Tai ji and MMA

[Machin Shin]

An old man that I listen to at times.

 

 

His son with friends.

MMA fighters talk with coach.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Machin Shin

[Prince...]

I was just watching this exact video yesterday. Interesting variation of the Guang Ping form. I'd be interested to hear at what point he trained with Master Guo, and what age he was when he trained under him.

[FixXxer1846]

Don't know who the long-haired male ballerina is in the first video is but he's going to get his ass kicked when dancing with the guys in the second video. But I guess that's the case with all Tai Chi and Kung Fu boys...

[Prince...]

Don't know who the long-haired male ballerina is in the first video is but he's going to get his ass kicked when dancing with the guys in the second video. But I guess that's the case with all Tai Chi and Kung Fu boys...

 

I know quite a few "Kung Fu" boys who can hold their own in MMA fights. Did you know the top MMA fighter in China comes from an Yiquan school?

 

Also, the "long-haired male ballerina" comes from the lineage that actually brought Yiquan to America. His teacher supposedly tossed Bruce Lee out on his ass when he came to visit his school in China Town.

 

Isn't he considered the father of modern MMA?

 

Just sayin'...

[Green Tiger]

I heard Brock Lesnar fights all of those guys at the same time for his morning warm up

[mYTHmAKER]

 

Also, the "long-haired male ballerina" comes from the lineage that actually brought Yiquan to America. His teacher supposedly tossed Bruce Lee out on his ass when he came to visit his school in China Town.

 

 

My teacher is top notch, a fighter with a powerful lineage but that doesn't mean I'm any good.

[Yuen Biao]

But I guess that's the case with all Tai Chi and Kung Fu boys...

 

I guess you've never studied/sparred with gifted Taijiquan people then considering the naive nature of your post. I do not declare myself an amazing fighter but I've studied with some amazing people over the last twenty-odd years in a variety of forms and none have come close to the Taiji masters I studied with in China.

 

And who did Bruce Lee 'supposedly' get thrown about by?!

[Prince...]

My teacher is top notch, a fighter with a powerful lineage but that doesn't mean I'm any good.

 

While it is true that it may not necessarily mean you are any good, but your teacher, as you've stated, is a top notch fighter. The statement was that kungfu/taiji guys cannot fight.

 

 

And who did Bruce Lee 'supposedly' get thrown about by?!

 

Kuo Lien Ying (1895-1985)- Guang Ping Taiji master, there are many stories of Kou accepting and issuing challenges. Kuo Lien Ying challenged Cheng Man Ching and was known to have thrown Bruce Lee out of his school in San Francisco. Security guard for some company in China/Inner Mongolia. He also reportedly challenged Joe Louis the boxing champ when he was in Taiwan. Louis never responded.

http://www.polariswushu.net/halloffame.html

 

Also the "long haired ballerina" is one of my kungfu uncles. I've never met him, nor do I know who he is. There are "Taiji" guys who I would not want hitting me. Does it mean they can fight? Not really, but would you want to pick a fight with an amateur boxer with great knockout power?

[mYTHmAKER]

Also the "long haired ballerina" is one of my kungfu uncles. I've never met him, nor do I know who he is. There are "Taiji" guys who I would not want hitting me. Does it mean they can fight? Not really, but would you want to pick a fight with an amateur boxer with great knockout power?

 

Bottom line is your uncle is disconnected( not moving from and with his center) in his movement and not that grounded.

BTW you must be pretty young to consider him an old man

Edited September 16, 2011 by mYTHmAKER

[Prince...]

Bottom line is your uncle is disconnected( not moving from and with his center) in his movement and not that grounded.

BTW you must be pretty young to consider him an old man

 

If you feel that his form is bad, that is okay. I said that I have never met this man, nor do I even know who he is. The original poster called him an old man, not me. What he is doing is a variation on what we call "the young man's form." My form looks different.It is also possible that the other styles he does have some influence on his form. Guang Ping has elements of Yang style, Chen style, Hebei XingYi, and Bagua. My form has a strong XingYi influence because that is what I like. It's possible that he studied Master Guo's Shaolin material in addition to the internal styles.

 

Considering the age of most of the people who learned the "young man form" from Master Guo, this man would be old enough to at least be my father right now (making him 50+), so yes, I am pretty young compared to him.

 

If people don't like someone's form, my feelings won't be hurt. I like this style. It introduced me to Yiquan, and with some luck, I will be going to study it in China soon.

