Fortune-Telling and Astrology is a waste of time, energy and money

[tulku]

.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Mal
copyrighted material removed

[tulku]

.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Mal
copyrighted material removed

[tulku]

The absolute mind is above coming and going, high or low, rank or class, cause and effect. So if you want to be beyond fate and destiny, you must cultivate to reach this original nature, our shared “fundamental face.” If you succeed, you succeed in the goal of all the religious strivings and become a “real man” who is in control of their own destiny.

 

To thelerner Michael and other forummers but especially to TheLerner,

 

If there is anything you will ever learn or had learnt in your life, learn this..

 

the only "real man" or the only "complete human" is one who has cultivated to become one with the original nature permanently and thus gained complete personal control of his or her own destiny

 

humans who had not yet attain permanent synthesis with their original nature due to the indulgence of their senses are subnormal humans

Edited August 25, 2011 by tulku

[Aetherous]

The absolute mind is above coming and going, high or low, rank or class, cause and effect.

 

humans who had not yet attain permanent synthesis with their original nature due to the indulgence of their senses are subnormal humans

 

More than a bit contradictory...

 

...

 

By the way, I agree. Fortune telling and astrology are bogus. And karma is in your own hands...it's all about choice in each moment.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Scotty

[tulku]

More than a bit contradictory...

 

...

 

By the way, I agree. Fortune telling and astrology are bogus. And karma is in your own hands...it's all about choice in each moment.

 

I always did say that I am still a subnormal human just like 99.9999999999999% of the masses out there.

 

Because I have not achieved permanent samadhi yet.

[Stigweard]

humans who had not yet attain permanent synthesis with their original nature due to the indulgence of their senses are subnormal humans

Same could be said for the person who tries to push their truth on other people. Mostly people do this when they feel insecure in their own beliefs and need other people to agree to make the feel more secure. If you were truly free of ego you would not feel the need to do this.

 

[tulku]

Same could be said for the person who tries to push their truth on other people. Mostly people do this when they feel insecure in their own beliefs and need other people to agree to make the feel more secure. If you were truly free of ego you would not feel the need to do this.

 

 

I am not pushing anything onto anyone.

 

I am merely testing my own understanding of the truths(information) which I have gathered over the years from different people who have earned my trust and see how these different truths (information) tie together.

[tulku]

[Birch]

I dunno. I think "fortune telling" and "astrology" might be helpful introspective tools for some people.

As for the position of stars at birth, I'd dig a bit more into that. To do with cimate and daylight hours and influence on human development. Probably not very useful anymore if folks are gestated and born in temperature-controlled places and artificial light though.

 

My 2 cts is to look at the "weird" stuff and consider what the purpose was (or if we don't know, make some guesses) and then find ways to test the guesses.

 

Anyway, I find Fox News just as useful as the horoscope.

[mYTHmAKER]

More than a bit contradictory...

 

...

 

By the way, I agree. Fortune telling and astrology are bogus. And karma is in your own hands...it's all about choice in each moment.

 

Astrology used properly makes one aware of their choices / possibilities.

Nothing is fixed in stone.

[tulku]

[Lucky7Strikes]

So these quotes are from Autobiography of a Yogi. You need to cite this, because the views of Yogananda may be different from the views of Nan Huai Chin. You have to let people have their own perspective by citing the original authors rather than hand selecting quotes you like and titling it in an extreme way, like "waste of time, energy, money" (which is not what Yogananda is saying at all. That quote is there in context of the cyclical nature of time and maya and the use of astrology to help one in cultivation. So you actually read it totally...wrong).

[Adishakti]

When you are on the path, fortune-telling, astrology and all other forms of divination are 'sign-posts'. You can use them to your advantage or disadvantage, or not use them at all. It's all relative. One shouldn't depend on these, but there is no harm in some guidance in the beginning.

 

It's also true that once you are on the Path because of meditation and because you choose to be more responsible for your action by being a good human, donations etc. you are changing your predestined Karma .

 

But do not undermine divination tools. If someone comes to you to tell you that a certain aspect in your chart or the tarot needs your attention, you then take it as a sign that the message was intended to come to you. In that case you focus on the apple and satiating you hunger, instead of which tree and why.

 

And besides divination is a gift, and a bigger gift to be able to use it without ones ego coming in the way.

[tulku]

When you are on the path, fortune-telling, astrology and all other forms of divination are 'sign-posts'. You can use them to your advantage or disadvantage, or not use them at all. It's all relative. One shouldn't depend on these, but there is no harm in some guidance in the beginning.

 

It's also true that once you are on the Path because of meditation and because you choose to be more responsible for your action by being a good human, donations etc. you are changing your predestined Karma .

