do you have to be a zen master to be successful with women?

[Non]

Go on a forum where lots of women complain about their lack of success with men. You might find some very similar things going on.

I think people want to meet each other but somehow they've convinced themselves of all kinds of BS about it.

I think.

My 2 cts

 

well.. I guess it's true. Whatever comes to mind, of course related to sex, is a complaint about how all men are dogs, only care about sex, etc. Which might be true but do they understand that some men are just deprived, of not just sex, but "love" and it's the way it is rationalized? But then they just throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

So men complain about too little opportunities with women. Women complain about too many opportunities, and not enough "real love".

 

I'm sure there's more but that's usually a big one. Of course there's a lot more.

 

haha, at the risk of making it seem like this is the ONLY one I think about because it's the only one that I'm concerned with lol.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Non

[Birch]

well.. I guess it's true. Whatever comes to mind, of course related to sex, is a complaint about how all men are dogs, only care about sex, etc. Which might be true but do they understand that some men are just deprived, of not just sex, but "love" and it's the way it is rationalized? But then they just throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

So men complain about too little opportunities with women. Women complain about too many opportunities, and not enough "real love".

 

I'm sure there's more but that's usually a big one. Of course there's a lot more.

 

haha, at the risk of making it seem like this is the ONLY one I think about because it's the only one that I'm concerned with lol.

 

I reckon it's worth getting into. I guess to understand each other. In fact, one of the reasons I LOVE TTB's is because the guys on here are very open about love and sex (and of course the rest:-)) so I found it helped me to appreciate them (the men) more than if I had just hung out with a bunch of frustrated women (which I don't, but you get the idea :-)) Also, my practices seriously jigged my "2nd chakra" (back) into shape and as a result I finally felt like I could empathize with men who have their sex drive going through the roof and nowhere to put it (so to speak ). So I guess that brought me closer to men too.

[alexandrov]

non i really think you should take into account what i have said

it requires only doing one thing...approaching women

no matter what condition your in you can still do it

if you go in stuttering and squirming it does not matter

thats what i did initially

approach women going in knowing your gona fuck up, you have nothing to loose

eventually youll become less afraid and your confidence will grow

even if you fail every time, you will see that some women will stop to talk to you esp as you get better

your not different from everybody

i hate parties and night life

i hate a lot of music too

i approach women wherever i am, when im at places i LIKE going to

[thelerner]

Non, the truth is- your problems run deep. They're by no means unique, they're similar to what many of us here have faced but..deeper. We bums aren't the most macho alphas in the pack. But you are an unhappy place with thoughts that circle like buzzards.

 

Find professional help. The right counselor will work wonders. They can turn your life around, track your progress, suggest a new course while listening deeply to your inner being.

 

I've seen a psychologist and it was invaluable. There is no magic bullet, idea or insight, but there is working on yourself. The hard work of discarding garbage thoughts. Find a good counselor, stay with them for a while, turn your life around.

 

my 2 bits

[Sloppy Zhang]

Non, the truth is- your problems run deep. They're by no means unique, they're similar to what many of us here have faced but..deeper. We bums aren't the most macho alphas in the pack. But you are an unhappy place with thoughts that circle like buzzards.

 

Find professional help. The right counselor will work wonders. They can turn your life around, track your progress, suggest a new course while listening deeply to your inner being.

 

I've seen a psychologist and it was invaluable. There is no magic bullet, idea or insight, but there is working on yourself. The hard work of discarding garbage thoughts. Find a good counselor, stay with them for a while, turn your life around.

 

my 2 bits

 

Yes, this, a thousand times, this.

 

Especially this:

 

There is no magic bullet, idea or insight, but there is working on yourself. The hard work of discarding garbage thoughts.

 

It's easy to look at stuff like "insight" schools and tell yourself the fairy tale that one day a single thought will happen and lead to enlightenment. I don't know anything about enlightenment, but I do know about negative, self reproducing thought patterns. One bad thought feeds bad thought #2, which feeds bad thought #1, which feeds bad thought #2. You can never escape, because #1 always leads to #2, and #2 always leads to #1.

 

Sometimes you can see the problem on your own... and sometimes you are so stuck in the middle that you don't have the proper perspective, and you need a third party to say "um.... look at this".

