Let The Victim Keep His Distance From The Rotting Corpse

[fiveelementtao]

I believe the following dream is a result of practice of the HUUL breath mantra outlined in these links...

 

"Let The Victim Keep His Distance From The Rotting Corpse..."

 

This was something said to me in a dream by a female shaman. She was in a trashyard. She was sitting on a grass prayer matt surrounded by filth, feces, rusting cars, etc... She was caucasian, of a somewhat large build, not fat per se, but well fed and strong looking. She had the feel of a mother or other female caregiver. Someone with whom one would feel comfortable lying in her lap. She felt calm and serene and safe. She had slightly greying auburn hair but had an air of youthfulness and strength. Her eyes were warm and smiling.

 

I recognized that she was a shaman and a master, but she projected no air of superiority. As I said, Mother or Auntie is the most accurate description of her. She was family and very approachable.

 

I began to walk towards her. My intent was to sit in front of her as a student. As I took my first steps toward her, she calmly said to me, "Let the victim keep his distance from the rotting corpse." I knew she was referring to herself as the corpse.

 

As in any dreamtime, I instantly had an understanding of what she meant, but as is often true with dreams, once I awoke, I had to analyze it and explain it again to my rational waking mind before it slipped in the abyss of forgetfulness that most dreams fall into.

 

Here is what I believe she meant by that statement:

The manifested physical world is an illusion that She (the mother) has created as a matrix for the Soul to experience limitation and grow. She has purposefully created this illusion to ensnare and entrap the senses. But, since it is Illusion, it also creates death and decay. If we are ensnared by the illusion we will also die. In order to become ensnared by the senses one must adopt the mindset of victim. i.e, a victim of circumstance. That is the first effect of becoming ensnared. So, what she is saying is: If you want to become enmeshed in the Illusion of the physically manifested Universe, you can, but keep your distance and don't get too attached otherwise if you look too closely at the underlying nature of Creation, you will see a rotting corpse and it may frighten you.

If however, you are willing to let go of the physical, manifested Universe, then when you see creation for what it is, (a rotting corpse), then you will not be frightened but liberated.

 

I got the impression that there was no "preferred" method. Choosing to become ensnared or choosing to become liberated were simply two different paths to the same ultimate objective. The only caution was to be aware of which choice you made if what you want is to be happy. Each path had it's own benefits and pitfalls.

 

Back to the dream: I was impelled to keep walking toward her. I sat in front of her on the mat. Things get a little fuzzy after this but what I do remember is that She began to tear a hole in her prayer mat and then she began digging in the earth beneath her and then she dove into the earth and disappeared. The next thing I remember was that I was following her as she was "escaping" the trash heap. I felt the desire to help her escape. My last memories of that dream is following her as we were about to reach the top of the heap and make it to freedom.

 

What I take this part to mean is that the HUUL breath mantra She gave me earlier is a mantra that allows one to escape the bondage of the Earth by going through the earth. The old saying, "The fastest way out is through." is what comes to mind for me. The HUUL mantra activates the lower chakras and connects one powerfully with Mother Earth. Since she is the Master of manifested creation (Earth), She is also supremely qualified to help one escape it's clutches.

 

By practicing the HUUL breath and meditating on being in this manifested universe without being entrapped by it is one way to find happiness in life. By adopting the mentality of one who is not a victim but an active creator of one's life, we can experience the physical world and enjoy it to the fullest without being ensnared and victimized by it.

 

I have not mastered this, I only relay it as it was given to me.

 

HUUL

[Mal]

thanks for sharing this experience _/\_

[Clarity]

thanks for sharing this experience _/\_

 

Your experience reminds me of how humans eliminate that which they neither need, want, or desire. The hole into the Earth is much like our own energetic and physical exit portals.

 

Very interesting experience, thank you for posting this.

 

-Adam

[InfinityTruth]

Sounds like a very cool dream. I love symbolic dreams.

[VCraigP]

Have you ever attempted to achieve lucidity in your dreams?

 

Recently I am working with a Tibetan Lama and this topic is very important in his tradition.

 

I wonder how this interaction could have unfolded if you were fully awake in your dream. It is something I hope to be able to explore some day. Thanks again for sharing this dream vision.

