Meditation

[ffvii]

How can you tell if you've truly experienced meditation? i think i just did, but i did think about some things and when i had an itch, i itched it, though i don't know if that's relevant or not.

[ffvii]

Also if the purpose of meditation is to clear thoughts, why do i hear people say to meditate on something if that is a thought?

[Aetherous]

If you're meditating on one thing, it's clearing the mind of everything except that thing.

 

It's actually an easier way to begin, and can have some purposes, like dealing with energy and developing various siddhis.

 

My view is that if you're attempting to meditate, you're already meditating...anytime you become aware of awareness or control the mind. OR even anytime you're simply sitting, that is meditation.

[doc benway]

How can you tell if you've truly experienced meditation? i think i just did, but i did think about some things and when i had an itch, i itched it, though i don't know if that's relevant or not.

Meditation is hard to define and describe because there are so many different approaches and methods and because it occupies a realm where words don't matter. And at the same time there is common ground to all meditation. One description of meditation that may help you determine what you're looking for is that it involves awareness without the interference of mental constructs. Thoughts will be there, they come and go, but it's sort of like we step out of the role of being the thinker. It's what occurs between the thoughts and also during the thoughts but there is a dis-identification with the thinker. I don't in any way mean this to sound comprehensive or authoritative. I'm just hoping that helps you along your way.

 

Also if the purpose of meditation is to clear thoughts, why do i hear people say to meditate on something if that is a thought?

I think it's counterproductive to look at the purpose of meditation as clearing the thoughts.

That creates a struggle, a conflict, and guarantees frustration and disappointment.

The idea of meditation is more along the lines of understanding what thought is, where it comes from, seeing through it and what, if anything, lies beyond thought. There are methods that involve thoughts but that is just a stepping stone, a tool. Daoist methods mostly work with using the awareness to interact with the internal environment of the body, mind, and spirit and through that to connect with what is beyond. Buddhist methods are highly varied and involve a host of techniques - mantras, visualizations, internal work similar to Daoists, puzzling over impossible questions (koans), mindfulness practice, and a whole host of others.

 

A consequence of meditation practice is that the mind becomes more tranquil and stabilizes over time with proper practice. Thoughts become less intrusive and less distracting. They cease being the master in a way but thought is a part of the human condition so I wouldn't get too committed to making them go away. Better to pay attention to them, avoid identifying and getting wrapped up in them, avoid adding to them. Just watch - investigate their true nature and source.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

One thing that's been said here recently (maybe someone has the link) which is very helpful for beginning meditators is about 2 polarized states - one being fight or flight, the other being resting and recuperating. In the first state the body puts off recuperation to handle the task(s) at hand, while in the second state the body nourishes itself, circulates blood, minerals, vitamins, even energy through blockages. You can still be thinking about things during the latter state without disrupting it necessarily.

 

I find that suspending thoughts or going beyond the thoughts in the latter state helps to notice the things that are going on in the body.. muscles relaxing, circulation opening up with the relaxation, etc.. The odd thought does not necessarily stop this process.

 

An itch that tenses you up might be better to scratch if you can't override it, allowing the focus to leave the itch or for the itch to work itself out.. It's important to be relaxed for the benefits of meditation to occur.

 

Sometimes the attention might stray and so a thought might be necessary to bring it back to the meditation cushion. You might have a something that you want to work out, like emotional pain or fears.. meditation allows you digest them.

 

It's like when you think about something before you go to sleep and then your dreams give you a resolution. If you have something on your mind when you start to meditate, when you do the things mentioned above, your heart-mind works out the solution without even thinking about it, and by the end of the meditation you feel more balanced with it, like someone you don't know and then you get to know them and feel more at ease for example. These things don't feel like foreign substances in your body any more..

 

Then after you might feel a rosy glow from your face and skin. That's a good sign, but don't get distracted by signs. It's all a part of life. That's something that meditation should be, and also what it should teach us....

[Harmonious Emptiness]

The Way involving yin and yang, meditation is coupled with gong fu.

 

doing things 100% is also meditation..

[Everything]

Also if the purpose of meditation is to clear thoughts, why do i hear people say to meditate on something if that is a thought?

In the first chapter of Tao Te Ching you can read that you should remain without desires to observe the secrets of that which gave birth to heaven and earth. So if remain with desire, you will either see thought or no thought, because you then observe its manifestations. However, you must remain detached and observe without your "self" or ego. Kind of like a scientist does it. He has desires, but does not let his emotions prevent him from witnessing all the secrets beyond his superficial view of reality that caused these emotions. The way to go is, thus, curiosity. Don't take desirelessness to literally either.

 

You should observe that each thought you have is a decision with consequences to your life and that of others. The lessons that can be drawn from each thought is, thus, infinite. With meditation, you do not only look at the thoughts, but without your desireful superficial ego in the way, you actually accept the fact that all thougjts are fake and relative, depending on each other. So you go to the source of all your thoughts; perception of perception of reality. Usually when this stage has beem reached, a wake initiated lucid dream will begin. Some people might also call it an out of body experience, because of the unfamiliarirty of such an experience for those who never had a wake initiated lucid dream. This will increase alertness. These people become aware of there surroundings, and their focus of awareness switches back to perception itself, instead of perception of the perception. This, in turn, causes the wake initiated dream to begin with the idea that one is in his own room. The dreaming world actually does begin in his own room, because of this perception. The thin line between your dreaming paralyzed body and dream body both lying in bed equally causes the side effects that are often associated with the term out of body experience. Such as the believe that one is in bed, holding on to that perception even when you loose the vision, feeling of sensation in your body, smell, sound and taste of being in your bed. The fact that you are in bed becomes emotionally attached to as you go trough this scary unfamiliar experience. When you actually manage to move your dream body, you will see this perception of yours continue to live on simply by noticing that your body is still in bed. You must then conclude that this is an "out of body experience" which is simply not the case. It is an wake initiatied dream that is not yet fully lucid.

