Seth Ananda needing to be banned

[Aetherous]

You do realize that you were insulting an entire tradition, one strongly connected to Taoism, the theme of this forum? That is worse than one person having it out with you after you've both raised the stakes of the argument.

 

Well, in that topic it was made clear that I wasn't insulting Buddhism...it was the pseudo-Buddhism that I have a problem with at this forum. If people are interested in the truth of the matter, they can go back into that thread and read it rather than read the pro-Buddhist-brigade's slanted views here...

 

It's much worse to insult an individual than a tradition in my view. And saying Taoism is superior to Buddhism is not insulting Buddhism...it is not something which is suspension worthy AT ALL. It's an opinion and a super vague value judgment. If anyone actually takes offense to it, well....they NEED to practice more, because that's ridiculous.

 

Now you want extreme measures taken but only against the other person.

 

Yeah, the person who blatantly broke the forum rules. I have done absolutely nothing comparable!

 

If you PMed someone with language like you did to Sunya, strong measures are deserved, as it shows that you had completely flipped your lid and really wanted to injure that person emotionally.

 

What I said to Sunya wasn't in a PM (which is part of the forum). It was AOL instant messenger and has no bearing on anything here. In fact, him posting it against my wishes (which he has done twice now) is against the forum policies...

 

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

 

You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this bulletin board.

 

Maybe it could be considered copyrighted material, since it's a private discussion? I don't know the law that well...

 

He should be suspended for this as well as his insults earlier in this thread...why hasn't it happened yet??????

 

That is what the rules are for. If someone needs to be put in their place, people should be allowed to do it. When it gets to far, it gets broken up and life goes on.

 

If the moderators okay this new policy of yours, then I will adhere to it, and blatantly insult the fucking shit out of anyone who needs to be put in their place! It will be justified and they won't be able to suspend me for it! It'll be awesome.

 

But if it's not going to be a policy, then Seth and Sunya must be suspended for their clear breaking of the rules of this forum!!!

 

Hopefully you'll have enough respect for whatever teachers you had not to insult the Buddhist tradition in the future. It's not appreciated here any more than it is with any traditional lineage.

 

Once again, I was not exactly insulting the Buddhist tradition...here I will post my response from that thread:

 

You have directed a ton of negativity and hate towards Buddhist practitioners and towards Buddhism itself, Mr 'Despiser of Buddhist Beliefs'.

 

Actually, "despiser of Buddhist beliefs" is harmonious with Buddhism. It does not oppose it. There are many here who cling to the belief system of (their preferred brand of) Buddhism, instead of discovering the truth for themselves...or being honest when the beliefs (usually misinterpretations) are plainly proven wrong.

 

So despising Buddhist beliefs is a call to the Buddhist practitioners here to step up their game. I consider many of them to be absolute beginners. It's a demonstration against that which opposes Buddhism...ignorance and falsehood. Laziness.

 

Basically I want to see better Buddhists here, and more respect for the tradition.

 

Funny, huh?

 

Edit: Also, notice I quote Tilopa in my sig??????

[Harmonious Emptiness]

The way I see it....All of us "Buddhists" should either be banned from discussion of "Buddhist dogma" or discussing about Buddhism should be restricted to it's own sub-forum. I think that is the only way there can be harmony on this board.

 

I think it would be a good idea too. Buddhism is a very important aspect of modern and ancient Taoism so its philosophy should be able to be discussed freely without ticking off or inviting people who want to attack its presence here.. imo..

[Aetherous]

True, he did go over board...but you yourself aren't completely innocent either.

 

?

 

I have nothing to do with Seth and Sunya's need for suspension. I didn't break the forum rules.

 

Me not being completely innocent doesn't make their actions here any better or justified. The moderators don't have a right to overlook their actions simply because I'm "not completely innocent" (whatever that means). I have nothing to do with that gigantic list.

[Ambrose_Bierce]

Hopefully you'll have enough respect for whatever teachers you had not to insult the Buddhist tradition in the future. It's not appreciated here any more than it is with any traditional lineage.

 

Just to clarify, to be buddhist it is my understanding that you have to become one by going to a Buddhist temple. Just believeing in Buddhism does not make you Buddhist. This is not some mean elitism made up to trick you.

 

Plus there are tenets. I dont see anyone following the dharmas here. If I am misteaken about people following the dharmas, please point it out.

 

Additionally, my final observation is that you have to be a TEACHER to discuss anything Buddhist if you are Buddhist. Otherwise I believe there are consequences for breaking tenets.

 

This is also a large part of the reason that Vmarco got suspended. He was repeatedly disrespectful to other traditions.

 

You can't compare VMarco's personality to Scotty's.

