Seth Ananda needing to be banned

[Sunya]

lol members who have been here for 2 weeks getting involved in internal politics, pretty funny.

[Aetherous]

Zerostao,

 

"That was Simple Jack's post to me on the first page. Calling me "guy" and stating one method as inferior to a Buddhist one."

 

being called "guy" is so bad? and one can call anyones method inferior, correct?

 

Yeah you can say whatever you want here, as long as it's not an insult (or blatantly disrespectful in some way). Saying "whatever, guy" is technically an insult since it's name calling and obviously rude, but I'm not reporting it because it's too weak and only happened a couple of times with him.

 

I was simply pointing out that his post (and others) is where this ridiculousness began. Contrary to what the Buddhists have claimed, I did not "start the fire"...they did. And I stood my ground this entire time. People can go back to the first few pages of that thread and see for themselves.

[zerostao]

lol members who have been here for 2 weeks getting involved in internal politics, pretty funny.

 

 

i'll step out of the conversation. i actually despise any form of politics. Mal did ask for feedback,

i said my piece.

one thing tho, i never speak viciously about anyone in PM's , if i have sth to say i say it out in the open.

[Sunya]

i'll step out of the conversation. i actually despise any form of politics. Mal did ask for feedback,

i said my piece.

one thing tho, i never speak viciously about anyone in PM's , if i have sth to say i say it out in the open.

 

Wasn't talking about you I welcome your thoughts zerostao

Edited September 7, 2011 by Sunya

[Sunya]

Actually Scotty what started it all was your baseless claim that Buddhism is an inferior path, which is a very bold thing to say. When asked to provide evidence, you held yourself as the authority -- "my experience proves it." Then when I pointed out (in a very nice tone and respectful manner) that you never had a Buddhist teacher and don't follow a Buddhist path so your belittling opinion of Buddhism should be taken with a grain of salt, you proceeded to disparage and belittle me, claiming to have "schooled" me in our private conversations and then acted afraid when I said I'll make the conversations public. Then you proceeded to tell me how I'm "speaking out of my ass," that "you know Buddhism to be inferior" and that "your realization is greater than mine" and I should "fucking deal with it."

 

Then, after Simple Jack responded to your baseless claim, you told him "WHO GIVES A SHIT? I'm not interested in Buddhist nonsense, and I'm even less interested in people who feel the need to spout it out and never achieve anything substantial" again asserting yourself as an authority and sole bearer of truth instead of having a logical, calm, respectful, and egalitarian discussion. Yes, Scott, you did start the fire. How you fail to see that is very odd.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Sunya

[Aetherous]

People can read the first few pages of the thread, and see how it went down for themselves.

 

Also, by the way, I've had two Buddhist teachers.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Scotty

[Simple_Jack]

Also, for clarity, here is what actually started the whole thing:

 

 

 

That was Simple Jack's post to me on the first page. Calling me "guy" and stating one method as inferior to a Buddhist one.

 

So I take it back, after rereading the thread...my responses to him were very well deserved. I was quite patient (even though whether I was or wasn't is irrelevant).

No problem, bro...I'm not butthurt (I use this word too lol) at what happened. Though apparently Taoists adopted this practice after it was introduced into China through Buddhism.

 

Maybe I'm a little too opinionated, but I still think that as a means in order to enter meditative absorption, it is the better method. Though it's up to the individual to find out for themselves, if this is true or not. Whatever works for each individual is best.

 

Though you still haven't been able to back up any reasons as to why it is the better method; while I have in 2 different posts backed my reasoning for stating what I claimed.

[Ambrose_Bierce]

lol members who have been here for 2 weeks getting involved in internal politics, pretty funny.

 

I dont see it as politics when the majority make up a lynch mob. Would you?

[Aetherous]

Simple Jack,

 

No problem, bro...I'm not butthurt (I use this word too lol) at what happened. Though apparently Taoists adopted this practice after it was introduced into China through Buddhism.

 

Maybe I'm a little too opinionated, but I still think that as a means in order to enter meditative absorption, it is the better method. Though it's up to the individual to find out for themselves, if this is true or not. Whatever works for each individual is best.

 

Fair enough!

 

Though you still haven't been able to back up any reasons as to why it is the better method; while I have in 2 different posts backed my reasoning for stating what I claimed.

 

Dantien breathing is a better meditation method because it includes anapanasati within it. You are paying attention to the breath and its quality...which is anapanasati...the only difference is that you're placing awareness within the lower dantien during it. What's interesting is that various Buddhist schools do this as well.

