Demonstration of emitting qi

[oat1239]

Emitting qi for healing purposes is not exclusively a Taoist practice, but since it is related I thought this video might be appropriate in this forum. If this is not appropriate for this forum, please feel free to move it.

 

This is a demo of Dr Jiang Feng from China doing a demonstration of emitting qi from one of his fingers during an interview about his healing methods. Unfortunately the interview is in Mandarin but for those who can understand Mandarin you may find the whole video of Dr. Jiang's comments about his healing methods interesting, and those who can't speak mandarin will probably just want to watch the demo of the burning a hole in a sheet of paper by emitting qi from his finger, as the rest is just talking.

 

The video is a bit long, so to go right to the part in the video where Dr. Jiang Feng does the qi emission demonstration of burning a hole through a sheet of paper, start watching the video at the 4:10 mark. It actually looks much like a laser was used to burn a hole in the paper and I am certain some people will be inclined to insist that this is fake and a laser was actually used to burn the hole in the sheet of paper, but comments I have seen from people who have visited Dr. Jiang Feng would seem to support that he really does have some extraordinary abilities with qi. Dr Jiang Feng calls his qigong style yijinjing qigong, but from what little I have seen it appears different than what you may have seen shaolin monks practicing, although it is supposed to be from the same source. Technically not a taoist practice, but some say the 8 pieces brocade was derived from the original yijinjing qigong method.

 

Here's the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND5r3FxkZM8

 

This link should take you right to the 4:10 mark in the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND5r3FxkZM8&feature=player_detailpage#t=249s

Edited August 21, 2011 by oat1239

[doc benway]

I don't buy it, not even a little....

But I'll admit I'm a skeptic.

[zerostao]

i know right. it really doesnt look right.

BUT then again, how would i know what it is supposed to look like?

 

edit>do any of you guys do candle training?

Edited August 21, 2011 by zerostao

[dawei]

http://news.ancientayurved.org/2011/02/exploring-complementary-therapies-that-can-help-with-cancer/

 

They have obviously not investigated the right qigong masters. My Shaolin Yijinjing master (Master Jiang Feng) can burn paper with his qi, and to this day I still carry a scar at my solar plexus – the result of a burn caused by the qi emitted like a laser-beam from his finger, which was part of my initiation into the lineage (more about that in future).

 

It is too bad that the sceptics do not do a thorough investigation before making their pronouncements, and in doing so confuse a lot of people who can be helped by qigong and TCM (and possibly other methods too).

 

another: http://shaolinyijinjingmsia.blogspot.com/2009_09_01_archive.html

 

I have found this is a topic not worth discussing here due to the above reasons...

Edited August 21, 2011 by dawei

[zerostao]

http://news.ancientayurved.org/2011/02/exploring-complementary-therapies-that-can-help-with-cancer/

 

 

 

another: http://shaolinyijinjingmsia.blogspot.com/2009_09_01_archive.html

 

I have found this is a topic not worth discussing here due to the above reasons...

interesting

[lifeforce]

I always thought Yijinjing was a method used to heal and strengthen the body, hence it's name, the Muscle/Tendon Changing Classic.

[Owledge]

I don't buy it, not even a little....

But I'll admit I'm a skeptic.

What is the point in assuming the identity of "sceptic", when scepticism is just a natural part of people's psyche? When you emphazise this trait by using it as your identity, it becomes at the same time a hint that you practice it to an unbalanced degree.

Or do you identify with the 'official movement' called scepticism? Because those people tend to practice not scepticism, but disbelief.

[ChiDragon]

i know right. it really doesnt look right.

BUT then again, how would i know what it is supposed to look like?

 

edit>do any of you guys do candle training?

 

By candle training, do you mean by blow out the candle with your fist....???

Did you know it was more difficult to blow it out with your palm....???

[oat1239]

I always thought Yijinjing was a method used to heal and strengthen the body, hence it's name, the Muscle/Tendon Changing Classic.

