Immortals (Xian Shi)

[Aetherous]

[gendao]

Early representation of immortals as winged beings walking on clouds and holding a zhi ("numinous mushroom") in their hands.

Source: Nanyang Wenwu yanjiusuo (Nanyang Institute for Cultural Heritage), ed., Nanyang Handai huaxiangbei (Han-dynasty stone reliefs from Nanyang, Hunan), fig. 171 (Beijing: Wenwu chubanshe, 1990).

Note that lingzhi mushroom = reishi mushroom = "supernatural mushroom"

Ling (靈) = spirit

Rishi = Vedic seer

Edited December 10, 2011 by vortex

[flowing hands]

'Immortal' is made up of 'man and mountain'.

 

Traditionally shamans and spiritual masters lived in the mountains. They cultivated the Tao and the creative forces. When these shamans died their spirits lived on and sometimes visited people in person as a spirit or as a person, or showed themselves in dreams. Obviously to me Immortals exist in their spirit guise. See lobby for some of my experiences.

[Aetherous]

lol.

 

[Aetherous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAnpFHU87Og

Edited January 5, 2012 by Scotty

[Lao Tzu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAnpFHU87Og

Who is giving the speech in the video?

He is delivering wrong ideas.

Because in theory of Daoism, body is nothing, it can not going up to the heaven with the spirit.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Lao Tzu

[Aetherous]

Dude, silence thyself! I am reporting you for trolling. All you do is go into every topic, claiming everything is wrong, without sharing about what's actually right. I advise you to change your mode of operation here at this forum.

 

You are not an authority on immortality...and neither is the guy speaking in the video. He admits that.

 

It's a perspective to consider...a possibility.

 

No one can claim to know the mysteries of the Tao without having experienced them first hand...so if you haven't floated to heaven on a cloud, then a bit of open-mindedness and a LOT of silence would do you good.

[Lao Tzu]

Dude, silence thyself! I am reporting you for trolling. All you do is go into every topic, claiming everything is wrong, without sharing about what's actually right. I advise you to change your mode of operation here at this forum.

 

You are not an authority on immortality...and neither is the guy speaking in the video. He admits that.

 

It's a perspective to consider...a possibility.

 

No one can claim to know the mysteries of the Tao without having experienced them first hand...so if you haven't floated to heaven on a cloud, then a bit of open-mindedness and a LOT of silence would do you good.

You mean if I give my reason when I give my opinion, it would be OK?

Otherwise, it is not allowed, right?

[Lao Tzu]

Dude, silence thyself! I am reporting you for trolling. All you do is go into every topic, claiming everything is wrong, without sharing about what's actually right.

That is not true.

If I show you any of my post is not like what you said. What would you do then?

[Aetherous]

You mean if I give my reason when I give my opinion, it would be OK?

 

That would be better, of course.

[Lao Tzu]

By the way, can you teach me how to report? Scotty?

[Zany Heron]

If you follow the Tao, you try to be like Tao.

That's why if you ask a taoist, how old is he / she, he / she won't answer.

Because a taoist have no age. Do Tao have?

If you practice, then you go beyond dualism, your own limits.

 

So... how old are you?

[Chang]

Perhaps our disciplines can lead us to immortality, perhaps not. I would be happy with vibrant health and strength into extreme old age.

Many would state that the whole point of Taoist health arts is to maintain the body so that spiritual development can be continued as we grow older. Is this not sufficient reward for our efforts?

[robaire]

for some reason I wish to type something here.

 

oh yes. the subject ... hmmm .....

 

____________

 

ok, 'we' all know there is "something" here ...

 

yet ... it is more,, much more, than being in the same body,

a long time ... in linear standard time .....

 

so .... what is it, exactly ............?

 

hmmm ............. and why ... exactly?

yin could be ... generally ...

 

 

......... bound by your tradition no matter how nice it is, if it bars you from understanding deeper ...?

 

what is deeper?

 

no stone unturned?

