xabir2005 Posted September 7, 2011 I say again. You need to develop siddhis to achieve complete enlightenment. There is not one human in the world who has achieved complete enlightenment without developing siddhis. How do you think you are gonna interact with the Oneness/Emptiness without using your Divine Sight and Ear? Stop talking rubbish. It is rubbish to think that you can somehow realize emptiness with mundane worldly faculties like divine eye, ear, etc. And you don't know what emptiness is, otherwise you would not phrase it that way - emptiness is the nature of all phenomena and can only be realized. It is not a thing that can be interacted with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted September 7, 2011 Alright Cowtao, let me explain a bit more. To achieve complete enlightenment, one needs to interact with the higher dimensional forces in this reality and outside this reality. There is no way you can interact with these higher dimensional forces without developing Siddhis least of all your Divine Sight and Sound. It will be like asking you to drive a car blindfolded and deaf. I do understand where you are coming from, Tulku, but your view is quite off from the buddhist perspective. I am not saying you are wrong ~ i am sure some folks will see the logic of your argument, but in the Higher path, such views are fully negated because they will still give rise to dualistic tendencies. Having sight and hearing does not automatically qualify one as a proficient driver, and there are many who have both, drove for many years, yet have no clue as to the actual workings of the car. Yes, we cannot drive a car blindfolded or with our hearing impaired. But enlightenment is not the same as driving. Its more like knowing what a car is, its potential, and what its capable of doing. For this, no great power is needed. Simple awareness is more than sufficient. But unfortunately most people are by nature dissatisfied, and from this the 3 poisons take root, and thus is born the twelve links, and also the wheel of suffering is set in motion following this, which causes the cyclical perpetuations of samsaric death and rebirth to be seen as fundamentally real, and this is the main obstacle to remaining undistracted in one's primordial essence of Buddha Mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xabir2005 Posted September 7, 2011 Alright Cowtao, let me explain a bit more. To achieve complete enlightenment, one needs to interact with the higher dimensional forces in this reality and outside this reality. There is no way you can interact with these higher dimensional forces without developing Siddhis least of all your Divine Sight and Sound. It will be like asking you to drive mMa car blindfolded and deaf. Interacting with any worldly dimensions with mundane worldly faculties is never going to help you realize emptiness. More often than not they entrap one in seeking more illusory phenomena. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tulku Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) It is rubbish to think that you can somehow realize emptiness with mundane worldly faculties like divine eye, ear, etc. And you don't know what emptiness is, otherwise you would not phrase it that way - emptiness is the nature of all phenomena and can only be realized. It is not a thing that can be interacted with. to think that you would consider divine sight to be a mundane worldly faculty lol It is not a thing that can be interacted with. You have already shown us the extent of your cultivation. Enough said. Edited September 7, 2011 by tulku Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tulku Posted September 7, 2011 I do understand where you are coming from, Tulku, but your view is quite off from the buddhist perspective. I am not saying you are wrong ~ i am sure some folks will see the logic of your argument, but in the Higher path, such views are fully negated because they will still give rise to dualistic tendencies. Having sight and hearing does not automatically qualify one as a proficient driver, and there are many who have both, drove for many years, yet have no clue as to the actual workings of the car. Yes, we cannot drive a car blindfolded or with our hearing impaired. But enlightenment is not the same as driving. Its more like knowing what a car is, its potential, and what its capable of doing. For this, no great power is needed. Simple awareness is more than sufficient. But unfortunately most people are by nature dissatisfied, and from this the 3 poisons take root, and thus is born the twelve links, and also the wheel of suffering is set in motion following this, which causes the cyclical perpetuations of samsaric death and rebirth to be seen as fundamentally real, and this is the main obstacle to remaining undistracted in one's primordial essence of Buddha Mind. i do not make a distinction between buddhist, taoist, hindu, kaballah or ufo perspective i correct myself.. enlightenment is like piloting a spaceship like star trek enterprise.. you need divine eyes and divine ears to pilot a spaceship.. otherwise, you can't even walk through the door to the cockpit!.. lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tulku Posted September 7, 2011 Interacting with any worldly dimensions with mundane worldly faculties is never going to help you realize emptiness. More often than not they entrap one in seeking more illusory phenomena. i am not talking about worldly dimensions i am talking about otherworldly dimensions have you traveled to the buddhic realms before and interacted with the buddhas and learnt from them? i think not but i know some high-level practitioners who have done so .. interacting with such otherworldly dimensions is never gonna help you realize emptiness? let me tell now.. realizing emptiness is just the first step.. goood luck on your journey! