't think it's practical with open forums. The general population is too ________________________ (fill in the blank with virtually any adjective you can think of). I tried to find an alternative forum where the rules of engagement were honored by the participants, and they do exist in some scholarly circles, but they're not very active.

 

I also have to agree with Cowtao; this can be fertile ground for refining our communication skills, but it takes a lot of insight and spiritual maturity. Some days I'm centered and serene, some days I want to rip someone's head off for posting nonsense, but as long as that awareness becomes my "new normal" I can forge ahead.

[orb]

Very often I wish we had a "minus" button next to the "plus" , but I guess that would be too much to ask for a comunist type of mentality where everything has to look positive...

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[ChiDragon]

We would not require moderators if the participants of TTB's moderated their own behaviour and followed the rules as set out by Sean. Given this, why are we having various discussions about the moderators and their actions?

 

If the moderators are needed at all, and if the moderators feel compelled to act in order to censure members, then it is for us-the members-here to question our own behaviour and motives first.

 

Life is not 'fair'. Moderators are not perfect. Nor are forum members. Look first to your own behaviour before having a go at the moderators. There will be many people here, myself included, that could have taken a lot more care over what we have posted at times. We should spend our time dealing with our own behaviour first.

 

If you want to make the moderators redundant, then do so by not behaving in a manner that requires the moderators to act.

 

This is a Taoist forum, most people come here to learn Taoism as indicated in the Lobby by many new members. Learning the principles of the Tao Te Ching, as long we are here, is part of the cultivation as Taoist behavior. Self discipline is, also, a part of the cultivation here. The newcomers without any Taoist behavior knowledge are acceptable and tolerable at the beginning. However, at the later stage, their behavior still have not change any are acceptable but not tolerable. Unfortunately, they're being accepted to stay but not tolerable due to the lack of self discipline and the proper guidance by other members.

 

We are here to learn and to share from each other rather than attacking what one doesn't know or not possessing the same knowledge as others. IMO If something was new to me, it doesn't mean it was incorrect, it was just something I haven't heard of, that's all. However, I would like to find out why did the other person says that with some curiosity instead shutting the door on myself.

 

As far as the concern of was a moderator necessary, I would say it is OK to have it but there is no need to enforce it for its intended purpose. Since this is a Taoist environment, we should have an expectation for someone to behave like a Taoist. I don't know how far this will be carried out to. At least, I think, it should carry us to some extent. Hopefully, it will carry us to the full extent for all of us in the near future.

[Apech]

The OP has got a star! That must be a first. A lot of wisdom on this thread I think ... even the stuff about perfumed turds ... although the image is a little off putting.

[Stigweard]

The OP has got a star! That must be a first. A lot of wisdom on this thread I think ... even the stuff about perfumed turds ... although the image is a little off putting.

Damn!!! I wanna star too !!!!

 

[Apech]

Damn!!! I wanna star too !!!!

 

 

You are a star already!

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Aetherous]

We would not require moderators if the participants of TTB's moderated their own behaviour and followed the rules as set out by Sean.

 

I think everyone is pretty tame here! Good job, Tao Bums! You are all very decent people.

 

I understand the moderators serving in helpful ways, like creating personal practice forums and deleting spam...and if something is extremely wrong, then it would make sense for them to step in and take action. For those purposes, the forum requires moderators.

 

But to give an example...if you call someone a cheerleader, you are probably going to be suspended. That's old history, but it's an example of poor moderating. Moderating when there doesn't need to be any...when people are "behaving" quite well.

 

So, yeah it's cool to realize you should start thinking about your behavior (you weren't previously?)...but it's not going to change anything.

 

Given this, why are we having various discussions about the moderators and their actions?

 

Obviously, because people are finding fault with how the mods are doing things. We should let these people have their say, because it keeps the powers of authority in check...so that they don't become absolutely ridiculous.

 

People are finding fault, for instance, in the case of Vmarco...he has been a hated poster and was controversial, but he didn't necessarily break the rules. And if he did, he was just as much at fault as everyone that was attacking him at the time (by the way, which is also against the rules, and which he complained about to the mods, but got no sympathy for).

 

Obviously, the policy which was handed down to give preference to long time or popular forum members is in full effect. And some (including myself) see the moderators losing perspective...when they don't necessarily have to function from the status of an elevated forum member...but they are choosing to. It's their loss, because that position sucks...

 

Another thing that sucks is that the members of this forum aren't conscious enough to surpass the grade school popularity contest mentality. That we can't have civil discussions with people who (for some reason) we don't like. Get the fuck over it, people. You are not better than anyone else.

 

So, a lot of wisdom in this thread? I don't see any!!!! What was the point of it - to tell us to behave? Fuck that.

[Marblehead]

Behave yourself Scotty. Hehehe.

[Aetherous]

[Mal]

We would not require moderators if the participants of TTB's moderated their own behaviour and followed the rules as set out by Sean. Given this, why are we having various discussions about the moderators and their actions? Surely we are just ignoring our own behaviour when we should be focusing on that more than anything else.

 

If the moderators are needed at all, and if the moderators feel compelled to act in order to censure members, then it is for us-the members-here to question our own behaviour and motives first.

