How to regain Free Will and Change Destiny

[Marblehead]

You are residing in the false realm of self. It is fleeting, and has no substance.

 

Hehehe. I am residing in my house and it surely exists because I have to pay government taxes on it every year.

 

But you are correct, I have not yet Realized my true nature. It is nice to tell each other stories, but the Path, we all must walk alone.

 

Be well

 

Don't push yourself to get there. If you are true to your Self (doesn't matter how many lies you tell other people) you will realize your true nature.

 

And it is true, we each must walk our own path. Sometimes our path merges with others and we walk together for a while and then we must each again go our separate way. Eventually we can reach a point where we merge with others and never have to part ways again. Those people are called "our true friends".

[宁]

I willingly accept that compliment.

 

How did I do it? Tao found me. Yeah, it found me, I didn't find it.

 

I do agree that most aged people give up on life during their latter years. They say "To hell with it, sit down, watch TV and die."

 

When I was getting ready to retire I made sur I had so many hobbies that I would never get any of them finished exactly how I want them. Of course, I keep changing my mind as to how I want them. The only time I get bored is when I want to be bored and then I get bored of being bored and get up and do something.

 

Yes, I too speak to the concept of potential but I normally speak to testing our capacities and capabilities. Same thing, really. Testing to wee what we are capable of. As we age we lose some stuff but if we look hard enough we will find that we gain in other areas.

 

 

+ 1 & Thanks!

 

'Tis my belief that you waited for a thread like this for a loong time, hehe.

 

L1

[tulku]

Ha! I knew it!!! I am only a figment of your dream. You are the center of reality. NO, no, my friend. I am the center of my own reality.

 

My free will. Okay, my latest. I could have left my garder as it was but I decided to make some improvements in order to attract more birds and butterflies.

 

I now have ten times as many birds coming to my garden than I had before. No increase in the butterfly population but I have heard other people say that there just aren't as many butterflies around this summer as is notmal.

 

Anything I have thought through and taken action on is a result of my free will. Not granted, I am limited as to how far I can extend my free will. I can't decide to stop paying my taxes and get away with it.

 

I am what is called a "self starter". I have an idea (and most of them are a product of myself, not someone else) and I work up a plan, then I take action without considering anyone's approval or disapproval. That, my friend, is free will.

 

Form exists. It is what we Taoists call the Manifest. I know that all Buddhists don't exist. Too bad for them. Real life is such a wonderful things. Sad they are missing it all.

 

I exist. You may not as I have never seen you in person. You may be a computer program. But even that computer program exists.

 

Well, I consider myself to be the most fortunate person on this planet. Now watch - an unfortunate occurrance will enter my life for bragging about being so fortunate. Hehehe. But that's okay, I've seen good times, I've seen bad times. I am just glad that I existed in order to have seen all those times.

 

Ah! Time! When we are young we want it to speed up but when we are middle-age we want it to slow down and when we are old we wonder where it all went.

 

Your free will is limited because your consciousness is limited.

 

People with vast consciousness have immense free will to determine whatever fate which they want.

Edited August 18, 2011 by tulku

[tulku]

I don't know. I think we might need fear anyone who claims to be one.

 

But then ...

 

people often attach to the illogical idea of some great spiritual being who will save them, but they fail to realize that they are already saved in their fundamental substance, and simply need to awaken to this fact. All a spiritual being can do is point out this fact and tell you how to clear away false thoughts to arrive at the same, ultimate, universal substrate essence. The effort to become awakened is all up to you, but if you do not make this effort, then there is no possibility of becoming liberated.

[tulku]

[tulku]

A person cannot simply rely on going to Church, saying prayers, reciting holy texts, chanting mantras, reciting the rosary, or prostrating before the Buddha in order to change their life and life situation. They must learn to cultivate the self. They must learn how to become calm and clear of mind so as to be able to practice introspection, and become watchful over their own conduct so as to search out and identify bad habits, mistakes, faults and weaknesses. Through identifying our own faults and weaknesses, we will then know what we must correct in our lives, and how we should proceed. Otherwise, these are the things likely to cause us to continue to live out an unfortunate fate that we wish to change.

