Taoist Relationships

[witch]

Oh come on guys, lay off.

 

What an idiot, at 62 wanting to start a family! He really must think he is immortal.

[witch]

Here you can see and listen!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQuU0GSbUg4

 

Man, did I dodge a bullet! Thank goodness I'm fat.

 

And with that ad, all he's going to get is this:

 

Edited September 11, 2011 by witch

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[tulku]

Well, now, I'm more on the lefthand side of things, so I'm not going to give advice on finding a loving relationship. But I do have a few tips on men. What you say about your experiences doesn't surprise me at all. However, it doesn't matter what men want. It matters what you want. If you want to take their jing, they will be your slaves. That is the power of a woman in her forties. Grasp that power.

 

what if a man doesn't want to lose his jing?

 

think about a hot young stud with a mountainous sword and had trained so rigorously that he can't ejaculate anymore

 

will you then be a slave to that man begging for his jing?

[tulku]

I should explain the source of my prejudice. From poking around here and other places, the problem with taoist men is that they are doing something unnatural. Most are trying to get their sexual energy up into the top of their craniums.

 

Some are here because they heard getting sixth chakra energy will help them pick up chicks in bars. I'm not kidding about this. It's a somewhat popular pick-up artist technique.

 

Some are here because they want kewl siddhis. Not pointing any fingers or anything. But someone who classifies women in the same category as cigarettes and strong drink doesn't understand the goddess nature of women. Or of people in general, for that matter.

 

Some fry their nether regions through bad technique, and then they get all testy () and belligerent and have physical difficulties too.

 

Some manage to get their energy to rise, but then get kundalini psychosis, causing hypersexuality and delusions of grandeur. Not that I'm throwing stones on that one!

 

Some do manage to get it to the top of their heads, and then it can drive them bananas.

 

Some get it to the top of their heads and then that's all they want to do, have crown chakra orgasms. Not really circulating the energy.

 

And finally, the ones who do manage to get the energy up safely to their heads, transmuted, are usually doing it under the tutelage of a celibate teacher. And those monk teachers tend to have a dim view of women. The attitude tends to rub off.

 

Most taoist men are fine, but it's no wonder that you came up with a few bad apples.

 

this is a really sexist remark

 

those monk teachers tend to have a dim view of non-cultivating women but they show the upmost respect to divine female cultivators

[witch]

what if a man doesn't want to lose his jing?

 

think about a hot young stud with a mountainous sword and had trained so rigorously that he can't ejaculate anymore

 

will you then be a slave to that man begging for his jing?

 

No, I'd look for someone who wasn't so damn mingy. I'm interested in someone who is both willing to give energy and able to receive it back.

 

GoldenFlower, I'm being harsh with Starjumper because he hit on me a while back. Although I certainly am judgmental in general.

[witch]

Well he maybe believe he will live another 20 years to see his genes grow up

and if you get 200 years you can start to think again to have a familiy.

 

Raising children takes a tremendous amount of energy. It's not something a 62-year-old should undertake unless he can afford a full-time nanny to help his wife. Although maybe he can.

[GreytoWhite]

Raising children takes a tremendous amount of energy. It's not something a 62-year-old should undertake unless he can afford a full-time nanny to help his wife. Although maybe he can.

 

My teacher's grandfather was on his fifth family when he died at 111. Then again most of the men in his family live into their hundreds and spawn at least a dozen children over their lives. The Mayan elders decreed it's time to repopulate!

[mantis]

Keep in mind that most men who present themselves as taoists are just Westerners who like the label and wear it over whatever they really are without this "whatever they are" being affected in the least. Some have picked up a few abhorrently wrong sexual practices from rather questionable sources. Most are circumcised and quite unaware that none of the taoist texts have ever been geared toward circumcised men, who need a totally different practice. Real taoist bedchamber arts manuals have not been translated, to my knowledge, the ones that are available are mostly bull, or else fragmented snippets of knowledge useless in the absence of the whole enchilada.

 

The only real taoists of supreme attainment whom I've met (not sexually, alas, all three are happily married) are plain vanilla sex-wise. Just like me. Sex has been invented by tao "first and foremost" -- it is the core of her most cherished endeavors -- so anyone trying to reinvent it, "improve" on it, make it "beat the real thing" better be VERY sure that they know what they're doing better than tao does. Tao invented plain vanilla. The very best chocolate syrup on top is useless if the ice cream itself is something you can't taste. Strawberries and cream on top are only masking the fact. Learn to taste it as is -- if you can't, that's your practice, learning what tao means when she says "sex." (I mean a generic "you," not anyone personally and particularly.)

 

I'm uncircumcised and curious on what genuine source you might have on the taoist sexual practices.

[Taomeow]

I'm uncircumcised and curious on what genuine source you might have on the taoist sexual practices.

 

Please see post # 43 in this thread.

[三江源]

Haha,

 

"Ey yo gramps"

 

The Conncept of Dual Soul is something which is anchored in the mind here in the west.