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xabir2005 Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) to think that you would consider divine sight to be a mundane worldly faculty lol It is not a thing that can be interacted with. You have already shown us the extent of your cultivation. Enough said. In buddhist schematics divine eye is the mundane worldly siddhi that lets you see more worlds, and so on, and divine eye lets you hear a higher range of frequency. You definitely aren't going to realize emptiness by hearing more sounds and seeing more fantastic visions, on the other hand it is likely to cause more attachments and delusions. All these are just worldly, mundane phenomena. Only wisdom eye that realizes emptiness is supramundane and is totally distinct from say, divine eye or ears, which are common to unliberated devas. If emptiness were something to interact, there would be a separate self to interact and a separate and independently existing thing to interact with. If that were the case, obviously it is not empty, it is not even oneness since you think there is separation. By the way emptiness and oneness are not the same thing. As described in http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html Edited September 7, 2011 by xabir2005 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kali Yuga Posted September 7, 2011 "Self-deluded clowns"<============SO MUCH LOL! Oh, the ironies that people exude sometimes. if only he knew.... if only he knew. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) Young man in field, jumping up and down Look at me, Look at Me You clowns Look at me I'll tell you what Buddha meant (don't contradict me w/ facts) Look at me, Look at Me My way is the only way Look at me, Look at Me You should have no desires (I surely don't) Look at me, Look at Me That is probably overly negative. Tulku you make some valid points and definitely inspire conversation. Unfortunately you start off so provocatively it's less a discussion and more a rant. Which is too bad, it cheapens your argument. The path of the monk is a virtuous and high one. You get crap because you display a fundamentalist's outlook, so we look at you as we would an obsessed missionary. Dial it down. You should open up and lead discussions on topics like sealing the senses. It's an important subject that crosses both Buddhist and Toaist lines. But if you start the conversation talking down to people, you're worthless. Keep an open mind and learn from people here. Some are advanced. I'd also recommend dropping the absolutes from every post, maybe just adding a IMO every now and then. Conversation moves much more respectfully when people are self honest, separating what they know from what they think. You set so such a high bar for enlightenment that obviously you're not there (even at our lower bar most of us aren't either), so lecture less discuss more. my 2 bits Edited September 7, 2011 by thelerner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky7Strikes Posted September 7, 2011 means he attained insight without powers, proving that powers are not necessary for insight or liberation. The transgression is for his coming to steal buddha's dharma to claim as his own sect's for fame and worship. You should sleep more lol Haha, yea. Now that I read it over I see the context better. You're right, the path or an arhant does not include psychic powers. It is the insight into anatta, annica, and dukkha. But the Buddha in Mahayana and Vajrayana is not a mere arhant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
witch Posted September 7, 2011 Hmmm...tulku, honey, be careful out there. Just because someone might have siddhi powers doesn't make them a nice person. I think siddhi powers might have more to do with what's in a person's twelfth house than anything else, and also that they might be particular to the person, like in Kung Fu Hustle, but certainly don't know anything about it on the Buddhist side of things to comment intelligently. What I do know is that people are people, and some people are nice and some aren't. Also, mammals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mewtwo Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) my big question what does it matter? enlightenment or no enlightenment you should practice for all sentient beings regardless. cultivate compassion and seek tao. But anyways i have developed the siddhi of telepathy here is a video of me doing it. was going to post a funny video but um cant find it youtube must have taken it down. if i find it i will post it. Edit was going to post a video fo mewtwo from pokemon doing telepathy but yeah um cause in all honesty why depbate this stuff one person believes one way the other another and you cant change that all paths lead to the source and such. Thanks Edited September 7, 2011 by mewtwo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dainin Posted September 7, 2011 Is tulku the same person as bodyoflight? I thought he was going off to the Himalayas to cultivate his state of perfection. How fortunate we are that he has chosen to remain here instead, and save all sentient beings from having fun! