OMG! A Huge Raw Foods Bodybuilder!

[tulku]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx_aAjxEHLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx_aAjxEHLw&feature=player_embedded#!

All along, I thought you can only build up your body and strength, do martial arts and even compete in sports via an animal based diet.

This video completely shakes up my mind. Edited August 19, 2011 by tulku

[NeiChuan]

I don't see what's so hard to believe.

 

Some of the best athletes seem to be the vegans who do it right.

 

It's quality over quantity simple as that. Also meat cuts down oxygen capacity slightly.

[tulku]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIcSuA2b_Wc

Here is a huge list of vegan bodybuilders and atheletes.

I don't believe that the list is so huge. Any fakes on the list?

[suninmyeyes]

Just google vegan athlets ,they are out there.

Out of more famous ones Carl Lewis is vegan for example.

I am raw vegan, stronger with more endurance and flexibility than ever before at 38, feeling and looking younger.

Strenght and endurance does not come from meat.

[Non]

very possible. You have to do your own research though. I follow more than one person in the raw food movement, and combine them to see which is best.

I just don't believe in the whole fruitarian thing though. I follow a raw vegan diet based on the Zone diet principles. Except for the protein to carb ratio, being that supposedly 40-50 percent of the protein after being heated above 115 is denatured as well as the enzymes. So I pretty much assume that all protein is double effective when raw, especially considering the enzymes. It's also more about quality protein than quantity, and the ratio of protein to carbs. Since I stay away from more higher glycemic veggies it ensures that all the food I eat is low glycmic. These are basically the raw low-starch veggies. So being that raw protein is higher in quality, and that raw low starch veggies are usually low glycemic and lower in carbs it suggests that a low carb raw vegan diet is totally feasible.

And cheap.

I basically have 2 lbs or more of greens that run about 1.50 or less a head of lettuce. I might have some thicker greens. Some cheap low starch veggies. Some of the cheapest seeds like sunflower, flax, and pumpkin seeds for higher protein. I might also have some low glycemic fruits like berries and add a very small amount in a salad. That's it. It's pretty basic, no flavors or anything, unless I want to make a special meal.

Heck you can even do a ketogenic diet on raw as long as you stick to the greens and have nuts/seeds, and eat that all day long. I've done it before, and you basically have to stay under 20g of NET CARBS every 4 hrs. This is easily done and you still can end up having a HUGE SALAD with more than enough stuff to eat and still be under 20g of carbs. Edited August 19, 2011 by Non

[Non]

as for 5 element dietary principles on a raw vegan diet: it works.

 

Traditionally too much raw foods can harm, but that's more ancient tradition. Most common vegan foods in general are cold/yin in nature so it doesn't matter whether you cook it or not, it still can end up being yin or cooling a lot of the times when compared to meat. For dampness just make sure nothing is in excess. So you just find the heating plant foods, exercise, balance the elements, etc. Don't eat too much cold foods you can warm them lightly. You also don't have to be 100% raw, you can still have teas, or some herbal supplements, etc. I still believe in some cooked/heated foods for special purposes.

 

As to the whole cooked vs raw tomato thing, I look at it like this: You have more lycopene available when you cook foods. Ok I guess if you have a need for more lycopene in your diet I guess that would be of use. But also cooking makes the tomato more acid, denaturing proteins and enzymes, cooking out the bio-energy as macronutrients are broken down, etc. So there is some use in cooking tomatoes, there is also use in not cooking a tomato. So really it depends on individual needs. One is not better or worse but for long term I think raw tomato is better. If a plant has to be cooked to make it palatable or less poisonous than that means one should be very careful with that plant.

Edited August 20, 2011 by Non

[Astral_Anima]

as for 5 element dietary principles on a raw vegan diet: it works.

 

Traditionally too much raw foods can harm, but that's more ancient tradition. Most vegan foods in general are cold/yin in nature so it doesn't matter whether you cook it or not, it still can end up being yin or cooling a lot of the times when compared to meat. So you just find the heating plant foods, exercise, balance the elements, etc. Don't eat too much cold foods you can warm them lightly. You also don't have to be 100% raw, you can still have teas, or some herbal supplements, etc. I still believe in some cooked/heated foods for special purposes.

