Tai Chi Body Coordination Demo

[ChiDragon]

This demo shows the body coordination with the mind starting with the famous Tai Ji movement the "Four Corners".

 

[Stigweard]

OK so you want some comments?

 

Well firstly it's obvious you are well practiced in these sequences. There were some nice pathways going on. You allowed the moves to be fluid with one gesture fairly much flowing into the next. Groovy.

 

The footwork was smooth and clean with the weight properly distributed in the feet and your stances are well proportioned, nice.

 

 

But there is no power being issued from the legs. When you step, instead of powering up from the legs into the hips and waist, you are "falling" from one leg to the other. You need to engage the legs more remembering that in Taiji power is initiated in the feet, issued by the legs, controlled by the hips and expressed in the fingertips.

 

Your hips and waist are dormant. There is no transmission of power there; no indication that your mind/intent is centering itself in the dan tien. This follows into the torso, there is no power shifting through your spine. Your torso is frozen.

 

This is all because your mind is too high. Your thoughts are in your arms, too focused on making the arms look right instead of allowing power to flow up through the body out through the arms. As a result your arms and hands are too high, unnecessarily exposing your midrift to attacks.

 

But otherwise nice sequencing.

 

[mYTHmAKER]

Nice flowing movement.

Try putting some attention on your Tan Tien so your breath and form will sink.

[ChiDragon]

Well firstly it's obvious you are well practiced in these sequences. There were some nice pathways going on. You allowed the moves to be fluid with one gesture fairly much flowing into the next. Groovy.

 

The footwork was smooth and clean with the weight properly distributed in the feet and your stances are well proportioned, nice.

 

 

1. But there is no power being issued from the legs. When you step, instead of powering up from the legs into the hips and waist, you are "falling" from one leg to the other. You need to engage the legs more remembering that in Taiji power is initiated in the feet, issued by the legs, controlled by the hips and expressed in the fingertips.

 

2. Your hips and waist are dormant. There is no transmission of power there; no indication that your mind/intent is centering itself in the dan tien. This follows into the torso, there is no power shifting through your spine. Your torso is frozen.

 

3. This is all because your mind is too high. Your thoughts are in your arms, too focused on making the arms look right instead of allowing power to flow up through the body out through the arms. As a result your arms and hands are too high, unnecessarily exposing your midrift to attacks.

 

But otherwise nice sequencing.

 

 

Stigweard...

Thank you very much.

 

I had been following the thread about Fa Jin. I had express my share with comments in one or two posts. Then, I had decided to back off for further comments.

 

1. No power being issued from the legs. I am "falling" from one leg to the other was a complete Yin-Yang cycle. I don't quite follow this: "powering up from the legs into the hips and waist" and the rest.

 

2. My hips and waist are dormant was because they in the Yin state while the hands are in motion in the Yang state. The Yin-Yang concept was only move the part of the body as require, otherwise, leave them in the Yin state. There was no need for the transmission of power, where do you expect the power to be transmitted to...???

 

My torso was frozen was because I had no intention to move it in any direction. FYI Call it frozen if you like. However, in the Tai Ji language, if there was any body parts do not need to be in motion, it was considered that they are in the Yin or energy reserving state.

 

No no indication that your mind/intent is centering itself in the dan tien.

 

It seems to me that most people are not quite sure what "sunk Chi to the dan tien" means. It simply means take a deep breath and have the breath sunken down to the abdomen which known as "abdominal breathing". The deep breath reached to the dan tien was not an issue which related to the mind but the breath was.

 

3. I was not considered myself to be in a combat situation. It was only a practice in breathing and muscle control. The power you are referring to are the Jin in my muscles. The Jin are already developed in all the muscles, Fa Jin can just take place in any muscle, there was no need for the power to go from one place to another as the way you had described.

[suninmyeyes]

Nice to see you doing tai chi.

I too think that form needs to sink.Let the dantien turn and move you.

[ChiDragon]

Nice to see you doing tai chi.

I too think that form needs to sink.Let the dantien turn and move you.

Thank you very much. I hear people have different things to say about the dan tien. I am just so curious why dan tien does not have a uniform meaning throughout the martial arts industry.

 

What do you mean by "let the dan tien turn....."....???

[suninmyeyes]

Thank you very much. I hear people have different things to say about the dan tien. I am just so curious why dan tien does not have a uniform meaning throughout the martial arts industry.

 

What do you mean by "let the dan tien turn....."....???

When the breathing is even and deep and attention is on dantien ,dantien turns and directs , it becomes the 'new brain' .And a person becomes unmistakingly bouyant,and not stiff.

You are very brave to be open to critique like this and have my admiring for that.