The name is literally that, but some say that the original yijinjing system was actually a very deep and profound system with enlightenment at its highest goal. What we see modern day shaolin monks publically demonstrating seems more like a basic form of qigong or dao yin, but Dr. Jiang Feng seems to be practicing something that goes much beyond just a basic health and strengthening qigong. This would seem to lend support to the idea that the original system may have been much more profound than what is commonly thought these days.

[doc benway]

What is the point in assuming the identity of "sceptic", when scepticism is just a natural part of people's psyche? When you emphazise this trait by using it as your identity, it becomes at the same time a hint that you practice it to an unbalanced degree.

Or do you identify with the 'official movement' called scepticism? Because those people tend to practice not scepticism, but disbelief.

Sceptic is not my identity, nor do I identify with any such movement.

Finally, I don't practice it.

 

What I meant to communicate is that based on my prior conditioning and my current understanding, I tend not to accept or believe things very readily that are not in some way observable, credible, or consistent with my personal experience. My background is in Western science followed by about 10 years of study and training in Daoist arts. I try to have a very open mind but I try not to be gullible. I don't like to "believe" things or "disbelieve" things when I can avoid it. I prefer to know or simply not know rather than to believe.

 

I was using sceptic more as a descriptive term of my tendency, nothing more. Thanks for calling me on that unskillful statement.

I'm not advocating this position for anyone else, just stating what exists for me.

 

This demonstration just feels like a phony to me. If someone were able to so readily burn paper with their Qi in what looks like a scientific setting, we would be seeing much broader evidence of this - peer reviewed papers, more organized demonstrations, and so on. This would make these folks rich and famous if it were true. You can talk around that but it's just the way I see it.

[on the path]

I don't buy it either, watch carefully the so called master's finger when he starts the small burn, it is at a different angle. As the burn ignites he moves his finger to point at the burn! I bet that hidden behind the black box is a small surgical laser which is very controllable. Note also the positioning of where the paper is placed to burn, very near a desk. It is a fake there are a lot of these fakes coming out of China at the moment. Fact; one cannot concentrate the qi to a fine point over even a small distance, it will naturally want to form a ball or cone shape in the atmosphere. His body tells me he is not extending his qi.

[Owledge]

Also a clue maybe: People got the paper, they moved, the camera moved, but before the test started, there was a cut in the filming.

[oat1239]

In this world, as surely as night follows day, yang will be counteracted by yin.

Edited August 21, 2011 by oat1239

[oat1239]

This would make these folks rich and famous if it were true.

 

Some people are not at all concerned with wealth and fame. In fact some would say that to be able to cultivate oneself to a high level one first has to do away with all such notions and desires and bring the heart and mind to a deeply calm and balanced state. Only then can true cultivation begin. Without this foundation one likely won't ever progress much beyond the level of basic health maintenance and enhancement and aerobic exercise and relaxing. Not that such things are bad. Just different potential in my opinion.

[doc benway]

Some people are not at all concerned with wealth and fame. In fact some would say that to be able to cultivate oneself to a high level one first has to do away with all such notions and desires and bring the heart and mind to a deeply calm and balanced state. Only then can true cultivation begin. Without this foundation one likely won't ever progress much beyond the level of basic health maintenance and enhancement and aerobic exercise and relaxing. Not that such things are bad. Just different potential in my opinion.

I get it about wealth and fame not being #1. It's how I've lived my life and taught my kids to do the same.

And I agree that this is the attitude necessary to achieve a very high level of personal cultivation.

 

And once that is achieved, do you think those folks who are so highly cultivated that they forego all concerns with wealth and fame are making youtube videos showing how they can burn a hole in paper with their Qi projection?

 

The thing that bugs me is this sort of fantasy does not encourage people to take their cultivation seriously. It's exploitation and foolishness. It's what causes many people to scoff at some of these concepts and not take them seriously. Much better to meditate or study the Classics than search the web for videos of Qi projection, that's all I'm trying to say.

[oat1239]

And once that is achieved, do you think those folks who are so highly cultivated that they forego all concerns with wealth and fame are making youtube videos showing how they can burn a hole in paper with their Qi projection?

