Any recomended concentration meditation?

[Edward M]

Agree with Nei Chuan,

 

I did counting breaths for years before starting with watching the breath. It is a lot harder than it sounds and it also very very rewarding. Highly recomended!!

 

Ed

[Mandrake]

Buddhist enlightenment is the first step in some schools of Taoist alchemy! It's a cultivation of the body, mind and spirit...not just the body and its sensations.

 

This is misleading information. I hope that nobody new to the Buddhist schools of cultivation are influenced by the quoted statement.

 

To the OP, Everything: Could I suggest that you think about what you are going to use your concentration meditation for, integrated into a larger system? Depending on the context, some methods are more suitable than others. One school may use extensive visualizations as a foundation which they build upon with succeeding methods. This may be obvious for you, I just wanted to point it out.

Other than that, be sure that you increase your relaxation at each step on the way. Some methods will just build up a lot of tension if you arrive with a stressed body and psyche.

 

Good luck!

Mandrake

 

PS. A teacher is of enormous help, and can help you with suitable methods, and save you a lot of time. DS.

[dawei]

Think that response is a bit hardcore for what he said. Just disagrees.

 

It may not of been a simple disagreement, but a blanket statement made against all meditation methods (see below in bold); this kind of comment is not really helpful towards an understanding that there are MANY methods and there is no need to setup superior of one vs another. In the end, the person finds which one they really connect to and get something out of. Hopefully there is acceptance that there is enough variation in the world of meditation to provide everyone a chance to see what works for them. It is great to hear what works for certain people but it does not mean it must work for another; that is their own journey.

 

 

I would ignore the last paragraph concerning about the Dan Tian because it defeated the whole purpose of meditation.

[dawei]

This is misleading information. I hope that nobody new to the Buddhist schools of cultivation are influenced by the quoted statement.

I think you made some good points in your post but I would like to point out that i think your misreading what scotty said.

 

He is NOT talking about Buddhist Schools of Cultivation but Taoist Alchemy. He simply said that Buddhist enlightenment is the first step in some schools of Taoist Alchemy.

 

I personally could not call that misinformation as if I know every single teaching, lineage, and branch of Taoist Alchemy to ever exist. I personally will give some leeway to people sharing their personal experience and whatever method they were taught. Just because I was never taught it (nor know it) does not mean it does not exist. I think this thread has turned into a competition of what is better, best or to be debunked, and that's not useful to a broad understanding of meditation methods.

 

Again, I agree with many of your points. Nicely said overall.

[forestofclarity]

LBD, I think you make a lot of good points in your post.

 

Old school Theravada Buddhism is actually very much focused on the body. The body is the first of the four foundations of mindfulness. There are specific exercises for exploring this initial foundation, such as contemplation on the 32 parts of the body and the contemplation of the elements. Further, the body is the first of the 5 skhandas, under form.

 

I think the old Taoist critique may be based more on certain schools of Chan Buddhism.

 

 

The Buddhists seemed to focus mostly on the mind and thoughts, where as the Taoists focus mostly on the body and sensations. On a deeper level, both the awareness the mind puts on sensation, and the awareness that the mind puts on thoughts can be unraveled to return to the root... the essence of the mind, and that from which the mind sprouts.

[relaxer]

The "surface conscious mind" seems like a very high level generalization. What specifically do you think of when you mention that. Can you give an example.

 

The same can be said for "penetrat(ing) the depths". Again, that seems high level. What specifically do you mean. How would you contrast that with the surface mind?

 

When I read what you wrote, I consider the difference between the awareness of conscious thoughts, such as visualization and internal dialogue.. versus a deeper awareness of the sensations in the body.

 

Where do you draw the distinction between the two?

 

 

I understand that it could be taken as a high level generalization. It was something that the teacher touched on briefly at the retreat that resonated with my direct experience. I have an intuitive sense that putting awareness on breath will quiet the surface BY quieting the depths.

 

I've known people who do mantra and visualization meditation. While I believe that they have interesting meditations, I just get overwhelmed by their quality of ungrounded-ness. I know I'm running the risk of generalizing here, but I would rather hang out with a dude that meditates with discipline on his breath for a couple hours a day than someone who repeats mantras or imagines balls of multicolored light.

 

Anapana seems to work on all levels at once. Mantra and the like seem to work on the inner-dialogue which then creates a space to work into the depths. It's all worth something. Anapana feels safe and reliable and deep in a way that mantra and visualization don't. Awareness of breath is just THAT, just that one path. When you get into mantra and the like, you've entered into a field of infinite paths. It's easy to get lost in there.