 

But do not undermine divination tools. If someone comes to you to tell you that a certain aspect in your chart or the tarot needs your attention, you then take it as a sign that the message was intended to come to you. In that case you focus on the apple and satiating you hunger, instead of which tree and why.

 

And besides divination is a gift, and a bigger gift to be able to use it without ones ego coming in the way.

 

There are some cultures and some countries in the world who are extremely obsessed with astrological charts and fortune telling.

 

I have always had this weird feeling that astrological charts are incomplete in one manner or another.

 

Now i finally understand why as if a huge light had been switched on.

 

Astrological charts are only meant to provide you with the current situation at hand. But the current situation can be changed by tapping into the forces of the universe and it is always changing.

 

It is not unlike a time traveller traveling to the past and being presented with a current scenario in the future if nothing changed. However, if that time traveller does something even as simple as sneezing, then the future might be completely different.

[C T]

I think it wont be that different... just an extra sneeze added, that's all. Or is that supposed to be significant?

[C T]

extra sneeze...

Edited August 25, 2011 by CowTao

[thelerner]

[tulku]

You should understand Tulku, I don't see you as experienced or learned. You strike me as a kid with wonderful enthusiasm, and I hope can channel that into a worthwhile practice. But right now, you'll full of Sh%* and (**(&)&!. You have passion and a fundamentalists outlook with all the vigor to proselytize and enlighten the masses.

 

Have you noticed the dozens of negative replies to your posts? Many who read find them lacking. And this is a group of experienced people, most of the bums, like me have years, in most circumstances decades of practice.

 

You like to use words like 'only' because you see Only one way(fundamentlist?). When you gain experience and meet people (living people you can converse with) from different traditions you'll see there's more then one way. The world is full of 'real' men who have nothing to do with your definition.

 

I find most of your posts start out with a faulty assumption, treat it like its fact then builds a house of cards. You do it over and over again.

 

 

I'm not sure why I fit into your rant on Fortune Telling. Personally I'm pretty skeptical. Still, I've met some very advanced people who believe. People who Are more advanced then me (like TaoMeow, Stigweard, You Tulku I consider young brash..) they believe, they use it; Out of my considerable respect for them, I keep an open mind.

 

Do I have any use for fortune telling, no. I prefer to take my fortune as it comes. I'll never be a god, but I can be a good poker player and deal skillfully with the cards the tao gives me.

 

 

I'll give you advice. If you want to learn about becoming a real man, consider joining the KAP classes taught by Santiago (he posts here sometimes). His system comes from many sources including Glenn Morris. He'll teach things that aren't philosophical, but they're Real, Real breath work, energy work, body work. It's cheap and he has skype classes with live feedback.

 

Taking the course will get you out of you head, away from philosophy for a while. Get you into your body, physical and energetic. Real stuff. There was a time I was philosophical and 'Brain' heavy. Its not good. Great thoughts don't move beans.

 

I realize that me mentioning it will be a complete turn off for you. It shouldn't be; I guarantee what you learn there will help you in your goal of samadhi. For a good viewpoint go to the Personal Practice section on the bums and look at Mal's experience with it.

 

KAP will ground you in some solid basics + that can make the mental stuff real.

 

 

my 2 cents

 

there have always been common linkages between different spiritual traditions .. the most important common thread is to reach permanent samadhi..

 

advice from someone who hasn't reach permanent samadhi?

 

better look in the mirror, old man..

 

for all your years on this earth, you have wasted your life learning and doing stuff which are unimportant..

 

i pity you mate.. your eyes were closed and are still closed..

 

if you ego hurts at the thought of being lower than those masters who have achieved permanent samadhi, then that's too bad..

 

the medicine of truth tastes really bad but it heals all in the end..

Edited August 25, 2011 by tulku

[konchog uma]

Think of it in this way: an astrological chart is a picture of the ego and its karma, and when the ego thins through meditation and one lets go of the ego by cultivating samadhi, astrological charts become less relevant because you are freeing yourself from any identification with them. For instance, if you meditate on an ideal you gradually acquire its nature, but if through meditation you mentally let go of the phenomenal realm to reach the true Source essence and become identified with all of space and time, you are no longer identified with any one chart. How can birth and death or any phenomenal principles rule you?

 

as much as my higher self is screaming "dont engage him, DONT engage him" i find myself typing in your general direction. how strange. however i realize that this post is not directed at you, so don't feel compelled to blast me with negativity in response. let me save you the time. "oh anamatva you ignorant child if only you were in a state of permanent samadhi you would know that i am right and everyone else is wrong". there now that THATs out of the way, this post is for everyone else, lest they be swayed by your flimsy arguments.

