Love and Desires are Antithetical to Enlightenment

[tulku]

.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Mal
copyrighted material removed

[tulku]

I understand that during past 15 months, certain higher beings have given most of the human race upgrades through the human heart so most people mistakenly think that Love is the most important factor to Enlightenment.

 

Well I can tell you right now. These higher dimensional beings go only as high as the highest dimension of the Desire Realms but they are hardly nowhere as high as the Buddhas not to mention the Creator himself.

 

Love and Sexual Desires are Antithetical to Enlightenment. Yes your bloody heart upgrades may give you some powers now but these powers are nothing compared to the full range of powers by cultivating a STATE OF EMPTINESS!

 

Which means you have to eliminate Love and Sexual Desires from your Consciousness!

[alect]

Relax and have fun. There's a point where I'd agree with you.

 

You'd to live alone in the mountains to do that.

To reach "true emptiness." To become enlightened, a pure being lacking in desire.

 

Many humans are born without the capacity to reach a that place. Most of us just struggle to be comfortable in our skins in the first place. Many people who strive for such power go through immense amounts self-imposed suck to gain an inch of ground.

Simply put; transcendence of suffering and desire by charging straight into them.

 

If it were true that Godly feats were possible to the majority of us through dedication and personal practice, the whole world would be full of messiahs.

 

I doubt that we as a species hold enough karmic power or weight to even be able to sustain that kind of amount of universal truth. We are not Gods. In fact, some Taoists in the ancient days were sad to admit their insights that we may be even lower in the "natural/empty/truth scale" than the animals of the earth. In my opinion, based on frequent observance and rumination: humans are communal creatures. We like being active. We are, by nature industrious. We have minds that are separate from the ordinary, based on what we can see. We talk, walk, make things.

 

So tell me, are you Enlightened?

 

Really, all you do need is love. You've got to love yourself. It's not even about the power. It's about just trying to be content. Not transcending or descending anything. I think, for the layman, the more you give up on placing an affectation to you who truly are, or defying your "Essential nature" the insights you strive for will suddenly appear in beautiful, simple form. Striving for enlightenment, in a lot ways, can be a way of trying to shape the world to the way you want to see it. But you are one bit of nothing. You will only be empty when you can accept that you are full;

full of shit.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I understand that during past 15 months, certain higher beings have given most of the human race upgrades through the human heart so most people mistakenly think that Love is the most important factor to Enlightenment.

 

Well I can tell you right now. These higher dimensional beings go only as high as the highest dimension of the Desire Realms but they are hardly nowhere as high as the Buddhas not to mention the Creator himself.

 

Love and Sexual Desires are Antithetical to Enlightenment. Yes your bloody heart upgrades may give you some powers now but these powers are nothing compared to the full range of powers by cultivating a STATE OF EMPTINESS!

 

Which means you have to eliminate Love and Sexual Desires from your Consciousness!

In Buddhist language compassion is love. If you look through tantric and mahayana scriptures they all come down to the union of emptiness and compassion.

 

Love is compassion. Compassion is bliss. It is bodhicitta and buddha nature. So if you want to preach emptiness and sit somewhere like a piece of log, go ahead. If that's your idea of enlightenment, I don't think I want any part of it and I feel many others will feel the same.

 

Tulku, you need to attribute your quotes. None of them are from the Buddha but from other practitioners with varying view points.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[tulku]

In Buddhist language compassion is love. If you look through tantric and mahayana scriptures they all come down to the union of emptiness and compassion.

 

Love is compassion. Compassion is bliss. It is bodhicitta and buddha nature. So if you want to preach emptiness and sit somewhere like a piece of log, go ahead. If that's your idea of enlightenment, I don't think I want any part of it and I feel many others will feel the same.

 

Tulku, you need to attribute your quotes. None of them are from the Buddha but from other practitioners with varying view points.

 

Upon reaching the emptiness of the tao which is also equivalent to buddhist enlightenment, one will realize that even compassion is in itself a concept, a feeling and any concepts any feelings will hinder one in realizing true emptiness.

[tulku]

Relax and have fun. There's a point where I'd agree with you.

 

You'd to live alone in the mountains to do that.

To reach "true emptiness." To become enlightened, a pure being lacking in desire.