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tulku Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) Hmmm...tulku, honey, be careful out there. Just because someone might have siddhi powers doesn't make them a nice person. I think siddhi powers might have more to do with what's in a person's twelfth house than anything else, and also that they might be particular to the person, like in Kung Fu Hustle, but certainly don't know anything about it on the Buddhist side of things to comment intelligently. What I do know is that people are people, and some people are nice and some aren't. Also, mammals. what are you afraid of, witch? death? i am already tangling with the highest powers, witch .. do you think that mere humans have the siddhis to do anything to me? trust me, a lot of masters have already tried and they fail as they say, let a sleeping dragon lie and too bad most masters are too ignorant to do so.. i like to see how your pathetic heart-love powers stand against the almighty powers of the Creator and the Archangels themselves. at this point in my life, I am seeking either Enlightenment or Death you and your colleagues are very welcome to seek my death .. if you have the power and authority to seek the death of one of the Creators' hand that is.. lol Edited September 7, 2011 by tulku Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tulku Posted September 7, 2011 In buddhist schematics divine eye is the mundane worldly siddhi that lets you see more worlds, and so on, and divine eye lets you hear a higher range of frequency. You definitely aren't going to realize emptiness by hearing more sounds and seeing more fantastic visions, on the other hand it is likely to cause more attachments and delusions. All these are just worldly, mundane phenomena. Only wisdom eye that realizes emptiness is supramundane and is totally distinct from say, divine eye or ears, which are common to unliberated devas. If emptiness were something to interact, there would be a separate self to interact and a separate and independently existing thing to interact with. If that were the case, obviously it is not empty, it is not even oneness since you think there is separation. By the way emptiness and oneness are not the same thing. As described in http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html there is no difference between the wisdom eye and divine eye.. both are various degrees of spiritual sight which must be cultivated in order to seek enlightenment as you said emptiness and oneness are not the same thing.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tulku Posted September 7, 2011 Young man in field, jumping up and down Look at me, Look at Me You clowns Look at me I'll tell you what Buddha meant (don't contradict me w/ facts) Look at me, Look at Me My way is the only way Look at me, Look at Me You should have no desires (I surely don't) Look at me, Look at Me That is probably overly negative. Tulku you make some valid points and definitely inspire conversation. Unfortunately you start off so provocatively it's less a discussion and more a rant. Which is too bad, it cheapens your argument. The path of the monk is a virtuous and high one. You get crap because you display a fundamentalist's outlook, so we look at you as we would an obsessed missionary. Dial it down. You should open up and lead discussions on topics like sealing the senses. It's an important subject that crosses both Buddhist and Toaist lines. But if you start the conversation talking down to people, you're worthless. Keep an open mind and learn from people here. Some are advanced. I'd also recommend dropping the absolutes from every post, maybe just adding a IMO every now and then. Conversation moves much more respectfully when people are self honest, separating what they know from what they think. You set so such a high bar for enlightenment that obviously you're not there (even at our lower bar most of us aren't either), so lecture less discuss more. my 2 bits I am sick of people who think they know it all.. i may post a lot of stuff here but i don't dare to say i know it all.. the purpose of me posting here is to let peeps know the correct way and ignore the limits of the various dogmatic traditions out there.. although i definitely do not know it all nor do i say i am enlightened, i definitely know enough to correct too many "enlightened" posters in here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) what are you afraid of, witch? death? i am already tangling with the highest powers, witch .. do you think that mere humans have the siddhis to do anything to me? trust me, a lot of masters have already tried and they fail as they say, let a sleeping dragon lie and too bad most masters are too ignorant to do so.. i like to see how your pathetic heart-love powers stand against the almighty powers of the Creator and the Archangels themselves. at this point in my life, I am seeking either Enlightenment or Death you and your colleagues