 

Life is not 'fair'. Moderators are not perfect. Nor are forum members. Look first to your own behaviour before having a go at the moderators. There will be many people here, myself included, that could have taken a lot more care over what we have posted at times. We should spend our time dealing with our own behaviour first. If you want to make the moderators redundant, then do so by not behaving in a manner that requires the moderators to act.

 

I didn't know the board was actually able to give a post a star, thanks mjjbecker I feel this summarises quite well the reasons for moderation. Sure we have generic forum rules and stuff but basically it's -

 

"Treat other members with respect, No personal insults."

 

I would love it if I never had to do any moderation action, ever!

[fiveelementtao]

Despite my recent dispute with moderators... This forum has changed so much over the last year or so that I don't know that it can flourish without some serious moderation. My only contention is that moderation, while necessary ,needs to be equitable and consistent. If moderation is going to be strict, it needs to be strict for all. If lenient, then lenient for all. Make a choice and commit to it... But in the current forum we have, I think moderation can be helpful. I have only been here for 3 years, but this place has changed radically since I got here. When I first got here although there were a few bad apples causing a ruckus and no lack of drama (including my own), many were sincere long time practitioners who focused on esoteric energy work. I see now that I got here relatively late just as the old guard was leaving and the new younger crowd was coming in. IME, the maturity level and knowledge level has decreased exponentially over the last year and am finding it increasingly more challenging to avoid bashing all the nonsense I read. I am sure there are members who do not fit into this newer category but I do not hear from them as much. They seem to have retreated into their own practice forums.

 

Some of the old timers whom I respected that were here when I got here have told me that they have packed up and left because of the current environment. IMO, We now have alot of teens and young adults here who have little to no actual experience but no lack of pride in their book knowledge. I think alot of people come here hoping to find a short cut to enlightenment or spiritual power etc... So instead of it being a place where people who work hard to seek out real training and experience and then share that real-life experience with like-minded people, instead we have the internet generation who want to be directed to the latest book that will give them some magic pill to make them the next John Chang and then engage in intellectual semantics about what they have read but not actually achieved... At least I find this to be true with the general discussion forum. I suppose other sub forums are different...

 

But, if we are talking pet peaves, My biggest one is the passive aggressive type already mentioned by a few who wear the veneer of spirituality, love and peace but reak with suppressed anger and insecurity. . The whole idea that spirituality means that one cannot have any negative feelings has fostered a society that is highly unconsciously passive aggressive. I am aware that I myself am aggressive, but I do try to be conscious about it and keep my aggressiveness in context and on topic and hopefully constructive...

 

However, my biggest peave on the discussion forum is when someone wants to challenge me on some issue I have raised or discussed and it's clear that I have pushed some major button, but instead of just simply saying, "I disagree with you, 5ET and here's why..." They want to couch their opposition in the form of a passive aggressive "spiritual" question like, "Gosh 5ET, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge (like I actually want my rear kissed), but what about x, y and z? Spiritual guru so and so says different. What is your view?" And then, like an idiot, I begin spouting my views thinking that this individual actually was interested in my opinion when what was really going on was that the person wanted to lure me into an intellectual argument and lace the conversation with passive aggressive, veiled insults while pretending to actually care about my opinion... I say, If you're going to challenge someone, go ahead and do it and own it. Just be conscious and constructive about it... So, now I find myself asking people, "Are you asking me because you want to know my opinion or because you want to challenge me and lure me into an argument? If so, I'm not interested."

 

Or even worse is the Drive-by-insult, where someone will attack something I have said, try to hide the attack within their post and lace it with judgements in the third person but not have the courage to mention me by name. My favorite one is that apparently I am "patriarchal."

 

Anyway, just venting... It would be nice to find a way to attract the serious seekers here and not the forum junkies. Other than my own, this is the only forum I visit. I hope that this forum stays a place of value for me...

[Enishi]

The endless passive-aggressive intellectual debates (which I admit I too have probably helped flame at times), do indeed detract from the other posts revolving around genuine practices. All one can really do though is try to ignore the inflammatory posts, along with engaging in energetic detoxing so hurt feelings dont linger when one isn't on the site.

[ChiDragon]

My opinion is as such. In the Taoist enviroment the non Taoist are here to see Taoist in action because of their interest. There are Stars and their are Fans, so are Stalkers as also those who dislike the scene but watch them.

And very few became Stars.

 

A Demon who wants to learn the Tao is different than a Saint who learns the Tao.

A Demon behaves different than Saint.

But some are just indulge by Tao not really learning.

 

So do not expect people to behave like Taoist- you should ask about their manners to behave like ladies and gentleman.

 

Very good thought from another point of view. Act like a Taoist was simple means to behave like ladies and gentlemen but not mandatory. However, we are only given them the option to be. They might learn or pick up something from here. What they want to do for themselves is something for them to think about. We don't expect them to be a Taoist or a saint. Since they have exposed themselves to a Taoist environment, we do expect a little change in their behavior. Of course, this was only my wishful thinking and hope that the integrity of the TTB has a little tiny effect on people.....