 

A third party, in person helper will be able to stay with you and keep you accountable. It seems like it's too easy for you to gloss over posts in these threads. That doesn't help at all.

 

 

 

Furthermore, with regards to general gender stuff, one of the thing those gender threads got me into reading a lot of was some pretty radical feminist stuff. I found it disturbing the number of women who had been sexually assaulted or raped by people close to them, even as children, and that was shaping their view of men and how men run the world (basically, if you can't fuck it, kill it, then kill whatever you're through fucking). It was as 100% in their eyes as your thoughts about women are 100% true from your perspective and experience.

 

I dunno. I'd rather leave it at that than attempt to turn it into some Buddhist-esque take on the nature of suffering and blah blah blah. Someone else can take it from here

Edited August 31, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Enishi]

Problems attracting women can indeed be part of much deeper issues I think. Even once you start having success in dating the problems are not necessarily gone. One perspective you can adopt is that you simply have much deeper challenges to work through in your current lifetime. Thus, any side issues like problems with women don't mean you're some inferior beta, it just means you have more on your plate.

 

Great difficulties can actually lead to deeper awareness over time. The men you might see having success now with "hot" girls at the club may end up broke and disillusioned down the road, while you are only getting happier.

[freeform]

Self esteem.

 

It's composed of two things - Confidence and Competence.

 

Confidence is the belief that you can do something.

 

Competence is the actual ability to do something.

 

 

An amateur boxer can be hugely confident - he truly believes he can knock out any oponent. But if his competence lags behind, he can get into a ring and be quickly beaten.

 

Another boxer can be hugely competent - he has truly honed his skills and is an effective fighter. But if his confidence is too low, he can get into the ring and be scared off by a confident oponent.

 

Self esteem is a gradual process - it's the leapfrogging of confidence then competence. You believe that you can get a good grade (cofidence) - so you study and work hard to have that happen (competence).

 

The key is to over-reach slightly with your confidence - believe that you're slightly better than you are - then let competence catch up and take over... then again build confidence and believe you're slightly better than that - and again let competence catch up and overtake it.

 

In Non's case - you seem to be more competent than confident. So for you it's a case of having a little bit of confidence (over-reaching slightly - not massively). Confidence, by it's nature is 'faking it'. It's a belief - a mental construct. So 'a lack' of confidence is as much faking it as over-cofidence is.

 

If you over-reach slightly, and actually put it into practice you will notice your competence will grow... as it grows you take another step with your confidence and again go out and put it into practice and competence will catch up. There is no magic bullet as Thelerner mentioned - it's a case of consistent, step by step progress.

 

Alexandrov has displayed this perfectly. He aknowledged where he was at (terrible with women, nervous about walking up and talking to them etc.) and knowing that, and expecting nothing more he went out and put it into action - approaching women, being nervous, shy etc... but as he did it more and more he noticed himself improving - his competence went up... which raised his confidence... which raised his competence... which raised his confidence etc - it's a viscious cycle to increasing your self esteem - and it's applicable to learning an instrument as well as to socialising.

 

Now personally doing 'cold approaches' is not for me - and it might not be for you. Being able to connect to other humans and have an interaction is a skill applicable to all areas of life. So instead of approaching women to try and get their number or a kiss or sex, why not make it into an ability to connect with people.

 

You could start out with just smiling to someone passing by and holding eye contact. Once you gain competence there, you could start saying hello, then you could actually say more than hello, then you could crack a joke, then you could actually ask them for something (the time, directions, whether they know of a good bookshop, where they grew up as a child etc etc)...

 

Simple, small steps. You will see that once you start taking these tiny steps it becomes very easy. You'll find yourself making conversation with people - connecting with them and becoming curious about them. And little by little this will extend into the more romantic aspects of your life.

 

You say you've not much experience with women. But then you claim to know exactly what they want and intend... Let me tell you that you're limiting yourself and half the world's population - yes some women like rich, 'succesful', muscly men... but some women really dislike that - they like depth, creativity and sensitivity in a man. It's a huge falacy that women don't like shy guys - an honest, unedited shyness is hugely endearing. And as long as you can also display a level of self-esteem, it's actually very attractive. I've had a number of attractive, intelligent and interesting girlfriends who actually avoided 'alpha males'.

