do you have to be a zen master to be successful with women?

[Non]

Confidence and being "super happy" are not the same thing. Do the "bad boys" who get women all the time walk around with an idiot smile on their face? No.

 

 

 

Quite easily. They are obsessed with water. No one can deny that. And I don't think a person obsessed with water would get all pissy if you called him "water obsessed".

 

 

 

The harder you try, the more likely you will fail.

 

A lot like zen, I guess.

 

 

 

Yeah. The issue isn't whether or not you are lonely. The issue is whether you project that on to people you meet. If you project that loneliness on to people and expect them to save you, or to let them drink from their well, they are going to be put off. People have their own problems without having some freeloader coming around asking for handouts. They don't want to be around that person. Don't be that freeloader.

 

 

 

So eveyone who is deprived to you is a freeloader.

 

ok. Next tiem one of your family is starving and asking for food because he/she cannot get any food call them obsessed if you like. See how that person handles it.

 

Go ahead and call everyone in the world who is dying and suffering obsessed.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Non

[Ish]

No I doubt most women would like a zen master. Zen master won't indulge in bullshit or flattery. Why would a zen master go out looking for sex or for women who are only interested in good looks or money?

He's not reliant on other people.

 

You really need to stop this suicide crap. Forget about other people for a while, become confident for YOURSELF, does it feel good to YOU to be indimidated by women?? Ask yourself what you REALLY want. If all you want is to get laid with some girls at a club sure go ahead and build up your muscles, get nice clothes, get confident and beef up your ego but don't complain about it on a forum.

If you want to actually meet a girl for a relationship maybe go to some clubs/activities that YOU enjoy, and meet some like minded people!

 

If you are going to commit suicide why not just go and do anything you want instead, you literally have nothing to lose.

[Non]

No I doubt most women would like a zen master. Zen master won't indulge in bullshit or flattery. Why would a zen master go out looking for sex or for women who are only interested in good looks or money?

He's not reliant on other people.

 

You really need to stop this suicide crap. Forget about other people for a while, become confident for YOURSELF, does it feel good to YOU to be indimidated by women?? Ask yourself what you REALLY want. If all you want is to get laid with some girls at a club sure go ahead and build up your muscles, get nice clothes, get confident and beef up your ego but don't complain about it on a forum.

If you want to actually meet a girl for a relationship maybe go to some clubs/activities that YOU enjoy, and meet some like minded people!

 

If you are going to commit suicide why not just go and do anything you want instead, you literally have nothing to lose.

 

I can't. I'm already in such a lonely, deprived, socially awkward state that I can't even be normally social like everyone else can to "meet likeminded people" etc. It's a never ending vicious cycle. The universe operates on killing those who are weak and strengthening those who are already strong. Giving to those who already have enough and taking from those who don't have enough.

 

People are biologically dependent on relationships it's just the way it is. Just like food, or water. When an organ in the body is no longer functional the whole system of the body becomes dysfunctional. That person needs soemthing to replace that organ otherwise he/she will die. You can't expect a person who is on his last breath, to travel the world looking for his next breath on the edge of death. And not only that to be a confident zen master, or a faker.

 

Expecting a person to magically become a zen master when he/she is already caught up in the disasters of life is like trying to teach a dead person live.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Non

[Sloppy Zhang]

I dont beelieve in the 'fake it till you make it' doctrine. Why? People once a person finds out you were faking it,then what?

 

Well that depends on how you play it

 

Faking it because you thought she was naive enough that you had to fake it?

 

That's projecting on your part.

 

She might be incredibly impressed that you were able to pull off such a stunt. She might not even believe that you WERE faking it, and are just lying about that

 

Besides, you cannot fake anything. It's impossible to fake.

 

Bullshit!

 

And don't forget that in any performance (such as, I dunno, "faking" it 'till you don't have to fake anymore), it is a two way street- the receiver has to buy it. And never underestimate peoples' ability to buy into whatever is being put out (especially if the giver is giving off no cues that it's not genuine). Never underestimate peoples' ability to take things at face value.

 

And for God's sake, Non, NEVER project your own doubts and insecurities on to other people! Just because you look at people and think "this person is being nice, there's no way they like me for me, they must be using me, they must be shallow, they must expect me to conform to conventions of XYZ", in NO WAY means that other people are doing that to you!!!

[Ish]

I can't. I'm already in such a lonely, deprived, socially awkward state that I can't even be normally social like everyone else can to "meet likeminded people" etc. It's a never ending vicious cycle. The universe operates on killing those who are weak and strengthening those who are already strong. Giving to those who already have enough and taking from those who don't have enough.

