Fortune-Telling and Astrology is a waste of time, energy and money

[tulku]

i notice that you didn't address any of the points i brought up, you just talked about a bunch of vague and nebulous spiritual concepts that you seem to fall back on whenever anyone challenges you. i hope the lessons you bring on yourself with your hardened attitude aren't too cruel.

 

you have a pretty dualistic viewpoint there with all that superior/inferior dialogue. i can't hear you, sorry. i've never heard of anyone evolving beyond oneness with their environment (excepppt, of courrrse, yes tulku to disappear into the void in a nihilistic implosion). how much do you actually know about astrology? or divination? and why, may i ask, would a realized one have a blast watching egos curdle? sounds sick to me... kinda like the dark expression of your own ego

 

im not even going to ask what it means to realize the void, because if you knew yourself, you wouldnt be saying the things you say in the way you say them. so spare me the "if you joined the void you would understand" rhetoric. the void comes for us all, its called death, and im in no rush to "realize" it before its time.

 

so if you respond to this post, spare me the "im so great and others aren't" rhetoric please, and maybe answer the questions about how much you actually know about astrology and divination. thanks.

 

I have already responded to all your points..

 

It is just that you refused to accept the answers..

[tulku]

Cough ... splutter ... damn matey you made me choke on my coffee

 

Me more advanced that you??? Crap dude I think you might need to revise that position

 

I think it was Taomeow who said that the true sign of achievement is what people do at home when noone is watching. The truth is that I am just another bum bumbling along

 

Seeing that I have been brought into it I will share my very uneducated thoughts.

 

Firstly our "birth chart", whether western or eastern astrology, is the harmonic upon which we entered life. It gives us the predispositions of our personalities, it gives us the general vibe of our life's journey.

 

Over in How to handle the unknown I gave a simplified model of the self. In reference to the subject at hand, the features of our Island of the Known is an amalgamation of our astrological predispositions and the matrix of belief that we have formed due to our responses to experience.

 

In the process of self-cultivation, one of the fundamental things to achieve is the integration and harmonisation of our personality ... call it internal Feng Shui. It is about eliminating the energy leakages caused by disfunctional personality behaviors.

 

This is where astrology etc can be a valuable tool because it literally gives us the fundamental template upon which our personality is formed. Empowered by this we can expediate the process of self-integration.

 

Can we "transcend" this template? Well here I will concur with our enthusiastic if not slightly over-zealous tulku, because, as I have been taught, if the practitioner can truly cultivate Xindan (i.e. Golden Elixir) then they can indeed transcend their biological destiny.

 

So whilst transcending the personality is the apex of the mountain, it is working within the realms of the personality that prepares us for ardures of the climb.

 

That fact is also that you can never permanently erase the personality and it is this fundamental template that gives us a practical reference point to make sense of the mystery. We "collapse" the personality to journey into the ineffible, but then we must return to the personality, or the known, to ground out our experiences of the unknown within the practicalities of everyday life.

 

As the Zen saying goes:

 

Before enlightenment, cut wood carry water.

After enlightenment, cut wood carry water.

 

So tulku is both right and wrong. To focus too much on astrology etc is to get too caught up in the known. But to ignore it is to wastefully cast away a powerful tool that can help us on our journey.

 

astrology can only point out the positive and negative energies of the planets/houses/i-ching/whatever you are born with..

 

but it does not show all the positive and negative energies inherent in your soul..

once you evolve your soul to a high enough level, you can learn to draw our the energies inherent in the Pure Consciousness through your soul to override the energies of the planets..

[konchog uma]

KAP

 

 

NOT cheerleading

 

thanks!

[konchog uma]

I have already responded to all your points..

 

thanks for the comic relief. but you actually didn't.

 

It is just that you refused to accept the answers..

 

like the answers to the questions "how much do you actually know about astrology and divination?"

[konchog uma]

 

once you evolve your soul to a high enough level, you can learn to draw our the energies inherent in the Pure Consciousness through your soul to override the energies of the planets..

 

once you evolve your soul to a high enough level, you lose your incredible sense of self-importance and become able to interact with others without insulting them by insinuating that they are inferior.

[tulku]

once you evolve your soul to a high enough level, you lose your incredible sense of self-importance and become able to interact with others without insulting them by insinuating that they are inferior.

 

i am not that important..

 

but.. the masses are indeed inferior to the masters who have achieved samadhi.. this is an undeniable fact..