 

As to the whole cooked vs raw tomato thing, I look at it like this: You have more lycopene available when you cook foods. Ok I guess if you have a need for more lycopene in your diet I guess that would be of use. But also cooking makes the tomato more acid, denaturing proteins and enzymes, cooking out the bio-energy as macronutrients are broken down, etc. So there is some use in cooking tomatoes, there is also use in not cooking a tomato. So really it depends on individual needs. One is not better or worse but for long term I think raw tomato is better. If a plant has to be cooked to make it palatable or less poisonous than that means one should be very careful with that plant.

 

The lycopene is a myth. Look for the original study. There was less overall lycopene content but the body absorbed a higher percentage of what was left out of the cooked tomato. The body absorbed roughly the same amount of lycopene out of each but it absorbed a HIGHER PERCENTAGE of the lycopene out of the cooked tomato because there was less overall lycopene available. Ever hear of a raw foodist with a lycopene deficiency?

 

Re-yin foods. For people who do kundalini yoga, tantra, tumo or hard exercise this is the most beneficial diet available to man. For the lazy sedentary type...stick to you cooked foods and go back to sleep Meditate, meditate, meditate. Empty the mind and let the fire rise or focus the mind and force it to arise, or just run around and circulate your energy/blood. Or just use alot of cayanne.

 

-Astral

Edited August 19, 2011 by Astral_Anima

[Astral_Anima]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIcSuA2b_Wc

 

Here is a huge list of vegan bodybuilders and atheletes.

 

I don't believe that the list is so huge. Any fakes on the list?

 

Why don't you believe this to be possible? How do regular body builders do it? Overload on protein so that you have a huge amount of undigested protein matter forced in between the cells to give the illusion of "muscle mass". Look at the amount of food that most vegan bodybuilders eat! and all the soy protein powder. Well guess what... sunwarior protein powder: it's a RAW VEGAN protein made from sprouted brown rice. It's very easy to continue to overeat and pack on unusually large amount of protein and get the same results using the same techniques as the meat eaters do. However I'm sure once he begins to TRUELY detoxify those muscles will be going "Bye bye" Most muscles that we call "big" are really just swollen, inflamed by all the acidic by-products of a high protein diet and too much food.

 

But don't misunderstand, this is still very possible. If one were to detoxify long enough, first you'd get very skinny while your body releases all the crap you've been overloading yourself with. Because absorbtion in the small bowel is still weak, you will be rather skinny in the initial stages. Then afterwards when the mucus is cleared up and the lymph is moving well, pancreas and small bowel restored, you'll begin to put on mass on teh same diet you've been losing it on. Check out Chris Califano at http://thefirstsupper.com/, he did it that way, he's a high carb, high fruit guy. That kind of diet will cause most to become SUPER skinny (like me atm) until they cleanse their digestive tracts of all obstructions. Then of course you can take herbs like terrestrius(spelling?) and Yohimbe and Maca, and Tonkat Ali to boost testosterone and such and put on MASSIVE amounts of REAL muscle (even though I believe the only thing that happens is that you increase blood flow which stretches the muscle fiber to accommodate more blood flow which increases the size, similar to penis enlargment exercises). The way to tell the diff is when you fast or eat a low protein diet you shouldn't lose muscle, thats a sign that the "muscle" you had is of low quality. Also remember that size doesn't mean strength, and if you wanted TRUE strength, you wouldn't work out and eat a high protein diet, you'd meditate and practice nei-gong like good wittle daoists

 

REMINDER: The above is my opinion based on my experience with myself and talking to others.

 

-Astral

Edited August 19, 2011 by Astral_Anima

[tulku]

Why don't you believe this to be possible? How do regular body builders do it? Overload on protein so that you have a huge amount of undigested protein matter forced in between the cells to give the illusion of "muscle mass". Look at the amount of food that most vegan bodybuilders eat! and all the soy protein powder. Well guess what... sunwarior protein powder: it's a RAW VEGAN protein made from sprouted brown rice. It's very easy to continue to overeat and pack on unusually large amount of protein and get the same results using the same techniques as the meat eaters do. However I'm sure once he begins to TRUELY detoxify those muscles will be going "Bye bye" Most muscles that we call "big" are really just swollen, inflamed by all the acidic by-products of a high protein diet and too much food.