 

I understand that you get to feel 'special' by having all these seemingly unsolvable problems - but just consider the possibility that you're holding onto these problems - and they're actually serving you in some way (making you feel special and different, keeping you from potential painful situations and emotions, keeping you in your comfort zone). Just bare that in mind, and every time you notice yourself sabotaging or holding back from making progress, notice that in some way you're protecting yourself...

 

You have been given many solutions that have worked for people in your situation, so now it's a case of applying them. Of course you'll have reservations or disagreements, or objections, or hold-ups, or just procrastination - and no matter how logical, real and important they all seem, they're just protection mechanisms designed to keep you from progressing and growing - your mind will have all maner of clever ways to hold you back - and if for any reason you're held back in any way, know that it's your mind's way of trying to protect you from the unknown.

 

 

[Birch]

Problems attracting women can indeed be part of much deeper issues I think. Even once you start having success in dating the problems are not necessarily gone. One perspective you can adopt is that you simply have much deeper challenges to work through in your current lifetime. Thus, any side issues like problems with women don't mean you're some inferior beta, it just means you have more on your plate.

 

Great difficulties can actually lead to deeper awareness over time. The men you might see having success now with "hot" girls at the club may end up broke and disillusioned down the road, while you are only getting happier.

 

 

"One perspective you can adopt is that you simply have much deeper challenges to work through in your current lifetime. Thus, any side issues like problems with women don't mean you're some inferior beta, it just means you have more on your plate. "

 

-----personal opinion------

 

That was very good IMO :-) I reckon it's a neat halfway between 'you're karmically damned' or 'you chose the whole thing before you were born' or 'just wish weally weally hard on a positive star and evewyfing will come true because of vibrations'.

 

----personal opinion-----

 

IMO/IME what your life wants from you (ever figure it that way round?) is resolution. And you want that from you too :-) So you/life will put you in varying positions to heal/resolve. I figure that as 'love'. And if I stretched it a bit, I could suggest that 'resolution' is related to the 'return' of Tao. But that would really be stretching it :-) I once thought I'd had that one figured out. Turns out that no ;-)

[Birch]

Self esteem.

 

It's composed of two things - Confidence and Competence.

 

Confidence is the belief that you can do something.

 

Competence is the actual ability to do something.

 

 

An amateur boxer can be hugely confident - he truly believes he can knock out any oponent. But if his competence lags behind, he can get into a ring and be quickly beaten.

 

Another boxer can be hugely competent - he has truly honed his skills and is an effective fighter. But if his confidence is too low, he can get into the ring and be scared off by a confident oponent.

 

Self esteem is a gradual process - it's the leapfrogging of confidence then competence. You believe that you can get a good grade (cofidence) - so you study and work hard to have that happen (competence).

 

The key is to over-reach slightly with your confidence - believe that you're slightly better than you are - then let competence catch up and take over... then again build confidence and believe you're slightly better than that - and again let competence catch up and overtake it.

 

In Non's case - you seem to be more competent than confident. So for you it's a case of having a little bit of confidence (over-reaching slightly - not massively). Confidence, by it's nature is 'faking it'. It's a belief - a mental construct. So 'a lack' of confidence is as much faking it as over-cofidence is.

 

If you over-reach slightly, and actually put it into practice you will notice your competence will grow... as it grows you take another step with your confidence and again go out and put it into practice and competence will catch up. There is no magic bullet as Thelerner mentioned - it's a case of consistent, step by step progress.

 

Alexandrov has displayed this perfectly. He aknowledged where he was at (terrible with women, nervous about walking up and talking to them etc.) and knowing that, and expecting nothing more he went out and put it into action - approaching women, being nervous, shy etc... but as he did it more and more he noticed himself improving - his competence went up... which raised his confidence... which raised his competence... which raised his confidence etc - it's a viscious cycle to increasing your self esteem - and it's applicable to learning an instrument as well as to socialising.

 

Now personally doing 'cold approaches' is not for me - and it might not be for you. Being able to connect to other humans and have an interaction is a skill applicable to all areas of life. So instead of approaching women to try and get their number or a kiss or sex, why not make it into an ability to connect with people.

 

You could start out with just smiling to someone passing by and holding eye contact. Once you gain competence there, you could start saying hello, then you could actually say more than hello, then you could crack a joke, then you could actually ask them for something (the time, directions, whether they know of a good bookshop, where they grew up as a child etc etc)...

