Living Life is a totally misconstrued taoist concept

[tulku]

Well, they were usualy doing something useful, like non-stop deep meditation in order to enhance their insight in what life's all about or developing special abilities - instead of, let's say, philosophizing on a forum.

 

Personally I love the (scientific) reincarnation point of view: you kinda need to have experienced everything (good or bad), made every mistake and such. If it's your time to sit in a cave, meditate and get more insight the circumstances will be created for you.

 

If you feel inspired to push away a beautiful girl, abstain from all pleasure in life and it really makes you feel good, that's probably what you need to be doing. If you do not feel happy and fulfilled it's probably a mistake you have to make and you'll realize one day, in this life or the next.

 

how do you know i am not doing non-stop deep meditation when i am not posting on the net?

 

since when did communicating on the net become a luxury?

 

there s no need to meditate in a cave.. just meditate non-stop for at least 6 hours everyday and one will get just as much insights as meditating in a cave

 

to tell you the truth, no woman, no matter how beautiful or well-endowed or personable she is, has really made me happy and fulfilled.. i don't fell any pleasure in being with a woman..

 

all these marriage, kids, career are making me feel really depressed and unfulfilled

 

the only thing that can make me feel happy and fulfilled right now is if i gain enlightenment.. and i am going to focus on nothing but enlightenment for the rest of my life

[konchog uma]

Big balls are very popular down under

 

hahha they are illegal in some states of the USofA

 

my girlfriend tells me anyway... for being distracting to drivers and offensive to churchladies

[konchog uma]

why cut off your willy when you can cut off your mind?

 

cause my scissors aren't that sharp!!

[tulku]

[konchog uma]

 

Should I listen to the city people who have not even attained an iota of enlightenment or the monks who are already enlightened?

 

 

here's a better question. why should we listen to your advice about how to attain inner peace when you obviously don't have much of it?

 

why should we care what you have to say since your version of "enlightenment" is to look down on us from your glass castle and tell us how much better than us you are? enlightened masters aren't really known for acting like you.

 

do you think that any of us lowly practioners even want what you have? i personally don't. if we wanted to be condescending ignorant jerks we would have joined www.condescendingignorantjerks.com, where i'm sure we could find all kinds of guidance on our paths. but we are looking to further our spiritual cultivation. if you were spiritually cultivated, it would stand to reason that you would recognize spiritual cultivation in others, and spare us your derogatory comments like the one above. ???? i don't even know why i am trying to engage you logically.

 

you may think that you are an ascended god being who is capable of judging others harshly because you know a few big words, but i think that there is only one in this world who can judge, and its judgement is always unconditional love. since your commentary is notably short on that, i don't actually look to you for spiritual guidance in the first place.

 

again, i don't know why i'm even wasting my time typing this.. DOH! you got me tulku now you can bask in some more attention that you don't deserve sheesh

[C T]

Well, its a normal human tendency when they see a cat stuck in a tree to think they know the best way to help it descend. But sometimes in our ignorance we forget that the cat is exactly where it wants to be, and no amount of coaxing or advice will help until the cat itself decides its got enough and makes the next transition... it may climb down if it chooses to, or it will jump. Some cats can jump from very high altitudes and land pretty intact on their feet... maybe Tulku is one cool cat, and he will land on his feet too. I think he will make much progress, and we should let him find his own answers without meddling too much. Not much point if all the good advice we think we are giving end up frustrating ourselves, and then, it may end up that we begin to doubt our own words. That will be quite tragic.

[FixXxer1846]

just meditate non-stop for at least 6 hours everyday and one will get just as much insights as meditating in a cave

Insight into what? How depressed you are?

 

If you feel that's what you gotta do, do it. My guess is that one day you'll find out that you are mistaken. Although you had to make that mistake.

 

to tell you the truth, no woman, no matter how beautiful or well-endowed or personable she is, has really made me happy and fulfilled.. i don't fell any pleasure in being with a woman..

 

all these marriage, kids, career are making me feel really depressed and unfulfilled

 

the only thing that can make me feel happy and fulfilled right now is if i gain enlightenment.. and i am going to focus on nothing but enlightenment for the rest of my life

Believe me that a woman (and a ton of money to stuff you want) can make you happy, as long as there is love. They just don't wanna be with someone who is heavily depressed. But maybe a loving relationship is not part of the lessons you have to learn in this life.

