Most people are afraid of Void as Void = Death and Loss

[tulku]

No, hehe. Dude. You cannot remove desires, you can only detach from them while alive. The only other way is to kill yourself, which would be a very couragious act from my point of view. The thing is, I cannot say what lies beyond the point of death, because I've not even completely been able to detach from my waking reality. The fear for me is still to great.

 

I can only detach from reality in subtle ways.

 

 

How do you differentiate between detaching from and removing desires?

 

How do you know you have not actually removed the desires from your soul when you said you have already detached from them?

 

Desires just like anything else in the universe can be killed.

 

Desires are just fake illusions conjured up by the consciousness remember?

 

EDIT: I wanna add something.

 

You mentioned before about how our reality is one giant fake illusion and we have to convince ourselves every single minute that every thing is fake.

 

Now I ask you.

 

Who is or who are controlling this reality.

 

Is it possible that there are now higher dimensional beings who are in charge of controlling various aspects of this reality?

 

One way of how they control reality is to introduce desires in the consciousness of humans so humans would be forced to behave in certain manner?

 

For eg, I want that human male to talk to that human female for whatever karmic reasons. So I introduce the desire of sex into that human male so that he would go approach that human female.

How do you know that desires are not feelings or thoughts introduced into our consciousness by external beings?

[tulku]

No, you are wrong again. I am amongst the highest ranking Taoists and I do not give up my desires. I simply lessen them so that all are easily attainable.

 

"I know nothing about Void because I have never been there. It's hard sometimes for me to just clear my mind."

 

Thank you MH for this very enlightening conversation.

[Marblehead]

Well, I just pissed off my frogs by going outside to turn the pond pumps back on. It is this time of the evening that they come out to hunt for food.

[Marblehead]

Thank you MH for this very enlightening conversation.

 

Is that suggesting that I have enlightened you? Hehehe.

[tulku]

[Sunya]

Well, I just pissed off my frogs by going outside to turn the pond pumps back on. It is this time of the evening that they come out to hunt for food.

 

Where do you live? I love ponds.

[Everything]

How do you differentiate between detaching from and removing desires?

 

How do you know you have not actually removed the desires from your soul when you said you have already detached from them?

 

Desires just like anything else in the universe can be killed.

 

Desires are just fake illusions conjured up by the consciousness remember?

 

EDIT: I wanna add something.

 

You mentioned before about how our reality is one giant fake illusion and we have to convince ourselves every single minute that every thing is fake.

 

Now I ask you.

 

Who is or who are controlling this reality.

 

Is it possible that there are now higher dimensional beings who are in charge of controlling various aspects of this reality?

 

One way of how they control reality is to introduce desires in the consciousness of humans so humans would be forced to behave in certain manner?

 

For eg, I want that human male to talk to that human female for whatever karmic reasons. So I introduce the desire of sex into that human male so that he would go approach that human female.

How do you know that desires are not feelings or thoughts introduced into our consciousness by external beings?

Desireless means desiring the less. It is not without desire or it is not to desire the without. We are not this body, the external material we see. We are a spirit like being. It is hard to accept this.

 

Its like this:

Ever watched a movie? You view the main character of the movie and feel very connected with him, yet you observe all these tiny details You observe details of the life of the main character much better then your own life for most people.

When you choose that which is within you, your spirit, and not outside of you, your body, it shall be the first time you have ever felt so connected to your physical life. People think that they must remain in their bodies, they're afraid of loosing it somehow. Like they're afraid of detaching from their mothers. Truth is, you have't been attached to your mother for most of the time you were growing up. Just as you haven't been part of your body and physical life. The fear itself is fake and hilarious once you've gone past the point of realizing that you're not part of this reality. You're part of something much bigger or deeper.

 

When you desire the less, desire to live from within, you shall feel more connected to live then ever before. Every scent of flower is taken in so powerfully that it is ingrained in your mind for ever. You value everything ten thousand times more, for you understand how scarce these things are. You choose to connect to the physical in this life, when you die, you return to being an energy form. Like a ghost. This is how we live from our truest nature. Discard that which is outside of you first, only when you have departed can you return to it more complete. Establish a real connection with life.

 

The connection to live can be found within your spirit, yet people seek it outside of them selves. This leads no where. It is insanity, spiraling around, getting swept by, attaching to this thing we call reality. Let go of it, desire less of it, return to that which is within. Return to spirit and you shall find that you can make a true eternally lasting connection with this physical reality. Accepting that reakity is fake, for most people, means that they return to the spirit which sees the truest nature of reality. Your life becomes more vivid, not less vivid.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Everything

[Everything]

[Everything]

Tao that can be expressed is not Everlasting Tao.

The name that can be named is not the Everlasting Name.