 

Craig

[fiveelementtao]

Have you ever attempted to achieve lucidity in your dreams?

 

Recently I am working with a Tibetan Lama and this topic is very important in his tradition.

 

I wonder how this interaction could have unfolded if you were fully awake in your dream. It is something I hope to be able to explore some day. Thanks again for sharing this dream vision.

 

Craig

Thanks, Mal, Clarity, and Infinity for the positive feedback.

Hi Craig,

Yes, I have experimented with lucid dreaming over the years and have had sporadic success with it. Where it has evolved to now is that towards the end of my 8 hours of sleep, I go through a couple hours of waking up and going back to sleep before waking up for the day and in that period, I will often times re-enter dreams and interact more consciously with them. I have found that in this period, if I wake up after a vivid dream that I can re-enter it and ask questions of those in the dream and get some surprising answers. This has been very helpful when I want to know the meaning behind dream symbols or for divination.

 

About a year ago, I had a dream during this period of my sleep cycle where I met Odin and I asked him about something that I had been wondering about concerning the similarity between his hanging on the World Tree in order to receive the mysteries (Runes) of the Universe and Jesus' hanging on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. Odin's response shocked the hell out of me, he said...

 

"Jesus was a coward. He sacrificed himself for someone else out of fear to appease his father and to satisfy the fears of a bunch of snot-noses who don't appreciate him.. and he whined about it the whole time. What a waste! I am a warrior and I eagerly sacrificed myself to MYSELF and deemed it a privilege. I was not fettered with any obligation other than to discover the Runes for myself and then I freely shared what I learned with all with no attachment of obligation. It would not have mattered to me if anyone listened to me. I died to liberate myself. No man can liberate another. Look at Jesus. After he sacrifices himself, he then wastes that sacrifice by making people feel sorry for him and then forces them to believe in him, not in themselves, but in him and then he relieves them of their responsibility to die to themselves creating a race of frightened, spoiled children. Had he made a real sacrifice of himself and owned it like a warrior and then taught his followers to do the same, can you imagine where the world would be today? What a waste!"

 

He was actually much harsher on Jesus than that and these are some of my words to describe the gist of his message. But he did call Jesus a coward and I still cringe at that assessment of him... I experienced his value system as very harsh and I am still struggling to see it without fear and judgement. And yet he was also fiercely generous. It is a combination that I have not experienced in anyone before or since. I was in awe of his power and yet while I felt very little and inadequate he was well.. Fiercely welcoming and accepting of me completely and with no pity... Very hard to explain. He was pure in a way I have not seen anywhere else... I doubt that his differing value system would be considered 'spiritual" today. There was definitely a strong value placed on fearlessness and warrior ethic. He was very forceful with that message to me that for him, spirituality was the path of warriors and it was expected that one should be eager to die to themselves. What I discovered about myself here was that while I had been intellectually familiar with the idea of the spiritual warrior, it was muted in comparison with Odin's warrior ethic. He had ZERO guilt or hesitation about his "warrior-ness" whereas I really struggle with mine. I could see that 2,000 years ago in Europe, things may have been alot clearer and different in terms of what spirituality meant...

You would think that since it may very well have come out of my unconscious that I would be relieved by that. I wasn't. I personally see Jesus' sacrifice as extremely brave and selfless and I woudln't dare to say or think such a thing about him. But I guess Odin can get away with it I like to see Odin and Jesus as emanations of the same cosmic consciousness, so to see the Universe as having ideological schisms within it's own consciousness is rather disturbing to me. But I suppose as a self-labeled shaman, I guess it makes sense if I also view the Universe (like the human being) as an aggregate of different energies that sometimes are in seeming conflict wherein one needs to seek a dynamic balance rather than a static 'peace'. I guess it also makes sense if the each of those sacrifices were for different purposes: One for the balancing of negative karma and the other for the destruction of ego to obtain knowledge. Anyway, my point being, that to answer your question, yes, I have found that lucid dreaming can be a very powerful way to intentionally interact with the subconscious to kickstart some serious personal growth. If my experiences are any indication, then my suggestion to those wanting to experience lucid dreaming, be prepared for some intense and sometimes unnerving revelations.

Anyway, just rambling again.. Good to see you Craig,..