 

This cultivates what you call the gongfu of the body directly. In Taoist alchemy, they say that if a person simply puts their awareness there, with the right conditions they could achieve everything...even without any attention on breathing. Developing the qi of the body naturally develops the mind and breath, so that it's always in a meditative state...not just during practice. Also, since the question was specifically for developing concentration and focus, it makes the method even more worthwhile since that's precisely what you're doing with having awareness in the lower dantien.

 

So yup: because anapanasati is included in dantien breathing, and because dantien breathing has extra effects, it is a better method.

[Simple_Jack]

People can read the first few pages of the thread, and see how it went down for themselves.

 

Also, by the way, I've had two Buddhist teachers.

Either they have failed to properly teach you what exactly constitutes "Buddhist enlightenment," or you have failed to grasp or retain anything they have taught you.

 

I've read your posts in "Is Pineal gland activation more important than heart mind activation?" I'm sorry to say, but nothing you have posted in that thread constitutes anything approaching egolessness or non-duality as taught in Buddhism.

 

I'd be willing to debate with you if you want?

[Aetherous]

I'd be willing to debate with you if you want?

 

No way, man! My enlightened ass is trying to be done with that here.

[orb]

I'm supporting Seth Ananda !

 

And .... I agree with Scotty 100%!

 

Well, Mal is also right!

 

so hmmm ....

 

anybody want some tea ? Green tea is good for you!

 

or maybe noodle soup?

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Actually Scotty what started it all was your baseless claim that Buddhism is an inferior path, which is a very bold thing to say. When asked to provide evidence, you held yourself as the authority -- "my experience proves it." Then when I pointed out (in a very nice tone and respectful manner) that you never had a Buddhist teacher and don't follow a Buddhist path so your belittling opinion of Buddhism should be taken with a grain of salt, you proceeded to disparage and belittle me, claiming to have "schooled" me in our private conversations and then acted afraid when I said I'll make the conversations public. Then you proceeded to tell me how I'm "speaking out of my ass," that "you know Buddhism to be inferior" and that "your realization is greater than mine" and I should "fucking deal with it."

 

Then, after Simple Jack responded to your baseless claim, you told him "WHO GIVES A SHIT? I'm not interested in Buddhist nonsense, and I'm even less interested in people who feel the need to spout it out and never achieve anything substantial" again asserting yourself as an authority and sole bearer of truth instead of having a logical, calm, respectful, and egalitarian discussion. Yes, Scott, you did start the fire. How you fail to see that is very odd.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that Scotty is holding others to a different standard than himself here.

 

Rules are meant to maintain a level of harmony. If that harmony is toppled by one person then it's a legitimate free for all until the teacher comes in and tells them to shut up, imo. If they refuse to listen, then action needs to be taken. Otherwise, we don't need to treat everyone like a bunch of inmates that need to "toe the line" of arbitrary rules.

 

To say "oh oh the rule was broken! ban him! ban him now!" is absurd and uncivilized, imo, especially when it was provoked. And just because the provocation was better worded doesn't make it any less disrespectful not just to a person but an entire tradition and everyone in that tradition.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Simple_Jack]

Simple Jack,

 

 

 

Fair enough!

 

 

 

Dantien breathing is a better meditation method because it includes anapanasati within it. You are paying attention to the breath and its quality...which is anapanasati...the only difference is that you're placing awareness within the lower dantien during it. What's interesting is that various Buddhist schools do this as well.

 

This cultivates what you call the gongfu of the body directly. In Taoist alchemy, they say that if a person simply puts their awareness there, with the right conditions they could achieve everything...even without any attention on breathing. Developing the qi of the body naturally develops the mind and breath, so that it's always in a meditative state...not just during practice. Also, since the question was specifically for developing concentration and focus, it makes the method even more worthwhile since that's precisely what you're doing with having awareness in the lower dantien.

 

So yup: because anapanasati is included in dantien breathing, and because dantien breathing has extra effects, it is a better method.

Anapana only deals with the external breathing in the beginning.

 

Why exactly is focus on the dan-tien needed if jing, chi, shen are already cultivated with this method, which leads to the gradual opening of the chi channels and other esoteric structures of the body?

 

Also I remember Drew Hempel calling out a couple people on this thread a while ago who's methods included meditation on the dan-tien, which lead to the development of a "chi belly." His source of information that was used to substantiate the cliam that a "big belly" is the result of improper principles of practice, came from Tao & Longevity by Nan Huai Chin; which stated this would lead to said results. The heading of this was "A Big Belly Is Not Tao." I remember it stating that this was a result of chi bloating the lining of the intestines from concentration on the dan-tien. What is the purpose of a "chi-belly?"

[Aetherous]

Harmonious Emptiness,

 

Actually if you go back and read the first few pages of that thread, you will see how I was the one that was provoked.