The Name, in its inner aspect, is Life-Spring of Heaven and Earth.

The Name, in its outer aspect, is Mother of all created things.

Therefore:

To perceive the mystery of Life, desire always to reach the innermost.

To perceive the limitations of things, desire always to posses them.

These two aspects of Life are One.

In their out-come they become different in Name but in their depth they are One.

In a depth, still deeper yet, is the Door of many mysteries.

 

In their depth they are one? They are opperating from within the spirit.

 

You see the truth when you reach your inner spirit. The desire to become one with the material trough spirit... Only trough this desire can you truely interact with the boundaries of the physical. The spirit can go deeper aswell, the higher and lower dimensions are infinite. A depth, still deeper yet, is the Door to manifold mysteries. How could they have known such things in ancient times if there were no higher conscious beings? There were no physics and science.

 

What about the flower of life pattern found so early in times? This pattern reveals the multi dimensional reality we live it. It can't be a coincidence that we found this pattern to be part of so many ancient civilizations. Its obviously not just some drawing by some artist. When you're alien and try to communicate with lower conscious beings, the best way is to give them patterns that only time shall allow them to discover the true meaning of the pattern. Only when they reach higher consciousness can they possess technology that is so dangerous.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Everything

[Marblehead]

Where do you live? I love ponds.

 

In Northeast Florida. Built the ponds myself. Nearly all of the back yard is ponds.

[Marblehead]

Desireless means desiring the less. It is not without desire or it is not to desire the without.

 

I agree with you on this.

[Everything]

I agree with you on this.

Then you have known all along? Hehe...

 

It appears that the followers of the Emerald Tablets of Toth follow the same path in comparison to Taoists...

 

"Man's search for understanding of the laws which regulate his life has been unending, yet always just beyond the veil which shields the higher planes from material man's vision the truth has existed, ready to be assimilated by those who enlarge their vision by turning inward, not outward, in their search."

 

The translations of the Emerald Tablets of Toth say the exact same thing in diffrent words as Tao Te Ching teaches us. It is amazing...

 

Have you ever read the Emerald Tablets of Toth? Just curious.

 

Emerald Tablets of Toth, Translation

Edited September 5, 2011 by Everything

[Marblehead]

Then you have known all along? Hehe...

 

It appears that the followers of the Emerald Tablets of Toth follow the same path in comparison to Taoists...

 

"Man's search for understanding of the laws which regulate his life has been unending, yet always just beyond the veil which shields the higher planes from material man's vision the truth has existed, ready to be assimilated by those who enlarge their vision by turning inward, not outward, in their search."

 

The translations of the Emerald Tablets of Toth say the exact same thing in diffrent words as Tao Te Ching teaches us. It is amazing...

 

Have you ever read the Emerald Tablets of Toth? Just curious.

 

Emerald Tablets of Toth, Translation

 

Of course I have known all along. Why do you think I was talking with y'all?

 

No, to my recall I have never read the Emerald Tablets. Thanks for the link. I will try to get to them soon.

[tulku]

Desireless means desiring the less. It is not without desire or it is not to desire the without. We are not this body, the external material we see. We are a spirit like being. It is hard to accept this.

 

Its like this:

Ever watched a movie? You view the main character of the movie and feel very connected with him, yet you observe all these tiny details You observe details of the life of the main character much better then your own life for most people.

When you choose that which is within you, your spirit, and not outside of you, your body, it shall be the first time you have ever felt so connected to your physical life. People think that they must remain in their bodies, they're afraid of loosing it somehow. Like they're afraid of detaching from their mothers. Truth is, you have't been attached to your mother for most of the time you were growing up. Just as you haven't been part of your body and physical life. The fear itself is fake and hilarious once you've gone past the point of realizing that you're not part of this reality. You're part of something much bigger or deeper.

 

When you desire the less, desire to live from within, you shall feel more connected to live then ever before. Every scent of flower is taken in so powerfully that it is ingrained in your mind for ever. You value everything ten thousand times more, for you understand how scarce these things are. You choose to connect to the physical in this life, when you die, you return to being an energy form. Like a ghost. This is how we live from our truest nature. Discard that which is outside of you first, only when you have departed can you return to it more complete. Establish a real connection with life.

 

The connection to live can be found within your spirit, yet people seek it outside of them selves. This leads no where. It is insanity, spiraling around, getting swept by, attaching to this thing we call reality. Let go of it, desire less of it, return to that which is within. Return to spirit and you shall find that you can make a true eternally lasting connection with this physical reality. Accepting that reakity is fake, for most people, means that they return to the spirit which sees the truest nature of reality. Your life becomes more vivid, not less vivid.