Mike

Edited August 19, 2011 by fiveelementtao

[Apech]

Thanks for sharing the dream. Very interesting.

[gendao]

"Let The Victim Keep His Distance From The Rotting Corpse..."

Interesting message, I have a different interpretation though, in case you're interested..?

 

Essentially, it means that you are a victim of your own belief that "older (necessarily) = wiser." Now although this may often be true, it is not always fully synonymous. Yet in your quest to find the truth, you have pursued increasingly more and more ancient esoteric knowledge and effectively equated the 2. To the point now where you must seek dead "masters" of "dead" traditions that no longer even exist (if they ever even truly did). Because that is the only way to keep "progressing" and "trumping" each preceding tradition that you have "outgrown."

 

This ancient woman sitting in a trash heap thus represents a long-deceased, ancestral mother figure/master of a "rotting corpse" of a tradition. But as you seek to become her student, she actually flees you and issues your warning. Now, this is for YOUR own good, not hers. In fact, she actually burrows out of her rotting tradition to escape you (or rather, to help you escape HER) - and in doing so leads you away from both it and her.

 

The bondage here is a dogmatic one to your belief and making the common mistake of confusing a means with its end. So, she is attempting to break this mental "link" that you have subconsciously developed between the 2.

 

In finding your true "self" (or lack thereof), ultimately you have to enter the non-dimensional xiantian state - not the distant past. Which is now only distancing yourself further from your "goal" when taken to that extreme.

 

IOW, going back further and further in time does not bring you any closer to "YOU." Because the real "you" exists only in a non-dimensional state - which means it doesn't physically "exist" at all...

 

And on a more personal note, perhaps you have some issues with being emotionally-distanced from your mother, or something?

Edited September 3, 2011 by vortex

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[fiveelementtao]

Interesting message, I have a different interpretation though, in case you're interested..?

 

Essentially, it means that you are a victim of your own belief that "older (necessarily) = wiser." Now although this may often be true, it is not always fully synonymous. Yet in your quest to find the truth, you have pursued increasingly more and more ancient esoteric knowledge and effectively equated the 2. To the point now where you must seek dead "masters" of "dead" traditions that no longer even exist (if they ever even truly did). Because that is the only way to keep "progressing" and "trumping" each preceding tradition that you have "outgrown."

 

This ancient woman sitting in a trash heap thus represents a long-deceased, ancestral mother figure/master of a "rotting corpse" of a tradition. But as you seek to become her student, she actually flees you and issues your warning. Now, this is for YOUR own good, not hers. In fact, she actually burrows out of her rotting tradition to escape you (or rather, to help you escape HER) - and in doing so leads you away from both it and her.

 

The bondage here is a dogmatic one to your belief and making the common mistake of confusing a means with its end. So, she is attempting to break this mental "link" that you have subconsciously developed between the 2.

 

In finding your true "self" (or lack thereof), ultimately you have to enter the non-dimensional xiantian state - not the distant past. Which is now only distancing yourself further from your "goal" when taken to that extreme.

 

IOW, going back further and further in time does not bring you any closer to "YOU." Because the real "you" exists only in a non-dimensional state - which means it doesn't physically "exist" at all...

 

And on a more personal note, perhaps you have some issues with being emotionally-distanced from your mother, or something?

 

Am I interested? Hmm, Well, Let me think about it.. Apparently, you have taken personal offense at my viewpoints at some point and are now taking this opportunity to criticize them by manipulating a very personal spiritual experience (I am freely sharing with everyone) to attack my spirituality as "a rotting corpse." Insinuating that I am perhaps deluded by seeking "dead" traditions that according to you "May or may not have existed" I have become "dogmatic" any other personal insults I missed? Yeah, but who cares... So, let me see, Am I interested...No, I am not interested...

 

Y'know if you've got something to say.. Say it in a reasoned manner in context. Don't make it personal with passive aggressive insults... I find your tactic here very cowardly, cruel and childish...

 

 

(another one goes on to the ignore list) buh-bye...

[fiveelementtao]

A dream hold different meaning for different people.

For me the message is :

Even you follow her you will become like her and become rotten.

As she said victim she can say that you have became victim to the idea to

follow and become yourself rotten. Mabye only maybe it is that as the second dream about Odin give the key to understand this dream else you would not mention it.

