The return of the body light

[hagar]

I've been focusing primarily on the "light" forms in my practice lately, with an additional prolonged Nei Dan sitting, and some interesting realizations have started to appear. I basically wonder if anyone has come across similar effects of practice;

 

Collecting the body light is done through static or moving forms that infuse and permeate the body with light that initally is, to lesser or greater degree, dispersed. A highly trained practitioner may see this as the light of the body allmost like a waning comet dispersing istelf continuously, provoking the decay of the organsim. Most commonly, the effects of dispersing the body light or shen is felt through letting the awareness seep out through the senses, like watching TV, emotional upheaval, being "top heavy", etc. As an effect you feel inflated, tired, sleepy, unfocused and unaware. What most people are not mindful of is that most ailments and many illnesses actually start with this kind of dispersal of the Shen. Even very dense material, like back issues, and organ problems seem to be deeply connected to this dispersal.

 

In and of itself, our life energy is actually the meeting of the insubstantial light, that is also the cosmic light infusing interacting with matter. The substance or matter feels almost like a magnetic pull, attracting light. When the light meets the matter, life begins. When light leaves, decay, illness and death occurs.

 

What happens more frequently in Nei Dan sittings for me is sometimes, spontaneously, a very precise "slit-second" gathering of the light into the LDT, and something similar to a subtle spark or blast occurs with immediate effects on the body. Last night this was experienced as a sudden correction of the spine, and almost like the light "jumped" into the body, the spine in particular. It felt like the body was jolted back to life.

 

At other times, it feels like a microwave effect, as if I am a stick-man and the skeleton is light collecting light from every direction, like a magnet collecting metal dust. The interesting aspect of this is that there is no chi sensation, no pulsing, but instead a dry, radiating white heat coming from inside. it is extrememly soothing, yet also extremely subtle. My sense is that the Dan Tian is actually not located in the physical body, but that instead, the body is "added onto" the insubstantial reality of a point in space, which is the origin of the physical body. It also feels like "realization" is actually the cultivation of this point, and that this point just "is".

 

Another amazing effect of this is that any position can be held indefinately if I just withdraw the tension into this point. This point is just space and if I open and welcome any tension, emotion or resistance into this space, it dissapears. Thus I can stand with my hands above my head indefinately, I can sit more or less as long as I want, and stand in a squatting position as long as I am completely tuned into this space. It is as if cultivation of this aspect is also the dissapearance of the cultivator. Its letting go of anyone doing it.

 

Anyone had any of these effects in this practice? What are the subsidiary effects of working with light+

 

h

[Apech]

I know its not very helpful but I can relate to everything you have said. I have had similar experiences/observations. I would also add that the matter which the light interacts with is something like structured voidity (if this makes any sense).

[imonous]

+1 Very nice post

 

My personal opinion is that as long as we are "alive" we cannot completely stop from "losing" or "spilling" light energy as it is the substance of life and everything requires it to generate "awareness/experience". I should add that the goal is not necessarily to stop the leakage (although it helps to slow), but to increase the rate as well that it is "attracted" to you. More of an input/output equation rather than a collect & store as much as possible paradigm. There also becomes a point when the light in you collects "fast" enough that it begins to direct your consciousness, instead of the "physical you" doing the work. After this life is all just letting go into the experience and literally witnessing the birth of your own godself. Life itself becomes very much alive for you.

Edited August 22, 2011 by imonous

[doc benway]

Interesting description hagar, especially your discussion of the body "added on" to the insubstantial "point in space."

My nei dan experiences have been very similar. In fact, this has been the source of recognizing the separation, if you will, of mind and brain. This was questioned in another thread. Not something one can really relate in words but I think you'll know what I'm referring to.

[Seth Ananda]

Very cool Hagar

 

I too have similar experiences. My early Shavite teachers told me that Light [white] is underlying everything, and taught me to send my 'feeling' out past all the other vibrations to that underlying light, and then to just breath and remain 'intuiting' the light behind everything. I found this practice so beneficial on so many levels.