 

I don't have access to a good teacher. I think this is a pretty normal problem. It seems right to work with breath in my case. There's not as much risk of getting lost.

 

I could be wrong. Most of this is just intuition based on personal experience.

[LBDaoist]

LBD, I think you make a lot of good points in your post.

 

Old school Theravada Buddhism is actually very much focused on the body. The body is the first of the four foundations of mindfulness. There are specific exercises for exploring this initial foundation, such as contemplation on the 32 parts of the body and the contemplation of the elements. Further, the body is the first of the 5 skhandas, under form.

 

I think the old Taoist critique may be based more on certain schools of Chan Buddhism.

 

 

 

That's interesting about Theravada Buddhism. My only exposure to Buddhism has come through Thomas Cleary's translations of the Chan Buddhism classics, and a smattering of Buddhist / Shao-Lin exercises / forms that are part of the art I study with my sifu. My sifu is a Tao, so that colors my practice and understanding.

 

I've been told that generally, Buddhists train from the hard to to the soft... from the external to the internal... body to the mind and spirit. Taoists train the opposite way... soft to hard, internal to external, spirit to mind to body. Do you have any thoughts about that?

[LBDaoist]

I've known people who do mantra and visualization meditation. While I believe that they have interesting meditations, I just get overwhelmed by their quality of ungrounded-ness.

 

That makes sense. By meditating only on the mind, it would be easy to get caught up in thoughts and carried away. A focus on the breathing and the body gives the mind a foundation.

[Sunya]

I did dantien breathing for a long time (everyday for a year) and didn't really get anywhere. I also tried mindfulness of breath at the nostrils and found it to be more effective, but I found it difficult to not get "lost" in the breath and space out or get sleepy. Honestly I think the most effective concentration method which forces you to constantly hold attention and stay awake is visualization. It was only until I tried visualization that I realized just how crappy my concentration skill was. Also, mantra with visualization as in deity yoga works very well.

 

http://www.chagchen.com/index.htm this online book might be very helpful, specifically the Resting Mind series which are shamata (concentration) practices.

 

Also, please keep in mind that concentration in and of itself is not a path. After you can continually rest the mind and focus, you should move onto insight practice, like the practices in Exploring the Mind series for the purpose of gaining insight.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Sunya

[Sunya]

My experience.

 

I'd rather offer help to those who are interested, than explanations to those who aren't. I'm trying to duck out of this topic, since the truth is painful to those still trying to form their own opinions. But I'll say this...

 

Buddhist enlightenment is the first step in some schools of Taoist alchemy! It's a cultivation of the body, mind and spirit...not just the body and its sensations.

 

Okay leaving this topic now for real. It's not the place. Peace.

 

I've had many conversations with Scotty outside of these forums and while he is a very nice person who I consider a friend, I have to point out that after many conversations he still doesn't understand Buddhism. So his claim that Taoism is superior should be taken with a grain of salt since he never had a Buddhist teacher or followed a Buddhist path.

 

I don't want this to turn into a flame war of which path is better. Whatever works. There are many paths to the Dharmakaya.

 

I think you made some good points in your post but I would like to point out that i think your misreading what scotty said.

 

He is NOT talking about Buddhist Schools of Cultivation but Taoist Alchemy. He simply said that Buddhist enlightenment is the first step in some schools of Taoist Alchemy.

 

It's definitely misleading. There's no steps beyond Buddhahood. Basically a Buddha is one with the Dharmakaya, complete omniscience, and limitless power to manifest in any plane of existence, in addition to perfect compassion. I don't know what could possibly be beyond that.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Sunya

[Aetherous]

That's bullshit, Sunya. I understand Buddhism just fine...and actually had to correct you on many of its basic points.

 

You did not practice dantien breathing everyday for a year...

 

It's definitely misleading. There's no steps beyond Buddhahood. Basically a Buddha is one with the Dharmakaya, complete omniscience, and limitless power to manifest in any plane of existence, in addition to perfect compassion. I don't know what could possibly be beyond that.

 

I'm not talking about your idea of Buddhahood (which doesn't exist); I said Buddhist enlightenment.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[forestofclarity]

Personally, I think the most effective method is the one that works for you.

 

People are different. Some people are oriented towards thoughts, others toward feelings, others toward bodily sensations. Some people are devotional, some intellectual, some active, some passive. People have different genes, different conditioning, different cultures.