 

 

Is to follow your own way instead of following someone you think you can learn of.

Things that rotten and die will escape the "trash" and such is the things of life that even shamans will go someday. Those who came before you are gone, so how can you stay when you follow someone who is gone.

 

It is a question why it is to escape world?

When your purpose is to escape why have come into the mess to be in the world?

Since back to the dream the female was against to follow her, she instead if she want you to escape may ask you to come but would you come when she say to come or is

more trusting when she not to come and make you interested to come?

 

The message also could be as she is human she will go as the way human will go, they will die and so you have to find on your own a different way so you not end up like her since you said she is considered as an elder has expirienced so far.

 

It is same as parents when they tell a lot to do and not to do and you not believe until you are adult yourself and you find well they were correct and the same scene is also with Dumbledore and Harry Potter about to be old and forget how it was to be young and to be young not to know to be old yet.

 

So a try to prevent to repeat mistake of those who have come before you.

 

It is two of my interpretation but it is only from my view

and a interpretation is only worth when you look what the issue and topic in life is now in your own life since it is your own dream and you know more about yourself as

it appears to me.

 

Q

 

Friend... While your post is less nasty than vortex' I think it is coming from a similar place... Seriously, people I didn't share these dreams here so people could use them as an excuse to project whatever personal criticisms they have of me...

I you have issue with my posts, speak your mind in context... This is just gross. I am disgusted... Please allow me some privacy while I put my clothes back on...

Friend you are going on ignore also... bye!

[Creation]

fiveelementtao,

 

Thank you for sharing the story about Odin's view of Jesus. Wow. I would be interested to hear any more you have to say about that.

 

When I first encountered your Teutonic Shamanism stuff, I remember thinking something like "It would be great if that lineage and the Christian lineage could coexist", and I got a strong "sense" from the Teutonic lineage saying "We don't get along with the Christian lineage!"

 

I actually started crying because it was so upsetting that spiritual lineages were in conflict like this.

 

I figured it was because of the historical persecutions, but maybe it is something even deeper, transcending the actions of any ordinary mortals? What a thought. But the universe is a very big place.

 

I wonder if Odin has actually met Jesus? It's one thing to criticize a person based on what you have heard of them, and/or on those associated with them, but without having met the person. It's much different to say such things if you have actually met the person. I suspect that this has an analouge for immortal/archetypal beings as well. The universe is a very big place...

Edited September 4, 2011 by Creation

[fiveelementtao]

Hi Creation,

 

It would be great if that lineage and the Christian lineage could coexist"

It can. It does for me. Anyone who has read my book knows that I am a follower of the Gnostic Christ. I even go on to say in my book and my podcast that I believe that if European spirituality had not been hijacked by the altered Imperial version of Christianity (not the actual message of Jesus) and European tribes had been allowed to create their own spirituality organically (instead of having it forced upon them under pain of death) that IMO, I believe that European paganism would have absorbed Jesus into their pantheons in the same way that buddha was absorbed into the Hindu pantheon. I am certain that if allowed to evolve organically modern european religion would be polytheist religion similar to hinduism with Jesus as another supreme deity figure along with Odin, Thor etc..., just as Krishna and Rama today are seen as different aspects of the incarnation of Vishnu. It was the literal dualist dogma interpretation of the Imperial State sponsored church that mandated the destruction of holographic sects of christianity. In fact, I am currently working on the linguistic similarities between the pre-hindu vedic religion and the pre-Christian Teutonic religion. And, the deeper I dig, the more astoundingly clear it is to me that the Vedic deities are the same as the Teutonic ones. The only slight difference is due to the change of pronunciation over time. The hindu religion has no problem with Jesus. The hindu religion is an organic evolution of the Vedic. So, if hindu religion can incorporate or at least accept the validity of Jesus, so can the Teutonic.

 

and I got a strong "sense" from the Teutonic lineage saying "We don't get along with the Christian lineage!"