 

Finally Realized I made too many of the same mistakes here.

 

Finally Realized.

[tulku]

[stan herman]

Hi Marblehead, when you say you don't agree with 'no free will', I assume (from other things you've written), that your belief in it is desire-based belief, rather than a reasoned one. Am I reading right?

[Marblehead]

+ 1 & Thanks!

 

'Tis my belief that you waited for a thread like this for a loong time, hehe.

 

L1

 

Hehehe. Well, you do know that I like to talk about my free will. I can't help it if others feel they are destined to pain and suffering. However. we don't deserve it so we shouldn't accept it.

[stan herman]

Hehehe. Well, you do know that I like to talk about my free will. I can't help it if others feel they are destined to pain and suffering. However. we don't deserve it so we shouldn't accept it.

 

Ahhh, I see now. Well, bet you a dollar you can't free-will yourself into accepting pain and suffering

[Marblehead]

Your free will is limited because your consciousness is limited.

 

People with vast consciousness have immense free will to determine whatever fate which they want.

 

How do you know my consciousness is limited? Can you see within my mind? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!

 

You last sentence is contradictory. Free will is the opposite of fate. We all are endowed with both. We all have free will within our environment. Want more free will? Change environments. Or even change your existing environment.

 

We need no let fate play the dominate role in our life. Afterall fate is nothing more than our environment and other people controlling us.

[Marblehead]

people often attach to the illogical idea of some great spiritual being who will save them, but they fail to realize that they are already saved in their fundamental substance, and simply need to awaken to this fact. All a spiritual being can do is point out this fact and tell you how to clear away false thoughts to arrive at the same, ultimate, universal substrate essence. The effort to become awakened is all up to you, but if you do not make this effort, then there is no possibility of becoming liberated.

 

Okay. I agree with the first and last sentence. I do not believe in spiritual beings so the second sentence was invalidated.

[Marblehead]

Finally Realized I made too many of the same mistakes here.

 

Finally Realized.

 

First step toward enlightenment (whatever that is).

[Marblehead]

Hi Marblehead, when you say you don't agree with 'no free will', I assume (from other things you've written), that your belief in it is desire-based belief, rather than a reasoned one. Am I reading right?

 

Hi Stan,

 

Now that is a question that will be difficult for me to answer so if I am not sufficiently clear in this first response please feel free to question me further.

 

First, I do not believe in "destiny".

 

Second, I do not believe that there is some god dictating the processes of my life.

 

Third, I do not believe that anything is fixed, that is, that anything is static. I do believe that everything within the realm of Tao is dynamic - constantly changing.

 

Fourth, I believe in the concept of "cause and effect".

 

Okay. To answer your question: Yes.

 

Hehehe. Sorry.

 

In order to enact our free will we must have intention. So, yes, if we say that intention is actually desire then indeed our free will is desire-based.

 

But remember, we are told to lessen (not eliminate) our desires. So the fewer desires we have the less often we need to express our free will. This will allow us to live a more spontanious life.

 

Now, that doesn't necessarily negate reasoning and logical thought. If we have no reason there likely will be no desire and therefore intention and therefore no need to act on our free will.

 

But, if we do decide to act with our free will we should apply logic to our course of action.

 

That's it for now.

[Marblehead]

Ahhh, I see now. Well, bet you a dollar you can't free-will yourself into accepting pain and suffering

 

You can bet your ass on that one! Hehehe.

[Wynn]

Not to beat a dead horse, cuz you've obviously made up your mind on this, but ...

 

THERE IS NO FREE WILL!!!

 

You're looking at things from the perspective of your self (small s). The self is the grand illusion, ruled by the master deceiver - ego.

 

Breaking free from those chains of deception is what enlightenment is.

 

I know, I know, I (wynn) am not enlightened, so what the hell do I know (valid point). But I'd bet you a million dollars I'm right. No way to prove it though (for either of us).

 

OK, first one to enlightenment wins. lol

[Marblehead]

 

THERE IS NO FREE WILL!!!