 

this has been changed to reflect a pool of rain.

Edited January 7, 2012 by robaire

[Chang]

so in other words, look into Tibetan Vajrayana, if it helps you to understand the subject better. which it does ... and you're free to remain a Daoist ... or, look into the esoteric Hinduism. etc.

We can indeed look into all of these things and perhaps adopt practices from them. But who makes the most progress, the person who takes a thousand steps in one direction or the person who takes one step in a thousand different directions?

Edited January 6, 2012 by Chang

[Wayfarer]

Do Immortals exist? There are two types of 'Immortal' in Taoism (at least in my experience) they are:

 

1) A belief people have that due to a high level of practice their bodies can stop deteriorating and therefore not die - and the best we often get is evidence of people living over one hundred years.

 

2) That being Immortal has nothing to do with the physical body or the spirit; it simply means that once a person 'awakens' or 'realises the Tao' they understand that nothing is born or dies. The Tao is noticed within us as a settled presence and we start to be aware of it by becoming still however, the same presence is outside of us too and is exactly the same. A person who has noticed this, is awakened and therefore knows that nothing changes, all is permanent because there is only a single holy presence that in itself is neither holy nor present. To not be Immortal is to be ignorant and think that there are 'things' and that they change.

 

Hope this helps!!!

 

Heath

[konchog uma]

do you guys get paid to advertise for greaterhumanpotential.com?

 

cause your posts are really annoying

[MERCELESS ONE]

I was talking about this sort of thing with my training partner today.

I think there are several ways to approach the original question about immortals.

Like in any religion, there are those who take the subject matter literally and those who take it figuratively, allegorically, mythically, and so on.

 

So there are those that believe the Red Sea literally parted like in the Charlton Heston movie and there are those that believe that wine turns into Jesus' blood and bread into his flesh when its consumed. Some believe that shapeshifting entails literally physically transforming into an animal. Some believe in virgins waiting for them in heaven. Others look for scientific explanations or symbolism in such concepts. I find it fascinating that there are those who turn up their nose and scoff at such beliefs in others' traditions but are completely comfortable living in a universe of gratuitous dogma in their own, chosen tradition.

 

So is the question - do you believe literally that there are humans who live on forever as the human being they were when they were born, riding dragons and so on?

 

Personally, I try to avoid belief. Belief means that I accept an explanation for something in the absence of direct experience or evidence. Why bother? For me, I prefer to know or not know. And I have no personal experience of people living beyond 110 years old or so and I've never seen a dragon.

 

On the other hand, through my meditation practice I've made certain personal discoveries about the nature of immortality that are very real and obvious to me. Things that I just know deep down in my bones and heart through direct insight. And it has nothing to do with humans living beyond 130 years.

 

So I do believe in immortality and I study and practice elements of Daoism. In that sense, I do believe in Daoist immortals.

My beliefs are my own and to try and explain them in detail is probably not worth the time and energy right now. Suffice it to say that my beliefs run more toward the symbolic when it comes to mythological descriptions of Daoist Immortals and yet I do have an understanding and belief in immortality that goes beyond the symbolic.

 

When it comes to anthropomorphic deities? Humans with superhuman powers and so forth? Nope, can't say I believe in that concept. No reason to and no personal experience to base such a belief on.

 

all (mythology) came from somthing real, the question is what? how did all cultures even those who never had contact know of dragons? and other thing not yet explained? what i know is "truth is stranger than fiction" thats my quote!

[raimonio]

By far one of the best threads ever

 

What do you guys think brings forth spiritual Immortality? There are so many different views on the matter. Theres the Mantak Chia view, that you must come up with an immortal embryo, on the other hand Michael said in his workshop that when your energy body reaches Dao and merges with it or something like that, then you become Immortal. And now I've read people saying basically that enlightenment = also Immortality.

 

Do you believe that Immortality could simply be a natural outcome of any basic practice taken to a level high enough?