[Simple_Jack]

I have a gigantic problem with how no moderation action has yet been taken against Seth Ananda. Here is a list of just some of the insults he has recently posted in this thread...

 

 

 

Others have been instantly suspended or banned for MUCH less. What's up with the moderation here? Is posting 29 direct insults against another forum member here EVER justified????

Your arguments weren't backed up. You also got butthurt (lol) when I showed that in Buddhism complete enlightenment also consists of a comepletely transformed body...You really did kind of bring this upon yourself.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Scotty, what I saw was you calling something "Buddhist nonsense" as if it was nonsense because it was Buddhist. And just because you disagree with someones chosen "brand" of Buddhism doesn't mean you're right and their wrong. Nor do I think what you said deserves for you to be banned or suspended at this point, as I've shown my view towards this overreacting. If you and Seth acted like this consistently, then yes there's a bigger issue, but one school yard scuffle doesn't deserve suspension. Zero tolerance is BS.

[Aetherous]

Scotty, what I saw was you calling something "Buddhist nonsense" as if it was nonsense because it was Buddhist.

 

No, that's not what I meant.

 

Buddhist nonsense meaning the nonsense that optionally goes along with what people consider Buddhism to be.

[Ambrose_Bierce]

Scotty, what I saw was you calling something "Buddhist nonsense" as if it was nonsense because it was Buddhist. And just because you disagree with someones chosen "brand" of Buddhism doesn't mean you're right and their wrong. Nor do I think what you said deserves for you to be banned or suspended at this point, as I've shown my view towards this overreacting. If you and Seth acted like this consistently, then yes there's a bigger issue, but one school yard scuffle doesn't deserve suspension. Zero tolerance is BS.

 

How many Buddhists here became Buddhists at a real temple?

I mean misrepresentation I hear is a big deal.

[Aetherous]

Your arguments weren't backed up. You also got butthurt (lol) when I showed that in Buddhism complete enlightenment also consists of a comepletely transformed body...You really did kind of bring this upon yourself.

 

I don't have patience for this, at this point, Simple Jack. I backed up my arguments with you already. Be aware that you're representing the Buddhist population here each time you post...strive for greatness. Not dishonesty.

 

I can also agree that enlightenment coincides with a transformed body.

[Simple_Jack]

Well, in that topic it was made clear that I wasn't insulting Buddhism...it was the pseudo-Buddhism that I have a problem with at this forum. If people are interested in the truth of the matter, they can go back into that thread and read it rather than read the pro-Buddhist-brigade's slanted views here...

 

It's much worse to insult an individual than a tradition in my view. And saying Taoism is superior to Buddhism is not insulting Buddhism...it is not something which is suspension worthy AT ALL. It's an opinion and a super vague value judgment. If anyone actually takes offense to it, well....they NEED to practice more, because that's ridiculous.

 

 

 

Yeah, the person who blatantly broke the forum rules. I have done absolutely nothing comparable!

 

 

 

What I said to Sunya wasn't in a PM (which is part of the forum). It was AOL instant messenger and has no bearing on anything here. In fact, him posting it against my wishes (which he has done twice now) is against the forum policies...

 

 

 

Maybe it could be considered copyrighted material, since it's a private discussion? I don't know the law that well...

 

He should be suspended for this as well as his insults earlier in this thread...why hasn't it happened yet??????

 

 

 

If the moderators okay this new policy of yours, then I will adhere to it, and blatantly insult the fucking shit out of anyone who needs to be put in their place! It will be justified and they won't be able to suspend me for it! It'll be awesome.

 

But if it's not going to be a policy, then Seth and Sunya must be suspended for their clear breaking of the rules of this forum!!!

 

 

 

Once again, I was not exactly insulting the Buddhist tradition...here I will post my response from that thread:

 

[

 

Actually, "despiser of Buddhist beliefs" is harmonious with Buddhism. It does not oppose it. There are many here who cling to the belief system of (their preferred brand of) Buddhism, instead of discovering the truth for themselves...or being honest when the beliefs (usually misinterpretations) are plainly proven wrong.

 

So despising Buddhist beliefs is a call to the Buddhist practitioners here to step up their game. I consider many of them to be absolute beginners. It's a demonstration against that which opposes Buddhism...ignorance and falsehood. Laziness.

 

Basically I want to see better Buddhists here, and more respect for the tradition.

 

Funny, huh?

 

Edit: Also, notice I quote Tilopa in my sig??????

You never actually stated what is "misinterpretation" on our part.

 

I myself not too long ago absolutely hated Buddhism, just like the people on this board. It was only through direct experience of D.O and inherent emptiness of the five aggregates and phenomena, that I started to really accept that "Buddhist enlightnement" wasn't bullshit and that it was possible to acheive.