 

People are biologically dependent on relationships it's just the way it is. Just like food, or water. When an organ in the body is no longer functional the whole system of the body becomes dysfunctional. That person needs soemthing to replace that organ otherwise he/she will die. You can't expect a person who is on his last breath, to travel the world looking for his next breath on the edge of death. And not only that to be a confident zen master, or a faker.

 

Expecting a person to magically become a zen master when he/she is already caught up in the disasters of life is like trying to teach a dead person live.

 

Saying that being in a relationship is necessary is complete bullshit. You've just made this up. Stop being so dramatic, you have access to all these arts that can change you COMPLETELY. Have you gone to any masters? I know for a FACT that genuine qigong/nei kung/meditation can change you into a better person. Not a faker with fake confidence, but real confidence and happiness.

Seriously you are smart enough to ponder on all these aspects of society and write longwinded posts, how about you spend some time on self improvement, not intellectually masturbating about how bad you are.

[Sloppy Zhang]

So eveyone who is deprived to you is a freeloader.

 

Never said that. Go back and read again.

 

People who are in an emotionally stable (read that again: emotionally "stable", not necessarily "healthy") are wary of people who are emotionally unbalanced (in this case, you) because they start to fear that you will come in and unbalance them. If you project an air of confidence and emotional balance (true or not) they will be less wary of you, and more open to you.

 

Go ahead and call everyone in the world who is dying and suffering obsessed.

 

Well that's what they are. Attention whores are obsessed with attention, and want all eyes on them. Desperate loners are obsessed with the interpersonal communication and physical contact that they are unable to receive. Starving people are obsessed with the food they can't get. That's what it is. That's just an observation of the state. If you want to attach extra connotative meanings to the word "desperate", that's your issue, just keep in mind: it's just another instance of you projecting.

 

 

Why would a zen master go out looking for sex or for women who are only interested in good looks or money?

He's not reliant on other people.

 

Exactly. And it's for that very reason that I'm pretty sure a zen master would be more successful with people (and women) without even trying than Non is, for the exact reason that the zen master wouldn't even be trying. It would just happen. Or not happen. Ironically, that's why it would happen.

[Non]

Saying that being in a relationship is necessary is complete bullshit. You've just made this up. Stop being so dramatic, you have access to all these arts that can change you COMPLETELY. Have you gone to any masters? I know for a FACT that genuine qigong/nei kung/meditation can change you into a better person. Not a faker with fake confidence, but real confidence and happiness.

Seriously you are smart enough to ponder on all these aspects of society and write longwinded posts, how about you spend some time on self improvement, not intellectually masturbating about how bad you are.

 

 

I'm just saying there has been research which shows lonely people are at a much greater health risk than people who have significant others or are successful with the opposite sex.

 

In fact there is a chemical deficiency in people who aren't socio-sexually successful, which does not let them even begin to become successful and that's why it's so hard for them, simply because people to make an outcast of these people. Not to mention the lack of skills that has to be learned through experience, a person without such experience and therefore skills cannot even begin to develop simply because people are expected to already have enough experience and skills to gain more skills and experience.

 

So there's virtually no place or way a person such as this can get out of such a paradox or vicious cycle.

 

It's like.. you're weak from deprivation, and to get what you need you have to go through an obstacle course you have no way of getting through because you are in effect disabled from doing so.

 

A beta male can become an alpha, but an omega is a lot worse than a beta male. There is probably something even worse than omega. It's all discrimination.

 

I guess one also has to be a zen master to be beyond such discrimination.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Non

[Ish]

I'm just saying there has been research which shows lonely people are at a much greater health risk than people who have significant others or are successful with the opposite sex.

 

In fact there is a chemical deficiency in people who aren't socio-sexually successful, which does not let them even begin to become successful and that's why it's so hard for them, simply because people to make an outcast of these people.

 

Just because you are alone doesn't mean you are lonely. If you practice genuine energy and spiritual cultivation you won't be lonely even when alone.

 

We have the internet, there are masters here on this forum. Many people have given testimonials about their excellent results. Put some serious time and effort into this and im 100% sure you WILL improve yourself.

[Sloppy Zhang]

A beta male can become an alpha, but an omega is a lot worse than a beta male.

