Qi gong without Gong

[forestofclarity]

So a while ago, I decided to drop all of my energy practices and stick with simple meditation. Mainly I practice in the Buddhist tradition. But then I was reading the Book of Balance and Harmony and was struck, as though hit by a bolt of thunder, by this excerpt:

 

When the human mind is calm and stable, before it is affected by things, it is merged with the celestial design; this is the subtlety of the absolute. Once it is affected by things, this is partiality, this is change of the absolute.

 

When you are calm and stable, and careful of attention, the celestial design is always clear, open awareness is obscured; then you have autonomy of action and can deal with whatever arises. With the maturation of practice of calm stability, one spontaneously arrives at the true restoration of the infinite, where the subtle responsive function of the absolute is clear and the design of the universe and all things is complete in oneself.

 

I can sense the spirit of Lao and Zhuang in these lines. I don't say a "Taoist" spirit, because then we already have partiality. If we make things Taoist and Buddhist, then we have imposed a human made pattern on the world.

 

This excerpt got me wondering about the age old debate of intentional practices vs. unintentional practices. I've been toying with the idea of late that the issue with energy isn't that our energies aren't flowing in the right pattern, but that we attempt to impose a pattern on them at all.

 

So it seems that the issue is not which pattern to impose, but in ceasing patterns and allowing the natural flow to appear.

 

What say the Taobums?

Edited September 3, 2011 by forestofemptiness

[ChiDragon]

Mainly I practice in the Buddhist tradition.

 

What is the Buddhist tradition....???

[lifeforce]

then we have imposed a human made pattern on the world.

 

Yes, and it spoils everything.

I'm definitely with you on this.

When we categorize, divide, label and separate, it creates tension, aggression and conflict.

It's much better to see the similarities, instead of the differences.

[lifeforce]

 

This excerpt got me wondering about the age old debate of intentional practices vs. unintentional practices. I've been toying with the idea of late that the issue with energy isn't that our energies aren't flowing in the right pattern, but that we attempt to impose a pattern on them at all.

 

So it seems that the issue is not which pattern to impose, but in ceasing patterns and allowing the natural flow to appear.

 

What say the Taobums?

 

I think what you have described is wu wei. Non-action= non-imposing, just letting whatever happens do so naturally, without interference.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Fire Dragon]

Yes many more dedicated than me says:

 

Qigong and taoist yoga is not so much of building up something, but instead it is about taking away things and patterns to find the natural way being like a baby!

[Harmonious Emptiness]

When the human mind is calm and stable, before it is affected by things, it is merged with the celestial design; this is the subtlety of the absolute. Once it is affected by things, this is partiality, this is change of the absolute.

 

When you are calm and stable, and careful of attention, the celestial design is always clear, open awareness is obscured; then you have autonomy of action and can deal with whatever arises. With the maturation of practice of calm stability, one spontaneously arrives at the true restoration of the infinite, where the subtle responsive function of the absolute is clear and the design of the universe and all things is complete in oneself.

 

I find this approach to appear in what I think can safely be called the most authoritative Taoist writings. It might also be said that the more southern school/water/energetic methods are transmitted by teachers rather than books so they are not written down in very many "authoritative texts." Nonetheless, I do have faith that the masters like Chang Po Tuan lead many people to great attainment with the "sitting and forgetting" practices.

 

I tend to view chi kung as martial arts were described in the Shaolin Grandmasters Text (http://www.amazon.com/Shaolin-Grandmasters-Text-History-Philosophy/dp/0975500902).. ie., it's just exercise to keeps your body and physical discipline tuned up so that you can pursue the higher goals without having to worry about other basic human necessities, like standing up (at least literally, if not figuratively)..

 

Another important point to the OP, imo, is that in the "intentional practices" a lot of the time people are trying to reach different "signs along the roadpath" like Siddhis which, I believe, arise naturally after disciplined "sitting and forgetting," BUT, there are also a lot of things Taoist masters learn to do beyond the meditation cushion which do require "intentional practices," though it might be said that those practices are learned as part of the VOCATION of being a Taoist shaman or priest and so for most, cultivating shen and xin (heart mind) are all that need to be focused on.

 

I think there's a lot of truth in what Zen master Zibo said (approx.) "You need to cultivate the heart of Confucianism before approaching the Zen mind. And if you haven't realized the Mind of Zen, what time do you have for Taoism?"

 

I rarely read books in a chronological order myself though anyways..... Knowing where we're going helps to know where we are too sometimes..

[doc benway]

So a while ago, I decided to drop all of my energy practices and stick with simple meditation. Mainly I practice in the Buddhist tradition. But then I was reading the Book of Balance and Harmony and was struck, as though hit by a bolt of thunder, by this excerpt:

 

 

 

I can sense the spirit of Lao and Zhuang in these lines. I don't say a "Taoist" spirit, because then we already have partiality. If we make things Taoist and Buddhist, then we have imposed a human made pattern on the world.

 

This excerpt got me wondering about the age old debate of intentional practices vs. unintentional practices. I've been toying with the idea of late that the issue with energy isn't that our energies aren't flowing in the right pattern, but that we attempt to impose a pattern on them at all.

 

So it seems that the issue is not which pattern to impose, but in ceasing patterns and allowing the natural flow to appear.

 

What say the Taobums?

I agree with you.

