Reverse Abdominal Breathing

[Eto]

I've read some conflicting statements about reverse abdominal breathing lately. Dennis Lewis says

 

When the diaphragm moves downward and the belly contracts inward during inhalation, the resulting pressure in the abdomen helps "pack" the breath energy into the abdominal tissues and organs, as well as into the spine. When the diaphragm relaxes upward and the belly relaxes outward during exhalation, the sudden release of pressure guides the energy outward wherever one's attention is directed. It is therefore extremely important when undertaking reverse breathing to be clear about where one puts one's attention.

Otherwise one's energy may be quickly lost.

http://www.breathing.com/articles/reverse-breathing.htm

 

While in the interview with Chunyi Lin here on The tao bums he says that he breathes in the reverse all the time.

 

I have yet to master this method, I've only tried it a few times while meditating, and my experience is that it really helps with qi flow and accumulation, but I find it hard to "switch" over from normal breathing to RAB and back again. It takes some time to get used to breathing like this. It would be cool to be able to do it all the time. Do you even think it's important to breath like this during qigong?

[Bubbles]

What Chunyi Lin does applies to him and his system. Dennis Lewis comes from somewhere else (Healing Tao). Each teacher has his own views about when (if at all) doing RAB.

First things first, you should be very at ease with NAB before doing RAB. And your training should be very progressive during sitting sessions. When doing qigong just follow the instructions of the style you have chosen, it's safer.

Edited August 24, 2011 by bubbles

[joeblast]

try doing it standing, its easier to get the hang of doing it that way.

 

where's the "conflicting" part?

[Eto]

Well, I don't believe Chunyi Lin directs his attention to his dantian all the time and if he does RAB all the time, I don't see why Dennis Lewis would claim it being "extremely important when undertaking reverse breathing to be clear about where one puts one's attention."

 

Anyway, thanks for the replies!

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Try lifting something heavy and you might notice that you do RAD naturally

[ChiDragon]

The difference between the normal abdominal breathing(NAB) and reverse abdominal breathing(RAB) are the nuance of the Taoist and Buddhist styles.

 

The RAB was very common for the Shaolin monks because they do lots of martial arts. If you had noticed when the Shaolin monks do the iron shirt, you will see they took a deep breath and tighten the abdomen muscles inward. That was the procedure to tighten the abdominal muscles to protect the internal organs, simultaneously, holding all the energy in all the muscles. For example, in weight lifting competitions, the performers always have a flat belt around the abdomen was for the same purpose in holding the energy so they can exert a maximum of body strength.

[dawei]

I think Dennis explanation is good:

 

it is traditionally used by chi kung practitioners, healers, and martial artists to help draw energy deep into their tissues and bones, as well as to direct energy--for storage, for action, or for healing--to any part of their organism....

 

When the diaphragm moves downward and the belly contracts inward during inhalation, the resulting pressure in the abdomen helps "pack" the breath energy into the abdominal tissues and organs, as well as into the spine.

 

It also helps to see when the RAB is used with the MCO in the 'fire path' direction, one is truly 'burning' the energy up the spine.

 

There are various concerns to doing it, particularly for some people with certain conditions. I would think that a person would not try to do this often unless there was a specific practice or guidance provided.

Edited August 24, 2011 by dawei

[ChiDragon]

It also helps to see when the RAB is used with the MCO in the 'fire path' direction, one is truly 'burning' the energy up the spine.

 

 

It seems to be contradicting to my native source because a Taoist would like to have the natural flow of Nature. To them, RAB is the opposite of the NAB which is against the course of Nature.

 

Nei Gong is more involved with RAB for the "anal lock" practice.

Edited August 24, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Aetherous]

It seems to be contradicting to my native source because a Taoist would like to have the natural flow of Nature. To them, RAB is the opposite of the NAB which is against the course of Nature.

 

This is a misunderstanding. Reverse breathing increases energy and flow, which is natural. Stagnation and a gut that sticks out is unnatural. More energy and flow = more connection with nature.

