Sealing the dantien!

[73543_1494798777]

Hey all. Im new. New to chi and new to this forum. Im having problems "shutting down" after intense chi experiences. I think it should be isolated in the lower dantien, but it tends to slip out a bit. Feels kind of sloppy. Are there some good well known standard techniques for locking the chi up tight? It seems dangerous when it leaves me in an uncontrolled fashion and transfers to other people. Legit advice is appreciated! Thanks

[Mal]

moved into discussion

[Informer]

[hagar]

[FixXxer1846]

Was just looking this up, as I seldom do it. Sometimes after a long session I get so hot and there's so much "buzzing" all over the place that it's totally impossible to sleep.

 

So... in Zhan Zhuang they put their hands on their navel area for for 2-5 minutes after each session and just relax. I never had the patience for that (and all the other details) and even without it a ton of heat was generated that I would feel for two days after. But like I said, probably gets more important as you progress. Was doing it for 30-40 minutes or so at the time. No sleep only gets a problem after several hours at a time.

 

As for Chia's instructions:

 

"Concentrate on your navel as you place your right fist there. Then rotate your fist thirty-six times clockwise, allowing the circle to grow larger until it is no more than six inches in diameter (not higher than the heart nor lower than the pelvis). Then reverse the direction of rotation and rotate twenty-four times in a counterclockwise direction, gradually shrinking the circle until it returns to the navel. A woman reverses the order of rotation, first rotating counterclockwise thirty-six times and reversing the direction and shrinking the circle while rotating clockwise twenty-four times back to the navel. To determine direction imagine a clock at your navel. Women finish by collecting the energy in the navel and circling it 36 times counterclockwise and 24 times clockwise."

 

Chia picked the 36 times because this is the amount of rotations he could feel when an energy center opened... or something like that. I don't think it's that important, but I prefer Chia's method. Faster than the one in Zhan Zhuang - because Chia doesn't say anything about the speed you can rotate... Hehe.

Edited September 5, 2011 by FixXxer1845

[Kali Yuga]

Sorry but in my experience Chia is nice for a beginner to internal arts but as a practice its worthless crap.

[laughingblade]

Back on topic - in many Zhan Zhuang (standing) practises sealing at the navel/LDT is common. Not just Chia. Right hand over left, hold gently for a few minutes, You can rub/rotate the hands if it helps. Lam Kam Chuen recommends this in his Chi Kung - Way Of Power book.

 

There are plenty of other rubbing/patting techniques in books - Eric Yudelove's 100 days book has a nice selection amongst others. I like to rub my hands together to warm them then rub kidneys x100, sacrum x100, then sole of each foot x100.

 

Basically try out some of these sealing exercises and see what helps you.

 

Oh, and be sure to warm p properly beforehand - jumping into powerful practises without loosening up your joints and muscles will make it more likely that energy doesn't move smoothly or consistently and 'sticks'.

 

Regards

Rich

 

Sorry but in my experience Chia is nice for a beginner to internal arts but as a practice its worthless crap.

OP is a beginner.

 

Chia has a large number of practises within Healing Tao - which one specifically is "in your experience" worthless crap?

[FixXxer1846]

Sorry but in my experience Chia is nice for a beginner to internal arts but as a practice its worthless crap.

 

Damned, 20 more posts before I can add a signature. Ow well.. Hopefully my posts get decent Google rankings.

 

Anyway, I've read a lot of flak here against Mantak Chia. Seems to be just people spewing their uninformed opinions or people who like to follow something more exotic (less well kown). I have a whole database on different styles of qigong. Experimented with many and made detailed notes. Most are way way way too vague. Qigong mainly is very primitive and unscientific. That undoubtedly has a lot to do with money, because eeryone is trying to make a living. Move your hands like this, think about this, gently press this one single acupuncture point and you'll be superhealthy. It all comes down to "do as I say... don't question the master". Don't figure out better ways.