 

In my mind, there is no one way for everyone. Different people need different things at different times.

 

Honestly I think the most effective concentration method which forces you to constantly hold attention and stay awake is visualization. It was only until I tried visualization that I realized just how crappy my concentration skill was. Also, mantra with visualization as in deity yoga works very well.

[Sunya]

That's bullshit, Sunya. I understand Buddhism just fine...and actually had to correct you on many of its basic points.

 

Ummm that wasn't meant as an insult. I don't claim to understand Taoism, and I wouldn't be offended if somebody stated that fact. Look, I spent many hours trying to explain what the meaning of emptiness is and you always disagreed. That's not correcting me. That's just disagreeing. If you understood Buddhism, there wouldn't be a disagreement. Yet you continually argued strange notions like "the body can exist without air for 17 minutes therefore the body is independent which means emptiness is a false teaching." No, Scotty, if you understood Buddhism you wouldn't be saying such strange things.

 

You did not practice dantien breathing everyday for a year...

 

Yes, I did.

 

I'm not talking about your idea of Buddhahood (which doesn't exist); I said Buddhist enlightenment.

 

Buddhahood or supreme enlightenment is the goal of Buddhism. It's not my idea of Buddhahood. It's clearly defined in Buddhist texts. You can't redefine Buddhist enlightenment to suit your experience and claim you understand Buddhism and say Buddhists themselves are somehow deluded. Even if you had a taste of emptiness, that's still not Buddhahood. First stage Bodhisattvas have realized emptiness and so have Arhats, but they are not Buddhas. There are clearly delineated differences.

 

http://www.fpmt.org/.../paths_sopa.php

 

To obtain buddhahood the obstacles to the goal have to be completely removed. These obstacles are of two main types: obstacles to liberation, which includes the delusions such as attachment, and obstacles to omniscience. When the various delusions have been removed, one becomes an arhat. In Tibetan, arhat (Tibetan: gra-bCom-pa) means one who has destroyed (Tibetan: bCom) the inner enemy (Tibetan: gra), and thus has obtained emancipation from all delusions. However, this is not the attainment of buddhahood. An arhat is free from samsara and all misery and suffering; he no longer is prone to a rebirth conditioned by karma and delusion. At the moment we are strongly under the power of these two forces, being reborn again and again, sometimes higher, sometimes lower. We have little choice or independence in our birth, life, death, and rebirth. Negative karma and delusion combine and overpower us again and again. Our freedom is thus greatly limited. It is a circle: occasionally rebirth in a high realm, then in a low world; sometimes an animal, sometimes a human or a god. This is what is meant by 'samsara.' An arhat has achieved liberation from this circle. He has broken the circle and gone beyond it. His life has become totally pure, totally free. The forces that controlled him have gone, and he dwells in a state of emancipation from compulsive experience. His realization of shunyata is complete.

 

In the method side, the arhat has cultivated a path combining meditation on emptiness with meditation on the impermanence of life, karma and its results, the suffering nature of the whole circle of samsara, and so forth. But arhatship does not have the perfection of buddhahood. Compared to our ordinary samsaric life it is a great attainment, but the arhats still have a certain degree of subtle obstacles. The mental obstacles such as desire, hatred, ignorance and so forth have gone, but because they have been active forces within the mind for so long they leave behind a subtle hindrance, a kind of subtle habit or predisposition. Desire may have gone, but it leaves behind something very subtle in the mind. Or, although an arhat will not have anger, he may continue an old habit such as using harsh words. And he will have a very subtle self-centerdness. Similarly, arhats do not have ignorance or wrong views, but they do not see certain aspects of cause and effect as clearly as does a buddha. These kinds of subtle limitations are called the obstacles to omniscience. In buddhahood they have been completely removed. No obstacles remain. There is both perfect freedom and perfect knowledge.

 

With the ripening of wisdom and method comes the fruit of the wisdom and form bodies of a buddha. The form body has two dimensions, the samboghakaya and nirmanakaya, which with the wisdom body of dharmakaya constitute the three kayas. The form bodies are not ordinary form; they are purely mental, a reflection or manifestation of the dharmakaya wisdom. From perfect wisdom emerges perfect form. Buddhahood is endowed with many qualities: perfect body and mind, omniscient knowledge, power and so forth. From the perfection of the inner qualities is manifested a perfect environment, a 'pure land.' A buddha has a cause. His cause is a bodhisattva. Before attaining buddhahood one must train as a bodhisattva and cultivate a path uniting method with wisdom. The function of wisdom is to eliminate ignorance; the function of method is to produce the physical and environmental perfections of being. The bodhisattva trainings are vast: generosity, with which one tries to help others; patience, which keeps the mind in a state of calm; diligent perseverance, with which in order to help other sentient beings one joyfully undergoes the many hardships without hesitation; and many others.

