How to realize rigpa ?

[angeloio]

Dear all,

 

My name is John and I am a new member here. There has been some marvelous work in these forums that I recently discovered and I sincerely hope to be able to add my little knowledge wherever I can and also get answers to the many questions that I have.

 

I originally met Tibetan Buddhism a little more than two years ago in a seminar about phowa training in the Bon tradition in Budapest. There first I heard about Dzogchen, rigpa, Tapihritsa, Guru Yoga and the rest. Then I started to read a lot books about Dzogchen and Tantra ( I attended another seminar about mother Tantra in Graaz this year which was not what I was expecting - even though I got an empowerment) and here I am.

 

From the moment I discovered Dzogchen, I felt it speak into my heart. From then onwards I am trying to experience/discover the "natural state of mind". I have read a lot about it, I even attended a direct transmission by Norbu Rinpoche via live streaming from the internet (no comments ) about a week ago but ...I guess I do not even know what I am searching for....let alone felt it.....My meditation practice is calm abiding focusing on the voidness of thoughts with eyes closed or with eyes open watching a remote natural scene. Also I try to imagine the following (most there are adaptations from text I have read in the search to find alaya of habits or even rigpa...).

 

1. 
    
   
2. Try to image how would I be with no senses...especially with no sense of touch
   
3. Try to imagine what it means "The experience and the experiencer are the same"
   
4. Try to find out who is 'I'
   
5. Try to feel in what way the vision I see with my eyes is not different from me (there is not a 'me' looking at something)
   
6. Try to just *be*...do not focus on anything
   
7. Be mindful and in silence most of the day
   

 

Unfortunately I still do not have a personal teacher. Recently I thought I could try Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche and be his student, I even scheduled to go to his Yang Ti retreat but my financial situation did not allow it Then I learned that 1,300 people were going to attend his retreat in Italy and got more dissapointed. I guess with these numbers the possibility of becoming his student is less than...zero...

 

Any help on understanding and realizing alaya of habits, natural state of mind, rigpa etc would be extremely welcomed.

 

I thank you all in advance

 

Regards

John

[Sunya]

Hi John,

Are there any Vajrayana teachers living near you? I think you'll find all of Tibetan Buddhism to be quite profound, not just the Dzogchen lineage.

 

If you want to practice through Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, the Shang Shung book store has all the books that you need to practice. Is there a Dzogchen Community center near you?

 

If you want a live connection with a teacher, Namkhai Norbu might not be the best choice since as you say he has many students, but I hear he is available for email and his transmissions through webcast are powerful.

[xabir2005]

Chnnr is a great teacher.

 

Where do you live?

[angeloio]

Hi Sunya,

 

Thanks for your time. Unfortunately in Greece Vajrayana teachers are endangered species or I should probably say they are already extinct. It is a big shame on us with all our big ancient civilization to have reached such a state but this is reality...

 

There is a Dzogchen Community center in Italy (the closest) but they are not very helpful or they are very busy (I bet the last). I emailed them a couple of times and did not get a reply. Unfortunately I lost the YangTi retreat because of my finances

 

I will see Norbu however in a retreat in London and I will try to speak to him even for 5 minutes. I don't know if this is possible or not....

 

Regarding the webcast, I at least, did not experience anything in particular...it was just a chanting....But I do not know what I should expect...Do you have any rigpa experiences ?

 

Thanks again

[xabir2005]

Yes, chogyal namkhai norbu rinpoche is contactable through email, but he is a busy man so im not sure how easy it is get through to him.

 

Pm me if you wish to know the address

Edited August 24, 2011 by xabir2005

[xabir2005]

Plus there actually are a few vajrayana centres in greece that you can check out: http://www.buddhanet.info/wbd//country.php?country_id=63

[xabir2005]

To answer your question in your topic title, in the dzogchen tradition, Loppon Namdrol states:

 

 

'Dzogchen is always non-gradual: for example, if the student does not "get it", as a reuslt of receiving direct introduction he or she can use the methods of semzin and rushan which are "self-introductions."

 

N'

 

 

...This is not correct-- once you have given people direct introduction, they also receive to things-- authorization to practice guru yoga, for "blessings" and to engage in the preliminary practices for tregchod, rushan and semzin.

 

Rushan and semzin are methods used to discover on one's own the knowledge introduced in the direct introduction.

 

Of course, I always think is it better than people have grounding in Abhidharma before they practice anything-- but that is in an ideal world...