 

But don't misunderstand, this is still very possible. If one were to detoxify long enough, first you'd get very skinny while your body releases all the crap you've been overloading yourself with. Because absorbtion in the small bowel is still weak, you will be rather skinny in the initial stages. Then afterwards when the mucus is cleared up and the lymph is moving well, pancreas and small bowel restored, you'll begin to put on mass on teh same diet you've been losing it on. Check out Chris Califano at http://thefirstsupper.com/, he did it that way, he's a high carb, high fruit guy. That kind of diet will cause most to become SUPER skinny (like me atm) until they cleanse their digestive tracts of all obstructions. Then of course you can take herbs like terrestrius(spelling?) and Yohimbe and Maca, and Tonkat Ali to boost testosterone and such and put on MASSIVE amounts of REAL muscle (even though I believe the only thing that happens is that you increase blood flow which stretches the muscle fiber to accommodate more blood flow which increases the size, similar to penis enlargment exercises). The way to tell the diff is when you fast or eat a low protein diet you shouldn't lose muscle, thats a sign that the "muscle" you had is of low quality. Also remember that size doesn't mean strength, and if you wanted TRUE strength, you wouldn't work out and eat a high protein diet, you'd meditate and practice nei-gong like good wittle daoists

 

http://www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=723

 

from what i read during the last few hours, it seems that there is quite a few bodybuilders/atheletes who managed to switch successfully to vegan without losing weight or the ability to compete..

Edited August 19, 2011 by tulku

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[fizix]

It's called genetics, my friends.

[NeiChuan]

It's called genetics, my friends.

 

Haha They do play a part.

 

I gain muscle quite easily, but while I was strictly on a vegan diet, I did recover pretttty fast.. Even doing 20 sets of workouts every other day.

[h.uriahr]

It's called genetics, my friends.

Genetics are overrated. Roids are the way to go.

 

Honestly though, bodybuilding and steroids are like donuts and milk or coffee and cream or ebony and ivory etc etc.

Raw or not and even the so called "natural" bodybuilder isn't exactly natural.

 

I'm not saying theyre bad. I'm just trying to bring some reality to this thread.

Edited August 20, 2011 by h.uriahr

[tulku]

Genetics are overrated. Roids are the way to go.

 

Honestly though, bodybuilding and steroids are like donuts and milk or coffee and cream or ebony and ivory etc etc.

Raw or not and even the so called "natural" bodybuilder isn't exactly natural.

 

I'm not saying theyre bad. I'm just trying to bring some reality to this thread.

 

raw bodybuilders don't use steroids.

 

they are already going vegan for health and longetivity so it would be quite impossible for them to use steroids which are even more harmful to their bodies than regular, bad junkfood.

 

it would be like taking one step forward, 2 steps back

[tulku]

Haha They do play a part.

 

I gain muscle quite easily, but while I was strictly on a vegan diet, I did recover pretttty fast.. Even doing 20 sets of workouts every other day.

 

did you recover fast bcos of your genetics or bcos of your vegan diet?

[tulku]

It's called genetics, my friends.

 

Yes everybody has genetics.

 

Kinda like how Bill Gates and Warren Buffet has the "rich men" genetics.

[Cat Pillar]

I'm hardcore addicted to bad food. Especially dairy. I can down 3 cups of cottage cheese in one sitting and still want more!

 

Bland food bores me, I'm addicted to the endorphin release of flavor. This is why I've never attempted a raw diet, seems like it would be really boring to eat.

 

Maybe I should work on my perception of eating as entertainment rather than just a fueling process for the body.

 

Here's a question, though. Once you're through detoxing, do the cravings for the unhealthy stuff stop?

 

I could probably do a fruit diet of some kind. I love me some fruit!

[mYTHmAKER]

I'm hardcore addicted to bad food. Especially dairy. I can down 3 cups of cottage cheese in one sitting and still want more!

 

Bland food bores me, I'm addicted to the endorphin release of flavor. This is why I've never attempted a raw diet, seems like it would be really boring to eat.

 

Maybe I should work on my perception of eating as entertainment rather than just a fueling process for the body.

 

Here's a question, though. Once you're through detoxing, do the cravings for the unhealthy stuff stop?