 

You may disagree with Buddhahood as a realistic possibility, but please don't redefine Buddhist enlightenment to suit your needs.

 

Taoism is a fine path and leads to great realizations. So does Buddhism. Neither is superior.

[thelerner]

Its a bit mechanical, but counting breaths. I don't mean to 10 and starting over, I mean up to 100 or 200. As time goes on it gets harder to stay focused.

 

Glenn Morris had a mind scrub practice where you'd count your breaths 1 to 10, in counted as 1, out for 2..etc. BUT if a thought entered your mind, any thought, you'd have to go back to 1. If you practice honestly, getting to 10 isn't easy.

 

Likewise there are non meditational ways to hone concentration. Count mentally up to 100, 1,2, 3.. then down by 2's 100, 98, 96, then up by odd 1..3..5.. You can play around w/ it, adding or subtracting 3's, 4's, etc. The mind rebells and wanders. Try to do it while distracted w/ TV or radio, very hard.

 

Traditionally (India) visual focusing was considered to hone the concentration. Staying focused on a pebble, calligraphy, or flame.

[Mandrake]

I think you made some good points in your post but I would like to point out that i think your misreading what scotty said.

 

He is NOT talking about Buddhist Schools of Cultivation but Taoist Alchemy. He simply said that Buddhist enlightenment is the first step in some schools of Taoist Alchemy.

 

I personally could not call that misinformation as if I know every single teaching, lineage, and branch of Taoist Alchemy to ever exist. I personally will give some leeway to people sharing their personal experience and whatever method they were taught. Just because I was never taught it (nor know it) does not mean it does not exist. I think this thread has turned into a competition of what is better, best or to be debunked, and that's not useful to a broad understanding of meditation methods.

 

Again, I agree with many of your points. Nicely said overall.

 

In that case I did not misunderstand it. The earlier remark, for me, implies that you don't transform the body in buddhism, which is not the case. What Daoist schools make the claim - name them, what teachers? With that in hand the readers can go and discuss with those, examining if they got their concepts and definitions in order, or if this is just another misunderstanding/superiority-complex throughout the Daoist-Buddhist mutual history.

But just stating "Anonymous X claims that you did Y" is a form of reasoning/accusation that would wither in any court or valid argument.

Second, the words "spirit" and "enlightenment" does not exist in the buddhist texts (pali, sanskrit), so to state that some schools start from the buddhist enlightenment is similar to stating that Africa's Siberia is better than Russia's.

There are designations such as stream entry, the Arhats Nirvana and higher stages of realization. Even Arhats can cultivate all kinds of bodily powers and transformations that necessitate that the body is completely transformed, not to speak of the higher stages or realization.

 

And I have enough experience to not just parrot another's words.

 

 

Mandrake

[Mandrake]

I did dantien breathing for a long time (everyday for a year) and didn't really get anywhere. I also tried mindfulness of breath at the nostrils and found it to be more effective, but I found it difficult to not get "lost" in the breath and space out or get sleepy. Honestly I think the most effective concentration method which forces you to constantly hold attention and stay awake is visualization. It was only until I tried visualization that I realized just how crappy my concentration skill was.

 

This is why I believe it is good to practice two different methods from different categories simultaneously, if one has time (morning, evening). It also has to do with knowing what works in certain conditions: if you are very upset, you may need another method; if you are tired, something else may work better, and so on.

Some people have affinities for methods that are not as suitable for others. A monk told me of an acquintance who had been a photographer, he had difficulties in his meditation until he was assigned a contemplation using space as an object, after which he made quick, quick progress. He had basically stared through a camera lens throughout his professional life, having a circle of space as an object.

 

Different meditations also have different effects on your qi. Some may kickstart it in a way other methods don't do it for you. For me, the white skeleton meditation gave me tons of progress when I added it to my practice and did it in a disciplined fashion for a period. It may not for you, I don't know.

 

With breathing practices counting works for some, for me it was adding a layer of moving conceptualization that long run didn't work for me; counting seems to be an phase for building up enough concentration. For some the area under the nose works great, for some the dan tian; for some non-localized awareness of the breath is the thing.