 

As to not having a uniform way to explanations -it is to be expected as humans are not robots and it is natural that slightly different sounding explanations may occur due to the view through personal understanding and becouse of their own personality and abilty to explain.

 

To be honest I havent heard or read people say that much of a different things about dantien so far.

[VCraigP]

OK so you want some comments?

 

Well firstly it's obvious you are well practiced in these sequences. There were some nice pathways going on. You allowed the moves to be fluid with one gesture fairly much flowing into the next. Groovy.

 

The footwork was smooth and clean with the weight properly distributed in the feet and your stances are well proportioned, nice.

 

 

But there is no power being issued from the legs. When you step, instead of powering up from the legs into the hips and waist, you are "falling" from one leg to the other. You need to engage the legs more remembering that in Taiji power is initiated in the feet, issued by the legs, controlled by the hips and expressed in the fingertips.

 

Your hips and waist are dormant. There is no transmission of power there; no indication that your mind/intent is centering itself in the dan tien. This follows into the torso, there is no power shifting through your spine. Your torso is frozen.

 

This is all because your mind is too high. Your thoughts are in your arms, too focused on making the arms look right instead of allowing power to flow up through the body out through the arms. As a result your arms and hands are too high, unnecessarily exposing your midrift to attacks.

 

But otherwise nice sequencing.

 

 

Stig

 

Can we see your form anywhere?

 

Will you critique my form if I post it? Not kidding. I just have to find a missing piece from from tripod so I can do some filming.

 

Chi Dragon - Sorry to partially derail your thread. Brave of you to expose your practice directly here.

 

Craig

[doc benway]

When the breathing is even and deep and attention is on dantien ,dantien turns and directs , it becomes the 'new brain' .And a person becomes unmistakingly bouyant,and not stiff.

Very nicely stated (as always!).

Do you practice Taijiquan?

[ChiDragon]

I want to thank some of you for your sincere compliments for one's bravery. I would like to think it was not a matter of bravery rather than confidence and principle. I had learned all that from this forum and all of you, the practice and the Tao Te Ching.

 

It was like what LaoTze had told Confucius:

We are here to learn from each other but not to compete with each other. You might know more than me today, then you are my teacher. I might know more tomorrow, then I am your teacher.

 

This was just balancing the Yin and the Yang in action and reaction.

 

Chi Dragon - Sorry to partially derail your thread. Brave of you to expose your practice directly here.

 

No problem. My thread is your thread.

[ChiDragon]

BTW...

In the video, if you have noticed that I was hesitated at 1:04 because I was thinking about something else and lost my concentration at the moment. This is an indication of the importance of the yi or intent of the mind. Thus it was just a split of a second will cause an error in the movement.

[suninmyeyes]

Very nicely stated (as always!).

Do you practice Taijiquan?

Yeah chen tai chi for past 3 years, but that means nothing as I am taking super slow to learn.Basically I am pretty bad at it,but do enjoy it.

[Stigweard]

Stig

 

Can we see your form anywhere?

 

Will you critique my form if I post it? Not kidding. I just have to find a missing piece from from tripod so I can do some filming.

 

Chi Dragon - Sorry to partially derail your thread. Brave of you to expose your practice directly here.

 

Craig

LOL my students keep hassling me to do DVD's, I keep saying I will. All things in time. I have a short clip of me doing a demo but I don't know how to get it off the disc and onto my computer to upload to Youtube

 

I would be happy to critique your form. Getting Steve on the job as well will be beneficial. It would seem he and I see things quite similar though with enough variation for it to be interesting.

 

[Stigweard]

1. No power being issued from the legs. I am "falling" from one leg to the other was a complete Yin-Yang cycle. I don't quite follow this: "powering up from the legs into the hips and waist" and the rest.

 

2. My hips and waist are dormant was because they in the Yin state while the hands are in motion in the Yang state. The Yin-Yang concept was only move the part of the body as require, otherwise, leave them in the Yin state. There was no need for the transmission of power, where do you expect the power to be transmitted to...???

 

My torso was frozen was because I had no intention to move it in any direction. FYI Call it frozen if you like. However, in the Tai Ji language, if there was any body parts do not need to be in motion, it was considered that they are in the Yin or energy reserving state.

 

It seems to me that most people are not quite sure what "sunk Chi to the dan tien" means. It simply means take a deep breath and have the breath sunken down to the abdomen which known as "abdominal breathing". The deep breath reached to the dan tien was not an issue which related to the mind but the breath was.

 

3. I was not considered myself to be in a combat situation. It was only a practice in breathing and muscle control. The power you are referring to are the Jin in my muscles. The Jin are already developed in all the muscles, Fa Jin can just take place in any muscle, there was no need for the power to go from one place to another as the way you had described.