 

Buddhism may fit you better than Taoism. It has a rather negative view on life. They see enlightenment as an escape of what they basically see as hell. And let's be honest, for many people life is indeed hell. Many taoists on the other hand enjoy sex and good food. They are after cultivating their health, spirit, relationships - they are curious about the world they live in. Bit more positive than the Tibetants. Maybe it was the weather. It's rather cold 5,000 meters and up... The scenery is nice though.

Edited September 6, 2011 by FixXxer1845

[Aaron]

It is funny. The city people see me as being dissatisfied with life yet the monks see me as being enlightened enough to want to jump out of cycle of rebirth and death.

 

Should I listen to the city people who have not even attained an iota of enlightenment or the monks who are already enlightened?

 

How is staying away from women, good food and other luxuries of life considered to be a punishment?

 

How is living a life free of addictions a life of punishment?

 

Most people are addicted to women,or men, good food, shopping, clubbing, drinking and other types of useless fun which do nothing for enlightenment.

 

Yet for the monks who have broken free of these addictions, if you ask them to enjoy themselves with women, good food, shopping, clubbing, drinking and other types of useless fun activities, it is like a suffering for them.

 

Because their mind is already stable and to drag their minds into a state of instability is like dragging them into hell.

 

What I am doing is the most natural thing in the universe. It is not something which the monks in the last few thousand years have not already done.

 

Whether I get any hardships or enlightenment in the end is not something for a petty human like you to decide.

 

Do you really think that you are the Creator the Universe who can decide my fate just by saying so?

 

Don't delude yourself. A mere petty human who can't even determine his own fate can never judge a being like me.

 

Hello Tulku,

 

Please do not speak to me of addiction, unless you know what you talk about. I was an alcoholic and now I am sober. I smoked cigarettes for years and now don't smoke. I was addicted to sex and now I am not. I know about desire more than you can ever imagine. I indulged my senses and saw the error in that. I have not given up these things, I just have no desire for them. I go to bars and other places that have bars girls, guys, and smokes, and I have no desire to indulge. When one understands that they have no control over these things and they are willing to give up trying to control them, then they can touch something greater than themselves, that is what gives you freedom from these addictions. Most people, despite what you are led to believe, do not suffer from addictions, rather they suffer from the normal desires that life offers. You are viewing things too black and white, good and bad, rather than viewing these actions for what they are.

 

When someone tells you, don't have sex because it is a sin or bad, then that is the person you need not listen too. When someone tells you, don't drink alcohol because it is a sin or bad, then that is the person that has idea what drinking is. When someone tells you that pleasure is sinful, then that is a person that hates himself, for life in its essence is pleasure and pain, and the middle path is not depriving oneself of one or the other, but rather understanding the grace of moderation.

 

If a monk chooses to be celibate, it is often not because sex is bad or sinful, it is because he has taken a vow required by his order. Ironically, if you choose to become a monk, you need to become comfortable with others monks asking if you want to have sex with them, because it does happen, more than you think. You can believe what you want, but please be kind enough when you do join a monastery to not be indignant or judgmental of these monks, their hearts are in the right place. Don't be a snitch either, because the head monk will most likely admonish you for it and if you continue send you packing.

 

There are ways that the world works. As you grow older you will understand this and all these ideas you have will fade away like fog under the morning sun. I just hope when the fog clears you will be wise enough to see, that even if the landscape has been burnt and scarred, there is still beauty present, it is only waiting for you to see it.

 

Two cents from the enlightened. Look within and not without, that is where you will find what you are searching for.

 

Aaron

Edited September 6, 2011 by Twinner

[C T]

 

Buddhism may fit you better than Taoism. It has a rather negative view on life. They see enlightenment as an escape of what they basically see as hell. And let's be honest, for many people life is indeed hell. Many taoists on the other hand enjoy sex and good food. They are after cultivating their health, spirit, relationships - they are curious about the world they live in. Bit more positive than the Tibetants. Maybe it was the weather. It's rather cold 5,000 meters and up... The scenery is nice though.

That's a pretty negative view in itself, dont you think?