 

 

...Rushan and Semzin are used to find the gdangs of one's rigpa after direct introduction if one did not recognize it at that time or to renew one's acquaintance with it, if you will...

 

- Namdrol

[angeloio]

Thank you xabir2005 for all your time and interest

 

I will look deeply into all the information you so kindly gave me.

 

Thanks again

[angeloio]

xabir2005 where can I find information/instructions regarding Rushan and semzin ?

 

I am not familiar with them...

[xabir2005]

You should learn it from a dzogchen teacher.

 

Why don't you ask the dzogchen community in greece for more info: http://dzogchen.gr/gr/index.php

[Sunya]

John,

There are in fact some Vajrayana centers in Greece that you can check out. Why not do that first? It's great to meet a teacher in person and form a relationship.

 

If you don't want to, then you can purchase books by Namkhai Norbu from the Shang Shang bookstore and learn Dzogchen that way. They have a book on Rushens there. You need to be a member, and I think their low income membership is $70 a year last time I checked, so it's pretty affordable.

[Pero]

I have read a lot about it, I even attended a direct transmission by Norbu Rinpoche via live streaming from the internet (no comments ) about a week ago but ...I guess I do not even know what I am searching for....let alone felt it.....

 

I'm sorry, but just by "attending" the worldwide transmission you don't get anything. You need to learn what you're doing first.

 

Unfortunately I still do not have a personal teacher. Recently I thought I could try Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

Though it is not possible for him to be your "personal teacher", I think that anyone who receives teachings from him, tries to understand them and apply them, is his student.

 

There is a closer center, Merigar East in Romania. And he is planning to come to Greece next year, though I think if you can it's better to try to meet him when you know you can. Because the future is the future and many things can change. It is possible to speak with him for a few minutes after a teaching.

 

Also, in general one shouldn't speak about one's experiences to total strangers.

[Vajrahridaya]

I'm sorry, but just by "attending" the worldwide transmission you don't get anything.

 

Not always true, it depends upon your sensitivity. My wife studied absolutely nothing on Dzogchen. But, when he gave the transmission, she experienced something very profound that changed her perception of things in a very profound way forever. He came into her dreams, spoke to her, had some visions of colors and lights, etc. etc. She was very freaked out at first, and almost scared she was loosing her mind, but I assured her that she was just finding her mind.

 

Anyway... what you experience during a World Wide transmission depends on your karmic connection to the lineage.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Pero]

Not always true, it depends upon your sensitivity. My wife studied absolutely nothing on Dzogchen.

 

I guess that's true, you don't have to study anything on Dzogchen, but you should certainly know what to do during the transmission. I suppose there could be some very rare exceptions to this, however IMO it's silly to expect that one is that exception. If it would be sufficient to simply listen and not do anything there would be no books on what to do during the transmission or frequent explanations of it before the transmission at various places.

[Vajrahridaya]

I guess that's true, you don't have to study anything on Dzogchen, but you should certainly know what to do during the transmission. I suppose there could be some very rare exceptions to this, however IMO it's silly to expect that one is that exception. If it would be sufficient to simply listen and not do anything there would be no books on what to do during the transmission or frequent explanations of it before the transmission at various places.

 

Actually, when having such experiences like my wife has, it's even more paramount to do the study in order to contextualize the seemingly spontaneous occurrences in order to understand their deeper causes, effects and wisdoms.

 

She's very slow to study... Drives me crazy because she asks me questions all the time, when I'm doing other things and I give her books that she starts but never get's into. She prefers to hound me. She say's she prefers to learn in conversation. But, I tell her I'm not qualified to really teach Dzogchen like that. Anyway... yes... I agree that study is paramount, coupled with practice no matter what!

 

I just wanted to point out that not all nut's are hard to crack.

[JustARandomPanda]

Not always true, it depends upon your sensitivity. My wife studied absolutely nothing on Dzogchen. But, when he gave the transmission, she experienced something very profound that changed her perception of things in a very profound way forever. He came into her dreams, spoke to her, had some visions of colors and lights, etc. etc. She was very freaked out at first, and almost scared she was loosing her mind, but I assured her that she was just finding her mind.

 

Anyway... what you experience during a World Wide transmission depends on your karmic connection to the lineage.

 

 

 

*heavy sigh*

 

I wish I had a karmic connection to a Lineage like this.