 

When we first come to cultivation, it is generally from a place of social and cultural conditioning that is so profound that it is difficult to even recognize it is there. Much of the work that we do, whether it be meditation, energy work, physical work, breathing work, seems to me to be a way to reintegrate the awareness with the body (and everything in between - emotional, spiritual, psychological, energetic, ....). All of these different techniques of cultivation seem to me to clear the crap that has been put there since childhood that separates us from what we are. Once these "blockages," distractions, conditioning (whatever you want to call it) clears, we can recognize who and what we are and appreciate the fact that we don't really need to do anything because it is all already there. The only thing is, we have to do these things before we can realize that there's nothing to do!

The paradox of cultivation.

And the crap is always creeping back in so maintenance is necessary in some form or another.

[goldisheavy]

So a while ago, I decided to drop all of my energy practices and stick with simple meditation. Mainly I practice in the Buddhist tradition. But then I was reading the Book of Balance and Harmony and was struck, as though hit by a bolt of thunder, by this excerpt:

 

 

 

I can sense the spirit of Lao and Zhuang in these lines. I don't say a "Taoist" spirit, because then we already have partiality. If we make things Taoist and Buddhist, then we have imposed a human made pattern on the world.

 

This excerpt got me wondering about the age old debate of intentional practices vs. unintentional practices. I've been toying with the idea of late that the issue with energy isn't that our energies aren't flowing in the right pattern, but that we attempt to impose a pattern on them at all.

 

So it seems that the issue is not which pattern to impose, but in ceasing patterns and allowing the natural flow to appear.

 

What say the Taobums?

 

That's a brilliant excerpt.

 

The excerpt talks about the nature of intent. Ordinarily we feel that our intent is severed in two ways. It's severed in time, meaning we perceive our intentions to each have a beginning and an end. And it's severed in space, meaning, we perceive our intentions to have personal boundaries, just like each human body is limited in space, likewise we perceive our intention to have a similar limit.

 

Unconsciously we also know that our intent cannot be arbitrary, but that it must flow along a conditioned route. Thus, the hand cannot touch the mouth without rotating the shoulder.

 

The true condition of intent is that it's neither severed in any way nor conditioned. When the person consciously realizes this, it feels as though the entire universe is one's own will, and that the will is effortless. One no longer thinks of intent as a force that overcomes resistance. There is no resistance and no force. Intent always manifests effortlessly and even effort itself is an an effortless appearance without any predetermined meaning such as "overcoming."

 

So it's not quite correct to say that one must cease patterns. Patterns always appear. What ceases are the mistaken ideas about the severed nature of intent and about intent being forced to only flow through fated routes.

Edited September 3, 2011 by goldisheavy

[Birch]

I agree with you.

 

When we first come to cultivation, it is generally from a place of social and cultural conditioning that is so profound that it is difficult to even recognize it is there. Much of the work that we do, whether it be meditation, energy work, physical work, breathing work, seems to me to be a way to reintegrate the awareness with the body (and everything in between - emotional, spiritual, psychological, energetic, ....). All of these different techniques of cultivation seem to me to clear the crap that has been put there since childhood that separates us from what we are. Once these "blockages," distractions, conditioning (whatever you want to call it) clears, we can recognize who and what we are and appreciate the fact that we don't really need to do anything because it is all already there. The only thing is, we have to do these things before we can realize that there's nothing to do!

The paradox of cultivation.

And the crap is always creeping back in so maintenance is necessary in some form or another.

 

Good post Steve!

Although I'm not entirely sure about what I'd term "crap creep". I guess because I'm of insufficient cultivation, yes i find it does "return" except i don't reckon it's "returning" really. What I might be doing is buying it back. Now what I have to figure out is why. Why am I buying it when it's so obviously ridiculous?

Time to go gopher-hunting methinks:-)

[joeblast]

Dropping patterns? Its ALL patterns, no matter how chaotic. Hence "there is no knot which cannot be untied." So it becomes a choosing of patterns, even if you are but "following the natural way" that is still a pattern.

 

Cultivating calm, objective discernment is a good way to see clearly and recognize which patterns will be more beneficial and which will be less so. Cant do that without good regular doses of self inquiry

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Qi Gong (Chi Kung) without Gong/Kung??

 

So.... Qi/Chi!

 

 

Just Breathe.

[dawei]

Qi Gong (Chi Kung) without Gong/Kung??

 

So.... Qi/Chi!

 

Just Breathe.

"It depends what you want to do"...

 

It always depends. There is not really a competition among styles or practices as some have suggested. It just depends on what you want to do, achieve, and what works or you feel works.

 

I worked with my Qigong master today who brought out some Japanese sticks and wanted to display 'rooting vs grounding'; and then hit with 'muscle' vs 'emotion' vs 'mind' vs 'qi' vs 'shen' vs 'breath'... and then he showed how to combine any of them... and all of them. It depends...

[Protector]

Ego thread, how nice

Can't help but think of Chakras and Taiji again, not following a pattern is a pattern

maybe being dead is the only way to finally let go

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Ego thread, how nice

Can't help but think of Chakras and Taiji again, not following a pattern is a pattern

maybe being dead is the only way to finally let go

 

It's not the destination but the journey that matters.

 

Once we've "finally let go" all that struggling, suffering, pain, and experience can go into greater things.