 

1. "In Taiji power is initiated in the feet, issued by the legs, controlled by the hips and expressed in the fingertips." What does this mean to you?

 

2. For power to flow through the body, every part of the body should be alive, not frozen and dormant. Any tension acts as a resistor to the flow of movement which means the movement will lose its vitality and dissipate before you have the opportunity to issue that force.

 

In such a case people will "cheat" with the movement and only move their arms trying to imitate what they think the movement should look like. Regardless on how pretty they make the arms, the movement becomes contrived and external rather than ziran and internal.

 

3. Remove the martial arts from Taijiquan and its no longer Taijiquan. Remove fighting from martial arts and its no longer martial arts. You must put your form under the pressure of a non-abiding opponent and then you must remember that context when you are training solo. To do otherwise leads to abstracted fantasies.

 

Just my honest opinion

[ChiDragon]

1. "In Taiji power is initiated in the feet, issued by the legs, controlled by the hips and expressed in the fingertips." What does this mean to you?

 

2. For power to flow through the body, every part of the body should be alive, not frozen and dormant. Any tension acts as a resistor to the flow of movement which means the movement will lose its vitality and dissipate before you have the opportunity to issue that force.

 

In such a case people will "cheat" with the movement and only move their arms trying to imitate what they think the movement should look like. Regardless on how pretty they make the arms, the movement becomes contrived and external rather than ziran and internal.

 

3. Remove the martial arts from Taijiquan and its no longer Taijiquan. Remove fighting from martial arts and its no longer martial arts. You must put your form under the pressure of a non-abiding opponent and then you must remember that context when you are training solo. To do otherwise leads to abstracted fantasies.

 

Just my honest opinion

1. It means that those are, only, and only your honest opinion. Tai Ji Power is Jin to me. Jin are distributed all over the body that can be initiated from anywhere of the body; but not just in the feet, legs or hips.

 

2. All the power were reserved when not in use. The word "frozen" is a terrible term for Tai Ji Chuan. In terms of Tai Ji, it was referred as the "Yin state" implicating that the energy was being preserved and ready to strike at any instance. If all the power were being applied to the body before a strike, it was considered a waste of energy. What you were saying really defeated the purpose of Tai Ji.

 

The Tai Ji concept was if you don't move, I don't. If you move, then I'll move before you. The idea was when the opponent was in motion, actually it was a waste of energy. While you are standing still and reserving your energy, it was said to be that you are in a Yin state. By the time your opponent gets to you, then he was changing from a Yang state to a Yin state, but you will be in the transition from a Yin state to Yang state. Indeed, that was why we hear the statement all the time: "The softness always overcome the hardness". By that time, your opponent was at the end of the Yang state against your beginning of the Yang state, you have an advantage over your opponent. It was because your opponent had exhausted his power(Yin state) while your energy was being reserved(Yang state).

 

3. Any martial arts was considered to be an art for body development. If one think of it as martial arts, then one will degrade its original virtue of the martial spirit.

Edited August 22, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Stigweard]

1. It means that those are, only, and only your honest opinion. Tai Ji Power is Jin to me. Jin are distributed all over the body that can be initiated from anywhere of the body; but not just in the feet, legs or hips.

 

2. All the power were reserved when not in use. The word "frozen" is a terrible term for Tai Ji Chuan. In terms of Tai Ji, it was referred as the "Yin state" implicating that the energy was being preserved and ready to strike at any instance. If all the power were being applied to the body before a strike, it was considered a waste of energy. What you were saying really defeated the purpose of Tai Ji.

 

The Tai Ji concept was if you don't move, I don't. If you move, then I'll move before you. The idea was when the opponent was in motion, actually it was a waste of energy. While you are standing still and reserving your energy, it was said to be that you are in a Yin state. By the time your opponent gets to you, then he was changing from a Yang state to a Yin state, but you will be in the transition from a Yin state to Yang state. Indeed, that was why we hear the statement all the time: "The softness always overcome the hardness". By that time, your opponent was at the end of the Yang state against your beginning of the Yin state, you have an advantage over your opponent. It was because your opponent had exhausted his power while your energy was being reserved.

 

3. Any martial arts was considered to be an art for body development. If one think of it as martial arts, then one will degrade its original virtue of the martial spirit.

1. Nope, this is the instruction from the Taiji classics. Steve is much more of a scholar in this than I so if he reads this maybe he can post up the appropriate references.