That is a very common reaction by many people. I often get inquiries from people asking if they can be a christian and practice teutonic shamanism. The answer is absolutely. I had the same feeling as you at first, but after more meditative journeys about this, I have been given the opposite feeling that the Teutonic path and the path of the original Jesus is totally compatible... My experience of the Astral teachers is that there is not the separation that we experience. IME, They do not see religions or lineages like we do. IN fact, I have more than once gotten a reaction of confusion if I ask a question that supposes a division. I have also gotten the feeling that they have had to show alot patience tolerating my limited dualistic human thinking. They allow me to use the "word" Teutonic because they know I and some other humans need to make a distinction in order to have a frame a reference. But the deities do not make such a distinction. IME, All spiritual knowledge from wherever it comes is free to everyone... So, If my experience means anything, there is room for us all. Teutonic shamanism isn't about religion. It is simply a way to interface with the manifested multiverse from within an ancient European world view...

 

I actually started crying because it was so upsetting that spiritual lineages were in conflict like this.

You needn't be sad if you don't have any conflict. There is none coming from the deities IME. If humans express conflict, you can make a difference and combine different lineages if it works for you. Let others do whatever they choose. You can be different and set an example.

 

So, I understand your dismay at the separation of religions. This dream I shared is just that - a dream - If it was in fact a shamanic dream, then it may help to meditate on it symbolically rather than literally. The meaning I take from it is to underscore how so many people over the last 2,000 years have clearly misunderstood and distorted the message of Jesus and what a tragic waste it is that his sacrifice was not understood and in fact has been used as a justification for so much bloodshed and bigotry...

 

Deities are often judged by the actions of their followers. I do not personally interpret Odin's message to be directed at Jesus himself but at those followers who have abused his message. Just as many wrongly interpret the Muslim faith as one of violence. For those from outside of Christian countries, Jesus is seen as a bigot and murderer because so many self-proclaimed christians have acted this way. So, I believe Odin was directing his comments at the "false" christians, not at Jesus himself...

 

Another way to look at it is from a polytheist viewpoint which sees the universe as a multiverse where instead of a static peace, there is a dynamic balance. In any dynamic balance, there is conflict. In astrology, the powers of the planets are sometimes in dynamic opposition to one another and we humans see them as being "enemies" but they are just different energies that combine to create the whole. So, from that perspective, it is OK with me if deities have differing viewpoints. They all work together in a holistic fashion...

 

So, there are many ways to interpret shamanic dreams and visions. IME, they are best handled if meditated upon over time. Many times, the experiences can be unsettling, but those emotions get our attention. I was shocked at the term "Rotting Corpse" but that shocking imagery and stuck with me until I was able to get a deeper understanding of the cyclical nature of the Universe...

 

I can't speak for Odin or Jesus, but based on the intended emotional impact and how it forced me to reconcile the divergence within me, I feel confident that Jesus himself would have approved of Odin's message... ( and maybe he himslef Told Odin to share it with me in those words....) I know if I were Jesus, I would be pretty sad if I saw people distorting my message the way so many have with his...

 

Thanks for the feedback...

[Creation]

Hi fiveelementtao.

 

The impression I got was not that an individual cannot practice both, or that they are mutually exclusive, but that there is a lot of enmity floating around.

 

I don't perceive it very clearly, but I perceive there to be lineage "spaces" where spirits of the same lineage congregate, where things like collective karma are operating. And that within the lineage space of the Old Germanic path, I felt enmity toward Christianity. My perception is not nearly refined enough to pinpoint the source of it. If you perceive that the deities do not hold this enmity, then perhaps it is just the collective karmic imprints of murdered shamans.

 

My sadness was a reaction to this collective enmity. My reaction to the sadness was a desire for the enmity to be healed. At any rate, as long as this enmity is there, it will have affect people on Earth.

 

But about Odin.

 

I've been thinking about what he said to you. It really seems that the message of Jesus to "Take up your cross" and "He who wishes to find his life must lose it" is not at all incompatible with Odin's view. And that many of Odin's criticisms of Jesus were applicable to Christians rather than Jesus himself ("...making people feel sorry for him and then forces them to believe in him").

 

Lurking underneath any discussion here is the complication that Jesus and Odin are doing triple duty as immortals, archetypes, and lineage deities.

[Creation]

Also,

 

What a refreshing take on unselfishness Odin has! He didn't sacrifice himself for anyone but himself, and yet what he gained he did not consider to be his, but shared it freely. I will be meditating on this.