A conncept of finding "true love". The perfect "soul mate". The other "half".

Its nice to feel for the lonely there is someone "for me".

Its nice to feel choosen "to have" a perfect "soul mate".

 

Also there are two ways : Find Sex first then love - Find Love first then Sex.

I think the first one is easier to archieve. For pure love go to you next church and temple and try to ask the nuns and monks.

 

 

Ay up Friend. It happens that sex and love can arrive simultaneously. How about that. oh yes. Refer to Shen for howso's.

[三江源]

PS. I dont think most men are circumcised?

 

Ok, googled it. about 85% of world male population uncircumsised, apparently.

[Enishi]

The way I see it, there are millions of people all over the world that you're compatible with, so there's definitely no "true love".

 

Spend a couple weeks getting to know someone first to see if there's enough in common before hoping under the sheets. After having sex a couple times people will naturally bond, your brain will release tons of Oxytocin.

[三江源]

The way I see it, there are millions of people all over the world that you're compatible with, so there's definitely no "true love".

 

Spend a couple weeks getting to know someone first to see if there's enough in common before hoping under the sheets. After having sex a couple times people will naturally bond, your brain will release tons of Oxytocin.

 

Yebbut, really no.

 

There's 'get along with fine' and 'learn to love' and 'infatuation' even 'fun!yeh why not" and then there's profound compatibility, which is a rare find, and could be called true love.

 

 

Oxytocin release wears off after a while, it's not depth endurance bonding.

 

 

"Plenty of Fish" consolation prize belief is for people whose palates are dormant and dont know what they are eating from cushion filling.

 

 

Hence divorce now being at about .. is 45%?!?!?!

[Enishi]

Yebbut, really no.

 

There's 'get along with fine' and 'learn to love' and 'infatuation' even 'fun!yeh why not" and then there's profound compatibility, which is a rare find, and could be called true love.

 

 

Oxytocin release wears off after a while, it's not depth endurance bonding.

 

 

"Plenty of Fish" consolation prize belief is for people whose palates are dormant and dont know what they are eating from cushion filling.

 

 

Hence divorce now being at about .. is 45%?!?!?!

 

I think it's certainly possible that matchups with profound compatibility are possible. If someone attracts such to themselves, all the better. However, I don't think its good to actively worry about and search for such things.

 

In terms of divorce, it used to be the case that it was much harder to have sex outside of marriage due to religion and lack of contraceptives. In addition, it was also much harder to get divorced.

 

At the moment there is indeed too much divorce and friction between people, but the fact that relationships tend to fizzle out after a couple years, or a couple decades, is pretty much just the normal way of things IMO. Even if a sexual relationship ends it doesn't mean you can't still be friends with someone. It's the same case with many married couples who stay together, the interest in sex may not be there but they stay together because they're good friends.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Enishi

[三江源]

I think it's certainly possible that matchups with profound compatibility are possible. If someone attracts such to themselves, all the better. However, I don't think its good to actively worry about and search for such things.

No need to worry and search. Just cultivate the tao.

 

In terms of divorce, it used to be the case that it was much harder to have sex outside of marriage due to religion and lack of contraceptives. In addition, it was also much harder to get divorced.

 

 

 

At the moment there is indeed too much divorce and friction between people, but the fact that relationships tend to fizzle out after a couple years, or a couple decades, is pretty much just the normal way of things IMO.

 

What is it that constitues this 'norm' though? "just' the norm... what does the word 'just' imply? Fatalism?

 

Even if a sexual relationship ends it doesn't mean you can't still be friends with someone. It's the same case with many married couples who stay together, the interest in sex may not be there but they stay together because they're good friends.

 

As taoists we know how to make sexual life endure. We arent subject to whim and fast fadings, hothouse flowers that dont stand the test of time or a bit of weather is not what alchemy aims for.

[Enishi]

Improving sexual life and relationships by Taoist alchemy is certainly possible, but expecting that it will allow a sexual relationship with another specific person to last on a lifelong basis sounds to me like a mixing of Taoism with the Western search for a lifelong romance.

 

Again, it's not that I don't think such things are impossible, just that by itself it's not something I would want to have as a goal. I did at one point and feel now that the aftermath of mistaking strong passion for a deeper connection is much worse than the payoff of finding it.

 

In terms of breakups being normal, consider that even in psychologically healthy tribes like the Trobriand Islanders, young people would go through several relationships before "settling down", and even then divorce sometimes happened after. I feel now that allowing for the strong possibility you will go through several relationships in one lifetime and adopting an approach of equanimity towards such is better in the long run.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Enishi

[Taomeow]

PS. I dont think most men are circumcised?

 

Ok, googled it. about 85% of world male population uncircumsised, apparently.

