ffvii Posted August 31, 2011 Do Taoists seek to improve upon self? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 31, 2011 Do Taoists seek to improve upon self? Yes, that was the whole purpose for being a Taoist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 31, 2011 Do Taoists seek to improve upon self? Absolute yes. But be careful of what you mean by "improve". If you try to 'improve' yourself into something you are not you will never find inner peace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z3N Posted August 31, 2011 Do Taoists seek to improve upon self? Hahaha yes!!! Taoist impove them selfs by merging with the way. The improvement is the natural outcome. The outcome is the function beyond the self. The great way Tao is selfless. Being selfless, it comes and goes as too its need. Knowing it's place the guest is respectful to its host. Hahahahaha!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted August 31, 2011 Do Taoists seek to improve upon self? I don't know the answer to that question. I've pondered that for quite a while and I'm very conflicted. I think it's paradoxical. In the beginning, there is a sense of not being good enough and needing to improve. That's the natural tendency of the mind - to want to become something other than it is already. As the practice deepens there may come a time when we see that there is no separation between self and other, between human and environment. Dao is what it is and manifests as it does. Who is the self that desires to improve and what is it improving? Both are already Dao and already perfect. How can "I" improve Dao? How can "I" improve what I already am? And yet if I didn't start down that path of self-improvement would I ever have an insight into that? So when I get to that point practice seems useless and the struggle arises - why practice? I have no answers, just lots of questions. But I do still practice.... and it feels like the right thing to do. But improving upon self? Stay with that question, ffvii - it's much more valuable to you than our answers... I really appreciate the fact that you are asking such excellent questions on this forum _/\_ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z3N Posted August 31, 2011 I don't know the answer to that question. I've pondered that for quite a while and I'm very conflicted. I think it's paradoxical. In the beginning, there is a sense of not being good enough and needing to improve. That's the natural tendency of the mind - to want to become something other than it is already. As the practice deepens there may come a time when we see that there is no separation between self and other, between human and environment. Dao is what it is and manifests as it does. Who is the self that desires to improve and what is it improving? Both are already Dao and already perfect. How can "I" improve Dao? How can "I" improve what I already am? And yet if I didn't start down that path of self-improvement would I ever have an insight into that? So when I get to that point practice seems useless and the struggle arises - why practice? I have no answers, just lots of questions. But I do still practice.... and it feels like the right thing to do. But improving upon self? Stay with that question, ffvii - it's much more valuable to you than our answers... I really appreciate the fact that you are asking such excellent questions on this forum _/\_ [/quot I like one that's questions. Of cause the tao is the Tao and it is all that there is. Truth you are Tao! And allso you are right it the fact that the paradox in ones own illusion of the word improvement allows the confusion and questions to torment ones own being. But this duality of ones being all aries from the function on ones guest ( ego. ) This mechanism of brain matter murders the oneness of the Tao. Mind the host of the spirit and of all things, aids in the wisdom of the Tao to unfold allowing awareness the insight and understanding of impovement. Change and transfromation is improvement of oneness own merging into the oneness of the tao. Slicing and diceing into smaller and smaller components. Which of cause aids in the illusional and the delusional aspects of the question at hand is the work of the guest. This is not reality of the Tao. Just a isolation of a component that makes up that makes up the Tao. So you could say that this is a natural outcome of ones own evlolution of the soul when the wild beast of the ego is tamed. Then one can say yes improvement is the way. The guest needs to understand in order to to merge and be at one. To be effortless and natural in its function. Outcome is spontaneous and free. The way of no-mind. Hahaha really there's no such thing as improvement! Hahahahaha!