Edited September 4, 2011 by Creation

[Simple_Jack]

I believe the following dream is a result of practice of the HUUL breath mantra outlined in these links...

 

"Let The Victim Keep His Distance From The Rotting Corpse..."

 

This was something said to me in a dream by a female shaman. She was in a trashyard. She was sitting on a grass prayer matt surrounded by filth, feces, rusting cars, etc... She was caucasian, of a somewhat large build, not fat per se, but well fed and strong looking. She had the feel of a mother or other female caregiver. Someone with whom one would feel comfortable lying in her lap. She felt calm and serene and safe. She had slightly greying auburn hair but had an air of youthfulness and strength. Her eyes were warm and smiling.

 

I recognized that she was a shaman and a master, but she projected no air of superiority. As I said, Mother or Auntie is the most accurate description of her. She was family and very approachable.

 

I began to walk towards her. My intent was to sit in front of her as a student. As I took my first steps toward her, she calmly said to me, "Let the victim keep his distance from the rotting corpse." I knew she was referring to herself as the corpse.

 

As in any dreamtime, I instantly had an understanding of what she meant, but as is often true with dreams, once I awoke, I had to analyze it and explain it again to my rational waking mind before it slipped in the abyss of forgetfulness that most dreams fall into.

 

Here is what I believe she meant by that statement:

The manifested physical world is an illusion that She (the mother) has created as a matrix for the Soul to experience limitation and grow. She has purposefully created this illusion to ensnare and entrap the senses. But, since it is Illusion, it also creates death and decay. If we are ensnared by the illusion we will also die. In order to become ensnared by the senses one must adopt the mindset of victim. i.e, a victim of circumstance. That is the first effect of becoming ensnared. So, what she is saying is: If you want to become enmeshed in the Illusion of the physically manifested Universe, you can, but keep your distance and don't get too attached otherwise if you look too closely at the underlying nature of Creation, you will see a rotting corpse and it may frighten you.

If however, you are willing to let go of the physical, manifested Universe, then when you see creation for what it is, (a rotting corpse), then you will not be frightened but liberated.

 

I got the impression that there was no "preferred" method. Choosing to become ensnared or choosing to become liberated were simply two different paths to the same ultimate objective. The only caution was to be aware of which choice you made if what you want is to be happy. Each path had it's own benefits and pitfalls.

 

Back to the dream: I was impelled to keep walking toward her. I sat in front of her on the mat. Things get a little fuzzy after this but what I do remember is that She began to tear a hole in her prayer mat and then she began digging in the earth beneath her and then she dove into the earth and disappeared. The next thing I remember was that I was following her as she was "escaping" the trash heap. I felt the desire to help her escape. My last memories of that dream is following her as we were about to reach the top of the heap and make it to freedom.

 

What I take this part to mean is that the HUUL breath mantra She gave me earlier is a mantra that allows one to escape the bondage of the Earth by going through the earth. The old saying, "The fastest way out is through." is what comes to mind for me. The HUUL mantra activates the lower chakras and connects one powerfully with Mother Earth. Since she is the Master of manifested creation (Earth), She is also supremely qualified to help one escape it's clutches.

 

By practicing the HUUL breath and meditating on being in this manifested universe without being entrapped by it is one way to find happiness in life. By adopting the mentality of one who is not a victim but an active creator of one's life, we can experience the physical world and enjoy it to the fullest without being ensnared and victimized by it.

 

I have not mastered this, I only relay it as it was given to me.

 

HUUL

This is beautiful, Fiveelementtao.

 

What you have described reminds me of these quotes from Shakyamuni buddha:

 

"All conditioned phenomena are impermanent; subject to decay and disintegration. Work out your own salvations with diligence. This is the last teaching of the Tathagata [buddha.]" Which was said to be given on the day of his "death."

 

And this one from the Diamond sutra:

 

"All phenomena are like

A dream, an illusion, a bubble and a shadow

Like a dew drop and a flash of lightning

Thus you should view them."

 

You should investigate the nature of this dream further.

[gendao]

Am I interested? Hmm, Well, Let me think about it.. Apparently, you have taken personal offense at my viewpoints at some point and are now taking this opportunity to criticize them by manipulating a very personal spiritual experience (I am freely sharing with everyone) to attack my spirituality as "a rotting corpse." Insinuating that I am perhaps deluded by seeking "dead" traditions that according to you "May or may not have existed" I have become "dogmatic" any other personal insults I missed? Yeah, but who cares... So, let me see, Am I interested...No, I am not interested...