 

Later when I began chigung It was very natural to do my form at this level, and yes, then I found that I could hold postures for a very long time when doing so from that state... And the body adjustments were powerful, And yes, unmindful activity would slowly disperse any good work I had done...

 

to me this plane of energy does feel like the underlying organising structure of the universe...

 

Blessings on your Path

[Procurator]

I've been focusing primarily on the "light" forms in my practice lately, with an additional prolonged Nei Dan sitting, and some interesting realizations have started to appear. I basically wonder if anyone has come across similar effects of practice;

 

Collecting the body light is done through static or moving forms that infuse and permeate the body with light that initally is, to lesser or greater degree, dispersed. A highly trained practitioner may see this as the light of the body allmost like a waning comet dispersing istelf continuously, provoking the decay of the organsim. Most commonly, the effects of dispersing the body light or shen is felt through letting the awareness seep out through the senses, like watching TV, emotional upheaval, being "top heavy", etc. As an effect you feel inflated, tired, sleepy, unfocused and unaware. What most people are not mindful of is that most ailments and many illnesses actually start with this kind of dispersal of the Shen. Even very dense material, like back issues, and organ problems seem to be deeply connected to this dispersal.

 

In and of itself, our life energy is actually the meeting of the insubstantial light, that is also the cosmic light infusing interacting with matter. The substance or matter feels almost like a magnetic pull, attracting light. When the light meets the matter, life begins. When light leaves, decay, illness and death occurs.

 

What happens more frequently in Nei Dan sittings for me is sometimes, spontaneously, a very precise "slit-second" gathering of the light into the LDT, and something similar to a subtle spark or blast occurs with immediate effects on the body. Last night this was experienced as a sudden correction of the spine, and almost like the light "jumped" into the body, the spine in particular. It felt like the body was jolted back to life.

 

.....

 

Anyone had any of these effects in this practice? What are the subsidiary effects of working with light+

 

h

these are good results but because yr teacher did not explain u the process- u still work with xing only. that leads to a second error - collecting light that is not ripe yet.

 

otherwise, good for you.

[hagar]

I know its not very helpful but I can relate to everything you have said. I have had similar experiences/observations. I would also add that the matter which the light interacts with is something like structured voidity (if this makes any sense).

 

I think know what you mean by structured voidity. There is really no place where the chi can be blocked, and the matter is in and of itself empty in nature. Only through some subtle perceptual filtering does matter become "dense"

 

h

[hagar]

+1 Very nice post

 

My personal opinion is that as long as we are "alive" we cannot completely stop from "losing" or "spilling" light energy as it is the substance of life and everything requires it to generate "awareness/experience". I should add that the goal is not necessarily to stop the leakage (although it helps to slow), but to increase the rate as well that it is "attracted" to you. More of an input/output equation rather than a collect & store as much as possible paradigm. There also becomes a point when the light in you collects "fast" enough that it begins to direct your consciousness, instead of the "physical you" doing the work. After this life is all just letting go into the experience and literally witnessing the birth of your own godself. Life itself becomes very much alive for you.

 

Thanks for feedback. Just to elaborate; in this practice, there is no focus in collecting nor storing, only conducting or manifesting, or more like sealing, so that there is no more dispersal. A baby has a completely sealed sphere of light, a sick or unbalanced person a dispersed and chaotic mixture of shadow and light in non-harmonious patterns, creating disturbance in the substantial and insubstantial matrix of the body.

 

Please elaborate on what you mena by directing consiousness. I think I know what you mean , but I might be wrong.

 

h

[hagar]

Interesting description hagar, especially your discussion of the body "added on" to the insubstantial "point in space."

My nei dan experiences have been very similar. In fact, this has been the source of recognizing the separation, if you will, of mind and brain. This was questioned in another thread. Not something one can really relate in words but I think you'll know what I'm referring to.