 

Not only is your understanding of it negative, its completely misconstrued. Enlightenment is not some form of escapism. As my friend VJ likes to say, you need to study more so that you are able to make correct assessments about what Buddhism is, otherwise, if ever you find yourself at a sit down over dinner with friends and the conversation turns to Buddhism, you might just end up being looked at with funny eyes.

[konchog uma]

That's a pretty negative view in itself, dont you think?

 

Not only is your understanding of it negative, its completely misconstrued. Enlightenment is not some form of escapism. As my friend VJ likes to say, you need to study more so that you are able to make correct assessments about what Buddhism is, otherwise, if ever you find yourself at a sit down over dinner with friends and the conversation turns to Buddhism, you might just end up being looked at with funny eyes.

 

haha quite so

[tulku]

Hello Tulku,

 

Please do not speak to me of addiction, unless you know what you talk about. I was an alcoholic and now I am sober. I smoked cigarettes for years and now don't smoke. I was addicted to sex and now I am not. I know about desire more than you can ever imagine. I indulged my senses and saw the error in that. I have not given up these things, I just have no desire for them. I go to bars and other places that have bars girls, guys, and smokes, and I have no desire to indulge. When one understands that they have no control over these things and they are willing to give up trying to control them, then they can touch something greater than themselves, that is what gives you freedom from these addictions. Most people, despite what you are led to believe, do not suffer from addictions, rather they suffer from the normal desires that life offers. You are viewing things too black and white, good and bad, rather than viewing these actions for what they are.

 

When someone tells you, don't have sex because it is a sin or bad, then that is the person you need not listen too. When someone tells you, don't drink alcohol because it is a sin or bad, then that is the person that has idea what drinking is. When someone tells you that pleasure is sinful, then that is a person that hates himself, for life in its essence is pleasure and pain, and the middle path is not depriving oneself of one or the other, but rather understanding the grace of moderation.

 

If a monk chooses to be celibate, it is often not because sex is bad or sinful, it is because he has taken a vow required by his order. Ironically, if you choose to become a monk, you need to become comfortable with others monks asking if you want to have sex with them, because it does happen, more than you think. You can believe what you want, but please be kind enough when you do join a monastery to not be indignant or judgmental of these monks, their hearts are in the right place. Don't be snitch either, because the head monk will most likely admonish you for it and if you continue send you packing.

 

There are ways that the world works. As you grow older you will understand this and all these ideas you have will fade away like fog under the morning sun. I just hope when the fog clears you will be wise enough to see, that even if the landscape has been burnt and scarred, there is still beauty present, it is only waiting for you to see it.

 

Two cents from the enlightened. Look within and not without, that is where you will find what you are searching for.

 

Aaron

 

OMG.. monks asking you for sex.. what have you been sniffing man? Are you sure you are still not off drugs yet?

 

Who says life is only about pleasure or pain? Who determines life is only about pleasure or pain? You?

 

Do you really think that life is only about pleasures and pain just because you have experienced only the pleasures and pain of life and nothing ekse?

 

Do you think that just because a few monks go crazy so all monks are crazy?

 

Don't be childish.

 

You said that you have given up sex, alcohol, cigarettes yet you are still going to bars and clubs which promote the life of sex, alcohol and cigarettes.

 

It is not that one doesn't have control over these addictions and desires.

 

It is that YOU doesn't have control over these addictions and desires.

 

DO you know how people get addicted to these desires? It is because desires have emotional, mental and spiritual energies and when people let these energies hijack their consciousness, that is how addictions are formed.

 

If you truly have control over your addictions, you wouldn't even think about going to bars, clubs and these type of places where the energies of sex, alcohol and smoking are so prevalent that even a monk will fall prey to them if this monk is chained up 24 hours for a year straight in these type of places.

 

Tis all about energies, my friend and you have so aptly demonstrated that you still do not have the consciousness to reject the energies of these desires because you are too weak-willed.

 

Why else would you still waste your time in bars and clubs if you have totally rejected the energies of sex, alcohol and cigarettes? It is because these energies are still subconsciously calling you back into those haunts!

 

A monk choose to be celibate because he is training his consciousness to reject the energies of desires. Granted, some monks will fail in their training because no one is perfect.