are very welcome to seek my death .. if you have the power and authority to seek the death of one of the Creators' hand that is.. lol No, we will just take whatever power you think you have and leave you blank to begin all over. Come at me bro! (obviously sarcasm, (I hope)) Edited September 7, 2011 by Informer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted September 7, 2011 Mwaahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa. Tulku-man. You have become a Tulku, yes:-) But IME, IMO, Tulkus are a bit like the marshmallow dude in Ghostbusters. Mostly one or two dimensional, requires feeding. You've done pretty well off the bums so far. I respect your desire to remain in your current fullness of yourself. Don't let any of those folks neither heartfelt nor concerned about you in any way deflate you. If you're tanglng with Gabs n all (my pet name for Gabriel) could you put in a good word? Thank you! Amen 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tulku Posted September 7, 2011 No, we will just take whatever power you think you have and leave you blank to begin all over. Come at me bro! (obviously sarcasm, (I hope)) leave me blank? do you really think you have the authority and power to take the power of my soul away? why don't you just try touching me and see what the Creator, Archangels and Buddhas do to you? do you really think your sponsors, as powerful as they are, stand above the Creator, the Archangels and the Buddhas? as I said before, you all are very welcomed to seek my death or even leave me blank.. i just can't wait to see how the local Universe will be destroyed if someone touches the Creator's Hand without his express permission Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted September 8, 2011 Nah, seriously dude. Methinks you've overdone something (possibly meditative stuff or other). Are you alright? And I don't mean that in a "hey, come back here and conform to consensus" kind of deal. If you're alright, it's alright. You CAN be an a$$hole if you want too! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) leave me blank? do you really think you have the authority and power to take the power of my soul away? why don't you just try touching me and see what the Creator, Archangels and Buddhas do to you? do you really think your sponsors, as powerful as they are, stand above the Creator, the Archangels and the Buddhas? as I said before, you all are very welcomed to seek my death or even leave me blank.. i just can't wait to see how the local Universe will be destroyed if someone touches the Creator's Hand without his express permission It is "God's" real hand that will leave you blank. You are incomplete, and refuse to strive for completeness, because of selfish greed and desire. (Can be taken metaphorically or not) Edited September 8, 2011 by Informer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tulku Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) It is "God's" real hand that will leave you blank. You are incomplete, and refuse to strive for completeness, because of selfish greed and desire. (Can be taken metaphorically or not) if it is God's real hand that will leave me blank, please ask him or her to do it immediately as in right now right this very second the only greed and desire i have is to evolve my own soul to the point of enlightenment, so if that is selfish, greedy and desirous, then so be it i do agree i am incomplete however i am incomplete because i have not reached enlightenment yet i am not incomplete because i am not interested in love love will never make a human complete love alone will never make me complete only enlightenment of the soul and the Emergence of the Divine Ego via the destruction of the human ego will make a human .. complete Edited September 8, 2011 by tulku Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted September 8, 2011 I happen not to believe in god, although I think i do think we are all bits of god. I think it must be tough going for anyone to experience a change in their belief or their perception. I can't work out whether cultivation practice is just a way to keep up with things or if it precipates understanding of what's going on anyway? Y'know, I'm tending towards the latter. I kind of prefer the idea I'm doing something, rather than blearily-eyed riding along. So yeah, freaking hard on many people, this stuff. I'd cut the Tulku some slack:-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted September 8, 2011 if it is God's real hand that will leave me blank, please ask him or her to do it immediately as in right now right this very second the only greed and desire i have is to evolve my own soul to the point of enlightenment, so if that is selfish, greedy and desirous, then so be it i do agree i am incomplete however i am incomplete because i have not reached enlightenment yet i am not incomplete because i am not interested in love love will never make a human complete love alone will never make me complete only enlightenment of the soul and the Emergence of the Divine Ego via the destruction of the human ego will make a human .. complete How do you know if love isn't part of it if you do not know what it is? Silly! You know you are missing love and you know you are incomplete, hmmmmmmmmmm . . . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