 

Right, but I was referring to the situation in the USA where most practitioners of "Western taoism" currently reside, the only country in the world circumcising the majority of male infants for non-religious reasons. American males who are in their 40's today happen to have been born at the peak of the trend when 90% of American male babies were circumcised. You got lucky in England because even though the practice was first introduced there in the 19th century as a "cure for masturbation," it didn't take root and disappeared rather quickly. Here, it got cultivated by the medical establishment, under assorted (and frequently changing) "medical reasons." Here's one article I googled up:

 

http://www.circumstitions.com/USA.html

[Enishi]

Forced circumcision of infants is indeed nasty. If the Wilhelm Reich's material is true, such practices cause emotional scarring.

[三江源]

Improving sexual life by Taoist alchemy is certainly possible, but expecting that it will allow a sexual relationship with another specific person to last on a lifelong basis sounds to me like a mixing of Taoism with the Western search for a lifelong romance.

Really? I thought it the other way around, that the western search for lifelong romance was an unconscious longing for something which the soul knows is possible and desirable , but that the western psyche had lost the path.

 

 

Again, it's not that I don't think such things are impossible, just that by itself it's not something I would want to have as a goal. I did at one point and feel now that the aftermath of mistaking strong passion for a deeper connection is much worse than the payoff of finding it.

Yes, I think being goal oriented is asking for trouble, for the ego gets involved so all will go haywire. I'm not sure how strong passion isnt a deep connection. Unless it isnt really authentic strong passion, but actually is mutual complexes colliding to create psychic heat which is unsustainable.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Taomeow]

I've read that in cultures that practice arranged marriages, love becoming a constant in the life of a couple that had been married this way (often without even having met each other before the marriage) is reported by both spouses twice as often as in couples who had chosen "freely" and got married "for love." I think it has something to do with the fact that in arranged-marriage cultures, it is also common to consult astrological charts of both prospective spouses.

 

Here's an example of why "falling in love" and "staying in love" can be quite different processes qi-wise. I have Wood for my main phase, and plenty of Fire. People who are Fire are attracted to me because Wood is their nourishment. I am attracted to them because they are my "child phase," I feel protective toward them. Both the need for nourishment and the willingness/ability to give in one direction are wonderful in a parent-child relationship... and my relationships with Fire people can only be that. If that's mistaken for love between a man and a woman, disappointment follows, because I don't need more Fire, I have plenty of my own, so interacting with Fire people who can take from me but can't give to me leaves me depleted. So, in a perfect arranged-marriage culture, astrology-savvy parents (or their Bazi consultant) would screen out all Fire boys and make sure I don't marry one. Instead, they would seek to remedy a deficiency in my chart by arranging for a Water boy for me who is Wood deficient. He would be nourishing my Wood while I in turn would be balancing out his life's energy by providing the phase of qi it is missing. This would mean stable lasting love, because there's no depletion involved on either side, no give-and-take that takes from one and gives to the other without a reciprocal replenishment of qi.

 

Yeah... in the imperfect world of "for love" marriage, I got Metal, who controls Wood, who can't approach my phase any other way. It's written in the stars that this kind of love can only work if I welcome being controlled. Which I would if I had a Metal deficiency in my chart. Ah but my overall layout of qi is in no need of more Metal, I have enough, any extra is excessive and counterproductive (destructive). So there... I don't believe in love as it is popularly understood because it is pretty much always misunderstood. Love is what replenishes and balances your life's energies while doing the same for your partner. Whatever attracts because the balance is skewed to begin with, so that things roll over to the side to which it is already tilted, is usually mistaken for love, and the reason it doesn't last is, it is the kind of love one feels when jumping off a cliff and flying, going, "so far so good! feels wonderful!!" -- till he or she hits the ground. And hit the ground they will in this scenario. The rest of their "love" is bouncing up and down from the impact, hitting the ground, flying up, hitting the ground, flying up... unless the impact is so severe that love goes splat from the very first contact with reality.

[suninmyeyes]

Ah Taomeow, I dont see you being controlled (from what little I have read you).

Enjoyed reading your post.

I have similar idea of love between couples but it is based on different mental/emotional patterns instead of astrology which I have no significant knowledge of.

PS Just wrote a long reply about astrology based on meditation expirience and erased it all , I am not confident enough to share on forum becouse others dont relly share their meditation expiriences either(or dont have any?). And when they do they are often judged or martyrd. It is almost a taboo talking of non physical that is not percived by masses.

Edited September 26, 2011 by suninmyeyes

[Birch]

Oh please share SIME! I have just run into this very issue between Bazi and meditation/mindfulness/true self.

Can't seem to reconcile those perspectives for the moment.

[mantis]

Right, but I was referring to the situation in the USA where most practitioners of "Western taoism" currently reside, the only country in the world circumcising the majority of male infants for non-religious reasons. American males who are in their 40's today happen to have been born at the peak of the trend when 90% of American male babies were circumcised. You got lucky in England because even though the practice was first introduced there in the 19th century as a "cure for masturbation," it didn't take root and disappeared rather quickly. Here, it got cultivated by the medical establishment, under assorted (and frequently changing) "medical reasons." Here's one article I googled up:

 

http://www.circumstitions.com/USA.html

 

I guess I'm lucky, Hispanic parents ftw