 

BTW - what is the difference between Dzogchen and Mahamudra? Do both need a transmitting teacher for one to get started in it?

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

*heavy sigh*

 

I wish I had a karmic connection to a Lineage like this.

 

BTW - what is the difference between Dzogchen and Mahamudra? Do both need a transmitting teacher for one to get started in it?

Mahamudra is generally going to have more preliminaries, and more studies... generally, even though the outcome is said to be the same in both. Even in Dzogchen, different teachers teach differently. Some teach a more Mahamudra style Dzogchen. It really depends on the teacher how it's transmitted, but yes... for all Vajrayana practices you'll need transmission from realized lineage.

[C T]

To Serene Blue... an article that sheds some light on your question regarding Mahamudra and Dzogchen -

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/advanced/dzogchen/basic_points/introduction_dzogchen.html

[xabir2005]

 

 

*heavy sigh*

 

I wish I had a karmic connection to a Lineage like this.

 

BTW - what is the difference between Dzogchen and Mahamudra? Do both need a transmitting teacher for one to get started in it?

It all leads to the same thing. But the methodology is not exactly the same - Mahamudra being more gradual, for example. Nevertheless it is not that one is better than another, I think more important is which do you feel more resonance and helpful. I think both Dzogchen and Mahamudra are great teachings. Some people even receives teachings from both. Both requires transmissions.

 

Namdrol:

 

 

Kagyu Mahamudra is gradual and experiential, so some people think it is a more suitable instruction for acquainting people with the nature of the mind.

 

Dzogchen introduction is also experiential, but it really depends on the student's acumen to get it since it is not as gradual and step by step.

 

.......

 

Not really. If you examine, for example Bokar Rinpoches introduction section to his Mahāmudra text (Opening the Door The Definitive Meaning), you can see that there are steps such as the introduction to movement and the introduction to stillness and so on.

 

When one starts to work with the introduction to self-liberated mahāmudra and so on, however, then you are approaching the same meaning and intent as Dzogchen (note, I received this teaching and transmission completely from a disciple of Bokar Rinpoche's i.e. Khachab Rinpoche).

Edited August 26, 2011 by xabir2005

[Sunya]

I heard the book Secret of the Vajra World is good... just ordered myself a copy

[Sunya]

http://bcove.me/6gz19fhz

 

really good talk on Mahamudra with Daniel Brown. Worth watching!

Edited August 27, 2011 by Sunya

[C T]

In addition, i think anyone who wants to self-learn Dzogchen and uncover/stabilize Rigpa should get a copy of this:

 

http://www.keithdowman.net/books/fg.htm#Flight of the Garuda

 

its not expensive: http://www.amazon.com/Flight-Garuda-Dzogchen-Tradition-Buddhism/dp/0861713672

 

 

 

"When you practice wholeheartedly,

you may have meditative experiences,

discuss them with others,

write commentaries,

and sing songs of realization.

Although these are manifestations (of the practice),

they will (only) increase thoughts.

Remain in the state beyond concepts.

This is my advice from the heart."

(Longchenpa)

Edited August 27, 2011 by CowTao

[C T]

In addition, i think anyone who wants to self-learn Dzogchen and uncover/stabilize Rigpa should get a copy of this:

 

http://www.keithdowman.net/books/fg.htm#Flight of the Garuda

 

 

its not expensive: http://www.amazon.com/Flight-Garuda-Dzogchen-Tradition-Buddhism/dp/0861713672

[xabir2005]

In addition, i think anyone who wants to self-learn Dzogchen and uncover/stabilize Rigpa should get a copy of this:

 

http://www.keithdowman.net/books/fg.htm#Flight of the Garuda

 

its not expensive: http://www.amazon.com/Flight-Garuda-Dzogchen-Tradition-Buddhism/dp/0861713672

 

 

 

"When you practice wholeheartedly,

you may have meditative experiences,

discuss them with others,

write commentaries,

and sing songs of realization.

Although these are manifestations (of the practice),

they will (only) increase thoughts.

Remain in the state beyond concepts.

This is my advice from the heart."

(Longchenpa)

I agree, a seriously good book... and I am still finding new depths when I re-read portions of it recently. It's very different when you have direct experience and insight and re-read them.

[C T]

I agree, a seriously good book... and I am still finding new depths when I re-read portions of it recently. It's very different when you have direct experience and insight and re-read them.

True...