 

Simple, small steps. You will see that once you start taking these tiny steps it becomes very easy. You'll find yourself making conversation with people - connecting with them and becoming curious about them. And little by little this will extend into the more romantic aspects of your life.

 

You say you've not much experience with women. But then you claim to know exactly what they want and intend... Let me tell you that you're limiting yourself and half the world's population - yes some women like rich, 'succesful', muscly men... but some women really dislike that - they like depth, creativity and sensitivity in a man. It's a huge falacy that women don't like shy guys - an honest, unedited shyness is hugely endearing. And as long as you can also display a level of self-esteem, it's actually very attractive. I've had a number of attractive, intelligent and interesting girlfriends who actually avoided 'alpha males'.

 

I understand that you get to feel 'special' by having all these seemingly unsolvable problems - but just consider the possibility that you're holding onto these problems - and they're actually serving you in some way (making you feel special and different, keeping you from potential painful situations and emotions, keeping you in your comfort zone). Just bare that in mind, and every time you notice yourself sabotaging or holding back from making progress, notice that in some way you're protecting yourself...

 

You have been given many solutions that have worked for people in your situation, so now it's a case of applying them. Of course you'll have reservations or disagreements, or objections, or hold-ups, or just procrastination - and no matter how logical, real and important they all seem, they're just protection mechanisms designed to keep you from progressing and growing - your mind will have all maner of clever ways to hold you back - and if for any reason you're held back in any way, know that it's your mind's way of trying to protect you from the unknown.

 

 

" trying to protect you from the unknown"

Um, nope, I'd suggest it's the reverse. It's your mind's way of trying to protect you from what it 'minds' you 'know' already. Which BTW is why all the 'unlearning' is referred to.

Happily, seems there's another aspect of oneself (IMO/IME) that is unconcerned with all of that stuff. Jeez, how we humans made it this far with all of this stuff just blows my mind

[Everything]

A better way of relating to women is to first know your self. That is the first step.

 

How you go a out doing that is the question that you have to answer for your self.

[the_ki]

Hey tao bum

 

 

No, being a zen master wont help you. Being a zen master will help if you are already good with women.

 

 

The first thing you need to be more comfortable to talking to strangers.

 

Say hi to a random person on the street. (Remember to smile). Hey it might not be the normal thing to do but it teaches you something I can't put into words.

 

Ask people for directions.

 

Find a girl sitting outside and say "hey, you seem friendly I'm going to talk to you for a bit" or "hey, hows your day going?" and sit down with her. See a girl walking her dog "hey, so whats your dogs name?" A joke in that your interested in her.

 

The world doesn't end and you feel so empowered after wards.

 

You have GREAT potential, being a guy and all. If you do this, let me know and we'll go from there .

Edited September 2, 2011 by the_ki

[Kali Yuga]

In response to your question:

 

Do you have to be Tiger woods to be caught cheating with a handful of other girls on your wife? Do you have to be Warren Buffet to bag a bombshell? Do you have to be a complete magician in order to get girls to like you?

 

Thing is man, you don't have to be ANYONE. Its very simple - chicks are attracted to men who are emotionally healthy. In short they look for men who have a healthy attitude towards themselves, other people, and the world around them. You wanna know what it is to be "alpha" as you like to term it with all that crap evolutionary psychology, pickup jargon, you love to read? It means to be a normal person. And normality is so frigging rare its unbelievable nowadays.

 

Every dude thinks that they need a cool house or cool car , lots of money or some fake constructed persona and can of "routines" in order to get girls. It's so fake man. But you want to know why a lot of girls hang around guys like that? It's because they are attracted to those cars, to those fake persona's , to that money. If those things pick up and evaporate, your average "pimp" is left with his dick in his hand on a regular Saturday night jacking off home alone. How is a chick ever going to see value in yourself, if you don't even see any? When you think the only value is money or cars etc? She isn't.

 

The only thing that's really worthwhile that will make you popular with the ladies is your own self. And I mean not some wussy egoic self who's always bitching about not getting chicks or always thinking about perpetual lack. I mean the self which has reached emancipation from all those unhealthy thought patterns, who is completely comfortable with his thoughts and feelings, who sees abundance instead of lack and opportunity instead of defeat. His self opinion matter much more to himself than some chick's. A person of action, not rumination.