 

Ah, yes, brain, or thought is definately felt like a reaction, or adaptation to energetic or other conditioning, and consciousness feels non-local, yet can be condensed and dispersed. Or this may not be what you mean...

h

[hagar]

Very cool Hagar

 

I too have similar experiences. My early Shavite teachers told me that Light [white] is underlying everything, and taught me to send my 'feeling' out past all the other vibrations to that underlying light, and then to just breath and remain 'intuiting' the light behind everything. I found this practice so beneficial on so many levels.

 

Later when I began chigung It was very natural to do my form at this level, and yes, then I found that I could hold postures for a very long time when doing so from that state... And the body adjustments were powerful, And yes, unmindful activity would slowly disperse any good work I had done...

 

to me this plane of energy does feel like the underlying organising structure of the universe...

 

Blessings on your Path

 

Great feedback! yes, it feels like this light is permeating, but not necessarily reflected in all practice.

very true about the level of commitment to the present moment. The obligation to this practice is that every moment is an "all" or "nothing" moment. There is other way to cultivate this than maintaining, to as high degree as possible the tuning into this light in all activity as possible. If not, it fades. So as a consequence, the higher the subtle level, the easier it is to disrupt in a way.

 

h

[hagar]

these are good results but because yr teacher did not explain u the process- u still work with xing only. that leads to a second error - collecting light that is not ripe yet.

 

otherwise, good for you.

 

My teacher did explain the process, yet I did not go into detail about it here. If you are so inclined, please explain what you mean by "error", as this there is no maturation process of light. As I have been trained, we are not defining light as ripe or not, and this does definately not only work on Xing. It is more an fusion of essential light and essential water, or the red and white "sparks" if approached slightly differently. In forming the Dan or pearl, this condensed energy utilized both decayed and prenatal energy. Both is seen as medicine.

 

h

[Procurator]

My teacher did explain the process, yet I did not go into detail about it here. If you are so inclined, please explain what you mean by "error", as this there is no maturation process of light.

if you read e.g. Ch. Luk's "Chinese yoga" u will find a phrase "first stage is white light - it is useless"

 

As I have been trained, we are not defining light as ripe or not, and this does definately not only work on Xing.

 

if whatever u r doing involved ming too u would noticed specific effects on the body, beyond what u have described.

[doc benway]

if you read e.g. Ch. Luk's "Chinese yoga" u will find a phrase "first stage is white light - it is useless"

 

 

 

if whatever u r doing involved ming too u would noticed specific effects on the body, beyond what u have described.

Are you telling us that you're judging and discounting the insights hagar gains through personal work based on what you read in Charles Luk's book?

 

Really? Reading that book makes you hagar's meditation teacher?

 

 

Well, I guess that's what we ask for when we post on an open forum.

[hagar]

Not going into any discussions about the qualities of different paths, and the usability of written vs experiental accounts, this boils down to the obvious incommensurability of approaches, especially if we take into accont this basic fact:

 

- Contrary to common belief, (the "higher" the level of any particular path, the more similar the effects, emphsis and effects) the subtler and more less physically oriented a particular practice becomes, it also becomes more unique, less comparable to other practices. This denotes to Nei Dan in particular, and probably alot of the more spesific shen-based forms. Reason being that it relies more on the quality of the particular transmission of that practice or system ther further on you go.

 

I have read Charles Luk's book, and are vaguely familiar with the approach that is described there and it difers radically from what is my own practice.

 

My own practice has no outlied "roadmap" of sign, milestones and is not cummulative and gradual. The highest is also the most simple. It has no clear dont's and do's except not focusing on the Niwan or head cavities in exclusion to lower body cavities. The use of the traditional concepts of Ming and Xian, although relevant in general, depends on the commitment to a monastic version of Nei Dan practice not very applicable to modern lay practitioners. My own practice will produce similar effects, but will not induce the "embryo" that has the objective of being transmitted out of the body before death. Instead the emphasis is on creating health, longevity and spiritual realization produced from proper alignment of method and quality of application.