 

I could probably do a fruit diet of some kind. I love me some fruit!

 

Once you are detoxed what you now call bland food actually tastes delicious.

Once you start adding salt and sugar - sweeteners- your taste buds become dull.

[Astral_Anima]

I'm hardcore addicted to bad food. Especially dairy. I can down 3 cups of cottage cheese in one sitting and still want more!

 

Bland food bores me, I'm addicted to the endorphin release of flavor. This is why I've never attempted a raw diet, seems like it would be really boring to eat.

 

Maybe I should work on my perception of eating as entertainment rather than just a fueling process for the body.

 

Here's a question, though. Once you're through detoxing, do the cravings for the unhealthy stuff stop?

 

I could probably do a fruit diet of some kind. I love me some fruit!

 

Once you're TRULY through detoxing you no longer need food . And I can tell you from experience fruit diet are the top of the chain in term of consciousness, endurance, energy and sensitivity when it comes to raw foods. You can eat raw food and still be unhealthy. This "gourmet" raw food where you make your fav cooked foods out of raw foods (raw apple pie, raw pasta, raw cakes, raw ice cream, etc) is ridiculous imo. Then you have the high fat raw which is nice for a time but you'll never get the energy and blissful awareness of a pure fruit diet on those other ones.

 

As for the cravings, most of it is parasite related if on the physical level. Get rid of the yeast/mold/fungus etc which feed on fermentation (starches, cheese, dairy), and you should be good. The only enemy from that point on is your mind. Obviously you still remember the "sensations" you got from those foods, you just need to reprogram your mind to recognize those feelings as illusory because if you were to eat those foods now (after you've detoxed a bit) they'll taste terrible and make you feel terrible. Then again if you eat enough fruit, the mind will get it's glucose and probably won't send any "I need energy" signals nor should it desire anything.

 

Cat if you consider doing a fruit diet and need some inspiration, look up doug graham and the 80/10/10 book. You can also check out sites like 30bananasaday.com . These guys are hard core fruit eaters and have plenty of good advice on how to make it work. Idk if you practice spontaneous qigong at all, but if you do you'll notice another little perk in regards to that while on a fruit diet

 

-Astral

[Tactile]

Once you're TRULY through detoxing you no longer need food . And I can tell you from experience fruit diet are the top of the chain in term of consciousness, endurance, energy and sensitivity when it comes to raw foods. You can eat raw food and still be unhealthy. This "gourmet" raw food where you make your fav cooked foods out of raw foods (raw apple pie, raw pasta, raw cakes, raw ice cream, etc) is ridiculous imo. Then you have the high fat raw which is nice for a time but you'll never get the energy and blissful awareness of a pure fruit diet on those other ones.

 

As for the cravings, most of it is parasite related if on the physical level. Get rid of the yeast/mold/fungus etc which feed on fermentation (starches, cheese, dairy), and you should be good. The only enemy from that point on is your mind. Obviously you still remember the "sensations" you got from those foods, you just need to reprogram your mind to recognize those feelings as illusory because if you were to eat those foods now (after you've detoxed a bit) they'll taste terrible and make you feel terrible. Then again if you eat enough fruit, the mind will get it's glucose and probably won't send any "I need energy" signals nor should it desire anything.

 

Cat if you consider doing a fruit diet and need some inspiration, look up doug graham and the 80/10/10 book. You can also check out sites like 30bananasaday.com . These guys are hard core fruit eaters and have plenty of good advice on how to make it work. Idk if you practice spontaneous qigong at all, but if you do you'll notice another little perk in regards to that while on a fruit diet

 

-Astral

 

Regarding the 30bad crowd.. from what I've gathered they don't seem to be that well connected with reality sometimes. The 80/10/10 raw food lifestyle is seen as some omnipotent answer for all health problems. The site is heavily moderated and dissenting opinions are not allowed on the site and if people post about having health problems while on 80/10/10 usually the answer seems to be that the person isn't just trying hard enough. I don't think that's a very healthy way to run a community.

 

I don't think there's anything bad eating a lot of fruit btw, I just think that subsisting solely on them while at the same time being dogmatic about it is likely to lead you to health problems sooner or later. And yes, I know that there are people like these raw bodybuilder guys but PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT. Some have killer digestive genes and can eat anything some people need to be much more careful how they eat..