 

This is why monks live in monasteries because their consciousness are at their most well-defended in holy places where there is a high level of consciousness.

 

Otherwise, monks would have began their training in bars, clubs and other night-time haunts a long time ago.

 

As I said, it is not that people have no control over their desires. It is that your consciousness is too weak to control and resist your desires.

 

I really advise you to stay from bars and clubs for the rest of your life and trust me, I was once like you.

 

One more thing, aaron, please do not say you are enlightened when you can't even resist the basic temptations of sex, alcohol and cigarettes.

 

You are not fit to call yourself enlightened.

Edited September 6, 2011 by tulku

[Stigweard]

Yes it is true we should, to an appropriate degree, extricate ourselves from the sources of social pollution. It is also true that conventional living is littered with a myriad sources of pollutants that unnecessarily stir up the mind. With the mind unsettled true communion with spirit is severed and one's achievement is destroyed.

 

There is a point where even renunciation is just yet another attachment.

 

If you are arguing for renunciation, you are attached to it.

 

If you feel you need to promote it, you are attached to it.

 

If you are arguing against renunciation, you are attached to it.

 

If you renounced the concept of renunciation, what do you have left?

 

[FixXxer1846]

@ CowTao:

 

Not only is your understanding of it negative, its completely misconstrued. Enlightenment is not some form of escapism. As my friend VJ likes to say, you need to study more so that you are able to make correct assessments about what Buddhism is....

I agree with you that enlightenment is not supposed to be escapism. But as far as I remember Buddhist see Earthly life as suffering, certainly much more than Taoists. They are more focused on reaching enlightenment and less on earthly matters.

 

Anyway, that's an interpretation I heard a couple of times and didn't really disagree with it. Had the Tibetan book of the dead lying around and its kinda the impression I got. Don't really care either about Buddhism anymore though, as I did as a kid. The Dalai Lama priests were running the country like a brutal dictatorship. When Tibet was overrun by the Chinese the ordinary peasants had little interest in fighting the commies. CIA-trained (through the American Society for a Free Asia and other fronts) ruling class monks couldn't take back the country on their own. Mao's China was terrible, but it was basically the same as the Dalai Lama, except they modernized the country.

 

It's one the things I still want to go back to and study, but Buddhism and the Dalai Lama.... Just another propped-up anti-communist/socialist cult supported by elements in Western establishminsts, both liberal and conservative in this case.... meaning State, CIA, Pentagon and a ton of private interests. Few heard about Taoism and that basically because it doesn't enjoy this widespread support by Western interests.

 

I don't care much about all the intricacies of Taosim either, but I like the curious, adventurous spirit. Possibly the only religion/philosophy without a totally corrupted high authority... but like I said, need to study deeper (but already studied deeper than 99,99% of the people out there).

 

if ever you find yourself at a sit down over dinner with friends and the conversation turns to Buddhism, you might just end up being looked at with funny eyes.

 

That's probably true. When I walk into a meeting of the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia and tell them they have a rather negative view on women and life they probably also look at me with funny eyes also. Eye of the beholder. Hehe. Ah, just kidding this case. Couldn't resist. I prefer Buddhist monks anyday of the week over basically any other religious representive.

Edited September 6, 2011 by FixXxer1845

[tulku]

That's a pretty negative view in itself, dont you think?

 

Not only is your understanding of it negative, its completely misconstrued. Enlightenment is not some form of escapism. As my friend VJ likes to say, you need to study more so that you are able to make correct assessments about what Buddhism is, otherwise, if ever you find yourself at a sit down over dinner with friends and the conversation turns to Buddhism, you might just end up being looked at with funny eyes.

 

How is enlightenment escapism?

 

How is trying to evolve to a higher state of consciousness escapism?

 

Are you trying to tell me there are no higher forms of beings out there in the universe whose consciousness is so high that they would not fall into the addictions of sex, women, food, fun and anything else that indulge the senses?

 

Is our whole damn existence only about sex, women, food, fun and indulgence of the senses?

 

Are the Tibetan and other monks escapist? Are the mountain Taoist sages escapist?

 

If so, then you know what, I do pride myself in being a escapist. What's the fricking karmic penalty for being a escapist like the monks?