 

Fact is, Chia's system can actually fix all kinds of diseases that modern science cannot and you don't have to enirely "believe". Plenty of clear and personal testimonies on it, in contrast to virtually any other qigong system. The orbit is based on fact... Ren Mai and Du Mai actually exist, as do all the individual acupuncture points (which too little emphasis is put on). They really are connected to all the other meridians. And in Chia's system, opening the orbit is phase I. He teaches at least 4 other stages, at least back in the early 1980s. Often you read that opening the orbit doesn't complete cure a disease, but by stage III this is virtually always the case. And most of these stages actually deal with opening meridians that are KNOWN to exist - can't vouch for the tan tiens but it seems a pretty safe bet they exist. The microcosmic orbit is very powerful and much more detailed than Zhan Zhuang (which imo is made unneccasry complicated, just to promote the idea that you need pay to see a master. Also "secret" info is left out). The latter won't clear blockages that well if they are serious. Also, acupressure is absolutely essential in cases of serious blockages. In my case it was even much more effective(and quicker) than needles.

 

My problem with qigong is that modern science doesn't get involved with it. And because of that you don't have any truly good books. Chia's books absolutely suck even though the basic information is incredible. The information is spread out over more than a dozen books and they are loaded with what can easily be seen as superstition. You can't even figure out the steps from all his different books... you have to study wih him (or read an outside book from 1980 of some MD who worked with Chia and one or two other masters). You are asked to "believe" instead of him really backing up what he says, whether it is by relating his personal experiences, those of his students, or studies that have been published. Hell, I myself can show Ryodoraku measurements to people... That's the very least that could have been done.

 

We in the West can do things much better. Looks at the martial arts. Try comparing MMA or Krav Maga to the old martial arts... no comparison. For the first time you can REALLY learn to fight. The BJJ aspect, especially the no-gi version is still being improved everyday. That's the kind of adventurous attitude we also need with qigong. But qigong is more boring of course. Chia, Chunyi Lin, Lam Kam Chuen... they give us serious info that for the first time will allow anyone to REALLY fix themselves. So find out what works. Integrate their tachings... and science needs to get involved.

 

My two cents.

 

Still would love to know what people fixed about themselves with what system and if they feel their tan tien, with or without heat.

[Sloppy Zhang]

My own couple of cents....

 

I don't think "seal" is the right direction you should be going for. I think it's more productive, safer, more healthy, and more holistic to learn how to "settle" the dantien.

 

If you have had an intense chi experience/practice, then naturally your chi is going to want to keep jumping all over the place. You need to stop, stand/sit, focus on the dantien, and just have the chi pool there and settle.

 

Keep in mind, in some cases I have had practice sessions in which the settling phase took LONGER than the practice. Seriously. Don't stop until you are settled. If you get up and get going and blah blah, you're going to scatter what you've just spent working on. And I mean, I guess you could build it up at a later practice. But that's beside the point...

 

Let the chi settle in the dantien. Some things that help with this are-

 

1) Being able to calm the body, and listen to it

2) Being able to calm the mind

 

IMO/IME, it all ties together. The more you can calm your mind, the easier you'll be able to calm your chi after practice, because you won't feel antsy and won't feel the need to jump around again.

 

So think "settling" rather than "sealing". If you have hurricane force chi, you're going to be hard pressed to find a container that can seal that up. But if you wait 'till the winds and rain calm down, you're going to be much better off.

 

 

Also keep in mind that the dantien is the center where all of the channels that nourish the physical body pass through. So to some extent, the point of nourishing the chi in the dantien is so that it can spread to other parts of the body and nourish them. If you have unsettled, explosive, hurricane chi, it's going to shoot out every which way and it might disperse and be no good.

 

If you've got gentle, flowing chi that's pooled in the dantien, then it will flow where it is needed. As your practice builds and your health gets better, you may feel it leave less, because it will have less places to tend to.

 

So some chi "leakage" is okay. But again, "leakage" isn't the way you should be thinking about it. "Nourishing", kind of like how you water plants with a garden hose. Water ain't "leaking" out the garden hose faucet

Edited September 5, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[konchog uma]

Sorry but in my experience Chia is nice for a beginner to internal arts but as a practice its worthless crap.