 

Here we see the disconnect in your thinking process, and I'm pointing it out to you so you can see your own contradictions-

 

A beta can become an alpha, but you do not even consider the possibility of omega becoming a beta, which, in turn, can become an alpha. You just say that "omega is a lot worse than a beta" and leave it at that.

 

You can change.

[Aetherous]

Those damn zen masters always cock-blocking us...

 

Anyway this one zen master once told me the following. If you want a woman in your life just:

Have a job where you earn decent money.

Have your own car.

Learn how to cook well.

 

That's it! So easy.

 

Those are the three criticals, then the rest is:

Live outside of your parent's house.

Be in a cool band (where you play live shows), have a cool job (like a firefighter), or else at least a cool hobby (like skateboarding or something).

Workout so your body is at least not unattractive.

Grooming is important, so you don't have dirty long toenails or something. Shower often.

Dress a little bit above average (for instance, wear a polo when other guys are wearing scrubby t-shirts, etc).

 

The list can go on, but basically get these things down in your lifestyle and it will help you to become that zen master who gets all the ladies. Then an important point for you personally, Non....

 

Stop sabotaging yourself by having negative thoughts. Such as, all girls only like certain guys and not me...etc. If you go out on a date I can imagine you testing a girl with all of this pointless bullshit, and it will most likely cause her to run away from you. If you let go of this baggage, then there's no reason for her to run away. Just have a fun time with girls...if you're not having fun, find a different girl.

 

And just try to enjoy yourself in this life, as others have said. Do things for your own benefit. That's what is most important. Girls come and go, but you and your happiness remain. Your choices and actions remain...so be good and have fun, regardless of anything.

[Non]

Those damn zen masters always cock-blocking us...

 

Anyway this one zen master once told me the following. If you want a woman in your life just:

Have a job where you earn decent money.

Have your own car.

Learn how to cook well.

 

That's it! So easy.

 

Those are the three criticals, then the rest is:

Live outside of your parent's house.

Be in a cool band (where you play live shows), have a cool job (like a firefighter), or else at least a cool hobby (like skateboarding or something).

Workout so your body is at least not unattractive.

Grooming is important, so you don't have dirty long toenails or something. Shower often.

Dress a little bit above average (for instance, wear a polo when other guys are wearing scrubby t-shirts, etc).

 

The list can go on, but basically get these things down in your lifestyle and it will help you to become that zen master who gets all the ladies.

 

The list will never end.

[Aetherous]

A beta male can become an alpha, but an omega is a lot worse than a beta male.

 

Actually it depends. In some circles, and in common usage for ranking between humans, "omega male" usually means a guy that's actually better than an alpha. Alpha male, at least in my experience, is typically used as an insult...whereas omega male is kind of like an alpha male, without any of the negative associations.

 

See some different defintions in common usage here:

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=omega%20male&defid=2516988

[Aetherous]

The list will never end.

 

It could end right there! You don't have to be perfect...the girls definitely aren't!

[Mal]

I think-

 

Have a job where you earn decent money (responsible) and have your own car (independence)

or a career you are passionate about (devotion)

 

ie being responsible and having independence or total devotion is enough to overcome all the other obstetrical. All I had was a job and a car when I moved out from home to live together, we met at Uni.

 

please shut me up.

 

while that often ends up happening the intent is to help so since you have been away did you try talking to a girl?

 

My partner got approached by a guy practicing his pick up's at Uni (She is back doing yet another degree)

All he said was "I'm looking for a friend"

 

He was at the refectory, so there were a lot of girls he could ask during lunchtime. They just sat down and talked. She wouldn't give her number but did give him an email. He was a PHD student so he talked about his course and what she was studying.

 

While I can't say how he felt after, she was really happy that someone approached her, concerned that he had no friends she wanted to help him.

i.e. she enjoyed the conversation too.

 

Real World Example.

[Cat Pillar]

Yes.

 

 

 

Nope!

 

The point is, you can discuss forever.. or let it go and enjoy. Either way doesn't matter!

 

John

 

Answers like these used to bother me. They seem much more reasonable these days.

 

----------------------------------------------

 

 

Vmarco,

 

By life I mean being a human being. Is it precious to live as a human?

 

I'm pretty aware of impermanence. The only constant is change.

 

I agree with you for the most part about compassion. I don't know of a bodhisattva's compassion, because I have not experienced it nor am I bodhisattva...but I do agree that a lot of people seem to have made unskillful conceptual associations with the term "compassion."

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

James,

 

Thank you for the elaborated response. I'm not sure I agree that love = sacrifice, although I do think that acting out of love can sometimes result in sacrifice.