 

Not to kick a cow pie but

 

THAT IS BULLSHIT!!!!!

 

 

You're looking at things from the perspective of your self (small s). The self is the grand illusion, ruled by the master deceiver - ego.

 

Breaking free from those chains of deception is what enlightenment is.

 

I know, I know, I (wynn) am not enlightened, so what the hell do I know (valid point). But I'd bet you a million dollars I'm right. No way to prove it though (for either of us).

 

OK, first one to enlightenment wins. lol

 

I can look at it only from my perspective. I have only one brain and it is in my head, not in yours.

 

Ego has absolutely nothing to do with this.

 

Breaking free from those chains (which I do not wear - I have been liberated - Sorry my Buddhist friends, I really have never been liberated because I have never been imprisoned) will really screw up your wrists!

 

Do you have a million dollars to bet with? I don't.

 

What may be right for you may not be right for me. I am only arguing against any concept that is contrary to Taoist philosophy as I understand it.

 

You sound like a wanna-be Buddhist but that really doesn't matter.

 

As far as enlightenment goes, I have no idea what that is. I can talk with you a little bit about self-awareness and self-actualization though.

 

Don't be thinking you are an illusion. You are a real person - a product of the Manifestation of Tao. Realize yourself and be all you can be. (Yeah, that's an old Army slogan.)

[Wynn]

Yeah, I don't have a million bucks either, its just a silly saying.

 

I'm not a wanna-be anything (except longing for Truth). The Tao Te Ching is magnificent prose, as is the Ashtavakra Gita, I Am That, and many other written signposts from the masters.

 

I won't bother you again. Best of luck figuring it out.

[goldisheavy]

What exactly can your free will change?

 

Beliefs.

 

Can anything you do improve upon the Real?

 

No, but you can improve upon the Unreal, which is the mother of the Real.

 

Form doesn't exist. You don't exist. I know you think you do; good luck realizing you don't.

 

What a waste of time. If Marble doesn't exist, why do you challenge him to realize something? Do words mean anything at all to you?

[Marblehead]

Hey Wynn,

 

Never try to teach Buddhism to a Taoist who has already tried Buddhism and discarded it because he felt it to be lacking.

[stan herman]

Hey Wynn,

 

Never try to teach Buddhism to a Taoist who has already tried Buddhism and discarded it because he felt it to be lacking.

 

Here's the way it looks to me: For many, perhaps most, their ideas of what is proper (and/or what they desire to believe) rule their observations--what they will (and won't) look at, as well as how they interpret what they see. That which it seems might contradict or threaten those notions of propriety is forbidden from consideration.

 

The power of logic is a myth. It is 'feelings' (emotions + sensations + instincts) that govern thought, perhaps for almost all of us. Logic (and language) are merely an engine to rationalize our impulses.

[Marblehead]

Here's the way it looks to me: For many, perhaps most, their ideas of what is proper (and/or what they desire to believe) rule their observations--what they will (and won't) look at, as well as how they interpret what they see. That which it seems might contradict or threaten those notions of propriety is forbidden from consideration.

 

The power of logic is a myth. It is 'feelings' (emotions + sensations + instincts) that govern thought, perhaps for almost all of us. Logic (and language) are merely an engine to rationalize our impulses.

 

The first paragraph went down well.

 

I burped reading the second paragraph. There is much more to logic than that.

 

Logic is rational thinking rather than thinking based on emotions, sensations and instincts.

 

Logical thinking supports my belief in free will.

[Cat Pillar]

The first paragraph went down well.

 

I burped reading the second paragraph. There is much more to logic than that.

 

Logic is rational thinking rather than thinking based on emotions, sensations and instincts.

 

Logical thinking supports my belief in free will.

 

Hahaha, I like your style, Marblehead.

 

I lack wisdom and experience, so perhaps that is why I do not understand the "free will" debate. It almost seems like arguing about whether or not you have the ability to argue about something.

[Astral_Anima]

How does one "fight to surrender"?

How does one "Try" to "Let go"?

[Marblehead]

How does one "Try" to "Let go"?

 

My point exactly. Striving reverses the desired effect.