 

Y'know if you've got something to say.. Say it in a reasoned manner in context. Don't make it personal with passive aggressive insults... I find your tactic here very cowardly, cruel and childish...

Actually, I typically agree with most all of your viewpoints borne of experience and plus them, lol.

 

So, I personally have nothing against you or your current practice. In fact, HU has been used as a seed syllable in numerous other traditions (lending credence).

traditionally it is used in the Quran, and the Sufi mystics of Persia and the East have been fond of this name HU. They pronounce it: "HOO". One may see the name HU in some of the translations of Rumi poems popular these days.

 

The HOO (HU) is the Sufi equivalent to the Hindu OOOM chant

So, I am not saying that a practice employing this mantra couldn't be an effective means. Just that ultimately, means =/= end. And perhaps your dream was emphasizing this initially small, yet potentially eventually huge distinction.

 

My interpretation was actually thus impersonal, not personal. Not unlike your "Odin interpretation" of Jesus. You personally cringed at his assessment, yet that's simply the "message" that you received. So, who are you to judge? Likewise, I don't care who had this dream, that was simply my interpretation of it. Which I don't claim to be right or wrong either, btw.. Just my .02 opinion!

 

And if I had a beef with your points, believe me, I would have rebutted them a lonngg time ago, lol! I didn't and still don't have a beef with your points, though! Well, thanks for sharing?!

[fiveelementtao]

This is beautiful, Fiveelementtao.

 

What you have described reminds me of these quotes from Shakyamuni buddha:

 

"All conditioned phenomena are impermanent; subject to decay and disintegration. Work out your own salvations with diligence. This is the last teaching of the Tathagata [buddha.]" Which was said to be given on the day of his "death."

 

And this one from the Diamond sutra:

 

"All phenomena are like

A dream, an illusion, a bubble and a shadow

Like a dew drop and a flash of lightning

Thus you should view them."

 

You should investigate the nature of this dream further.

 

Thanks Simple Jack,

Beautiful quotes...

If my past experience with these kinds of dreams is any indication, I probably will be uncovering deeper levels of meaning of the symbolism for the rest of my life...

Thanks for the feedback,

Mike

[fiveelementtao]

Lurking underneath any discussion here is the complication that Jesus and Odin are doing triple duty as immortals, archetypes, and lineage deities.

indeed... No small task...

 

And that within the lineage space of the Old Germanic path, I felt enmity toward Christianity.

I see what you mean... No doubt there is some karmic anger floating around. History has conveniently erased the last 1,000 years of Imperially driven holocaust that occurred in Northern Europe. Throughout my childhood, I had the impression that Europe gradually, peacefully and voluntarily converted to Imperial Christianity.

 

Charlemagne after unsuccessfully trying to militarily subjugate the continental Saxons and convert them to his version of Christianity, Slaughtered (beheaded) 4,500 unarmed prisoners (Men and children) at the same time in an act of terror. It is said there were rivers of blood. (and that's only what his historians recorded, imagine what didn't get recorded or was altered to fit within Charlemagne's official version)

 

Nowadays, people only know of the Vikings as merciless marauders of helpless, innocent English church monasteries. But, what Christian History has not recorded was that for centuries Imperial Roman and later Christian armies were launched from the British Isles and funded by those same monasteries to slaughter and convert pagan tribes under pain of death and torture.

 

Scandinavia was the last refuge for Teutonic Pagans and knowing that they would be next, I believe that they launched a pro-active campaign against Imperial Christian tyranny in a desperate attempt to save their indigenous religion and way of life...

 

Thank goodness that Iceland was so far away from mainland Europe or perhaps our ancestral Myths might have been lost forever..

 

Clearly I have some strong feelings about this, so it makes perfect sense to me that there is some ancestral anger still lurking in the astral plane... One of the reasons I started this path was to try and help heal that ancestral pain and restore a viable European practice. One of my main practices is to perform rituals for my genetic ancestors with a focus on healing both the abused and the abusers....

 

Thanks for your great feedback,

Mike