 

2. Don't like the word "frozen"? How about stiff and rigid then? Please remember that I am basing my critique on how I do Taiji and how I was taught (traditional Yang family coming down from Yang Sao Chung, and Chen Man Ching form coming down from Huang Shyan). If you don't think my critque is relevant than don't take it onboard. But you did ask for comments

 

From my persepective you are demonstrating no transmission of power through your body, thus, if push came to shove, your Jin is only coming from the arms.

 

3. BS ... Taijiquan is a martial art. Remove that aspect and its no longer Taijiquan, more like Taiji gymnastics. How can you possible honor the "martial spirit" if you don't train it as a martial arts??

[ChiDragon]

Stigweard...

I have one of Chen Man Ching's books.

 

I know what you were saying. Your comments are will considered as in general for the over all conceptual philosophy of Tai Chi. I just sensed that there were something still missing or maybe you have not mentioned or something that I see but you don't. Anyway, nice talking to you...

Edited August 22, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Stigweard]

Stigweard...

I have one of Chen Man Ching's books.

 

I know what you were saying. Your comments are will considered as in general for the over all conceptual philosophy of Tai Chi. I just sensed that there were something still missing or maybe you have not mentioned or something that I see but you don't. Anyway, nice talking to you...

 

Ah yes ... you don't understand what I am getting at so there must be something wrong with me. Typical CD, very typical.

 

[ChiDragon]

Stigweard...

I like you very much as you are. There was only a missing link in our conversation. That's all....

[Stigweard]

Found what I was looking for:

 

Fajin theory or 发劲理论 states 蓄劲如开弓，发劲如放箭，其根在于脚，发于腿，主宰于腰，行于手指" 的行径。此外，还应敛气凝神、以呼气助发劲

 

Translation: storing jin/energy is like loading an arrow on a bow and actual release of energy is to release like shooting the arrow. the root is in the feet, exerts from the legs, commands from the waist and travels to the extremities/fingers. Furthermore there should be coordination between the qi and spirit with the breathing assisting in the fajin)

 

This was care of Warmond Fang from Ontario.

 

[ChiDragon]

Fajin theory or 发劲理论 states 蓄劲如开弓，发劲如放箭，其根在于脚，发于腿，主宰于腰，行于手指" 的行径。此外，还应敛气凝神、以呼气助发劲

 

Fa Jin is like pulling a bow. Fa Jin is like shooting an arrow. Its root is on the feet, release it from the legs, driven by the waist, executed from the fingers as a procedure. Outside of that, one must control the breathing and concentrate, and with exhalation in assisting to Fa Jin.

 

Interpretation:

Fa Jin is to control the muscles by contraction, release the Jin was to exert the strength in the muscles. Using the feet as foundation by releasing the Jin in the legs to stand firm on the ground. Using the hips to manipulate the movements of the body, the execution of Jin was done by the fingers. Other than that, one should control the breathing with concentration and exhale to assist the Jin to be released.

 

 

PS...

Thank you for not giving up on me. I am glad to share all these good stuff with you about Tai Ji. I like you, Stigweard.....

Edited August 23, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Stigweard]

Fajin theory or 发劲理论 states 蓄劲如开弓，发劲如放箭，其根在于脚，发于腿，主宰于腰，行于手指" 的行径。此外，还应敛气凝神、以呼气助发劲

 

Fa Jin is like pulling a bow. Fa Jin is like shooting an arrow. Its root is on the feet, release it from the legs, driven by the waist, executed from the fingers as a procedure. Outside of that, one must control the breathing and concentrate, and with exhalation in assisting to Fa Jin.

 

Interpretation:

Fa Jin is to control the muscles by contraction, release the Jin was to exert the strength in the muscles. Using the feet as foundation by releasing the Jin in the legs to stand firm on the ground. Using the hips to manipulate the movements of the body, the execution of Jin was done by the fingers. Other than that, one should control the breathing with concentration and exhale to assist the Jin to be released.

 

 

PS...

Thank you for not giving up on me. I am glad to share all these good stuff with you about Tai Ji. I like you, Stigweard.....

Good o

 

Now that is the basis, or point of reference, of my critique. So if you go back and read what I have said it might make more sense to you

 

[ChiDragon]

Stigweard...

We have found the missing link...

[LaoZiDao]

This demo shows the body coordination with the mind starting with the famous Tai Ji movement the "Four Corners".

 

 

Came across your old video here ChiDragon.

 

I can see you have practiced a lot, but there is no substance, no power.

 

Refilling yuanjing with Neidan methods also gives this power you are lacking

[ChiDragon]

That is nothing new. I heard that before.

I am glad that you were able to tell that I had been practiced a lot. At least that is a plus.......................

How long have you been practiced Tai Ji.....???