 

People wish to view this in this own skewed way, but what it comes down to is: if a person clearly goes against the forum rules (which are there for a reason) they should be suspended. We all agree to this, and it's enforced for all other people...why not for Sunya and Seth Ananda????

[Aetherous]

Anapana only deals with the external breathing in the beginning.

 

Same with dantien breathing. Actually the idea of internal breathing or the embryonic state having to do with anapana came from the Taoist and their dantien breathing. Check out Yang Jwing Ming's Embryonic Breathing book.

 

Why exactly is focus on the dan-tien needed if jing, chi, shen are already cultivated with this method, which leads to the gradual opening of the chi channels and other esoteric structures of the body?

 

That is not at all the case with simple anapanasati, in my opinion.

 

Also I remember Drew Hempel calling out a couple people on this thread a while ago who's methods included meditation on the dan-tien, which lead to the development of a "chi belly." His source of information that was used to substantiate the cliam that a "big belly" is the result of improper principles of practice, came from Tao & Longevity by Nan Huai Chin; which stated this would lead to said results. The heading of this was "A Big Belly Is Not Tao." I remember it stating that this was a result of chi bloating the lining of the intestines from concentration on the dan-tien. What is the purpose of a "chi-belly?"

 

A big belly doesn't have any purpose...it would be a result of improper practice, not simple awareness within the dantien.

[Ambrose_Bierce]

I think Buddhism here is kind of iconic. No where else are so many tenets forgotten.

 

Guess I could be in Asia, it doesnt make the situation any better.

There they search for younger and younger followers generally taking infants.

 

In jest I refer to the Jedi.

 

But that is not the case here. I think it is funny that so much self-improvement and smoothing over of relations happens in Eastern Buddhism... Whereas western Buddhism others have to "just fucking deal with it".

 

Anyone who is a Western Buddhist care to answer?

[Simple_Jack]

I think it's pretty obvious that Scotty is holding others to a different standard than himself here.

 

Rules are meant to maintain a level of harmony. If that harmony is toppled by one person then it's a legitimate free for all until the teacher comes in and tells them to shut up, imo. If they refuse to listen, then action needs to be taken. Otherwise, we don't need to treat everyone like a bunch of inmates that need to "toe the line" of arbitrary rules.

 

To say "oh oh the rule was broken! ban him! ban him now!" is absurd and uncivilized, imo, especially when it was provoked. And just because the provocation was better worded doesn't make it any less disrespectful not just to a person but an entire tradition and everyone in that tradition.

To be honest: I really don't think anyone should be suspended or banned for what transpired on that thread. People are allowed to disagree, whatevs.

 

It's funny cause I really don't think there is much of a difference (at it's core) between Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism. It can be historically shown that they all intermingled and influenced each other, since Buddhism's introduction into China. There was a heavy intermingling during the Tang and Sung dyanties. Yet most of the so called "Taoists" on here are somehow ignorant of China's history when it comes to this.

 

The Chinese are more likely to study and apply the prinicples from each of these philosophies, which makes you think why it's not like that here in the West...

Edited September 7, 2011 by Simple_Jack

[Aetherous]

To be honest: I really don't think anyone should be suspended or banned for what transpired on that thread. People are allowed to disagree, whatevs.

 

See the first post on this thread, which shows an actual LIST of Seth Ananda's insults towards me.

 

It's one thing if someone slips up and says something in the heat of the moment...it's another when someone does what he did.

 

Once again...why is he still not suspended or banned???? Maybe I'll copy and paste that list onto each new page of this thread just to remind us of what someone deserving of suspension looks like!

[Aetherous]

1. Scotty, I am sorry but you are acting like a complete tool and have been for a while

 

2. You are basically a Loud Angry Fool...

 

3. I don't know what causes your underlying sense of inadequacy, probably not being able to grasp something you believe is easy. Relax, don't worry, rigorous mental standards are not for everyone. Not everyone has to be capable of solid Intellectual debate.

 

4. The Idea that 'You' could 'school' anyone on Buddhism is Incredibly Arrogant and just plain funny.

 

5. but really, it just makes you come out looking like a total tool.

 

6. Actually scotty you have been acting like an aggressive tool towards nearly all the Buddhist practitioners in here.

 

7. who you have also been acting like an ass towards

 

8. You are just to dumb to see it.

 

9. part of a community where Idiots like you are allowed to post blatant

 

10. constant vitriolic spew of Ignorance

 

11. you and a couple of others are basically Internet bullies

 

12. Dumb asses like you react to someone elses view because it challenges your own view

 

13. You are not a seeker of truth scotty you are an Idiot

 

14. I don't hate you scotty but I do think you are a Moron.

 

15. so again that is just one of your pathetic assumptions

 

16. cant tell reality from whatever springs into your over-active and underdeveloped mind

 

17. Lame assumptions...

 

18. wow once again with the clairvoyance and incredible mental insight! (sarcasm meaning the exact opposite...which is an insult)

 

19. but here you prove your self to be a liar.