 

really? i can never finish a book of his i pick up. in contrast to that i am reading a book on meditation and internal alchemy, that is of similar length to some chia books, that i am almost finished with in 3 days (tao & longevity by huai-chin nan). So its not that i can't do it, my body just never lets me take in mantak chia! it doesnt like him for some reason

[73543_1494798777]

Hmm yes, my problem is that at times I have exactly the hurricane chi. My angry fire gorilla with bombs strapped to his chest doesnt like staying in its dantien cage. Thats fine. BUT I dont like how it leaves and hits other people. Ive seen some friends involuntarily "possesed" by rouge chi that left me. I felt it leave and saw the reaction in the other person. Big personality changes, not always good. I figured reinforcing the cage was the best way to deal with the gorilla but calming him down is perhaps the better option. Thanks for the input

[NeiChuan]

Sorry but in my experience Chia is nice for a beginner to internal arts but as a practice its worthless crap.

 

I Think Chia's a terrible start. Or horrible to ever begin.

 

Dangerous, and I believe gives a wrong impression of how practice should be approached.

 

If done, should be practiced with caution.

[laughingblade]

double monkey-fingers

Edited September 6, 2011 by laughingblade

[laughingblade]

[FixXxer1846]

I Think Chia's a terrible start. Or horrible to ever begin.

 

Dangerous, and I believe gives a wrong impression of how practice should be approached.

 

If done, should be practiced with caution.

It's dangerous (supposedly; pushed pretty hard without problems for now) because it's the most powerful. First time I did the orbit for 15-20 minutes (Chunyi Lin style) I went to sleep, woke up, and felt a thunderous energy running up along my back with an great internal hissing sound at the base of the neck. Still took quite a while for the physiological changes to follow... Tons of energy are required for that it seems.

 

Still regret it I didn't do it for 2 hours the first time, just to feel the energy surge even better (was gone after the 2nd or third time). But that's the real deal right there. Everyone will know immediately that it works and that's what most people need. Other forms of qigong, with the exception of Zhan Zhuang, don't cut it for me. I don't notice anything at all and in fact, nobody can even scientifically show what it is exactly that they are supposed to do. It's elderly gymnastics in many cases. Not saying they don't work, but I want fire, explosives... we're all adults here; no need for holding hands. People go psychotic? Too bad... You should have paid attention to the instructions. And in most cases damage can be repaired. Should we ban cars also because people can get hurt?

[laughingblade]

I want fire, explosives... we're all adults here; no need for holding hands. People go psychotic? Too bad... You should have paid attention to the instructions. And in most cases damage can be repaired. Should we ban cars also because people can get hurt?

Paying attention to the instructions? Well these systems are certainly not all in the public domain, and attempting to work out how to progress safely is hard, if even possible. So there aren't clear instructions in most cases. Who do you expect to look after you when you're a psychotic space case? Your Mom? The state?

 

You're also ignoring probability; these aren't equal risks - chance of getting killed by a car: 2.1%. Chances of getting killed playing Russian Roulette: 83%. I'd suggest your chances of screwing up by blasting away are on the high side: i.e. you almost certainly will experience severe debilitating effects.

 

Irresponsibile and lacking compassion, if you don't mind me saying...

 

Rich

[FixXxer1846]

Paying attention to the instructions? Well these systems are certainly not all in the public domain, and attempting to work out how to progress safely is hard, if even possible. So there aren't clear instructions in most cases. Who do you expect to look after you when you're a psychotic space case? Your Mom? The state?

 

You're also ignoring probability; these aren't equal risks - chance of getting killed by a car: 2.1%. Chances of getting killed playing Russian Roulette: 83%. I'd suggest your chances of screwing up by blasting away are on the high side: i.e. you almost certainly will experience severe debilitating effects.

 

Irresponsibile and lacking compassion, if you don't mind me saying...

 

Rich

 

Interesting. The odds of getting killed in a car crash in the Netherlands in 2010 was 0,004% (640/16,000,000). Better be careful with taking answers from "Silly Jilly" at Yahoo Answers. As for Russian Roulette guess it depends how often you pull the trigger. Should be 1 in 6 if you try once.

