Immortals (Xian Shi)

[joeblast]

Dont interpret "trance" as something mysterious or detached as in hypnosis. Trance simply equals the phenomena that occur when you have attenuated, to a very significant level, the body's signals - to the point where thought-stream-energy does not manifest. That means basically "shutting off the cranial nerves" - in the absence of CN stimulation, there are much less higher brain resonances as a result of neural firings; the energy potentials are harnessed at a closer-to-root level - so by doing the mind training you are really also learning to harness this "root-core-energy" before it manifests as something.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Dont interpret "trance" as something mysterious or detached as in hypnosis. Trance simply equals the phenomena that occur when you have attenuated, to a very significant level, the body's signals - to the point where thought-stream-energy does not manifest. That means basically "shutting off the cranial nerves" - in the absence of CN stimulation, there are much less higher brain resonances as a result of neural firings; the energy potentials are harnessed at a closer-to-root level - so by doing the mind training you are really also learning to harness this "root-core-energy" before it manifests as something.

 

 

 

Countless different Qigong and meditation exercises exist. All teach the basic idea of using consciousness to go into the emptiness where thoughts ultimately cease or greatly diminish and sensory connections to our bodies fade.

 

-Chunyi Lin (spring forest qigong)

 

 

In the state I have found it possible to work with chi my body is asleep, and my mind is awake. I can see eyes closed and blindfolded even more clearly than in waking consciousness. My mind is straddling the waking and unconscious state. It is only in this in between state that a person can feel, work with, and store chi.

 

It isn't a state where your mind is chattering, you can force verbalized thoughts but it's like being heavily sedated.

 

It is in this state you can focus and feel chi flow strongly in your body.

 

It is this state I have found to be a prerequisite for concentration based meditation.

Edited November 28, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[joeblast]

my hands felt like two balloons

[Thunder_Gooch]

I've had that happen trying to push energy out of my hands, it was quite painful for some time after that.

[joeblast]

It is a stage I pass by on the way down never painful for me, never happened trying to push energy out me hands either!

[Thunder_Gooch]

Are you shifted yet alert?

 

I have no idea what this question means xD

[joeblast]

It means what I was going to clarify on my post of the last page - these are all awareness exercises. I've never liked the 'trance' descriptor because some interpretations of the word seem to be specifically against the notion of maintaining full awareness.

 

1

a half-conscious state, seemingly between sleeping and waking, in which ability to function voluntarily may be suspended.

2.

a dazed or bewildered condition.

3.

a state of complete mental absorption or deep musing.

4.

an unconscious, cataleptic, or hypnotic condition.

5.

Spiritualism. a temporary state in which a medium, with suspension of personal consciousness, is controlled by an intelligence from without and used as a means of communication, as from the dead.

 

 

 

Catalepsy is certainly not a synonym with awareness

[Thunder_Gooch]

As far as I can tell full awareness is not maintained, it is not like normal waking consciousness at all.

 

 

It means what I was going to clarify on my post of the last page - these are all awareness exercises. I've never liked the 'trance' descriptor because some interpretations of the word seem to be specifically against the notion of maintaining full awareness.

 

1

a half-conscious state, seemingly between sleeping and waking, in which ability to function voluntarily may be suspended.

2.

a dazed or bewildered condition.

3.

a state of complete mental absorption or deep musing.

4.

an unconscious, cataleptic, or hypnotic condition.

5.

Spiritualism. a temporary state in which a medium, with suspension of personal consciousness, is controlled by an intelligence from without and used as a means of communication, as from the dead.

 

 

 

Catalepsy is certainly not a synonym with awareness

[zerostao]

I've had that happen trying to push energy out of my hands, it was quite painful for some time after that.

this doesnt sound good, i tried to scroll back to see what it was refering to, but didnt

can you give more details?

[Thunder_Gooch]

http://thetaobums.com/topic/20197-immortals-xian-shi/page__st__128#entry377139

 

Joe mentioned something about balloon hands, and it brought back a memory when I tried to push chi out of my palm and it felt like the veins and arteries and capillaries in my hand became balloons, like the blood was trying to shoot out of my hand. Very painful.