 

Actually I beleive the video was made by some journalists that were interviewing him. What I see in this video is someone demonstrating an ability they say they have to people who were asking specific questions about what he does and how he does it. A lot of people do not believe in qi. Since qi can't be seen (at least not normally) you can't demonstrate qi itself on a video. If you have the ability and you want to demonstrate something for a video, one option would be to show an unusual effect of emitting qi that can be seen on a video. I see no definite reason to assume that this is all just a plan to make money and seek fame.

 

The thing that bugs me is this sort of fantasy does not encourage people to take their cultivation seriously. It's exploitation and foolishness. It's what causes many people to scoff at some of these concepts and not take them seriously. Much better to meditate or study the Classics than search the web for videos of Qi projection, that's all I'm trying to say.

 

Well, I don't follow you. If you don't like to watch such videos, you don't have to watch them. I am also unclear how you came to the definite conclusion that this is "fantasy". A skeptic could say that they have their doubts since it is only a video, and they would need to see this in person under much more controlled conditions or whatever if they were to be convinced, and leave it at that. A person operating from strong belief however does not care if they have any real evidence or proof that something is really false or not, they believe very strongly that something is not possible and pronounce anything as fake or fantasy that doesn't fit in with this strong belief that they hold.

 

Other than maybe peaking the curiosity of some people to do some more research into this sort of thing and maybe inspiring some to start learning qigong or meditation so they can try it themself, I don't think there will really be much impact on people beyond that. If someone is really interested in personal cultivation they will likely continue to do so regardless of a video that demonstrates some unusual qigong ability or not. The worst I can imagine is a person might be inspired to keep at their practice or to even practice more diligently, heaven forbid.

 

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. People are free to believe what they want. I posted this because I personally find it interesting and thought some other people might as well. My own personal experience in this regard causes me to be open to the possibilty of such things and I so I find them interesting. I am however aware that there a lots of fake videos on youtube, so I do take that into account, as I'm sure most people do. Since I know something about Dr. Jiang Feng and his teacher, I am inclined to think that he would not have any interest in posting a fake video on youtube. I am more inclined to think he just wanted to provide some information and show people what is possible. That is just my own opinion.

Edited August 22, 2011 by oat1239

[Owledge]

[doc benway]

It could be called naive

 

Meditate on that.

Yes, perhaps I am naive.

And perhaps the one who believes the Chinese youtube video of the Qi laser is not!

 

Nevertheless, I could be completely mistaken... it wouldn't be the first time, nor the last. I like to maintain what I consider to be a healthy balance of openness and scepticism. I don't ask you or anyone else to agree with me or adopt my approach - it's mine alone and it works reasonably well for me.

 

As far as meditation, I don't really meditate on concepts or ideas. My approach is different than that.

[doc benway]

I don't follow you.

The ideas people tend to get from videos like this are not conducive to a serious focus on personal cultivation. Cultivating Qi is a much more mundane process that does not benefit from fanciful ideas like projecting Qi and burning holes in paper. All of that may, in fact, be possible. I never stated that is is not. However, the way to explore that is to begin practicing cultivation and see what comes of it. Tooling around on the internet for video demonstrations is counter-productive to Qi cultivation. This is only my personal opinion and is based in my own experience with cultivation.

 

 

A person operating from strong belief however does not care if they have any real evidence or proof that something is really false or not, they believe very strongly that something is not possible and pronounce anything as fake or fantasy that doesn't fit in with this strong belief that they hold.

That is all competely true.

And recognizing a fake does not mean that someone has a strong belief necessarily, it simply means that the demonstration is not convincing. What is lacking here is any real evidence or proof. It's just a single youtube video that looks to me like a phony.

[oat1239]

The ideas people tend to get from videos like this are not conducive to a serious focus on personal cultivation. Cultivating Qi is a much more mundane process that does not benefit from fanciful ideas like projecting Qi and burning holes in paper. All of that may, in fact, be possible. I never stated that is is not. However, the way to explore that is to begin practicing cultivation and see what comes of it. Tooling around on the internet for video demonstrations is counter-productive to Qi cultivation. This is only my personal opinion and is based in my own experience with cultivation.

 

That is all competely true.