 

the purpose of holistic astrology is to move to the point at the center of the circle, to reconcile the paradoxes of ones life and overcome their obstacles in a graceful way. at the end of the journey and the beginning of the next journey, one does not identify with any particular sign or set of aspects, but with all signs and aspects as they manifest themselves. in this way one unifies inner and outer and learns to flow gracefully with the progression of time. how taoist!

 

and the purpose of the i ching, and of systems like runes or tarot, is so much deeper than "telling fortunes" that i am not even going to BEGIN to engage tulku on those subjects, except to suggest that he actually study subjects before he mouths off about them. thank you. i will point out however that many systems of fortune telling funtion as maps of the psyche, and of the archetypes of lifes situations, and guides along the path. they aren't bogus because tulku says so, they are valid because microcosm reflects macrocosm and reality seems to be holographic and fractal in its nature. so one can gain realization into situations and natures of self and events by using these systems.

 

@ tulku: so many countless thousands of people have grown and been helped by astrology and divinatory systems, that the tree is simply to be known by its fruit. both are beneficial and give people good meditation material and signposts along the difficult path of life. if there was no value in them, i don't suppose that cultures across the entire face of the planet would codify their unique systems of astrology as they evolved, and i definitely don't suppose that there would be concordant data to be found amongst the systems from unrelated cultures. but they did. and there is. so again, know a tree by its fruit.

 

furthermore, suggesting that these systems lose their effectiveness as one arrives at this state of permanent samadhi, that you are constantly cramming down people's throats, is ridiculous. thats like saying that if water were to realize its true nature, it wouldn't be affected by the moon. maybe the great and small reflect each other Because of the same oneness that is evident to all the sages who actually have achieved a state of divine concentration. maybe you are just being needlessly negative and spreading lies about practices that heal and help people.

 

good luck with your life, you seem really angry and negative. i pray for your peace.

[tulku]

as much as my higher self is screaming "dont engage him, DONT engage him" i find myself typing in your general direction. how strange. however i realize that this post is not directed at you, so don't feel compelled to blast me with negativity in response. let me save you the time. "oh anamatva you ignorant child if only you were in a state of permanent samadhi you would know that i am right and everyone else is wrong". there now that THATs out of the way, this post is for everyone else, lest they be swayed by your flimsy arguments.

 

the purpose of holistic astrology is to move to the point at the center of the circle, to reconcile the paradoxes of ones life and overcome their obstacles in a graceful way. at the end of the journey and the beginning of the next journey, one does not identify with any particular sign or set of aspects, but with all signs and aspects as they manifest themselves. in this way one unifies inner and outer and learns to flow gracefully with the progression of time. how taoist!

 

and the purpose of the i ching, and of systems like runes or tarot, is so much deeper than "telling fortunes" that i am not even going to BEGIN to engage tulku on those subjects, except to suggest that he actually study subjects before he mouths off about them. thank you. i will point out however that many systems of fortune telling funtion as maps of the psyche, and of the archetypes of lifes situations, and guides along the path. they aren't bogus because tulku says so, they are valid because microcosm reflects macrocosm and reality seems to be holographic and fractal in its nature. so one can gain realization into situations and natures of self and events by using these systems.

 

@ tulku: so many countless thousands of people have grown and been helped by astrology and divinatory systems, that the tree is simply to be known by its fruit. both are beneficial and give people good meditation material and signposts along the difficult path of life. if there was no value in them, i don't suppose that cultures across the entire face of the planet would codify their unique systems of astrology as they evolved, and i definitely don't suppose that there would be concordant data to be found amongst the systems from unrelated cultures. but they did. and there is. so again, know a tree by its fruit.

 

furthermore, suggesting that these systems lose their effectiveness as one arrives at this state of permanent samadhi, that you are constantly cramming down people's throats, is ridiculous. thats like saying that if water were to realize its true nature, it wouldn't be affected by the moon. maybe the great and small reflect each other Because of the same oneness that is evident to all the sages who actually have achieved a state of divine concentration. maybe you are just being needlessly negative and spreading lies about practices that heal and help people.

 

good luck with your life, you seem really angry and negative. i pray for your peace.

 

LOL. Only weak humans and weak souls are bound by astrological charts.

 

The truly strong and powerful humans/souls evolve beyond the petty limitations of astrology.

 

Only weak humans/souls cannot handle the greatness and significance of the true potential of humankind.. that it is our destiny to become gods.

 

The truly strong and powerful humans/souls accept the fact that humans can become gods as easily as breathing air.