 

this doesnt sound good, i tried to scroll back to see what it was refering to, but didnt

can you give more details?

[zerostao]

are your laogongs open?

edit> and connected to ldt?

2nd edit> you never wanna force energy

3rd edit> qi flows or pulses out the hands easily enuff as long as u r not trying to force it,

never force the breath either

Edited November 28, 2012 by zerostao

[zerostao]

Edited November 28, 2012 by zerostao

[Thunder_Gooch]

I wasn't deep enough into my other body, to recreate an experiment I've successfully demonstrated before.

[Imperial]

Is the process just:

Proper breathing + qigong + meditation throughout one's lifetime?

[Thunder_Gooch]

Is the process just:

Proper breathing + qigong + meditation throughout one's lifetime?

 

To becoming immortal, no it's a lot more complicated than that.

[Aetherous]

It generally is more complicated. The Kunlun school has claimed that all a person needs is 2 or 3 practices (and virtue)...I can attest it works, but to be assured of real immortality...I don't know.

[Imperial]

To becoming immortal, no it's a lot more complicated than that.

Eh~ o:

What else more is there? Is it also the Taoist diet?

[El-ahrairah]

It generally is more complicated. The Kunlun school has claimed that all a person needs is 2 or 3 practices (and virtue)...I can attest it works, but to be assured of real immortality...I don't know.

 

Provided you have the required energy transmission from Max or Kan.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Eh~ o:

What else more is there? Is it also the Taoist diet?

 

Mo Pai is the only system I am aware of that has ever produced immortal spirits (in recent history). John Chang, when he pushes close to the limits of his abilities can sense 10 more people like him alive in China, and no where else on earth.

 

At the very most those 10 individuals could represent 10 seperate schools.

 

 

In Mo Pai there are 72 levels of cultivation, each with a specific meditation. Some can take years to master even with daily training, all day every day. Each level deals with a different chakra, filling with yang energy, compacting/compressing, moving and fusing it with it's yin chakra counterpart, opening energy channels. Imagine building a human body from scratch out of energy.

 

It isn't until level 30+ you are considered a true immortal.

 

And when I talk about meditation it isn't mantra, or visualization, or focusing on the breath or any of that Jazz. It is an extreme and profoundly deep strate of trance/ suspended animation.

 

You can't drink a potion and cast a spell and draw some pictures and chant some incantation or mantra or visualize and become an immortal.

 

These guys sit outside in nature for years to extract the energy required to feed and noursesh their yin and yang spirits, and fuse them together as one.

Edited November 29, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[joeblast]

As far as I can tell full awareness is not maintained, it is not like normal waking consciousness at all.

Certainly not if you equate all of the "normal neural input" with "waking consciousness" - but I've found that even at the deepest depths I've gone, maintaining full awareness, the one pointed concentration...is a must - otherwise forget it, the depth no matter how shallow or deep cannot be sustained.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Certainly not if you equate all of the "normal neural input" with "waking consciousness" - but I've found that even at the deepest depths I've gone, maintaining full awareness, the one pointed concentration...is a must - otherwise forget it, the depth no matter how shallow or deep cannot be sustained.

 

One pointed concentration, yes absolutely critical.

 

It's hard for me to describe an experience to another person. The state I am talking about certainly is not the same as normal waking consciousness though. Deep trance state, and suspended animation are the best words I have to describe it. You are in a deep torpor and your bodies metabolism slows to the point you would be pounced dead by a medical professional. You'll know you are in the correct state when you can see eyes closed and blindfolded. Anything before that level of trance isn't the correct state. Doing one pointed concentration meditation before you are deep enough is exactly the reason no one is able to progress quickly.

 

 

 

“What is actual meditation like?” I asked.

 

“There are no thoughts and there is no sense of time. If you are thinking, you are not in meditation. If you are aware of yourself, you are also not in meditation. You must become like a baby in the womb, there and yet not there. Meditation is like the borderline between sleep and waking, between consciousness and unconsciousness.”