 

The goalof such meditation is to train yourself to become lucid to several limiting believes about your reality. When you can do that on the fly, you can change the outcome of certain moments in your life. Switch from struggle to ease, from undecisiveness towarda emmediate and effective action, from doubt and low in faith towards alignment with the unchanging, etc.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Everything

[Miro]

Meditation is related to several more or less related mental activities:

 

1. Intention means focusing the mind on particular object - for our normal life activity we have short-time intention (to look at something) or long-time intention (wish to learn Chinese).

 

2. Concentration means having focused mind on particular object - for example I can concentrate on particular point or place of my body (watching small areas of nostrils when breath is coming in and going out of nostrils) or at external object (flower or picture or point on the opposite wall), the aim is just to focus mind on particular object and nothing more.

 

3. Thinking means logical and systematical construction of thought about particular object.

 

4. Contemplation means to let the mind freely wander around the particular object - it is not thinking because it is not active process, it is rather "letting the object to tell us something", for example: "this flower - green leaves - rounded blades - obvious veins (on the leaf) - fragrant - yellow colour - feeling of beauty" etc. but the mind is always kept on the object, it can not depart like "this flower - green leaves- rounded blades - obvious veins (on the leaf) - fragrant - my girlfriend is fragrant too - I love her" etc.

 

5. Meditation means deeper stages of concentration. Because it contains concentration in its beginning (meditation does not mean empty sitting), it requires effort, strength, tension. However, this effort or strength or tension has to be balanced by relaxation of the body and mind. Therefore meditation is balance of effort (yang) and relaxation (yin). And the most difficult part is to find out where is and keep the correct line between them - too much strength (yang) causes pain, too much relaxation (yin) causes drowsiness and sleepy states... If they are in harmony, practitioner slowly enters deeper states of this harmony - eyes, ears and other senses turns inward, the small breaks of concentrations disappear, practitioner feels something like the world around him ceases, space around him becomes heavy, thick, dense, solid, there exists only object and nothing more. That is where meditation begins, new students usually can not reach that absorption or condensed state of being for a long time (and experienced teacher can see it on their students) but with practice theuy slowly get into it. Still, the normal people usually need around 40 minutes to quiet their body and mind to get into this beginning of meditation. With longer period of practice the students shortens the time necessary to reach this absorption (= entering the meditation) and after long time they can enter it immediately, anywhere, anytime, they just "turn off" their being... Then the more deep states and work come (first feeling the happiness and joy, then eternal bliss, space and cosmos or going out etc. - but also really important thing which is the understanding of necessity to work on oneself in more advanced levels)...

 

That is just views or ideas based on my personal experience, feel free to take what is suitable or change it appropriately to your understanding.

 

Miro

[Miro]

To meditate on something means to take something as object of your meditation. That does not mean thinking or contemplating the particular object, just to choose him as object where to put your intention, to focus your mind, concentrate on it and take it into deeper levels of your being or existence.

[Informer]

How about just to achieve pure awareness? The one that goes beyond mind and ego

[ChiDragon]

How about just to achieve pure awareness? The one that goes beyond mind and ego

 

First, I would think of what do I want to be accomplished when I do meditation. For myself, it was to achieve pure awareness. To a Taoist, the health of the body is the major concern. I've always consider to perform Taoist meditation which involves with Chi Kung is a must. The first thing I do is to find a natural place with an abundance of fresh air. Sit in a zazen position, close my eyes and breathe slowly having the breath go up and down from nostril to my Dan Tian.

 

I use my sense of smell feeling the air to detect any undesirable odor in the air. I use the sense of hearing to listen to the sounds around me. I try to distinguish every little sound from what direction it was coming from and how far away from me. Then, I jumped to the next sound. I can identify a crowd at my left or right; sometimes, I even can tell the bird was flying across my path by its calling sound. I can listen to multi-sounds and distinguish the kind of sound and from which direction they are coming from simultaneously.

 

Those are the natural things that give me the pure awareness in my immediate natural environment. Indeed, when I take a walk around my neighborhood, I can sense the scent in the air knowing who is cooking what by the beefy and onion smell; who is doing their laundry by the bleach odor. I'll hold my breath as soon as I detected an odor of carbon monoxide when a car was passing by.

 

You should be vigilant at all times and be aware what is around you; look straight ahead while walking. So, everything will be under your surveillance. Yes, I would say the purpose of meditation for me is pure awareness.

Edited August 24, 2011 by ChiDragon

[realfastcat]

Also if the purpose of meditation is to clear thoughts, why do i hear people say to meditate on something if that is a thought?

ffvii,

This helped me along my way and it is very easy to understand.

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Meditation-Way-Enlightenment/dp/0804814651

 

The importance of "the breath" is self-evident. We can go weeks without food, days without water, but only mintues without breath. If we regulate our diet, we can improve our health. If we regulate our breath, not only we can improve our overall well-being, but we can build a strong body that is free of diease and illness. We can also use the breath to calms ourselves, raise our spirit, help us meditate, and reunite ourself with the Tao.

Edited August 25, 2011 by realfastcat