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted August 31, 2011 I like one that's questions. Of cause the tao is the Tao and it is all that there is. Truth you are Tao! And allso you are right it the fact that the paradox in ones own illusion of the word improvement allows the confusion and questions to torment ones own being. But this duality of ones being all aries from the function on ones guest ( ego. ) This mechanism of brain matter murders the oneness of the Tao. Mind the host of the spirit and of all things, aids in the wisdom of the Tao to unfold allowing awareness the insight and understanding of impovement. Change and transfromation is improvement of oneness own merging into the oneness of the tao. Slicing and diceing into smaller and smaller components. Which of cause aids in the illusional and the delusional aspects of the question at hand is the work of the guest. This is not reality of the Tao. Just a isolation of a component that makes up that makes up the Tao. So you could say that this is a natural outcome of ones own evlolution of the soul when the wild beast of the ego is tamed. Then one can say yes improvement is the way. The guest needs to understand in order to to merge and be at one. To be effortless and natural in its function. Outcome is spontaneous and free. The way of no-mind. Hahaha really there's no such thing as improvement! Hahahahaha!!! As Z3N stated... Improvement is a concept of the Ego/Mind. We are never really separate from the oneness of Tao. It is more about letting go of "artificial beliefs" than improvement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Friend Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted September 2, 2011 As Z3N stated... Improvement is a concept of the Ego/Mind. We are never really separate from the oneness of Tao. It is more about letting go of "artificial beliefs" than improvement. Righto :-) So, just to go further there, are 'artificial beliefs' apart from Tao? I see this as akin to the Sophia story where at her birth she also produces a bunch of non-organic somethings or others. I guess in today's vernacular, one might call them 'memes' and as such they inhabit the organism (probably to the detriment of the latter, but not always, I mean, we people are quite the bacterial culture aren't we :-)?) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted September 2, 2011 Righto :-) So, just to go further there, are 'artificial beliefs' apart from Tao? I see this as akin to the Sophia story where at her birth she also produces a bunch of non-organic somethings or others. I guess in today's vernacular, one might call them 'memes' and as such they inhabit the organism (probably to the detriment of the latter, but not always, I mean, we people are quite the bacterial culture aren't we :-)?) Good one... All thoughts (including artificial beliefs) are part of Tao. The problems is that we are to busy being distracted with the little organisms that we miss the big picture. All is Tao... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted September 2, 2011 Good one... All thoughts (including artificial beliefs) are part of Tao. The problems is that we are to busy being distracted with the little organisms that we miss the big picture. All is Tao... Right, so now is not the time to post a picture of the beauties that live in your eyelashes then Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z3N Posted September 2, 2011 Right, so now is not the time to post a picture of the beauties that live in your eyelashes then It's always the right time cause all is Tao. The cause and effects of ones own self is also Tao. Tao within Tao and tao without Tao. Like two facing mirrors facing each other. Its like the ego flips one mirror around so only reflecting its self. Please post your picture. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 2, 2011 Please post your picture. I sure hope she doesn't post a picture of my imaginary Gypsy Lady. That would be very distracting. Hehehe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z3N Posted September 2, 2011 I sure hope she doesn't post a picture of my imaginary Gypsy Lady. That would be very distracting. Hehehe. Hahahahaha every well let's do it for the experiment! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 2, 2011 Hahahahaha every well let's do it for the experiment! Hey! I love temptations!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan Posted September 7, 2011 To become a true human. "I'm just a Human Being, simply being Human." ~ myself Share the quote, spread the word, Humans versus.... heh uh I got nothin' We've got plently of politicians, but not nearly enough Humans to compensate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) I think it is more to improve on spirit then the generally termed self. The answer to this question would have to be on an individual basis and an understanding of one's perspective must be taken into account. Edited September 7, 2011 by Informer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan Posted September 7, 2011 I think it is more to improve on spirit then the generally termed self. The answer to this question would have to be on an individual basis and an understanding of one's perspective must be taken into account. The generally termed self is body. The true self is our whole being; Mind, body, emotions, and spirit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 7, 2011 The generally termed self is body. The true self is our whole being; Mind, body, emotions, and spirit. Hehehe. Well, there's one person who is going to agree with me whenever we get into that discussion again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted September 7, 2011 The generally termed self is body. The true self is our whole being; Mind, body, emotions, and spirit. Generally termed by whom? LOL, if only scientist accepted that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan Posted September 8, 2011 Generally termed by whom? LOL, if only scientist accepted that. Generally speaking, common people. Science has come a long way since the middle ages, i'll have to give it that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