 

Danaos, Kosta The Magus of Java (p. 82)

 

 

 

He poured himself a cup of coffee, and I started laughing; I couldn’t help myself! John Chang, man of contrasts, I thought. This late riser was the same yogi who could stop his heart at will and had once spent eight days in total meditation, hardly breathing, his vital signs so faint a doctor would have pronounced him dead.

 

Danaos, Kosta The Magus of Java (p. 88)

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps in one hour of sitting, he is actually in meditation for 1.3 minutes. That means he is meditating only 2.2 percent of the time, which means that if he sits for one hour a day, he needs ten years of training to get his eighty-one hours of meditation.”

 

Danaos, Kosta The Magus of Java (p. 82)

Edited November 29, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[joeblast]

I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing, bro. I'm sure I havent ceased my heartbeat before Although, I disagree on the one pointed meditation. Its a concept, and if you get it and know how to apply it ("fixing the spirit at the seat of awareness") then that is a crucial component of the whole ball of wax. I think if anything, not applying that technique correctly may be some preventative mechanism, but applying it correctly actually assists you in going deeper. IMHO & experience

 

 

....kinda as I described in post #1 here, third paragraph

Edited November 29, 2012 by joeblast

[Wells]

Mo Pai is the only system I am aware of that has ever produced immortal spirits (in recent history).

 

In Mo Pai there are 72 levels of cultivation, each with a specific meditation. Some can take years to master even with daily training, all day every day. Each level deals with a different chakra, filling with yang energy, compacting/compressing, moving and fusing it with it's yin chakra counterpart, opening energy channels. Imagine building a human body from scratch out of energy.

 

It isn't until level 30+ you are considered a true immortal.

 

So how likely is it for you or anyone of us on this forum to ever get the informations nessecary for all these 30 levels of Mo Pai training that are necessary to achieve Immortality ???

 

As far as I read from Jim, even John Chang is only at level 20 and therefore no Immortal at all, if you have to reach at least level 30!

 

So how reasonable is all the discussion on this forum about Mo Pai?

[Ish]

Each level deals with a different chakra, filling with yang energy, compacting/compressing, moving and fusing it with it's yin chakra counterpart, opening energy channels. Imagine building a human body from scratch out of energy.

 

 

That's assuming a whole lot. Be honest you and no one else here knows anything beyond level 4.

[Ish]

Just reposting from another thread - it's relevant here.

 

"Ish, on 25 November 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

 

From my reading of Heart Drops of Dharmakaya it seems that the highest level of liberation is attaining the complete Jalus before death, with complete resorption of the body.

So they can essentially complete the process and dissolve the body when they want, after this the result sounds very similar to the highest level Taoist immortals, they can appear in any realm as they choose to help beings.

 

So isn't this very similar to the process described in Taoist Yoga? The physical body is either left behind or transmuted.

 

To clarify here's a section from "The Crystal and the Way of Light",

 

Quote

 

A practitioner who manifests this realization cannot really be said to have `died', at all, in the ordinary sense of the word because he or she still remains spontaneously active as a principle of being in a Body of Light. The spontaneous activity of such an individual will be directed for the benefit of others, and he or she is actually visible to someone in a physical body who has sufficient clarity.

 

But a practitioner who perfects and completes the fourth level of the Thodgal visions does not manifest death at all, but while still living gradually becomes invisible to those who have normal karmic vision. This level of realization is called the `Great Transfer', and this is the realization that Padmasambhava and Vimalamitra manifested. Essentially, the realizations of the Great Transfer and the Body of Light are one and the same; the only difference is that those who attain the Great Transfer do not have to go through death in the clinical sense in order to move from manifestation in the material plane to manifestation in the plane of the essence of elements. These two modes of realization are particular to the practice of Dzogchen

 

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. The Crystal and the Way of Light: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen (p. 162). Kindle Edition.

 

 

So if one reaches the 3rd stage of Thogal then they will dissolve into Jalus upon "death", but reaching the 4th level one goes through the Great Transference while alive as described above.

 

Thanks anamatva for recommending this book."