 

Natural breathing or reverse breathing...both could be considered equally unnatural in the sense that you're speaking of, because both are deviations of the breathing process due to your consciously guiding it.

 

Reverse breathing is usually called Taoist breathing...natural breathing is sometimes called Buddhist breathing, because it lacks power and is more for calming.

[ChiDragon]

This is a misunderstanding. Reverse breathing increases energy and flow, which is natural. Stagnation and a gut that sticks out is unnatural. More energy and flow = more connection with nature.

 

Natural breathing or reverse breathing...both could be considered equally unnatural in the sense that you're speaking of, because both are deviations of the breathing process due to your consciously guiding it.

 

Reverse breathing is usually called Taoist breathing...natural breathing is sometimes called Buddhist breathing, because it lacks power and is more for calming.

 

Who and where did you learn all these from...??? I that case, I better have my people rewrite everything just for you....

[joeblast]

It seems to be contradicting to my native source because a Taoist would like to have the natural flow of Nature. To them, RAB is the opposite of the NAB which is against the course of Nature.

 

Nei Gong is more involved with RAB for the "anal lock" practice.

the MCO flows in both directions, which is correct? both, spontaneously.

[Aetherous]

I better have my people rewrite everything just for you....

 

Your people? You mean Chinese people? Read Embryonic Breathing by Yang Jwing Ming. He's Chinese. He uses TONS of Chinese sources in that book.

 

If you're talking about your source which you were referring to, you should just find a new one...you're getting false information, which is based on an outsider's perspective.

 

As for myself, I'm not here to qualify my training or experience to you.

[ChiDragon]

the MCO flows in both directions, which is correct? both, spontaneously.

 

According to my source, the MCO flows from the Dan Tian downward around the back; then upward around the head and return by going down in the front to Dan Tian again.

Edited August 24, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

It seems to be contradicting to my native source because a Taoist would like to have the natural flow of Nature. To them, RAB is the opposite of the NAB which is against the course of Nature.

 

Nei Gong is more involved with RAB for the "anal lock" practice.

 

 

According to my source, the MCO flows from the Dan Tian downward around the back; then upward around the head and return by going down in the front to Dan Tian again.

 

The original link provided explains some uses of RAB which can include for healing, energy packing and Qi emission, etc. Ergo, there are practices/trainings which use it outside of martial training.

 

One can use the NAB or RAB in practices with the MCO. The MCO has two directions:

1. Fire Path (Up governing vessel and down conception vessel); regulate emotions and acquired mind.

2. Water Path (Up conception vessel and down governing vessel); regulate spiritual perception and the original mind.

 

RAB is NOT against the course of nature. There are many times when we do it naturally in exercise and in medical conditions.

 

Did you know that we are born with our energy flowing in the water cycle? If that was our 'original nature', when and why does it change?

 

Did you know older ladies naturally change back to the water cycle?

 

You cannot really say something is against the natural flow without defining the meaning better; and also one needs to know that our environment changes our original natures. Some practices seek to restore (or connect with) the original Way. So, should we call it "against nature" if it simply seeks to "return to the source"?

 

I think "against nature" is not a good way of explanation since our nature is probably very far from being the original nature or naturalness.

[Birch]

"Did you know that we are born with our energy flowing in the water cycle? If that was our 'original nature', when and why does it change?

 

Did you know older ladies naturally change back to the water cycle?"

 

That's interesting.

I remember that my MCO was 'running' 'water' path when I started MCO but now it can go both ways, however when I do it, I do it mainly 'fire' path. What, if anything, does this do to a female?

 

Edited to add:

 

Way back at the start, I tried 'RAB' and it hurt like a mfo. So I stopped.

Edited August 25, 2011 by -K-

[dawei]

I remember that my MCO was 'running' 'water' path when I started MCO but now it can go both ways, however when I do it, I do it mainly 'fire' path. What, if anything, does this do to a female?