[tulku]

Yes it is true we should, to an appropriate degree, extricate ourselves from the sources of social pollution. It is also true that conventional living is littered with a myriad sources of pollutants that unnecessarily stir up the mind. With the mind unsettled true communion with spirit is severed and one's achievement is destroyed.

 

There is a point where even renunciation is just yet another attachment.

 

If you are arguing for renunciation, you are attached to it.

 

If you feel you need to promote it, you are attached to it.

 

If you are arguing against renunciation, you are attached to it.

 

If you renounced the concept of renunciation, what do you have left?

 

 

There is a point where even city married life is just yet another attachment.

 

If you are arguing for city married life, you are attached to it.

 

If you feel you need to promote it, you are attached to it.

 

If you are arguing against city married life, you are attached to it.

 

If you renounced the concept of city married life, what do you have left?

 

Edited September 6, 2011 by tulku

[konchog uma]

Mao's China was terrible, but it was basically the same as the Dalai Lama, except they modernized the country.

 

oh yeah sure with just a feewwwww minor exceptions here and there

 

like the difference between burning down monasteries and building them for example hahahaha

 

read chinese propeganda much? :D

Edited September 6, 2011 by anamatva

[konchog uma]

There is a point where even city married life is just yet another attachment.

 

If you are arguing for city married life, you are attached to it.

 

If you feel you need to promote it, you are attached to it.

 

If you are arguing against city married life, you are attached to it.

 

If you renounced the concept of city married life, what do you have left?

 

 

i wish i could minus one a post! where is the little red button? hahaha

 

and where are the bull testicles?? that was more interesting!! :D lets hijack this thread again

 

i dont think our previous efforts were sufficient enough

[tulku]

Insight into what? How depressed you are?

 

If you feel that's what you gotta do, do it. My guess is that one day you'll find out that you are mistaken. Although you had to make that mistake.

 

 

Believe me that a woman (and a ton of money to stuff you want) can make you happy, as long as there is love. They just don't wanna be with someone who is heavily depressed. But maybe a loving relationship is not part of the lessons you have to learn in this life.

 

Buddhism may fit you better than Taoism. It has a rather negative view on life. They see enlightenment as an escape of what they basically see as hell. And let's be honest, for many people life is indeed hell. Many taoists on the other hand enjoy sex and good food. They are after cultivating their health, spirit, relationships - they are curious about the world they live in. Bit more positive than the Tibetants. Maybe it was the weather. It's rather cold 5,000 meters and up... The scenery is nice though.

 

I believe that the Creator and Enlightenment can make me much happier than mere petty women or even petty money can ever make me.

 

It is not that I have not been with women. It is not that I have not been making money.

 

Both are empty pursuits which give you nothing at the end of the day.

Happiness give you nothing at the end of the day.

 

It is only when you find Enlightenment when you find the Creator then can you find true happiness.

 

Can petty women give you the secrets of Enlightenment and Immortality? Can money give you the secrets of Enlightenment and Immortality?

 

Why do you think the Taoist Sages have rejected money and power time and time again over the centuries?

 

Btw, those taoists who enjoy sex and good food? They ain't taoists.

 

They are just freaking posers who pretend to be taoist.

 

There is no true difference between a taoist and a buddhist. Both seek enlightenment through the culling of their senses.

[tulku]

i wish i could minus one a post! where is the little red button? hahaha

 

and where are the bull testicles?? that was more interesting!! :D lets hijack this thread again

 

i dont think our previous efforts were sufficient enough

 

I don't think your efforts will ever be sufficient to hijack this thread.

[konchog uma]

I don't think your efforts will ever be sufficient to hijack this thread.

 

 

[Aaron]

OMG.. monks asking you for sex.. what have you been sniffing man? Are you sure you are still not off drugs yet?

 

Who says life is about pleasure or pain? Who determines life is about pleasure or pain? You?

 

Do you really think that life is only about pleasures and pain just because you have experienced only the pleasures and pain of life?

 

Do you think that just because a few monks go crazy so all monks are crazy?

 

Don't be childish.

 

You said that you have given up sex, alcohol, cigarettes yet you are still going to bars and clubs which promote the way of sex, alcohol and cigarettes.

 

It is not that one doesn't have control over these addictions and desires.

 

It is that YOU doesn't have control over these addictions and desires.