 

You actually dodged in that thread and in this thread on why or how "Buddhist beliefs" are in your words "plainly proven wrong." I seriously will not mind debating you about these claims.

 

EDIT: Spelling

Edited September 7, 2011 by Simple_Jack

[Aetherous]

If you and Seth acted like this consistently, then yes there's a bigger issue, but one school yard scuffle doesn't deserve suspension.

 

There are clear rules here. People have been instantly suspended for much less. Want me to copy and paste Seth's huge list of insults again? I'm willing.

[Ambrose_Bierce]

How many of you Buddhists became one at a temple?

 

How many of you Buddhists became one at a temple?

 

(Evoked the 3 question tenet of Buddhism). If you are Buddhist, you are supposed to reply.

If not, then I guess that proves my point.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

?

 

I have nothing to do with Seth and Sunya's need for suspension. I didn't break the forum rules.

 

Me not being completely innocent doesn't make their actions here any better or justified. The moderators don't have a right to overlook their actions simply because I'm "not completely innocent" (whatever that means). I have nothing to do with that gigantic list.

 

Provocation is something, and someone could indirectly provoke you a lot worse than Seth provoked you directly.

[Simple_Jack]

I don't have patience for this, at this point, Simple Jack. I backed up my arguments with you already. Be aware that you're representing the Buddhist population here each time you post...strive for greatness. Not dishonesty.

 

I can also agree that enlightenment coincides with a transformed body.

Right and I'm asking you to start telling me why you can't admit to being wrong about what constitutes "Buddhist enlightenment" and it's principles in general.

[Aetherous]

Simple Jack,

 

I seriously will not mind debating you about these claims.

 

Well, I already said no. This whole thing has already taken up way too much of my time. I have become verrrrry aware of how dishonest some Buddhists can be...and it's not worth getting sucked into it again. I see how it will turn out already with my super mystical third eye.

 

Also, please realize how much time and effort it's taking me to respond to all of you. This is not enjoyable for me. It's my wish that this topic was solely about Seth and Sunya's suspension...not about me and how much I suck or what I did wrong, not about Buddhism and how awesome it is, etc.

 

So anyway, we're cool...lets keep it that way, and avoid the debate respectfully.

[Ambrose_Bierce]

Well I am not sure why I noticed this topic or was drawn to it.

Personally I am not anti-buddhism.

 

I am just curious as to why people are "acting out" on the forums this way.

 

Is no one just happy being happy? People have to make others miserable to feel happy?

 

I think thats the problem here and it is consistent.

[Sunya]

How many of you Buddhists became one at a temple?

 

How many of you Buddhists became one at a temple?

 

(Evoked the 3 question tenet of Buddhism). If you are Buddhist, you are supposed to reply.

If not, then I guess that proves my point.

 

Dude, who are you? lol. Chill out. Someone is a Buddhist when they have taken refuge in the three jewels of Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. You don't have to do this at a temple, a formal ceremony with a teacher will suffice or simply a vow taken earnestly.

 

None of this is relevant to this discussion though. You can start a new thread in General Discussion if this is something you want to learn about.

[Simple_Jack]

Simple Jack,

 

 

 

Well, I already said no. This whole thing has already taken up way too much of my time. I have become verrrrry aware of how dishonest some Buddhists can be...and it's not worth getting sucked into it again. I see how it will turn out already with my super mystical third eye.

 

Also, please realize how much time and effort it's taking me to respond to all of you. This is not enjoyable for me. It's my wish that this topic was solely about Seth and Sunya's suspension...not about me and how much I suck or what I did wrong, not about Buddhism and how awesome it is, etc.

 

So anyway, we're cool...lets keep it that way, and avoid the debate respectfully.

This isn't about "how much you suck" or how "awesome Buddhism is." Why do you want to avoid this? Surely you remember that you claimed on that thread that you were "enlightened" and understood what constitutes "Buddhist enlightenment."

 

I'm saying that you don't and therefore want to debate to see how far your understanding really goes.

[Simple_Jack]

Well I am not sure why I noticed this topic or was drawn to it.

Personally I am not anti-buddhism.

 

I am just curious as to why people are "acting out" on the forums this way.

 

Is no one just happy being happy? People have to make others miserable to feel happy?

 

I think thats the problem here and it is consistent.

I find this all pretty funny actually. I'm trying to clear up some inconsistencies with Scotty.

[Ambrose_Bierce]

This isn't about "how much you suck" or how "awesome Buddhism is." Why do you want to avoid this? Surely you remember that you claimed on that thread that you were "enlightened" and understood what constitutes "Buddhist enlightenment."

 

I'm saying that you don't and therefore want to debate to see how far your understanding really goes.