 

Edited to add:

 

Way back at the start, I tried 'RAB' and it hurt like a mfo. So I stopped.

My understanding is that it can flow both ways and one can practice it both ways. I mentioned above at least one reason each is used; but the fire path will help resolve acquire emotional issues. When I said the fire cycle with the RAB 'burns' the spine... it is burning through (release the blockages of) the stored emotions stuck in the spine.

 

If you are naturally in the water cycle, I would encourage it.

[Maddie]

I would be curious in hearing people's various experiences with doing the MCO originating in the dan tien, and the MCO originating in the testicles aka (testicle breathing/ cool draw). I find both to be useful for different purposes, but the sensation and experience to be slightly different, and was curious if anyone else had any input from personal experience if they have done both?

[zerostao]

According to my source, the MCO flows from the Dan Tian downward around the back; then upward around the head and return by going down in the front to Dan Tian again.

what does your experience tell you? you are in a conversation with folks that do run their mco.

do you ever use RB when you play your taiji quan?

[joeblast]

According to my source, the MCO flows from the Dan Tian downward around the back; then upward around the head and return by going down in the front to Dan Tian again.

does it say which way it doesnt flow?

[Lucky7Strikes]

IME you naturally switch to reverse breathing when your channels begin to open. Breathing becomes much deeper in a relaxed manner than the normal abdominal breathing, which can take some effort to make it deep. It kind of feels like the spine is breathing because the lungs contract. I found that when you put your attention at the solar plexus region and meditate, the breath switches easily. For long periods, my body sometimes does reverse breathing, but thats really when I'm doing a lot of meditation and energy work, so there is a positive correlation.

 

Just 2 cents...

[ChiDragon]

As for myself, I'm not here to qualify my training or experience to you.

 

I'm so glad that you didn't and I thank you very much for that....

[ChiDragon]

what does your experience tell you?

1. you are in a conversation with folks that do run their mco.

2. do you ever use RB when you play your taiji quan?

 

1. No, I'm not in a conversation with folks that do run their MCO. I don't know that many people practice it. I just check in with the Chi Kung site in Hong Kong from time to time. Sometimes, if I have a question, I do a google search on the net.

 

2. In Tai Ji Quan, RB was never mentioned in the practice. As I mention this before, RB is not a Taoist breathing method. Tai Ji Quan was developed by a Taoist. The Shaolin monks and Kung Fu artists were using this method a lot to protect their internal organs.

Edited August 25, 2011 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

does it say which way it doesnt flow?

 

No, It doesn't say because it only flows one way. Actually, there are two meridians, the one in the center of the front of the body is called 任脈(Conception Vessel); and the one in the center of the back is called 督脈(Governor Vessel). The idea was try to have them connected or united together by doing the MCO procedure. I know the description of this procedure but I never really understand what they are saying. But listening to the people who practice it, it seems to me they didn't understand it neither. It was always a mystery to me.

[zerostao]

1. No, I'm not in a conversation with folks that do run their MCO. I don't know that many people practice it. I just check in with the Chi Kung site in Hong Kong from time to time. Sometimes, if I have a question, I do a google search on the net.

 

2. In Tai Ji Quan, RB was never mentioned in the practice. As I mention this before, RB is not a Taoist breathing method. Tai Ji Quan was developed by a Taoist. The Shaolin monks and Kung Fu artists were using this method a lot to protect their internal organs.

ok, i reckon that you are right about being in a conversation.(conversation being a 2 way thing where one listens to(and considers) the experience of those in that conversation) but if you were in a conversation on this thread, you would be conversing with folks who do run their mco. and ones who are sharing from their experience. and trying to share some insight to you so it would not be so much of a mystery to you.

[Birch]

I'd like to add a note about the muscle control that seems to come with MCO.

Prior, I'd never tried flexing any of the muscles around the sacral area. Now I can, and with some amount of precision. I think that this also speaks to something to be discovered about MCO. I've read people can develop Iron Shirt from it. But I figure you'd have to do it with attention pretty much all day to get that?