 

That said, I do believe that there are common markers, common signs of transformation and non-lineage dependent experiences that has value for any practitioner of inner alchemy, and Daoist meditation in particular.

 

Another point that I'd like feedback on is that what is felt as the "radiation" effect in the practice I do, I also experience in meditations from other lieages and even traditions, like Advaita, Tantric paths, Tibetan Buddhist paths and so on. Even listening to Eckhart Tolle... So ther are common effects that are relatively easy to recognize energetically from radically different paths.

 

Last but not least; I am not an expert, but more like a beginner and explorer of this path, finding myself more and more curious to the almost unexplainable effects this practice has on my body. No fireworks, no special powers, only a profound stillness and ease, and a feeling of rejuvenation that is very comfortable indeed.

 

bla bla

 

h

Edited August 24, 2011 by hagar

[宁]

Are you telling us that you're judging and discounting the insights hagar gains through personal work based on what you read in Charles Luk's book?

 

Really? Reading that book makes you hagar's meditation teacher?

 

 

Well, I guess that's what we ask for when we post on an open forum.

 

some people can't discuss the theory in their school, so they point out simmilar theories in other schools when they want to say something of the kind.

 

don't scare him off

[Aetherous]

TianShi,

 

if you read e.g. Ch. Luk's "Chinese yoga" u will find a phrase "first stage is white light - it is useless"

 

You've completely misunderstood what is meant by this phrase.

[Procurator]

TianShi,

 

 

 

You've completely misunderstood what is meant by this phrase.

i have completely experienced that phrase and that phase. i dont think u have.

[Aetherous]

Well, I completely disagree based on what you wrote. Enjoy.

[Fu_dog]

Hagar - you observed in your OP something to the effect that "the cultivation involves the disappearance of the cultivator."

 

That's a nice way of describing the state one can enter when in a deep state of qigong/neigong meditation. I have also experienced this, however, could not have expressed it so eloquently.

 

Good post. Not sure about what you mean regarding "the radiation effect". Can you please clarify?

[suninmyeyes]

 

 

Anyone had any of these effects in this practice? What are the subsidiary effects of working with light+

 

h

Hello Hagar,

Nice post.

I also had am having similar expirience .Like Seth Ananada I feel that white light is underalying principle,almost like a skeleton for the more gross physical manifestation.

I have mainly come to that expirience through some yogic practises that lead to meditative states.

The thing is IMO opinion and expirience is that light is working with 'you',and that light is not really gathered ,but rather discovered.And shapes or any forms (physical,mental,emotional)depend persons thoughts or how open or closed mind is.

I would be interested to hear what other people think.

What are the effects for working with light?

Trying to find out where does this light come from?Is it produced by me or is it universal substance?How am I relating to it,how is it relating to me ?Why?So many questions can be answered like this ,it is really a beutiful opportunity.

One time when I meditated A LOT for a prolonged period I could just concentrate on question look deeply in the light and would get an answer,amazing answer about all different things.It was answered through the light,its like almost a light language.One starts understanding finer manifestation in a very natural way.Its not like :wow!,its more like :oh yeah,thaaats how it works!.

In my expirience after some time light can become so dense ,it is not coming and going ,so full and bright everything melts in the vacuus 'space' and :wub: deep meditation occurs.

[Todd]

Another point that I'd like feedback on is that what is felt as the "radiation" effect in the practice I do, I also experience in meditations from other lieages and even traditions, like Advaita, Tantric paths, Tibetan Buddhist paths and so on. Even listening to Eckhart Tolle... So ther are common effects that are relatively easy to recognize energetically from radically different paths.