 

As of yet, no one answered by questions. Are there no Buddhists at all?

[Sunya]

Well, in that topic it was made clear that I wasn't insulting Buddhism...

 

Calling Buddhism an inferior path isn't insulting Buddhism?

 

Taoist alchemy is something entirely different from Buddhism, and is far superior to it.

 

 

On the other hand, I DO claim to understand Buddhism. I know Taoism is superior. I know that Buddhist enlightenment is the first step in some schools of Taoist alchemy. I know that my realization is greater than yours (in fact, you should too since we discussed that).

 

So...fucking deal with it.

 

 

I discussed it in an honest manner, by stating the truth: that actual Buddhist enlightenment is a first step in some Taoist alchemy schools. If the whole point of Buddhism is contained within Taoism, and Taoism is serving more than just that purpose, then it is greater Buddhism. It is Buddhism + a lot more...but without the excess garbage, such as attachment to false beliefs and misinterpretations.

[Aetherous]

This isn't about "how much you suck" or how "awesome Buddhism is." Why do you want to avoid this? Surely you remember that you claimed on that thread that you were "enlightened" and understood what constitutes "Buddhist enlightenment."

 

I'm saying that you don't and therefore want to debate to see how far your understanding really goes.

 

I want to avoid this because it's a total waste of my time, as I've already said. Do you know how many hours I spent on this kind of stuff with Sunya....TONS. And look how it turned out. You are acting a lot like him. I'm done dealing with this kind of thing. Please respect that, and stop asking me to debate with you. I'm fine with anyone not believing my claims...and I will continue to claim them, because they're true.

[Stigweard]

 

Time out lads and lasses

 

Firstly I would like to ask the mods an opportunity to apply the idea presented here: Self-moderation as a community effort on The TaoBums.

 

Let's see if we can be mature practitioners of our respective traditions and sort this out in a productive manner

 

First point of agenda is that Seth certainly did clearly violate the "no insult" policy. He knew this and therefore must accept, in all fairness, the same consistent treatment that precedent has set. Therefore I vote that he cops a 7-day suspension.

 

The second point of agenda is that Scotty has been deliberately confrontational and argumentative which certainly shares part responsibility for said reaction. Though this is not necessarily violating any forum rules per se, it is certainly causing disturbances that possible could be avoided.

 

For Scotty I would recommend that you have a good read of Guidelines for Taoist-Buddhist Dialog, and do you best to adhere to them ... please.

 

 

But we also must reflect together on the deeper implications of this occurrence. For there are a few.

 

Firstly there is the Buddhist presence on TaoBums. Personally I LOVE you guys being here, and I love that you want to be here. There has been so much cross-pollination between Daoism and Buddhism through the eaons that it would be wrong if you weren't here.

 

Personally I think it would be great if you had your own forum called Buddhist Discussion. I believe that would settle a few issues right there and then.

 

Another issue here, and yes moderators this is me getting on my soap box again, is that this is yet another flare up caused by the way in which the moderation structure has been established (note that this is not a go at moderators, but at the system of authority). By the time mods get involved, as seen here, it is already a shit fight. That means you folks are always having to deal with extreme situations and quite frankly I think that is unfair on yourselves to have to continually deal with that in a volunteer position.

 

So I am throwing this up once again for formal consideration:

 

First create a new moderation forum, or open the Concierge Dungeon to all members.

 

New moderation considerations get added to the Mod Forum in two ways:

 

1. Formal reports are made via the report buttons wherein the Moderators post it into the Mod Forum

 

2. Any member can post their own complaint in the Mod Forum about another member or situation at any time

 

Following this, any member, whether moderator or not, can pitch in to discuss the situation to determine if it is an actionable offense or not and what action, if any, should be taken. Moderators act as facilitators to the discussion only, they are there to help those members who have expressed interest or concern in the matter come to some sort of consensus over what to do.

 

Once a majority or consensus decision has been reached by involved parties then, and only then, do the moderators carry out the formal action that the members decided upon.

 

 

I would be more than happy to help facilitate this (but absolutely no I don't want to be a moderator). Please give this close consideration, what would it hurt to trial this out for 3-months of so??

 

[Aetherous]

Calling Buddhism an inferior path isn't insulting Buddhism?

 

Do you ever quit?

[Simple_Jack]

I want to avoid this because it's a total waste of my time, as I've already said. Do you know how many hours I spent on this kind of stuff with Sunya....TONS. And look how it turned out. You are acting a lot like him. I'm done dealing with this kind of thing. Please respect that, and stop asking me to debate with you. I'm fine with anyone not believing my claims...and I will continue to claim them, because they're true.

Well if they're "true" like you say, then I don't see why you'd have a problem debating me.