 

A water that realized its true nature wouldn't be affected by the moon. Of course it wouldn't be as a truly realized water would have turned itself into the Primordial Void.

 

Angry? Negative? I am having a blast at watching how the human egos in this forum curdle up.

[tulku]

Good point.

 

Please cite your quotes, mr. tulku.

 

Thank you kindly.

 

BODRI

[konchog uma]

LOL. Only weak humans and weak souls are bound by astrological charts.

 

The truly strong and powerful humans/souls evolve beyond the petty limitations of astrology.

 

Only weak humans/souls cannot handle the greatness and significance of the true potential of humankind.. that it is our destiny to become gods.

 

The truly strong and powerful humans/souls accept the fact that humans can become gods as easily as breathing air.

 

A water that realized its true nature wouldn't be affected by the moon. Of course it wouldn't be as a truly realized water would have turned itself into the Primordial Void.

 

Angry? Negative? I am having a blast at watching how the human egos in this forum curdle up.

 

i notice that you didn't address any of the points i brought up, you just talked about a bunch of vague and nebulous spiritual concepts that you seem to fall back on whenever anyone challenges you. i hope the lessons you bring on yourself with your hardened attitude aren't too cruel.

 

you have a pretty dualistic viewpoint there with all that superior/inferior dialogue. i can't hear you, sorry. i've never heard of anyone evolving beyond oneness with their environment (excepppt, of courrrse, yes tulku to disappear into the void in a nihilistic implosion). how much do you actually know about astrology? or divination? and why, may i ask, would a realized one have a blast watching egos curdle? sounds sick to me... kinda like the dark expression of your own ego

 

im not even going to ask what it means to realize the void, because if you knew yourself, you wouldnt be saying the things you say in the way you say them. so spare me the "if you joined the void you would understand" rhetoric. the void comes for us all, its called death, and im in no rush to "realize" it before its time.

 

so if you respond to this post, spare me the "im so great and others aren't" rhetoric please, and maybe answer the questions about how much you actually know about astrology and divination. thanks.

Edited August 26, 2011 by anamatva

[konchog uma]

 

KAP will ground you in some solid basics + that can make the mental stuff real.

 

 

bless your soul for trying

 

whats KAP? can i look that up online?

[Birch]

KAP

 

 

NOT cheerleading

[Stigweard]

I'm not sure why I fit into your rant on Fortune Telling. Personally I'm pretty skeptical. Still, I've met some very advanced people who believe. People who Are more advanced then me (like TaoMeow, Stigweard, You Tulku I consider young brash..) they believe, they use it; Out of my considerable respect for them, I keep an open mind.

Cough ... splutter ... damn matey you made me choke on my coffee

 

Me more advanced that you??? Crap dude I think you might need to revise that position

 

I think it was Taomeow who said that the true sign of achievement is what people do at home when noone is watching. The truth is that I am just another bum bumbling along

 

Seeing that I have been brought into it I will share my very uneducated thoughts.

 

Firstly our "birth chart", whether western or eastern astrology, is the harmonic upon which we entered life. It gives us the predispositions of our personalities, it gives us the general vibe of our life's journey.

 

Over in How to handle the unknown I gave a simplified model of the self. In reference to the subject at hand, the features of our Island of the Known is an amalgamation of our astrological predispositions and the matrix of belief that we have formed due to our responses to experience.

 

In the process of self-cultivation, one of the fundamental things to achieve is the integration and harmonisation of our personality ... call it internal Feng Shui. It is about eliminating the energy leakages caused by disfunctional personality behaviors.

 

This is where astrology etc can be a valuable tool because it literally gives us the fundamental template upon which our personality is formed. Empowered by this we can expediate the process of self-integration.

 

Can we "transcend" this template? Well here I will concur with our enthusiastic if not slightly over-zealous tulku, because, as I have been taught, if the practitioner can truly cultivate Xindan (i.e. Golden Elixir) then they can indeed transcend their biological destiny.

 

So whilst transcending the personality is the apex of the mountain, it is working within the realms of the personality that prepares us for ardures of the climb.

 

That fact is also that you can never permanently erase the personality and it is this fundamental template that gives us a practical reference point to make sense of the mystery. We "collapse" the personality to journey into the ineffible, but then we must return to the personality, or the known, to ground out our experiences of the unknown within the practicalities of everyday life.

 

As the Zen saying goes:

 

Before enlightenment, cut wood carry water.

After enlightenment, cut wood carry water.

 

So tulku is both right and wrong. To focus too much on astrology etc is to get too caught up in the known. But to ignore it is to wastefully cast away a powerful tool that can help us on our journey.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Stigweard