 

 

 

In my experience, the radiation effect is a result of seeing the world in a different way. So the source of the radiation is a way of seeing. This is in no way restricted to practitioners of spiritual systems. It happens naturally between all humans, and probably other beings (such as trees, dogs, cats, insects, etc...). If we spend time around people who see something as possible, then it becomes more possible, or even probable for us. Even just hearing such a person talk can affect the way that we perceive things, and hence our experience. Experience is not separate from energy, so it can be experienced as energetic effects of interacting (however indirectly) with beings who see things in certain ways. It can work negatively as well, though perhaps the positive radiation is many times more powerful than the negative. The negative just happens to be more common in many respects.

 

Common to many paths, the more developed practitioners tend to see an aspect of all beings that they interact with as inherently positive and powerful. For example, they tend to know that every being has the potential and the reality of affecting both themselves and the world around them. So they are not so much transmitting the positive qualities that they see, but more highlighting them, which has a definite impact. A million dollars that you know you have will have a much greater impact on your life than a million dollars that you have forgotten about and never think to access, to use a fairly crude analogy.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Todd

[Todd]

And it doesn't have to just be seeing beings as powerful. Even just seeing that others are allowed to be as they are has a tremendous impact. Perhaps even greater than seeing them as powerful.

 

Meditation practices tend to develop this quality of seeing in people, even if unconsciously, since trying to control things can get so painful in them.

[LBDaoist]

On the subject of light I was dealing with some headaches after taking a flight to the east coast earlier in the week. When I closed my eyes and started to relax with the intention of dealing with the headache, I noticed a dark spot in the part of my head where the pain was. Through calm breathing and focused internal relaxation, I was able to dissipate the darkness and allow light into the area. There was a direct correlation between the amount of light / lack of darkness in the area and the amount of pain I felt.

 

Also lately during meditation, I have been paying attention to improving the quality of internal light (as perceived upon the back of my eyelids) instead of my breathing. My impression is that it is a less deep practice than breathing, but it is easier for me to maintain at this point in my life. The visual stimuli seems more engaging and easier to maintain than the physical stimuli that comes from maintaining awareness on the breathing.

[LBDaoist]

 

The thing is IMO opinion and expirience is that light is working with 'you',and that light is not really gathered ,but rather discovered.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. If you want to, read my previous response to Hagar regarding the headaches I was having. The awareness of light / dark became manifest to me as I was focusing on the pain and letting it go.

[suninmyeyes]

On the subject of light I was dealing with some headaches after taking a flight to the east coast earlier in the week. When I closed my eyes and started to relax with the intention of dealing with the headache, I noticed a dark spot in the part of my head where the pain was. Through calm breathing and focused internal relaxation, I was able to dissipate the darkness and allow light into the area. There was a direct correlation between the amount of light / lack of darkness in the area and the amount of pain I felt.

 

Also lately during meditation, I have been paying attention to improving the quality of internal light (as perceived upon the back of my eyelids) instead of my breathing. My impression is that it is a less deep practice than breathing, but it is easier for me to maintain at this point in my life. The visual stimuli seems more engaging and easier to maintain than the physical stimuli that comes from maintaining awareness on the breathing.

I have just read your post .It makes sense what you say.

Curious as to what makes you think that concentrating on light would be 'less deep' practise?

Prehaps you have some gem you discovered as to why and want to share?

How do you concentrate on visual stimuli?I mean wherther you have point of concentration or just watch where it arises?

One of the things I find is that it is great for healing purposes ,one can really discover what needs attention(as you have mentioned) and just paying attention how does it come into play reveals a lot.

Just remeberd this Burmese nun I met once and we were chatting about different styles of meditation and sharing things spiritual.She says that when she closes her eyes she sees inside her body -literally and was telling me how she fixed her knee once and could see bones being misplaced.And that this is not so uncommon among long term meditators.

Of course she could be not telling the truth, there is always that,but than again I could not be telling truth either .