And recognizing a fake does not mean that someone has a strong belief necessarily, it simply means that the demonstration is not convincing. What is lacking here is any real evidence or proof. It's just a single youtube video that looks to me like a phony.

 

I have already addressed all this in my previous reply. The video was not presented as proof of anything. You are quite welcome to draw any conclusions you like. So is everyone else. As I have mentioned I personally think there is reason enough to not dismiss this so quickly as fake, so I personally find this interesting. That is really all there is to it. If people are easily distracted by such things then they don't have to watch the video.

Edited August 22, 2011 by oat1239

[oat1239]

Fact; one cannot concentrate the qi to a fine point over even a small distance, it will naturally want to form a ball or cone shape in the atmosphere. His body tells me he is not extending his qi.

 

Actually qigong therapists train to emit qi in different ways using different hand and finger positions. Some hand positions are for emitting more of a wide field and some hand positions such as extending a single finger or forming the sword fingers are for focusing qi into a more concentrated stream. These are common training methods for qigong therapy healers.

[on the path]

Actually qigong therapists train to emit qi in different ways using different hand and finger positions. Some hand positions are for emitting more of a wide field and some hand positions such as extending a single finger or forming the sword fingers are for focusing qi into a more concentrated stream. These are common training methods for qigong therapy healers.

 

 

 

Hi oat1239,

 

A lot of Daoist sects use the 'sword' fingers for extending the qi or fa, there appears to be many hand forms to extend qi or fa. From my own practices, qi or fa cannot be extended to a small point from that distance shown in the video, only from a small distance away from the object or person. This master in the video does not show any sign of the effort it takes to extend the qi powerfully. Let me put it scientifically; when a person has developed their qi over many years of cultivation 30+ at least, their electricity/ volts in their body is much higher and stronger than normal. When one extends this energy powerfully, it takes an enormous amount of effort to do this. The person will be exhausted afterwards, for every living cell in their body will be excited and the energy will be released. A very strong heart is needed which is developed over the many years of practice. The one person who I have seen who I think is not a fake is the Chang qi gong master who demonstrates burning the paper, you will notice that he has to put his hand very near the paper not from a distance, the burn is wide even though his hand is so near, which goes back to my original point of qi extends in a cone shape not in a tiny line like a laser.

In China and Chinese thinking, if you can do these sort of things means your status in the community is much higher than anyone else. Since the relaxation of religion by the communist gov. People have appeared by magic out of the woodwork and people are really excited by this sort of thing. To the Chinese a higher status is far better than lots of money, although far more business comes if your well respected and looked up to.

[oat1239]

Hi oat1239,

 

A lot of Daoist sects use the 'sword' fingers for extending the qi or fa, there appears to be many hand forms to extend qi or fa. From my own practices, qi or fa cannot be extended to a small point from that distance shown in the video, only from a small distance away from the object or person. This master in the video does not show any sign of the effort it takes to extend the qi powerfully. Let me put it scientifically; when a person has developed their qi over many years of cultivation 30+ at least, their electricity/ volts in their body is much higher and stronger than normal. When one extends this energy powerfully, it takes an enormous amount of effort to do this. The person will be exhausted afterwards, for every living cell in their body will be excited and the energy will be released. A very strong heart is needed which is developed over the many years of practice. The one person who I have seen who I think is not a fake is the Chang qi gong master who demonstrates burning the paper, you will notice that he has to put his hand very near the paper not from a distance, the burn is wide even though his hand is so near, which goes back to my original point of qi extends in a cone shape not in a tiny line like a laser.

In China and Chinese thinking, if you can do these sort of things means your status in the community is much higher than anyone else. Since the relaxation of religion by the communist gov. People have appeared by magic out of the woodwork and people are really excited by this sort of thing. To the Chinese a higher status is far better than lots of money, although far more business comes if your well respected and looked up to.

 

Not all qigong methods are the same. I have outlined some of the different methods in the thread on qi. In some external styles of qigong there is more emphasis on using a lot of force and effort to direct qi and in some other styles it is mainly about using mind focus to direct qi. I have reviewed various information about Dr. Jiang Feng over the last couple of years and he really seems to have some exceptional abilities with qi and qi healing. He has been involved with visiting other qigong healing clinics in other countries such as Malaysia and Indonesia and teaching there and seems to be highly respected. He has also done healing consultations for some notable people such as the queen of Malaysia and others.