 

to have desires of any manner is to have thoughts and thoughts are what's preventing one from entering into samadhi

 

i do not seek the connection to life.. only connection to the void within

 

therefore it is necessary to cut off every and all connections to life and only seek the void within

 

as you said, let go of it.. my question still stands.. how do you remove all your desirous thought-forms?

Edited September 5, 2011 by tulku

[Everything]

to have desires of any manner is to have thoughts and thoughts are what's preventing one from entering into samadhi

 

i do not seek the connection to life.. only connection to the void within

 

therefore it is necessary to cut off every and all connections to life and only seek the void within

 

as you said, let go of it.. my question still stands.. how do you remove all your desirous thought-forms?

What you mean is perhaps the nothingness that initiates the light. The darkness from which light originates. In the psyche this can be seen as the subconscious. This pattern of the underworld can be interpreted in many ways. The void might be an interpretation from the emerald tablets of toth, which speaks of the underworld.

 

I personally think this void does have thoughts, it just lets go of external reality. You become a nothing entity in void space, in complete darkness. It is a gateway. From this place you are initiated into life, to be reborn again. Becoming aware in between the dreams during sleep is the key you seek. Deep sleep is like the void. Here dreams and reality is born. The darkness is followed by images and sounds. The dream arises, you enter the dream world. The goal however is to get lucid during deep sleep, for if you can do that you can initiate yourself into life and you become immortal in a sense. You can enter the dream lucid everytime you sleep.

 

The void is spiritual mastery and the light is material mastery. Or something like that. They're part of each other. Experience them appart from eachother, in their extremes, and you can merge them to form a perfect balance. That you may opperate in this life from the void. Thats the alchemical mechanics.

 

This is just my current thoughts about it. Might be complete BS.

 

This samadhi you speak of might be an interpretation of the Halls of Amenti.

 

 

"A hundred times ten

have I descended the dark way that led into light,

and as many times have I ascended from the

darkness into the light my strength and power renewed."

 

The void, interpreted as deep sleep, is known in science to regenate the body and muscles. Healing. There are many ways to look at it I guess. We all make our own interpretation. I don't know what kind of void you seek. I believe that physical death also plunges you into the void. Perhaps studying darkmatter brings us closer tk the void.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Everything

[C T]

to have desires of any manner is to have thoughts and thoughts are what's preventing one from entering into samadhi

 

i do not seek the connection to life.. only connection to the void within

 

therefore it is necessary to cut off every and all connections to life and only seek the void within

 

as you said, let go of it.. my question still stands.. how do you remove all your desirous thought-forms?

This statement is not in sync with the Buddhist path.

 

In Buddhism there is a distinction made between Nirodha (Cessation) and Nirodha Samapatti (Cessation with attainments aka Correct acquisitions). Nirodha entails cessation, but with the qualifier Samapatti added, then it leads to cessation with result, which basically means there are Right things which one can desire, for example, it is not wrong to desire the right kind of awakening.

 

Not all thoughts are to be discarded, otherwise how can one turn the mind towards the Dharma?

[Aaron]

to have desires of any manner is to have thoughts and thoughts are what's preventing one from entering into samadhi

 

i do not seek the connection to life.. only connection to the void within

 

therefore it is necessary to cut off every and all connections to life and only seek the void within

 

as you said, let go of it.. my question still stands.. how do you remove all your desirous thought-forms?

 

Hello Tulku,

 

The connection to life is the only connection to the void you have, there is no other way to find it. It is only through the life you have been given that you will be able to experience the void. Cutting off your connection to life will not lead you to the void, it is through inspecting life, understand from whence it comes that one can find their way to the void. I have experienced the void, so don't think this is simply abstract theory, but rather from experience.

 

You cannot remove desires, they will arise, the best you can ever do is come to a understand them for what they are. If you begin to live your life in accord with a power greater than yourself, those desires that are harmful will disappear, but also, you can come to know the true nature of where these desires come from, not only from within, but a place beyond that. All things arise from the void, even the light that creates this world. The light itself is not the void, but rather is created by the void. The void is not even the right name for it, because it is not darkness, it is not light, it is not empty, but neither is it full, it is the source from which all things are created. If you are seeking the creator, it is best to start there.

 

Aaron

[tulku]

Hello Tulku,

 

The connection to life is the only connection to the void you have, there is no other way to find it. It is only through the life you have been given that you will be able to experience the void. Cutting off your connection to life will not lead you to the void, it is through inspecting life, understand from whence it comes that one can find their way to the void. I have experienced the void, so don't think this is simply abstract theory, but rather from experience.