[mYTHmAKER]

If you feel that his form is bad, that is okay. I said that I have never met this man, nor do I even know who he is. The original poster called him an old man, not me. What he is doing is a variation on what we call "the young man's form." My form looks different.It is also possible that the other styles he does have some influence on his form. Guang Ping has elements of Yang style, Chen style, Hebei XingYi, and Bagua. My form has a strong XingYi influence because that is what I like. It's possible that he studied Master Guo's Shaolin material in addition to the internal styles.

 

Considering the age of most of the people who learned the "young man form" from Master Guo, this man would be old enough to at least be my father right now (making him 50+), so yes, I am pretty young compared to him.

 

If people don't like someone's form, my feelings won't be hurt. I like this style. It introduced me to Yiquan, and with some luck, I will be going to study it in China soon.

 

Nothing wrong with the style - any style is good as long as it's done well.

I assumed your feelings wouldn't be hurt and i was right

[FixXxer1846]

-

Edited June 15, 2012 by FixXxer1845

[templetao]

I love comments like the above.

 

I myself have been in fighting competitions and have taken quite a few challenge matches and even more street fights.

 

The reality of kungfu was that you learned it because someone or some group wanted to kill you. Learning Kungfu could prevent you from being killed, your village from being raided, your childern being sold into slavery, and the women from being raped.

 

before the law of the gun their was only the law of the fist.

 

The truth is that martial artist got soft in recent decades.

 

if this was 200yrs ago and you were a martial artist you most likely would have fought a martial artist to the death or would have been killed yourself.

 

People watch kungfu movies and have no concept of the reality that is being portrayed.

 

My master told me (who watched alot of challenge matches) that he never seen a taichi master lose a challenge.

 

Now you got the mma guys who think their hot shit all because they can knock someone out.

[doc benway]

 

Isn't he considered the father of modern MMA?

 

 

Bruce Lee?

 

I have to disagree with you there. He may have raised Western awareness of Kung Fu but martial arts competition before and after Bruce Lee was basically the same. Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Kung Fu tournaments - mostly point fighting, some full contact. Bruce didn't have any major influence on the development of MMA, IMO.

 

I would call Rorion and Royce Gracie the fathers of modern MMA. Rorion basically designed UFC 1 to showcase the Brazilian jiu jutsu that had made his family famous in the Vale Tudo competitions in Brazil. Rorion pitched the idea to a few American producers and UFC1 changed martial arts competition forever. Royce represented so well in the early competitions that BJJ and "no holds barred" competition took off world wide. MMA was coined as a term several years later.

[Enishi]

It's one thing to claim that internal martial arts and fajing CAN allow you to reasonably defend yourself, even against someone with better muscular development. For those reasons it's a great practice for someone who is focused on other activities in life or wants to stay healthy and strong in old age while professional western fighters encounter more and more health problems as time wears on.

 

It's something else entirely to state that internal martial artists can totally destroy top MMA fighters, and then not back it up. Those kinds of claims do make internal martial arts appear suspect imo.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Enishi

[doc benway]

,,,,,

 

Guang Ping has elements of Yang style, Chen style, Hebei XingYi, and Bagua.

 

......

 

If people don't like someone's form, my feelings won't be hurt. I like this style. It introduced me to Yiquan, and with some luck, I will be going to study it in China soon.

I'm convinced that Guang Ping is the real deal after reading Master Guo's book - The Tai Chi Boxing Chronicle.

It does not compromise and is the sort of thing where you really can't learn taijiquan by reading it but if you are studying with a credible master, the book will gradually reinforce and validate the things you discover through your practice. Best book out there on taijiquan, IMO.

 

Good luck with the Yiquan! It is a beautiful and serious art. I've seen some Yiquan guys with very high level skills.

The spontaneous practice is a wonderful thing. I really resonate with their philosophical approach particularly when it comes to the way they deal with "energy." Do you practice it with someone in the states now?

[dwai]

It's one thing to claim that internal martial arts and fajing CAN allow you to reasonably defend yourself, even against someone with better muscular development. For those reasons it's a great practice for someone who is focused on other activities in life or wants to stay healthy and strong in old age while professional western fighters encounter more and more health problems as time wears on.

 

It's something else entirely to state that internal martial artists can totally destroy top MMA fighters, and then not back it up. Those kinds of claims do make internal martial arts appear suspect imo.