 

20. It should be becoming quite clear to you by now, that you sir are an Idiot.

 

21. To all my other bum friends, I love you, but I cant sit by and watch Idiots trash my friends or my tradition.

 

22. Since the mods will not stop semi retarded Idiots like scotty from bullying and harassing the Buddhists here I feel it is probably my time to leave.

 

23. You are a snake in the grass, striking when you can, but shouting 'Poor Me' when someone hits you with a stick.

 

24. Does right action mean just lying down and taking it from an ass like you?

 

25. You dont have the capacity to know truth.

 

26. Scotty has basically been a hostile arrogant wanker through this thread

 

27. He doesn't like anyone who he is not smart enough to keep up with.

 

{there I insulted him again}

 

28. I myself want to be able to converse here with my TTB Buddhist friends, without noobs like scotty chiming in constantly with lame objections

 

29. You are deeply Inconsistent. I feel a core Instability within you! ooohhh! lol.

[Ambrose_Bierce]

See the first post on this thread, which shows an actual LIST of Seth Ananda's insults towards me.

 

It's one thing if someone slips up and says something in the heat of the moment...it's another when someone does what he did.

 

Once again...why is he still not suspended or banned???? Maybe I'll copy and paste that list onto each new page of this thread just to remind us of what someone deserving of suspension looks like!

 

Is it the political base? All the Western Buddhists would be angry?

Is that why? When is it TOO much?

 

It is understood now. Seth Ananda is untouchable.

[Simple_Jack]

Same with dantien breathing. Actually the idea of internal breathing or the embryonic state having to do with anapana came from the Taoist and their dantien breathing. Check out Yang Jwing Ming's Embryonic Breathing book.

 

 

 

That is not at all the case with simple anapanasati, in my opinion.

 

 

 

A big belly doesn't have any purpose...it would be a result of improper practice, not simple awareness within the dantien.

Anapana was practiced during Buddhas time before it had any contact with China. The state of "Xi" or the cessation of external breathing also occurs with Anapana practice.

 

"That is not at all the case with simple anapanasati, in my opinion."

 

Fine, no problem. That is your opinion and you're allowed to have it. I have found through practice of Anapana that these transformations of jing, chi and shen (bliss, clarity, no-thought) have occured.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Simple_Jack

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Harmonious Emptiness,

 

Actually if you go back and read the first few pages of that thread, you will see how I was the one that was provoked.

 

People wish to view this in this own skewed way, but what it comes down to is: if a person clearly goes against the forum rules (which are there for a reason) they should be suspended. We all agree to this, and it's enforced for all other people...why not for Sunya and Seth Ananda????

 

You do realize that you were insulting an entire tradition, one strongly connected to Taoism, the theme of this forum? That is worse than one person having it out with you after you've both raised the stakes of the argument.

 

Now you want extreme measures taken but only against the other person.

 

If you PMed someone with language like you did to Sunya, strong measures are deserved, as it shows that you had completely flipped your lid and really wanted to injure that person emotionally. That is what the rules are for. If someone needs to be put in their place, people should be allowed to do it. When it gets to far, it gets broken up and life goes on.

 

Hopefully you'll have enough respect for whatever teachers you had not to insult the Buddhist tradition in the future. It's not appreciated here any more than it is with any traditional lineage.

 

This is also a large part of the reason that Vmarco got suspended. He was repeatedly disrespectful to other traditions.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Simple_Jack]

See the first post on this thread, which shows an actual LIST of Seth Ananda's insults towards me.

 

It's one thing if someone slips up and says something in the heat of the moment...it's another when someone does what he did.

 

Once again...why is he still not suspended or banned???? Maybe I'll copy and paste that list onto each new page of this thread just to remind us of what someone deserving of suspension looks like!

True, he did go over board...but you yourself aren't completely innocent either.

[Simple_Jack]

"Is posting direct insults against another forum member here EVER justified????"

 

Well that's really the question, isn't it?

 

Feel free to discuss because the moderators are and I'd be intrested in the feedback.

 

Thanks

The way I see it....All of us "Buddhists" should either be banned from discussion of "Buddhist dogma" or discussing about Buddhism should be restricted to it's own sub-forum. I think that is the only way there can be harmony on this board.