 

Anyway... the instructions actually are in the public domain. Chia's writings might be all over the place but take a book like Awaken Healing Energy of 1983 and you have all the info you need to get started and not fry your brain (although I think it could be better in many places)... if people actually read. And so what if the info is not in the public domain? Then we experiment, experiment and experiment until it is in the public domain and everybody knows EXACTLY how to do things - because that is where it should be. "Secret knowledge" to "protect the people" is the biggest load of political crap on the planet, except in (true) national security/war situations.

 

People are always obsessed by secret knowledge... It's wrong when hundreds of millions of people are suffering of diseases that the holy man in his cave knows how to take away. People are resposible for themselves and this energy system is part of who we are. So we better learn to work with it. Accidents will happen... so what? Part of life.

 

Acting like a control freak and superficial thinking, if you don't mind me saying...

Edited September 6, 2011 by FixXxer1845

[joeblast]

[Informer]

Seal it with Love. (IE Inner Smile)

[laughingblade]

Acting like a control freak and superficial thinking, if you don't mind me saying...

You're welcome

[Aetherous]

About sealing the energy in the lower dantien...if you focus within there, it will cause energy to rise out from it. This is normal and not a problem...it's qi activating and beginning to circulate. Alchemists call it all sorts of things, like yellow sprouts (if I remember correctly) Being around other people will tend to cause the energy to react...so if you can, spend some time away from people for a little while after your session so the energy can assimilate.

 

A couple things that work well for me is putting the hands on the belly, right outside of left. Imagining that your head is inside of the belly area. I've noticed that if you "look down" into the dantien, it's like activating the energy of the upper dantien and causing qi to rise....so imagining the head is in the belly helps the qi not to rise too much.

 

Connecting the attention in the lower dantien with the legs and feet helps it to descend. And focusing on the sensations, instead of locating the awareness within the area. Focusing on the sensations, again, takes the upper dantien energy out of the equation...whereas locating your awareness is using that energy and causing qi to rise.

 

So those are some ideas for you to experiment with.

[宁]

I seal mine with duck tape every once in a while..

[Birch]

Interesting. The odds of getting killed in a car crash in the Netherlands in 2010 was 0,004% (640/16,000,000). Better be careful with taking answers from "Silly Jilly" at Yahoo Answers. As for Russian Roulette guess it depends how often you pull the trigger. Should be 1 in 6 if you try once.

 

Anyway... the instructions actually are in the public domain. Chia's writings might be all over the place but take a book like Awaken Healing Energy of 1983 and you have all the info you need to get started and not fry your brain (although I think it could be better in many places)... if people actually read. And so what if the info is not in the public domain? Then we experiment, experiment and experiment until it is in the public domain and everybody knows EXACTLY how to do things - because that is where it should be. "Secret knowledge" to "protect the people" is the biggest load of political crap on the planet, except in (true) national security/war situations.

 

People are always obsessed by secret knowledge... It's wrong when hundreds of millions of people are suffering of diseases that the holy man in his cave knows how to take away. People are resposible for themselves and this energy system is part of who we are. So we better learn to work with it. Accidents will happen... so what? Part of life.

 

Acting like a control freak and superficial thinking, if you don't mind me saying...

I think that realising that there are well-documented dangers associated with different meditation types is important. There is also IMO a need for better understanding of what different systems are designed to do. As for who will look after the space cadets, well if they're training a formal system with a teacher, IMO the teacher bears some responsibility (shared with the practitioner IMO) whereas if they're DIY from books and online I guess places that can recognize what's going on and help are available. AYP has a good support forum. I think TTBs is pretty good at it too. My best call would be to practice a well-balanced system that might take a bit of effort but that teaches you as you go.

[GreytoWhite]

I seal mine with duck tape every once in a while..

 

Duct tape can be used for everything! Well... except sealing ducts.

[Desert Eagle]

In my experience, if you cultivate anything to save it some place, it will be lost.

 

What I do, and this is also suggested by my teacher is to let the chi not be stored in the LDT, but fuse it into the bones, in the entire body. Let it merge with the marrow. It works and is simple and straight forward.

 

h

 

That sounds good, is there a technique to do that?