 

however.. there is nothing to prevent the masses from evolving to levels of consciousness possessed by past and present masters.. if the masses only dare to make the required sacrifices..

[Birch]

i am not that important..

 

but.. the masses are indeed inferior to the masters who have achieved samadhi.. this is an undeniable fact..

 

however.. there is nothing to prevent the masses from evolving to levels of consciousness possessed by past and present masters.. if the masses only dare to make the required sacrifices..

 

" if the masses only dare to make the required sacrifices.. "

 

Now I'm not quite so sure that it 'goes' that way. Probably goes both. I don't think attending to folks as 'masses' (which BTW seems to be a relatively recent invention:-)) is going to help anyone much. Neither the 'masses' reading this and identifying as such, nor yourself who seems to see all those others as 'masses'. The latter is pure invention, IMO. I haven't met any 'masses' and I have no idea who they are. Except as fiction, of course :-)

[Stigweard]

astrology can only point out the positive and negative energies of the planets/houses/i-ching/whatever you are born with..

 

but it does not show all the positive and negative energies inherent in your soul..

once you evolve your soul to a high enough level, you can learn to draw our the energies inherent in the Pure Consciousness through your soul to override the energies of the planets..

Matey you are assuming there is "somewhere" outside of nature. It seems you are hell-bent on trying to claw yourself "outta here".

 

I appreciate that you are basing your views on a different ontology, but why are you trying to do this??

 

[Mal]

and become able to interact with others without insulting them by insinuating that they are inferior.

 

I hope so to as tulku's posts @ Michael were IMO quite insulting

 

the masses are indeed inferior to the masters who have achieved samadhi.. this is an undeniable fact..

 

Perhaps.... but those masters don’t seem to phrase it like that.

 

Before KAP I was particularly pleased with loving kindness meditation, once I was convinced to try it. It’s a practice that I still enjoy and find beneficial.

 

Anyhow re: fortune telling , I read this yesterday in Dao and De

 

“Some fortune tellers have some intuitive abilities, but some are just cheating”

 

and I think Stig got it with

 

So tulku is both right and wrong. To focus too much on astrology etc is to get too caught up in the known. But to ignore it is to wastefully cast away a powerful tool that can help us on our journey.

 

As I use to dismiss astrology as “just that rubbish in the paper” which was a mistake..

[konchog uma]

[konchog uma]

i am not that important..

 

do tell

 

but.. the masses are indeed inferior to the masters who have achieved samadhi.. this is an undeniable fact..

 

you sound prejudiced. you sound like a spiritual elitist. i can deny that fact, so therefore it is a deniable fact. you sound attached to samadhi. actually, you sound attached to *idea* of samadhi. you sound a million miles away from any kind of samadhi.

 

however.. there is nothing to prevent the masses from evolving to levels of consciousness possessed by past and present masters.. if the masses only dare to make the required sacrifices..

 

whatever. you sound pompous. i'll ask a third and last time: how much do you actually know about astrology and divination?

[Stigweard]

there have always been common linkages between different spiritual traditions .. the most important common thread is to reach permanent samadhi..

 

advice from someone who hasn't reach permanent samadhi?

 

better look in the mirror, old man..

 

for all your years on this earth, you have wasted your life learning and doing stuff which are unimportant..

 

i pity you mate.. your eyes were closed and are still closed..

 

if you ego hurts at the thought of being lower than those masters who have achieved permanent samadhi, then that's too bad..

 

the medicine of truth tastes really bad but it heals all in the end..

Just saw this ... with this one post you have completely invalidated all your other assertions of superiority.

 

[tulku]

Matey you are assuming there is "somewhere" outside of nature. It seems you are hell-bent on trying to claw yourself "outta here".

 

I appreciate that you are basing your views on a different ontology, but why are you trying to do this??

 

 

Because it is our destiny, the destiny of humankind, to fly and even claw ourselves "outta here" ..

 

we were never meant to simply procreate and die off like insignificant insects..

[Mal]

An insect may appear insignificant, but it's actually a vital part of the ecosystem

 

And so as not to poke tulku too much and to stay a bit on topic

Entomomancy

Divination by the appearance of actions of insects. To this may be referred the various omens of popular folklore, such as crickets bringing good luck, and ladybirds indicating visitors.

Also, here we may note the old superstition of the death-watch. Recorded since at least the 17th century, this was a clicking or ticking noise like that of a watch, which was believed to portend the death of someone in the house within the next twelve hours. It was for many years unknown exactly what it was that produced the noise, however, it was eventually discovered to be a certain beetle that made the sound, apparently its mating call, by striking its head against a hard surface.