 

I don't think dan tian breathing is hazardous. It helps you calm activity in bodily areas where you usually in today's world have a mayhem. From that calm you can forget your whole body if you wish to.

 

 

Mandrake

[DanC]

Anyone have any experience with "SO HUM" mantra meditation, inhale SO exhale HUM internally. Its translates into English "I Am That"..

[Simple_Jack]

My experience.

 

I'd rather offer help to those who are interested, than explanations to those who aren't. I'm trying to duck out of this topic, since the truth is painful to those still trying to form their own opinions. But I'll say this...

 

Buddhist enlightenment is the first step in some schools of Taoist alchemy! It's a cultivation of the body, mind and spirit...not just the body and its sensations.

 

Okay leaving this topic now for real. It's not the place. Peace.

Actually in Buddhism, "Buddhist enlightenment," is only completing one aspect of the path towards buddhahood. Buddhism talks of attaining three "buddha-bodies;" the dharmakaya, sambhogakaya, and nirmanakaya. The "perfect rupakaya," is the attainment of both the sambhogakaya and nirmanakaya (yang shen in Taoist terms,) that is only achieved if someone has completely transformed this body of the five elements. The three pure one's in Taoism correspond to the three "buddha-bodies" in Buddhism (the former was influenced by the latter, after this classification was introduced into China.)

 

This article here from meditationexpert.com explains in more detail: My link. An excerpt from that article: "As to the perfect reward body, the rupakaya, this is the result of one's cultivation work and is very difficult to achieve. I mentioned before the thirty-two marks of a Buddha and the eighty detailed physical characteristics. The body of anyone who has succeeded in cultivation, attained the Tao, has undergone a complete physical transformation. This physical body is the reward body.

 

Why is it called the "reward body"? Actually, everyone's body is a "reward body." If throughout one's life one is very comfortable and fortunate, this is the reward of previous virtue. Others may experience a lot of pain and suffering and lead a very pitiful life. Their body is the result of non-virtuous actions in a previous life. Through cultivation work, we transform this karmic reward body.

 

In the Taoist school, they describe the process as getting rid of illness to lengthen one's life and achieving immortality. This is talking about transforming the reward body. Achieving the perfect reward body is gaining complete liberation, changing mortal bones into immortal bones and gaining every kind of super power.

This is extremely difficult to achieve. The perfect reward body is very difficult to cultivate. The Taoist cultivation, opening qi mai, as well as Esoteric cultivation, opening the three channels and seven chakras, both start from the reward body. Samatha and samapatti (stopping and introspection), the Pure Land practice of reciting the Buddha's name and vipassana meditation are all examples of practices which mainly cultivate the dharmakaya. When one cultivates to the point where he or she has at will another body outside of this physical body, this is the sambogakaya or transformation body functioning. This is a very basic overview of the three bodies.

 

The average person who practices Buddhist or Taoist cultivation works on the dharmakaya.

 

The Esoteric school emphasizes the achievement of the three bodies because only when one achieves the three kayas has one successfully completed the Path. This is also called completion in one lifetime. "In one lifetime," means in this one lifetime to settle the question of life and death, to succeed at achieving the three bodies. In theory, this can be done, but in actuality, it is of the utmost difficulty. One must achieve perfection of vinaya (discipline), samadhi and wisdom as well as completely transform this physical body of four elements born of one's parents. Only this can be called completion in one lifetime."

Edited September 4, 2011 by Simple_Jack

[relaxer]

Anyone have any experience with "SO HUM" mantra meditation, inhale SO exhale HUM internally. Its translates into English "I Am That"..

 

 

If you guys haven't read Thomas Cleary's translation of The Secret of the Golden Flower, I would highly recommend it. I'm am just finishing it after having come off a Vipassana retreat and the similarities to what we're talking about here are staggering.

 

I'm coming away with this:

 

Ultimately, awareness/ turning the light around is very subtle. We have our senses and objects in the mind to aid in the movement from gross to subtle, but the whole point seems to be a movement into the essence, the real, which contains no object. It is incredibly subtle but all pervasive. It is just light.

 

The Secret of the Golden Flower contends that breath is the pathway to the Mysterious. As such, even breath is used as an object for a while until in becomes neither external nor internal, it is all pervasive. Time and time again, it reads that this requires incredible diligence and persistence. There is a quote in there that says something like, a day without practice is a day spent walking as a ghost.