 

DO you know how people get addicted to these desires? It is because desires have emotional, mental and spiritual energies and when people let these energies hijack their consciousness, that is how addictions are formed.

 

If you truly have control over your addictions, you wouldn't even think about going to bars, clubs and these type of places where the energies of sex, alcohol and smoking are so prevalent that even a monk will fall prey to them if this monk is chained up in this place 24 hours for a year straight.

 

Tis all about energies, my friend and you have so aptly demonstrated that you still do not have the consciousness to reject the energies of these desires because you are too weak-willed.

 

Why else would you still waste your time in bars and clubs if you have totally rejected the energies of sex, alcohol and cigarettes? It is because these energies are still subconsciously calling you back into those haunts!

 

A monk choose to be celibate because he is training his consciousness to reject the energies of desires. Granted, some monks will fail in their training because no one is perfect.

 

This is why monks live in monasteries because their consciousness are at the most well-defended in holy places where there is a high consciousness.

 

Otherwise, monks would have began their training in bars, clubs and other night-time haunts a long time ago.

 

As I said, it is not that people have no control over their desires. It is that your consciousness are too weak to control and resist your desires.

 

I really advise you to stay from bars and clubs for the rest of your life and trust me, I was once like you.

 

One more thing, aaron, please do not say you are enlightened when you can't even resist the basic temptations of sex, alcohol and cigarettes.

 

You are not fit to call yourself enlightened.

 

Hello Tulku,

 

You are ignorant. I have no desire to drink, smoke, or indulge in sex indiscriminately, hence I can go to a bar and not do any of those things. You are talking about hypotheticals, you don't understand the experience. I can go to these places because I have no desire to do any of them... I don't know how to make that any clearer. The fact that I choose to go to a bar, doesn't mean I want to drink, have sex, or smoke, rather it means that I have some other purpose for being there. One does not need to go to a bar simply to drink, one can go and talk, listen to music, or do something else. Perhaps one day you'll be able to understand this, until then, kindly keep your opinions to yourself.

 

Second Buddha drank, probably smoked, and obviously had sex. I'm sure he went to bars, hung around with people that weren't pious, and he was still Buddha. I am not saying that I am Buddha, I'm saying you are completely ignorant for believing that, because you lack self control, which is what this comes down to, that everyone else does. I am also very happy that you think I am not enlightened, because I think if you did, that would scare me more.

 

I may be crossing the line here, if so I accept any punishment deemed necessary, but I think your problem stems from a deep seated hatred of yourself. You are doing things you think are bad and suffering immense guilt from that. You are pushing your guilt off on others in an attempt to appease your own self loathing, but let me be the first to tell you that wont happen. You wont get rid of those filthy thoughts by being pious, only by addressing them, seeing the effects they have on your life, and making a decision to turn your will and your life over to the care of something greater than yourself. Right now you are very religious, but if you want to overcome these things you need to become spiritual, unfortunately the depth of spirituality necessary to achieve this is only born from great suffering, so I sense that you will need to suffer more before you will ever be able to find a way to come to terms with this and ultimately find help for whatever is causing you to suffer.

 

Aaron

 

edit- You wont be able to find salvation from it in a monastery or cave either, nor will you be able to escape it by going to these places. The fact of the matter is that it will follow you wherever you go, because it is within you.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Twinner

[C T]

 

I don't care much about all the intricacies of Taosim either, but I like the curious, adventurous spirit. Possibly the only religion/philosophy without a totally corrupted high authority... but like I said, need to study deeper (but already studied deeper than 99,99% of the people out there).

Ah, i see... then you are one of the fortunate ones. Its good to know you are making the effort to learn and to discover more. Its a great habit to have, so well done, my friend.

 

When we can cultivate the eye to see beneath the surface of things, often, we may be filled with surprising finds, just like when one goes treasure hunting. The good things are often laid hidden beneath, or sometimes, people cover up the good things as a sort of camouflage so that the gems are not gotten at by too many, in which case they may end up devalued. I could be wrong, but i think in many aspects, Taoism is something like that.

 

Just a small observation if i may... If you want to know more about Buddhism, then The Tibetan Book of the Dead, although an essential reference for the more serious student of Buddhism, would not be too appropriate as a source material to get a good foundational grasp of authentic Buddhist philosophy and practices.