[Thunder_Gooch]

By far one of the best threads ever

 

What do you guys think brings forth spiritual Immortality? There are so many different views on the matter. Theres the Mantak Chia view, that you must come up with an immortal embryo, on the other hand Michael said in his workshop that when your energy body reaches Dao and merges with it or something like that, then you become Immortal. And now I've read people saying basically that enlightenment = also Immortality.

 

Do you believe that Immortality could simply be a natural outcome of any basic practice taken to a level high enough?

 

If you want a qualified opinion on immortality, ask an immortal.

[MERCELESS ONE]

for some reason I wish to type something here.

 

oh yes. the subject ... hmmm .....

 

____________

 

ok, 'we' all know there is "something" here ...

 

yet ... it is more,, much more, than being in the same body,

a long time ... in linear standard time .....

 

so .... what is it, exactly ............?

 

hmmm ............. and why ... exactly?

yin could be ... generally ...

 

 

......... bound by your tradition no matter how nice it is, if it bars you from understanding deeper ...?

 

what is deeper?

 

no stone unturned?

 

this has been changed to reflect a pool of rain.

 

lol, i dont think anyone else gets it!

[MERCELESS ONE]

We can indeed look into all of these things and perhaps adopt practices from them. But who makes the most progress, the person who takes a thousand steps in one direction or the person who takes one step in a thousand different directions?

 

it depends on your goal! ask your self, how many sciences did it take to create a rocket ship? then why would there be only be one way to get to immortality? i would say, take 1000 steps in every direction and take 1000 steps in one direction, the direction of your goal. using all youve learned to get to your goal. in our life time knowledge has been scattered and hidden, you have to find it and put it together. i think people just get tired of taking steps. i dont! because i know what im looking for! and i use everyghing to get to my ultimate goal. just a bit of advice!

 

ps...im almost done building my rocket ship!

[MERCELESS ONE]

there are different levels of immortals because there are different levels of cultivators. some who build up high yang, and some dont. some who mix yin and yang and some dont. and for each there are high and low levels. and all of there philosophies will be different due to their levels of cultivation. so all of you are rite. you all just seem to lack an overall view.

[Imperial]

-Raises hand-

I have a question. O:

 

Assuming if an individual converted all his energy into Yang and attained the highest level of immortality, how will they be able to come back down to this world? If their consciousness are in their energy, how are they able to see, feel, and do the rest of the senses? Since their body is already converted into energy, they won't have the physical parts that a normal human does, like necessary human organs, and nerves. etc. What are you guy's thoughts on this?

[Aetherous]

An explanation could be: the physical world is entirely created by ideas from the spiritual world. The spiritual world is just non-physical...it doesn't mean a heaven necessarily. Think of the physical like clay figures, and spiritual like the clay...spiritual is the same thing, without attributes. Or, look around you, and think about how everything you see is just made up of the same essence, simply in different formations. "Form is emptiness, emptiness is form". Physical is like waves on the ocean, and the ocean itself is like spiritual. The spiritual world is the void, or the Tao.

 

So the physical body is an idea that comes into being...in its current state, having been created, it's like a tent that you've unfolded and opened up to use. When you're done using a tent, you fold it back up into its small parts and carry it hidden in its bag. So the physical simply folds back up into the idea...or your true nature.

 

So if a physical body goes back entirely to Tao, and returns back to physical...it's not like the physical changes to the point of being chaotic. You remain pretty much the same. Because the idea of what you are hasn't changed. You still have blood vessels, etc. If the physical goes partly back, the physical aspect is still functioning as physical.

 

Or maybe, the physical is always physical, and it's only the energy and spirit combined which return to their natural state for periods of time. Maybe if that's the case, and the physical body seems to vanish, it's due to something unknown like the molecules expanding beyond the visible spectrum, but still existing fully as physical.

 

I truly don't know...just some ideas.

 

Also: it's pretty easy to remain in the world. So long as you have the desire to be here, you'll be stuck here...lol.

Edited November 28, 2012 by turtle shell