 

I can point a finger at the palm of my other hand a few feet away and feel a tingling qi sensation on the palm of my hand fairly quickly. This is not a big deal. How strong I feel it depends on how energetic I am feeling on any given day. As soon as I move my pointing finger away the tingling qi sensation in my palm stops. It requires no effort at all. I just hold the idea of sending qi from my finger tip. I can't burn a hole in a sheet of paper however. There are various practices that qigong healers use to train qi emission so they can eventually learn to emit qi really strongly in various different ways at a distance. It is very specialized qi training. These methods mainly involve using the mind instead of forceful effort. Dr. Jiang's method actually seems somewhat more forceful than other qigong healers I have seen. It really depends on how a person trains. Different practices can produce different types of results. Because I have personally experienced how strongly a qigong healer can emit qi at a distance of a few feet it is not too much more of a major stretch for me to allow for the possibility that if someone knows how to focus that strong emission of qi into a narrow stream it could well be quite intense.

 

For anyone who is interested, here are some more videos of Dr. Jiang Feng and associates doing qigong healing and qi emission.

 

This is a video of a colleague of Dr. Jiang Feng doing a qigong healing method at a qigong healing teaching seminar which employs a method that seems to be used to remove stagnant blood and toxins from the patient's body. Don't watch if you are squeemish.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVjZt4wUKKk

 

 

The following video was recorded by some people who visited Dr. Jiang Feng a few years ago.

 

Emitting qi to a point on the body:

 

 

Looks painful!

Edited August 22, 2011 by oat1239

[oat1239]

double post.

Edited August 22, 2011 by oat1239

[on the path]

Not all qigong methods are the same. I have outlined some of the different methods in the thread on qi. In some external styles of qigong there is more emphasis on using a lot of force and effort to direct qi and in some other styles it is mainly about using mind focus to direct qi. I have reviewed various information about Dr. Jiang Feng over the last couple of years and he really seems to have some exceptional abilities with qi and qi healing. He has been involved with visiting other qigong healing clinics in other countries such as Malaysia and Indonesia and teaching there and seems to be highly respected. He has also done healing consultations for some notable people such as the queen of Malaysia and others.

 

I can point a finger at the palm of my other hand a few feet away and feel a tingling qi sensation on the palm of my hand fairly quickly. This is not a big deal. How strong I feel it depends on how energetic I am feeling on any given day. As soon as I move my pointing finger away the tingling qi sensation in my palm stops. It requires no effort at all. I just hold the idea of sending qi from my finger tip. I can't burn a hole in a sheet of paper however. There are various practices that qigong healers use to train qi emission so they can eventually learn to emit qi really strongly in various different ways at a distance. It is very specialized qi training. These methods mainly involve using the mind instead of forceful effort. Dr. Jiang's method actually seems somewhat more forceful than other qigong healers I have seen. It really depends on how a person trains. Different practices can produce different types of results. Because I have personally experienced how strongly a qigong healer can emit qi at a distance of a few feet it is not too much more of a major stretch for me to allow for the possibility that if someone knows how to focus that strong emission of qi into a narrow stream it could well be quite intense.

 

For anyone who is interested, here are some more videos of Dr. Jiang Feng and associates doing qigong healing and qi emission.

 

This is a video of a colleague of Dr. Jiang Feng doing a qigong healing method at a qigong healing teaching seminar which employs a method that seems to be used to remove stagnant blood and toxins from the patient's body. Don't watch if you are squeemish.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=JVjZt4wUKKk

 

 

The following video was recorded by some people who visited Dr. Jiang Feng a few years ago.

 

Emitting qi to a point on the body:

 

 

Looks painful!

 

Why bother starting a post if you appear to know all the answers?? No reply will change your point of view it would seem? The mind is a most powerful thing it can very easily fool you!

Edited August 22, 2011 by on the path