 

The ancient Greeks had numerous beliefs about portentious insects. Ants were meant to have presaged the death of Cimon, and, also, the great wealth of Midas was foretold by ants coming to him as a boy while asleep and dropping grains of wheat into his mouth.

 

According to Potter, bees "were esteemed an omen of future eloquence", and he cites the well-known story of Plato, who, as a baby in the cradle was visited by a swarm of bees which alighted on his lips, thereby predicting his gift of oratory. Obviously this is playing on the idea of words as sweet as honey, mellifluous speech. In fact Plato was known later as the Athenian Bee. An identical tale is told of St. Ambrose.

 

The most obvious insect related to fortune telling would, however, have to be the mantis. This is the ancient Greek name for the insect, and, is identically the same as the word mantis meaning, a diviner. According to Suidas this insect was a type of slow, green, locust. It had long, thin fore-feet, and was possibly, though not necessarily, the same as our praying mantis, though exactly what insect it was is unknown. Apparently it was observed for divinatory purposes. Unfortunately not a lot more is known about it and why it deserved its name. Our modern praying mantis is so-called from the prayer-like attitude of the front-legs, but this is only a modern appellation, dating back to the 17th century.

 

This word is quite uncommon, and is not recorded in OED or other dictionaries. It quite probably was invented quite recently, as the sole citation suggests. From Greek entomos an insect.

 

 

1983 Complete Bk Predictions 142: Entomomancy Predicting from the appearance and behavior of insects.

 

 

So it seems I’m a disciple of praying diviner kung fu

[Stigweard]

Because it is our destiny, the destiny of humankind, to fly and even claw ourselves "outta here" ..

 

we were never meant to simply procreate and die off like insignificant insects..

Well happy flying my friend, just watch when you get closer the sun...

 

[Mal]

Personally I feel that investigating things like fortune telling and astrology yourself is the best approach.

 

When getting help from another person, obviously the quality of the assistance will vary

 

I was taught white lighting at a psychic expo yet I'm sure there were also "psychics" there doing this.

 

[Vmarco]

[Vmarco]

 

the purpose of holistic astrology is to move to the point at the center of the circle, to reconcile the paradoxes of ones life and overcome their obstacles in a graceful way.

 

People seldom consider that the way of ascension is the reverse of the descension,...which is ultimately the split out of Undivided Light.

 

Before birth, one's "chart" is simply a point on a piece of paper. At the first breath, a line is drawn horizontally to the left, and represents the rising of one's life relative to the Sun's position. From this line at the first breath, a mid-heaven is known, and a circle, with its divisions can be plotted, and planets posited. In other words, as Anamatva mentioned,...in holistic astrology, we can follow the vibrations back to the point,...our Unborn Awareness.

 

V

[Vmarco]

i notice that you didn't address any of the points i brought up, you just talked about a bunch of vague and nebulous spiritual concepts that you seem to fall back on whenever anyone challenges you. i

 

That appears to be a common occurance on this forum. However, I very much enjoyed your insights, like "suggesting that these systems lose their effectiveness as one arrives at this state of permanent samadhi, that you are constantly cramming down people's throats, is ridiculous. thats like saying that if water were to realize its true nature, it wouldn't be affected by the moon."

 

It would be great to be part of a thread in which there was no ad homenim,...where the honest communion would be welcomed.

 

V

[Birch]

I'm pretty interested in astrology. I had a Bazi reading from TaoMeow and it was not only about "the way i am" which was more of an analysis of the various tendencies that interact to make "me" but also how to become a more well-rounded balanced me by avoiding certain things and embracing others.

So there's signposts about your incarnation while at the same time you can understand the fabric of the whole.

I think that's pretty neat:-)

[konchog uma]

That appears to be a common occurance on this forum. However, I very much enjoyed your insights, like "suggesting that these systems lose their effectiveness as one arrives at this state of permanent samadhi, that you are constantly cramming down people's throats, is ridiculous. thats like saying that if water were to realize its true nature, it wouldn't be affected by the moon."

 

It would be great to be part of a thread in which there was no ad homenim,...where the honest communion would be welcomed.

 

V

 

i tried talking to him once before and i knew i shouldn't have done it twice. live and learn. my higher self is now singing "told you so, told you so" at me.

 

yes it would be great to be part of a world without ad hominem arguments. since thats probably too much to ask, i would settle for a single thread too.