 

You cannot remove desires, they will arise, the best you can ever do is come to a

 

understand them for what they are. If you begin to live your life in accord with a power greater than yourself, those desires that are harmful will disappear, but also, you can come to know the true nature of where these desires come from, not only from within, but a place beyond that. All things arise from the void, even the light that creates this world. The light itself is not the void, but rather is created by the void. The void is not even the right name for it, because it is not darkness, it is not light, it is not empty, but neither is it full, it is the source from which all things are created. If you are seeking the creator, it is best to start there.

 

Aaron

 

The only way you can find the connection to the void is through cutting off your connection to life.

 

You say that you have experienced the void yet you can't even find out the true nature behind the energies of desires in this world.

 

I think what you experience is not the void but a delusion of the void.

[tulku]

This statement is not in sync with the Buddhist path.

 

In Buddhism there is a distinction made between Nirodha (Cessation) and Nirodha Samapatti (Cessation with attainments aka Correct acquisitions). Nirodha entails cessation, but with the qualifier Samapatti added, then it leads to cessation with result, which basically means there are Right things which one can desire, for example, it is not wrong to desire the right kind of awakening.

 

Not all thoughts are to be discarded, otherwise how can one turn the mind towards the Dharma?

 

The reason though why I have said that meditations that focus solely on the body and its esoteric structures usually cause problems in the long term; is because these sort of meditations that either push or guide the energies along some sort of predetermined pathway, using visualization to spin this or that channel/orbit, etc.: Actually will prevent someone from reaching samadhi, because the nature of these sort of practices entails engaging the sixth consciousness (either through visualization/mental imaging or focusing on the energy and it's sensations. Which in turn is excessively focusing on the body) that you can't "jump out" of this realm or let go of the idea of being this mind/body. To reach dhyana (especially the formless jhana's) requires that someone lets go of these notions altogether. You can't accomplish this (the exception being Tantra because, after generating the visualization to the point of one-pointed concentration; you then are supposed to completely drop it altogether to "empty out" and achieve samadhi) with these sort of meditations because the nature of them is to constantly engage in mental imaging or clinging to the body and the sensations that chi produces.

[Aaron]

The only way you can find the connection to the void is through cutting off your connection to life.

 

You say that you have experienced the void yet you can't even find out the true nature behind the energies of desires in this world.

 

I think what you experience is not the void but a delusion of the void.

 

Tulku,

 

Quit being so full of hate. I have seen what I have seen, now tell me what you have seen, not read, but seen, then we will continue this conversation. Until then I suggest you chill out.

 

As a famous clown once said, "why so serious?"

 

Aaron

[tulku]

.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Mal
copyrighted material removed

[tulku]

Tulku,

 

Quit being so full of hate. I have seen what I have seen, now tell me what you have seen, not read, but seen, then we will continue this conversation. Until then I suggest you chill out.

 

As a famous clown once said, "why so serious?"

 

Aaron

 

Why don't you tame your desires first before talking to me?

[Jeff]

to have desires of any manner is to have thoughts and thoughts are what's preventing one from entering into samadhi

 

i do not seek the connection to life.. only connection to the void within

 

therefore it is necessary to cut off every and all connections to life and only seek the void within

 

as you said, let go of it.. my question still stands.. how do you remove all your desirous thought-forms?

 

Desires are Ego based projections of past memories into the expectation of the future. Thought forms attach because you give them energy when you focus on them. Energy follows your attention.

 

As you are fully present in the moment (during meditation or life), you "turnoff" the Ego. The key is being in the moment.

 

The first step is connecting with your inner "witness". From the witness state, you can watch the thought forms float by and it makes it easier to feel the energy flow. You may already know this, but in the beginning it is easier to "watch" anger form. With practice, you can even see the energy form at the "pre-intent" phase of the thought.

 

Best wishes on your path.

 

 

 

What is your definition of enlightenment? What do you hope to find in Samadhi?

[Aaron]

Why don't you tame your desires first before talking to me?

 

Because you haven't given me a reason to. You just talk and talk and talk and never listen. If I choose not to talk to you, it's because you have nothing to offer me and you're too thick headed to listen to anything I have to say.

 

If anyone was in need of a good lay, I'd say it was you.

 

Aaron

 

Edit- You know what the pure irony is, I have given up sex, alcohol, drugs, sweets, and most other indulgences, yet I don't see myself as being deprived, nor do I feel the need to exclaim that these things are wrong. You however can't seem to help but go on about it. What do you think that means?

Edited September 6, 2011 by Twinner

[tulku]

Because you haven't given me a reason to. You just talk and talk and talk and never listen. If I choose not to talk to you, it's because you have nothing to offer me and you're too thick headed to listen to anything I have to say.

 

If anyone was in need of a good lay, I'd say it was you.

 

Aaron

 

you can save the good lay for yourself

 

i will be doing the lying mediation instead