 

You my friend - don't look too emotionally healthy considered your history of complaining about the other sex on the forums. I see you mope too much - in fact all the time. You know about all this pickup stuff and talk about what's "alpha" and "beta" but the truth is that real dudes hardly talk about this crap. They see a girl - they make an approach. There is no thought or shame, because they aren't afraid of rejection. They don't fear rejection because of the fact that their own self opinion matters more to them than what others think. Win or lose, still a champ, hah! They see something they like -they go for it. It isn't rocket science. I bet a ton of chicks probably even digged you at some point or another - except that they were waiting for you to make your move when you didn't. Analysis will kill romance man.

[thelerner]

 

 

The first thing you need to be more comfortable to talking to strangers.

 

Say hi to a random person on the street. (Remember to smile). Hey it might not be the normal thing to do but it teaches you something I can't put into words.

 

Ask people for directions.

 

Find a girl sitting outside and say "hey, you seem friendly I'm going to talk to you for a bit" or "hey, hows your day going?" and sit down with her. See a girl walking her dog "hey, so whats your dogs name?" A joke in that your interested in her.

 

The world doesn't end and you feel so empowered after wards.

 

You have GREAT potential, being a guy and all. If you do this, let me know and we'll go from there .

 

Good advice. Back packing helped bring me out of my shell, my comfort zone. Knowing no one I was forced to become more outgoing. I looked forward to doing laundry because it was such a great place to meet people. I took to not wearing so I could ask people for the time. When there not rushed people like helping others with directions and ideas for places to go.

[gendao]

Go on a forum where lots of women complain about their lack of success with men. You might find some very similar things going on.

I think people want to meet each other but somehow they've convinced themselves of all kinds of BS about it.

I think.

My 2 cts

Do those even exist?

 

If so, could you please link us to some? I'd be curious to skim some of their challenges..lol. And if they are complaining about the boyfriends they chose...or not being able to get a boyfriend at all?

[Birch]

Do you want me to go get links that confirm your perspectives or ones that challenge them :-) ?

[gendao]

Do you want me to go get links that confirm your perspectives or ones that challenge them :-) ?

Well, I want to do as you suggested? So, please link us to these forums that you were referencing??

 

As I would be curious to know if there really ARE large segments of young, single women somewhere who are having trouble even getting any romantic interest from guys, much less dates, much less sex or even simply losing their V-cards (like many young men today)?

Edited September 3, 2011 by vortex

[Birch]

Hmm, you could Google it. I can't be bothered. I've read them in the past as a kind of permissive move. Then I read some opposite type stuff.

But really, the best I've been reading recently has been on here. I think it's a diverse enough joint for me on the gender issues.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Hmm, you could Google it. I can't be bothered. I've read them in the past as a kind of permissive move. Then I read some opposite type stuff.

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Kate, not you too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Agh, this response is one of the most intellectually lazy, un-supportive statements I have ever heard in my time on the internet!!!!

 

"I have a bunch of resources that would change your mind."

"Okay, what are they?"

"Google them, I can't be bothered to provide them."

 

sahfa;lwihfa;lshdf;akjewhlfhw Drives me crazy! ;askj;aoh;aksndv;iuwe;oih;lwhflsllaslkalushflkwekj

 

You can't go anywhere from there! It's just some random internet point dangling in the wind. No one's going to learn, discover, or anything else with that!

 

I for one was following the conversation, hoping to find some new resources that do some confirming here, some challenging here, etc etc..... and now there's nothing!

 

Please reconsider, this tactic is below you

Edited September 4, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Birch]

It's not a tactic. On this (and many other issues) I've found out that spoonfeeding resources is pointless. The web is filled with forums of the type I mentioned. Maybe if I knew the links I had were really rare, I'd post. I won't bite too much at the "intellectually lazy" or "below you" remarks but I did anticipate that me deciding in this case it was fine enough for others to go do their own legwork on this one would gather a bit of heat:-)

If you use the Google keyword tool you can even find what related search terms people are using for things:-)

Edited to add: And it even gives stats on how many searches are carried out for specific terms.