[alexandrov]

Quote

In fact there is a chemical deficiency in people who aren't socio-sexually successful, which does not let them even begin to become successful and that's why it's so hard for them, simply because people to make an outcast of these people. Not to mention the lack of skills that has to be learned through experience, a person without such experience and therefore skills cannot even begin to develop simply because people are expected to already have enough experience and skills to gain more skills and experience.

 

ok non  I have had similar life experiences as you have, and in fact I agree with a lot of what you say. and up until a few months ago I was horrible with women my whole life. I didnt have the social skills, confidence or anything to get laid. In fact the scant few women that came into my life before the past few months came to me I didnt approach them. And they all had emotional problems. Im an average looking guy, im short and I dont have muscles, in fact im skinny, and I dont make much money. I live at home with my family.

 

In the past few months I started randomly approaching women, and in the beginning used PUA advice on body launguage, openers, etc etc. Now I dont need to use them anymore because by doing hundreds and hundreds of random approaches I now have developed absolutely booming confidence and a set of my own customized skills that match my own unique personality. A lot of PUA stuff is bullshit, manipulative, or just plain wrong in my view, but some of it can be very helpful in the beginning to get you started. In the beginning it was one of the hardest things I had ever done. The first month of random approaches was almost traumatizingly scary. My heart would be racing, when I would talk to women Id be stuttering, many would simply walk away before i could say much (still happens), it was painful. Now I have the approach down and im working on first date skills, its tough and painful because ive had over thirty dates this year and I only still talk to like 2 of these girls, and not even very often. Sometimes its hard not to think of myself as some sort of a failure, or having some major deficiency. But now because of my growth It does not really effect me much because i know if i keep going i will get it, and if i got this far so can you.

 

Since I never really had dates my whole life I am in the process of learning how to do them just like i slowly and painfully learned how to approach. In fact im so good at approaching now I can approach almost any woman with very little fear, and amazingly i can do approaches that 90% of guys I know cant. And the only reason I can do this is because i practiced it. my rejection rate is still high but i can get about 1 in 7 numbers on cold approaches. With cold approaches however it should be understood that sucess rates are usually low no matter how good you are. In fact I have some friends that in high school got all the girls and played football and are powerlifters and my approach confidence and skills are better then theirs believe it or not, even though they get laid way way more then me!

 

my advice to you is get on a PUA forum, meet a wing and go out and do random approaches. You will never look back TRUST ME. It will be very hard in the beginning and each day youll have to drag yourself out to do it, but please just do it. I was in the same position as you sitting in my room going on and on about theories that may or may not be correct. But in the end only practice will help you, trust me because i can tell by the way you write that we have very similar conditions.

Edited May 24, 2020 by alexandrov

[alexandrov]

while that often ends up happening the intent is to help so since you have been away did you try talking to a girl?

 

My partner got approached by a guy practicing his pick up's at Uni (She is back doing yet another degree)

All he said was "I'm looking for a friend"

 

He was at the refectory, so there were a lot of girls he could ask during lunchtime. They just sat down and talked. She wouldn't give her number but did give him an email. He was a PHD student so he talked about his course and what she was studying.

 

While I can't say how he felt after, she was really happy that someone approached her, concerned that he had no friends she wanted to help him.

i.e. she enjoyed the conversation too.

 

Real World Example.

 

stuff like this happens to me all the time, a lot of girls wont give their numbers, and a lot of times even if they do they wont respond, again its a cold approach so you cant expect all too much to come of it, but its a great way to train if you need the training or have women problems

[tulku]

I can't. I'm already in such a lonely, deprived, socially awkward state that I can't even be normally social like everyone else can to "meet likeminded people" etc. It's a never ending vicious cycle. The universe operates on killing those who are weak and strengthening those who are already strong. Giving to those who already have enough and taking from those who don't have enough.

 

People are biologically dependent on relationships it's just the way it is. Just like food, or water. When an organ in the body is no longer functional the whole system of the body becomes dysfunctional. That person needs soemthing to replace that organ otherwise he/she will die. You can't expect a person who is on his last breath, to travel the world looking for his next breath on the edge of death. And not only that to be a confident zen master, or a faker.

 

Expecting a person to magically become a zen master when he/she is already caught up in the disasters of life is like trying to teach a dead person live.

 

This is because zen masters are independent of relationships, women, food and all those type of materialistic rubbish.

 

You on the other hand are still very much biologically dependent.