 

This is just hearsay but I've heard from reliable sources how "tough guys" (often from rival martial arts schools) would challenge Master Waysun Liao of Oak Park, IL and have to be sent to the hospital in ambulances. Taiji is effective in the right hands. And as a matter of fact, Taiji has many things built into it, doesn't it? It's got take-down defenses (e.g. rooting, ability to shift weights instantaneously, emptying out different parts of one's body etc).

 

No doubt MMA guys have a lot of training (or should at least) doing "tough" things...but MMA at the end of the day is a sport and god forbid you get surrounded by 4-5 mean dudes on the street, take-down is probably the last thing you should be doing. Also, all these submission holds etc...if you put a triangle around someone's neck and shoulders, all they have to do is lift you up and smack your head down on asphalt...we'll see how well a submission hold like that will work in reality.

 

Now if I were to be in a fight, I'd want to do as much damage to the individual with the least amount of effort. It's funny how a few well directed strikes to the throat, eyes, plexus or groin can dissuade the best of the fighters from continuing their aggressive overtures.

 

After a great deal of deliberation over the years, I've come to realize this. A good fighter is a good fighter only if he/she has the "killer instinct". No amount of techniques, etc will help one in a fight unless they can bring themselves to harm someone else. To have technique is one thing, but if one cannot bring his/herself to commit to those techniques or adapt the techniques as needed, it'll be very pretty to look at but completely ineffective.

 

When I was younger, I used to learn Goju Ryu and our training used to be in an open arena with no protective gear, etc. We would spar full contact with only rules being no groin, eye and throat strikes. It was amazing to see how some of the students would have really good technique but were unable to reasonably cause much damage (even in the scope of just sparring) to their "opponent" while others would relish in causing nominal pain (with consequences from my sensei, who was a lady of 5'4" and a lawyer by profession) and there was no doubt that these guys would and could inflict a significant amount of damage if they chose to (one was a gangster and one was a bouncer).

 

Around the same time frame, one of my friends was a 3rd Degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do and one day while sparring with him, I just closed the gap suddenly and blocked his kicking capability by entering his space. The look on his face was astonishing, in that he couldn't figure out how to do kick and since he did tae kwon do, he didn't really focus too much on hand strikes.

 

Moral of the story is, a good fighter needs to have killer instinct and also be able to adapt and respond to situations without having to think about it.

 

Check out these clips:

 

http://houseoftaichi.com/martial/clip1.mov

http://houseoftaichi.com/martial/clip2.mov

http://houseoftaichi.com/martial/clip3.mov

Edited September 18, 2011 by dwai

[FixXxer1846]

I love comments like the above.

 

...

 

My master told me (who watched alot of challenge matches) that he never seen a taichi master lose a challenge.

 

Now you got the mma guys who think their hot shit all because they can knock someone out.

My ninjutsu "master" once told me stuff as well... doesn't mean it's based on reality (and it was nice to know that their "mystical" teachings consist on the microcosmic orbit, kundalini and a few other practices). People believe in fairy tails, especially the "wise" old men. But put a Tai Chi "master" in the cage and we'll see what happens. I once saw a 7th or 8th dan ninjutsu guy get man handled by a reasonably skilled MMA fighter. The modern stuff is just better than the old.

 

Maybe there are masters out there who have build up their meridian system to such an extent that they can kill that way (like you can see on some History Channel documentary), but that's about the only chance these styles have. Then again, at that point things become so serious they fall into the warfare category and you can just as well introduce machine guns...

[Protector]

My master likes to talk in riddles, drink wine and travel. My other master never talks and just does music. My third master counts numbers and forgets how to speak with words. Another guy is a ninja but you don't call him a ninja because that is not a politically correct or something. There's a bunch more and one of them is a %#$^ but I won't say who because that wont be nice, and I'm nice.

 

 

So just saying: How's a kung fu or tai chi or Jeet Kune Do or Karate master going to defend himself against take downs, leg locks, arm bars or even a body build up through western style dieting and fitness regimes? Gonna be tough and seemingly impossible at the highest levels.

 

brute force PUNCH THEM IN THE FACE!

 

seriously, how can they be so skinny and punch so frikin' hard, maaaaaan

[orb]

This is just hearsay but I've heard from reliable sources how "tough guys" (often from rival martial arts schools) would challenge Master Waysun Liao of Oak Park, IL and have to be sent to the hospital in ambulances. Taiji is effective in the right hands. And as a matter of fact, Taiji has many things built into it, doesn't it? It's got take-down defenses (e.g. rooting, ability to shift weights instantaneously, emptying out different parts of one's body etc).