Just put in there "boyfriend trouble" or "bad boys" and you'll see:-)

 

Man, that's an even cooler link I just shared:-)

Edited September 4, 2011 by -K-

[Sloppy Zhang]

It's not a tactic. On this (and many other issues) I've found out that spoonfeeding resources is pointless... I won't bite too much at the "intellectually lazy" or "below you" remarks but I did anticipate that me deciding in this case it was fine enough for others to go do their own legwork on this one would gather a bit of heat:-)...

 

Intentional or not, the effect is still the same, and I have found it to be rather weak. Conversation fizzle out as people start saying it (whether as a tactic to exit the conversation, or as a genuine lack of caring, the outcome is the same). People go "okay.... well.... okay." When they search, they aren't guaranteed to find the same link, they aren't guaranteed to follow the same route of links that you did, they may find different things, they may focus on different things.

 

Providing a link ensures that everyone at least has the same material in front of them, whether they see the same thing in it or not.

 

Boyfriend trouble

 

Bad boys

 

Those are what I got.

[Birch]

Oh. That's not the really cool google keyword tool i meant. I'm presently mobile so will post it later.

Y'know Slopps, I thought about this again today and I suppose it did spur me onward/ remind me that that's what folks want from me when I make a statement. Should I give em what they want in terms of justification - biblio style? If so, should I do it every time? I think convention would dictate that I do. Now tell me, is following convention laziness? I just had another awesome idea for an internet biz. "bibliographies for every reference".

Sorry to you, but I actually enjoyed the fact that I was honest about not being bothered more than I was concerned about the anticipated flack.

And thanks for having (previously) such a high opinion of me that it could be diminished so contritely;-)

[Sloppy Zhang]

Oh. That's not the really cool google keyword tool i meant. I'm presently mobile so will post it later.

Y'know Slopps, I thought about this again today and I suppose it did spur me onward/ remind me that that's what folks want from me when I make a statement. Should I give em what they want in terms of justification - biblio style? If so, should I do it every time? I think convention would dictate that I do. Now tell me, is following convention laziness? I just had another awesome idea for an internet biz. "bibliographies for every reference".

Sorry to you, but I actually enjoyed the fact that I was honest about not being bothered more than I was concerned about the anticipated flack.

 

Hey now, don't be pulling out that strawman argument on me No one is asking for a bibliography or list of cited sources. It's just like if person A says "hey, there are lots of women out there with the same issues, I see it all the time!" and person B comes in and says "really? I haven't seen that, what kind of stuff are you talking about", and person A goes "well just find it yourself, because I don't care".... well, it kind of kills the conversation

 

It leaves the other party guessing as to what you meant, they can search and search and STILL never find what they are looking for. Hell, sometimes I remember the exact post that someone made on this forum, but can't find it in the search function because I'm not using the right combination of keywords, or something like that. Same with google- I'll know everything about the website except its url, but I STILL can't find it!

 

I think providing resources as often as you can, or as close as you can to what you meant is, at the very least, considerate of others, because it acknowledges that you recognize the commitment they have made to the conversation. If you mention all this wonderful stuff, but never show anything and then leave the conversation, you have wasted their time! I dunno. Call me crazy, but I don't think that's very considerate- whether it is a deliberate argumentative tactic used to avoid the burden of proof, or it is genuine lack of caring.

 

When I find cool things, I bookmark them and, if it's REALLY good and I don't want to lose it, save a copy on my computer with an easy to remember title. That way, if someone needs it, I have it. But that's just me.

 

And thanks for having (previously) such a high opinion of me that it could be diminished so contritely;-)

 

When did I ever say my opinion of you diminished? I said the behavior was below you, not that I'd bump you down on my list of respected bums

Edited September 5, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Mal]

Why not practice your own google fu,

if you can't find it, it's not meant for you!

(or you are to lazy too? )

 

I've got PAGES of bookmarks, poorly organised, that take ages to scroll through. Then 1/2 the time even if you can find it the old sites have gone and you have to get out the way back machine. Or it's bookmarked on the laptop, or the work PC, or perhaps it was in Firefox when I liked that more than chrome. Or did I even bookmark it, was it just a link in a thread I read.... etc.

 

(sorry dogpile)

[Birch]

My argument was a strawman and I showed inconsiderate behaviour that is below me.

 

Slippery slope:-)

[FixXxer1846]

-

Edited June 15, 2012 by FixXxer1845