[tulku]

Regarding the 30bad crowd.. from what I've gathered they don't seem to be that well connected with reality sometimes. The 80/10/10 raw food lifestyle is seen as some omnipotent answer for all health problems. The site is heavily moderated and dissenting opinions are not allowed on the site and if people post about having health problems while on 80/10/10 usually the answer seems to be that the person isn't just trying hard enough. I don't think that's a very healthy way to run a community.

 

I don't think there's anything bad eating a lot of fruit btw, I just think that subsisting solely on them while at the same time being dogmatic about it is likely to lead you to health problems sooner or later. And yes, I know that there are people like these raw bodybuilder guys but PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT. Some have killer digestive genes and can eat anything some people need to be much more careful how they eat..

 

are you saying that these shaolin monks are different?

 

 

these vegan monks look pretty bulked and more importantly, strong to me

 

How many meat-eating bodybuilders can wrestle a cow into the ground?

Edited August 20, 2011 by tulku

[NeiChuan]

did you recover fast bcos of your genetics or bcos of your vegan diet?

 

 

Believe it was cause the food and stuff I was taking in yeah. Seemed even though I pushed myself very hard I wouldn't stay sore nearly as I long would in the past, doing an intermediate workout.

Edited August 20, 2011 by NeiChuan

[Audiohealing]

Your post made me want to slap my monitor. Muscles are "built" when resistance training causes micro-lesions in the muscle tissue which is systematically rebuilt during rest using amino acids as building blocks. When it rebuilds it grows larger. Muscle mass is no illusion. Once the muscle you have is on you the only variable to how big it looks at that point is water content.

 

Big muscles are swollen muscles? I think your brain is swollen.

 

I could go on but it's pretty redundant.

 

Just answer me this: what exactly is a "toxin"? Don't give me a vague definition like "it's dirty poo poo waste your body stores up". I want the actual molecular composition of what a toxin is. Please, tell me- I am dying to know.

 

 

Why don't you believe this to be possible? How do regular body builders do it? Overload on protein so that you have a huge amount of undigested protein matter forced in between the cells to give the illusion of "muscle mass". Look at the amount of food that most vegan bodybuilders eat! and all the soy protein powder. Well guess what... sunwarior protein powder: it's a RAW VEGAN protein made from sprouted brown rice. It's very easy to continue to overeat and pack on unusually large amount of protein and get the same results using the same techniques as the meat eaters do. However I'm sure once he begins to TRUELY detoxify those muscles will be going "Bye bye" Most muscles that we call "big" are really just swollen, inflamed by all the acidic by-products of a high protein diet and too much food.

 

But don't misunderstand, this is still very possible. If one were to detoxify long enough, first you'd get very skinny while your body releases all the crap you've been overloading yourself with. Because absorbtion in the small bowel is still weak, you will be rather skinny in the initial stages. Then afterwards when the mucus is cleared up and the lymph is moving well, pancreas and small bowel restored, you'll begin to put on mass on teh same diet you've been losing it on. Check out Chris Califano at http://thefirstsupper.com/, he did it that way, he's a high carb, high fruit guy. That kind of diet will cause most to become SUPER skinny (like me atm) until they cleanse their digestive tracts of all obstructions. Then of course you can take herbs like terrestrius(spelling?) and Yohimbe and Maca, and Tonkat Ali to boost testosterone and such and put on MASSIVE amounts of REAL muscle (even though I believe the only thing that happens is that you increase blood flow which stretches the muscle fiber to accommodate more blood flow which increases the size, similar to penis enlargment exercises). The way to tell the diff is when you fast or eat a low protein diet you shouldn't lose muscle, thats a sign that the "muscle" you had is of low quality. Also remember that size doesn't mean strength, and if you wanted TRUE strength, you wouldn't work out and eat a high protein diet, you'd meditate and practice nei-gong like good wittle daoists

 

REMINDER: The above is my opinion based on my experience with myself and talking to others.

 

-Astral

[Cat Pillar]

Once you are detoxed what you now call bland food actually tastes delicious.

Once you start adding salt and sugar - sweeteners- your taste buds become dull.