 

No doubt MMA guys have a lot of training (or should at least) doing "tough" things...but MMA at the end of the day is a sport and god forbid you get surrounded by 4-5 mean dudes on the street, take-down is probably the last thing you should be doing. Also, all these submission holds etc...if you put a triangle around someone's neck and shoulders, all they have to do is lift you up and smack your head down on asphalt...we'll see how well a submission hold like that will work in reality.

 

Now if I were to be in a fight, I'd want to do as much damage to the individual with the least amount of effort. It's funny how a few well directed strikes to the throat, eyes, plexus or groin can dissuade the best of the fighters from continuing their aggressive overtures.

 

After a great deal of deliberation over the years, I've come to realize this. A good fighter is a good fighter only if he/she has the "killer instinct". No amount of techniques, etc will help one in a fight unless they can bring themselves to harm someone else. To have technique is one thing, but if one cannot bring his/herself to commit to those techniques or adapt the techniques as needed, it'll be very pretty to look at but completely ineffective.

 

When I was younger, I used to learn Goju Ryu and our training used to be in an open arena with no protective gear, etc. We would spar full contact with only rules being no groin, eye and throat strikes. It was amazing to see how some of the students would have really good technique but were unable to reasonably cause much damage (even in the scope of just sparring) to their "opponent" while others would relish in causing nominal pain (with consequences from my sensei, who was a lady of 5'4" and a lawyer by profession) and there was no doubt that these guys would and could inflict a significant amount of damage if they chose to (one was a gangster and one was a bouncer).

 

Around the same time frame, one of my friends was a 3rd Degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do and one day while sparring with him, I just closed the gap suddenly and blocked his kicking capability by entering his space. The look on his face was astonishing, in that he couldn't figure out how to do kick and since he did tae kwon do, he didn't really focus too much on hand strikes.

 

Moral of the story is, a good fighter needs to have killer instinct and also be able to adapt and respond to situations without having to think about it.

 

Check out these clips:

 

http://houseoftaichi.com/martial/clip1.mov

http://houseoftaichi.com/martial/clip2.mov

http://houseoftaichi.com/martial/clip3.mov

 

You know I actually liked ur theory about the "killing instinct", but then those nerdy videos just killed it. I really hope you don't try to use that against MMA.

[Machin Shin]

The Taiji master is the bald headed guy that tells the MMA fighters what to do. He's the son of the man in the 1st video.

 

They are Bob Cook Sr. and Jr..

[dwai]

You know I actually liked ur theory about the "killing instinct", but then those nerdy videos just killed it. I really hope you don't try to use that against MMA.

 

If you are in the Ft Lauderdale area, go check him out, I hear he can positively re-enforce the fact that Taiji is a "real" Martial Art and really effective.

 

[orb]

If you are in the Ft Lauderdale area, go check him out, I hear he can positively re-enforce the fact that Taiji is a "real" Martial Art and really effective.

 

 

 

will do

[gendao]

So just saying: How's a kung fu or tai chi or Jeet Kune Do or Karate master going to defend himself against take downs, leg locks, arm bars or even a body build up through western style dieting and fitness regimes? Gonna be tough and seemingly impossible at the highest levels.

It's extremeellyyy easy to defend yourself against a takedown with a sprawl. In fact, it's nearly impossible to take someone down who keeps sprawling back on you. While at the same time subjecting yourself to far greater risk of getting beat in the face or guillotined.

 

I think they just happen so much easier in MMA because opponents often don't resist. In addition, they get paid to fight and not dodge in the ring. Plus if he has grappling skills, he won't mind getting taken down anyways, as that is not an automatic disadvantage to him. Which in many cases, may even work to his favor.

 

Now, if your opponent gets a lock set on you, then at that point you are pretty much f*cked, lol! There's no easy out for that!

 

 

Anyhow, as far as "Eastern qi" vs "Western muscles":

Edited September 19, 2011 by vortex

[templetao]

The master in the above videos is very high level. Im sure with his skill in 3 moves or less he would break bones, shatter internal organs, and internally mess you up.

 

and leave you on the ground bloody and broken in an instant.

 

Master Hoffman and Master Liao can kill you with a punch.

 

Very deadly.

Edited September 19, 2011 by templetao