 

Thank you for the kind reply. Much appreciated.

[Stigweard]

There is a point where even city married life is just yet another attachment.

 

If you are arguing for city married life, you are attached to it.

 

If you feel you need to promote it, you are attached to it.

 

If you are arguing against city married life, you are attached to it.

 

If you renounced the concept of city married life, what do you have left?

 

Absolutely!!!

 

Back to this question though:

 

If you renounced the concept of renunciation, what do you have left?

 

[FixXxer1846]

@Tulku

 

Are you trying to tell me there are no higher forms of beings out there in the universe whose consciousness is so high that they would not fall into the addictions of sex, women, food, fun and anything else that indulge the senses?

 

There's a difference between enjoying/appreciating something that is part of earthly life and being addicted to it. Everybody knows that.

 

As an update to my previous post... yeah, I also have problems with Taoist masters keeping their info to themselves and a few "chosen ones" and the royal courts. They should have spread it to the masses, at least the basic levels. The benefits far outweigh any potential risks. But you what they say about knowledge... it's power. And you know what they say about power... it corrupts.

Edited September 6, 2011 by FixXxer1845

[tulku]

Hello Tulku,

 

You are ignorant. I have no desire to drink, smoke, or indulge in sex indiscriminately, hence I can go to a bar and not do any of those things. You are talking about hypotheticals, you don't understand the experience. I can go to these places because I have no desire to do any of them... I don't know how to make that any clearer. The fact that I choose to go to a bar, doesn't mean I want to drink, have sex, or smoke, rather it means that I have some other purpose for being there. One does not need to go to a bar simply to drink, one can go and talk, listen to music, or do something else. Perhaps one day you'll be able to understand this, until then, kindly keep your opinions to yourself.

 

Second Buddha drank, probably smoked, and obviously had sex. I'm sure he went to bars, hung around with people that weren't pious, and he was still Buddha. I am not saying that I am Buddha, I'm saying you are completely ignorant for believing that, because you lack self control, which is what this comes down to, that everyone else does. I am also very happy that you think I am not enlightened, because I think if you did, that would scare me more.

 

I may be crossing the line here, if so I accept any punishment deemed necessary, but I think your problem stems from a deep seated hatred of yourself. You are doing things you think are bad and suffering immense guilt from that. You are pushing your guilt off on others in an attempt to appease your own self loathing, but let me be the first to tell you that wont happen. You wont get rid of those filthy thoughts by being pious, only by addressing them, seeing the effects they have on your life, and making a decision to turn your will and your life over to the care of something greater than yourself. Right now you are very religious, but if you want to overcome these things you need to become spiritual, unfortunately the depth of spirituality necessary to achieve this is only born from great suffering, so I sense that you will need to suffer more before you will ever be able to find a way to come to terms with this and ultimately find help for whatever is causing you to suffer.

 

Aaron

 

edit- You wont be able to find it in a monastery or cave either, nor will you be able to escape it by going to these places. The fact of the matter is that it will follow you wherever you go, because it is within you.

 

I can tell you right now, Aaron.

 

You will be the one who will be suffering in bondage to your desires for all of eternity.

 

I don't hate myself. On the contrary, I love myself.

 

What I do hate however are all those "enlightened" poseurs who think they hold all the answers to the universe just because they caught a glimpse of oneness.

 

If you are truly enlightened, then let me ask you. Do you have the capacity to communicate with the gods and even the Creator/Tao/Universe himself?

 

Of course not. You are just pretending to be "enlightened" while indulging yourself in the everyday luxuries of life because you are too weak-willed to resist the energies of desires conjured up by external beings.

 

What's needed to transcend these desires is not religion, suffering or even spirituality.

 

What's needed to transcend these desires is the acceptance of death as the inevitability of life.

 

Why do people indulge in their senses? Because they are afraid of Death and they indulge in their senses to feel alive!

 

As I said before, I expect the energies of desires to come down upon you much harder than before and I expect that you will suffer in bondage to your desires for the rest of this life-time and for eternity until your soul becomes so tired it will dissolve into nothing as a result of endless incarnations of lifetimes of desires.

 

That will be the punishment for one enslaved in desires.