[Adishakti]

Good list.

 

 

Those damn zen masters always cock-blocking us...

 

Anyway this one zen master once told me the following. If you want a woman in your life just:

Have a job where you earn decent money.

Have your own car.

Learn how to cook well.

 

That's it! So easy.

 

Those are the three criticals, then the rest is:

Live outside of your parent's house.

Be in a cool band (where you play live shows), have a cool job (like a firefighter), or else at least a cool hobby (like skateboarding or something).

Workout so your body is at least not unattractive.

Grooming is important, so you don't have dirty long toenails or something. Shower often.

Dress a little bit above average (for instance, wear a polo when other guys are wearing scrubby t-shirts, etc).

 

 

Add patience and the ability to keep your mouth closed.

 

Men require a lot of patience if they have to feel grounded, as women are gifted with a lot of emotions she can easily make a man not sure enough about himself feel the ground below him move. So stay quite - let her speak, scream, or play the quite game. Just hold her when she allows you in her territory again. Overtime with your support she'll display lesser negative emotions.

 

Another important point for a man is to be grounded navel downwards. Root Chakra corresponds to owning Land (house), Sex Chakra to having a faithful partner and navel to the ability to feed oneself, so food. These three things in place and a man will be pretty well grounded.

 

And a well grounded man is pretty successful with women.

 

Edited August 29, 2011 by Adishakti

[Sinan]

I went from shy and awkward with women..to getting what I want

 

Work on your beliefs- Look at Byron Katies "The work" on youtube, Combine that with Emotional Freedom Techniques, The sedona method and maybe affirmations.

 

Have a lifestyle filled with hobbies you enjoy. Eg Yoga, Tai Chi, Going to the park.

 

Everyday do things your scared of, push your comfort zone, slowly over time your comfort zone will be ridiculous.

 

Express yourself, speak your mind. Although there is a difference between a wuss expressing their mind and a "zen master." While your developing expressing yourself helps you to heal.

 

Go out to a lot of parties..see how men interact with women, talk to a lot of women..You learn what not to say, You see how your becoming more confident.

 

Do a lot of Yoga, Trauma release exercises by David Borcelli,Pilates and various forms of tai chi. This is good for posture and muscle relaxation, when your around people and your standing and walking relaxed and confident you become very attractive.

Exercise frequently, Wear good clothes,

 

Have self esteem, all related to beliefs but also things like investigating codependency and toxic shame.

 

Just like anything. You probably wont change overnight, it takes time but it definately will happen.

 

Good luck

Edited August 29, 2011 by Sinan

[Non]

blah. (not to you) I dont know what parties are.

 

I have never in my life been to a party that is with peers or people in my age group. I've never been invited, and in fact never knew how to get myself "included".

 

And I don't feel too comfortable with clubs/bars. Especially since I don't mix well with the styles of music which only serve to further reaffirm material attachments.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Non

[Non]

Whatever. most people reading this will probably just think I'm pathetic. I'm being honest.. I'm very different from most people.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Non

[Sinan]

blah. (not to you) I dont know what parties are.

 

I have never in my life been to a party that is with peers or people in my age group. I've never been invited, and in fact never knew how to get myself "included".

 

And I don't feel too comfortable with clubs/bars. Especially since I don't mix well with the styles of music which only serve to further reaffirm material attachments.

 

 

Thats fine I definately didnt start out comfortable with parties...Just start where your at and slowly tweak your confidence. Youll find doing scary things a thrill just dont kill yourself.

 

Just say Hi to the guy at the shop, have a chat, work on your beliefs, smile at people, overtime things will gradually develop.

 

 

Also when it comes to beliefs this is key..Heres some negative beliefs.

 

People wont like me because Im fat

People dont like me because Im smart

I will never get a girlfriend because I dont have a car

I am not someone with massive muscles therefore I can never have a girlfriend.

I need to be earning 30,000 a year before I can have a girlfriend.

 

See how these beliefs are utter crap that limit people. Often its not just the beliefs we pick up from our environment, But by changing beliefs we change the way we act slowly which changes the way people act towards us.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Sinan

[Birch]

Go on a forum where lots of women complain about their lack of success with men. You might find some very similar things going on.

I think people want to meet each other but somehow they've convinced themselves of all kinds of BS about it.

I think.

My 2 cts

[Aetherous]

You might find some very similar things going on.

 

I was going to question this, but then I realized that statements like "men are the gateway to hell" are actually pretty common.