 

Interesting. Could be time for an experiment then!

 

Once you're TRULY through detoxing you no longer need food . And I can tell you from experience fruit diet are the top of the chain in term of consciousness, endurance, energy and sensitivity when it comes to raw foods. You can eat raw food and still be unhealthy. This "gourmet" raw food where you make your fav cooked foods out of raw foods (raw apple pie, raw pasta, raw cakes, raw ice cream, etc) is ridiculous imo. Then you have the high fat raw which is nice for a time but you'll never get the energy and blissful awareness of a pure fruit diet on those other ones.

 

As for the cravings, most of it is parasite related if on the physical level. Get rid of the yeast/mold/fungus etc which feed on fermentation (starches, cheese, dairy), and you should be good. The only enemy from that point on is your mind. Obviously you still remember the "sensations" you got from those foods, you just need to reprogram your mind to recognize those feelings as illusory because if you were to eat those foods now (after you've detoxed a bit) they'll taste terrible and make you feel terrible. Then again if you eat enough fruit, the mind will get it's glucose and probably won't send any "I need energy" signals nor should it desire anything.

 

Cat if you consider doing a fruit diet and need some inspiration, look up doug graham and the 80/10/10 book. You can also check out sites like 30bananasaday.com . These guys are hard core fruit eaters and have plenty of good advice on how to make it work. Idk if you practice spontaneous qigong at all, but if you do you'll notice another little perk in regards to that while on a fruit diet

 

-Astral

 

Thanks for the reply, Astral. Giving up cheese and dairy would be a test of will, that's for sure. That's my favorite food...well, aside from sushi.

 

Thanks for the recommendations, too. I'll have to check those sources out.

 

What about detox diets? Y'know, like the 7-day liquid fasts where you drink some nasty lemon-based concoction and take supplements to pull a Drano on your digestive tract.

[Astral_Anima]

Audio - Wow, that was easy. If thats all it takes to get an emotional response I'm sure energy vamps must salivate at the look of you

As for the molecular structure of toxins....Eeesh, maybe someone can help me out here. Anyone know what the molecular structure of fear is?

 

Cat- I could share my intellectual understanding of things but I think it's best if you make your goals clear and known to yourself and follow your intuition, thats your best guide. I've done the "Lemonade Detox" with the cayanne and syrup and such, plus many others. They're interesting experiments indeed but tend to be short lived. The purgatives are fun to do, colonics, liver flushes, oxygen therapy, electric therapy, etc, and they help get a "head start" but ultimately in the end it's up to the body to clean itself out it's own way, and it's up to us to surrender to it, get out of it's way and enjoy the ride back to divinity. Imho, cultivating a high body intuition is much more valuable than the physical cleansing, it just so happens that by doing intense cleanses you develop a certain sensitivity where you're more in touch with your body and your emotions. If we could just empty our minds and forget everything we've been told, and just trust our bodily wisdom, our intuition, the "god" within us...I believe we'd all be in a state of divinity.

 

From experience, if you fast when you're not ready for it there's a high chance you wont be able to handle the emotional strain, fear and panic will arise and you'll "lose it" and binge on the most aweful of things, it happens time and time again. However i've noticed when I go on pure fruit (or close to it as I can get) there's an initial stage of getting used to the new vibration (which is much higher but not too far of a leap to lose control), but after I've adjusted what'll happen is after a time my body will say "I don't want any more food" and a natural fast will ensue. There will still be discomfort but if you're in tune with your body you'll be able to handle it. Your mind will be less likely to panic and get in the way. As i said earlier, if you practice Spontaneous Qigong via kunlun, yigong or whatever else, it'll help to start the process of emotional release and will aid you immensely(imo).

Only eat when your body says "i'm hungry", only drink when your body says "I'm thirsty". As you get more in tune you'll learn to recognize when you're ACTUALLY hungry and when you're just eating to suppress the discomfort of the physical/emotional cleansing that naturally happens when the energy is freed from digestion and over thinking.

Again, to me it's more of a slow gradual thing, an evolution, rather than a leap (Which sucks for me because I used to be quite the extremist, rushing blindly until I got beat around a few times and learned to cool my ambition).

 

Hope all goes well, may love consume you

-Astral