 

There might be fast track vehicles to conscious clarity, the quieting of the internal rumbles, but simplicity and subtlety seem key here. I don't trust a practice that steer too far from basic elemental awareness as the vehicle. Mind-based mantra, visualization, and the like seem a bit risky. If we play repetitively in the gross, it is there we plant our garden.

 

Subtlety must unfold of itself in the light of consistent practice. Sharpening, sharpening, sharpening, until there is spontaneous convergence of the wordless. That which is effortless and cannot be named.

 

Call me an idealist, but I think it takes a lot of work and trust and diligence in whatever practice you're working with. If you're jumping around from one thing to another every couple of weeks, it might mean that the universe is trying to tell you something.

 

The breath is gross, the breath is subtle, the breath is essence, the breath is fire, the breath is water. Don't you think? Why not watch something that humble contains such brilliance???

[Everything]

You misunderstand me ( or I am communicating ineffectively). I am suggesting an easier method than trying to still your own mind...Everyone is different as I said, but, If we're talking about mantra meditation, then, The point is that, if someone is having a hard time quieting their thoughts, they can't use their mind (which produces those thoughts) to still itself. The point of mantra is to simply chant the sound current and that sound current acts like a computer hacker and goes in and targets the abberent mental patterns in your subconscious and begins to reorganize them. While you are chanting the mantra, the sound releases prana which often times will put you in a trance state which will help you relax and feel some peacefulness and actually helps you to focus. All the while the mantra (actually the deity of the mantra) is doing the work for you to clean the subconscious garbage. As time goes on and with practice, the mantra will clean out your subconscious and after years of practice, you then have the ability to achieve a still mind while meditating.

 

This misunderstanding illustrates the problem with modern western misunderstanding of meditation that most people seem to have. People think that they have to start meditation from a place of stillness. So, people try and shut off their mind and try and control their thoughts. This is an extreme oversimplification of the process. Stillness was traditionally understood to be the result of years of preliminary meditative techniques. When most people start meditating in a formal way, the first thing that happens is that the subconscious garbage comes to the surface and makes it difficult. This, unfortunately is part of the process. Mantra is an effective tool to help overcome this initial roadblock...

 

Simple Jack has given you some good resources, try those... Good luck...

Oh, that sounds good. The thing is, when I have to focus on study for example my mind goes chaotic. Everything I read is associated with something else distracting me of my work. During meditation I don't have thoughts at all! Its like empty space up there. I just feel, don't think! The more breath cycles I do the quiter my mind gets. Untill a point where I no longer think words or thoughts but I think in flashing images, then a dream wake initiated lucid dream pops up.

[Everything]

Good approach.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Meditation-Erica-Brealey/dp/1844030547

Feedbacks from friends indicate that this is quite a good guide for beginners - it covers most mainstream traditions, with a few simple guided exercises included.

 

I have a copy of it myself. One quote jumped out at me while i was flipping thru its pages just now, just to see if it will suit your enquiry. Its from Unmon, a Zen guy of days gone by...

 

When you walk, just walk.

When you sit, just sit.

Whatever you do,

don't wobble.

 

Thanks

 

Alot of comments here

[Everything]

Its a bit mechanical, but counting breaths. I don't mean to 10 and starting over, I mean up to 100 or 200. As time goes on it gets harder to stay focused.

 

Glenn Morris had a mind scrub practice where you'd count your breaths 1 to 10, in counted as 1, out for 2..etc. BUT if a thought entered your mind, any thought, you'd have to go back to 1. If you practice honestly, getting to 10 isn't easy.

 

Likewise there are non meditational ways to hone concentration. Count mentally up to 100, 1,2, 3.. then down by 2's 100, 98, 96, then up by odd 1..3..5.. You can play around w/ it, adding or subtracting 3's, 4's, etc. The mind rebells and wanders. Try to do it while distracted w/ TV or radio, very hard.

 

Traditionally (India) visual focusing was considered to hone the concentration. Staying focused on a pebble, calligraphy, or flame.

Lol, I tried the visual focusing. It just hurt my eyes and after getting used to it the visual blurred after a while. I saw hypnagogic imagery which blurred out the object of focus.

[Simple_Jack]

.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[dawei]

In that case I did not misunderstand it.

You'll just have to take up your battle with the original poster of the comment. I have no side to the matter; just pointed out a mis-reading (or maybe it's a mis-writing). It seems both sides further clarified their points. Feel free to continue their discussion if you want.

Edited September 4, 2011 by dawei