 

Many humans are born without the capacity to reach a that place. Most of us just struggle to be comfortable in our skins in the first place. Many people who strive for such power go through immense amounts self-imposed suck to gain an inch of ground.

Simply put; transcendence of suffering and desire by charging straight into them.

 

If it were true that Godly feats were possible to the majority of us through dedication and personal practice, the whole world would be full of messiahs.

 

I doubt that we as a species hold enough karmic power or weight to even be able to sustain that kind of amount of universal truth. We are not Gods. In fact, some Taoists in the ancient days were sad to admit their insights that we may be even lower in the "natural/empty/truth scale" than the animals of the earth. In my opinion, based on frequent observance and rumination: humans are communal creatures. We like being active. We are, by nature industrious. We have minds that are separate from the ordinary, based on what we can see. We talk, walk, make things.

 

So tell me, are you Enlightened?

 

Really, all you do need is love. You've got to love yourself. It's not even about the power. It's about just trying to be content. Not transcending or descending anything. I think, for the layman, the more you give up on placing an affectation to you who truly are, or defying your "Essential nature" the insights you strive for will suddenly appear in beautiful, simple form. Striving for enlightenment, in a lot ways, can be a way of trying to shape the world to the way you want to see it. But you are one bit of nothing. You will only be empty when you can accept that you are full;

full of shit.

 

All Men are supposed to be Enlightened Gods.

 

This is the Will of the Creator.

 

Humans have the greatest potential to be Gods. They have even higher potentials than a lot of the higher dimensional beings out there.

 

This is why Lucifer, Mara and company seek to thwart the spiritual evolution of humans into higher beings at every twist and turn by blinding them with sexual and material desires.

 

But even these ignorant demons will fail in the end.

 

For there is nothing in the Universe which can defy the Will of the Universe/Creator himself.

Edited September 7, 2011 by tulku

[Marblehead]

As Taoism was not mentioned in any of the above posts the only thing I will say is that what is being said is "NOT" Taoist philosophy.

[xabir2005]

Love and desire are not necessarily the same.

 

The Buddha teaches the cultivation of positive qualities like loving kindness and compassion, and the liberation and abandonment of afflictions such as desires, hatred, and so on.

[Marblehead]

Love and desire are not necessarily the same.

 

Agree. I would even go so far as to say:

 

Love and desire are not the same concept at all.

[Jetsun]

There are different forms of love, there is possessive restricted love and there is indiscriminate free love without conditions. The first can trap you I agree but the second is liberating.

[Marblehead]

There are different forms of love, there is possessive restricted love and there is indiscriminate free love without conditions. The first can trap you I agree but the second is liberating.

 

Hehehe. I don't know much about love but I am inclined to agree with you. Reduction and or removal of desires can also be liberating.

 

So we feed love and starve desires.

[Kali Yuga]

If there was no love we would have killed each other all off, a long, long time ago.

 

I think you underestimate the power or love to raise consciousness and create good karma. Also you refuse to even differentiate between love and desire - it could be that you haven't learned to tell the two apart, oh mighty tulku master.

 

Even enlightened beings are always streaming down their love and their light. It is love that heals karmic wounds, that raises vibrational consciousness of a being from one of unhealthy vibrations to one of healthy vibrations. Do you think that the Buddha, Jesus, or any other high master refuses to shine down his love on other people?

 

Or are they like you, who are too haughty and "too superior" and just scoff at the rest of us because they are so called "better" ? Do you think gaining some nice powers and entry into Universe B is going to make everything all right? You'll find that the same dynamic exists anywhere you go - that there are those who have power, and there are those who have love.

 

There are endless worlds you could go to with powers - but without love it does you no good because it is the only thing separating one person's cleanliness of energy and being versus a polluted entity, trapped in suffering and delusions regardless of the world or dimension. It's not easy to help another being to guide him to not indulge in the behaviors that cause his suffering, but I tell you without love you are all out of luck.

 

Love is the most basic teaching. Without it you are hopeless. You love to talk about Buddha, but you shun the most basic precepts of right speech (broken by you calling us here subhuman losers and the like, when a real aspirant does not resort to insults so easily), right conduct (broken by you conducting yourself in such a condescending, unbecoming, and NON HUMBLE behavior of a true aspirant), and LOVING COMPASSION for all beings. You have NO HOPE WHATSOEVER of becoming a true boddhisattva if you can not even master the most simple precept of them all, love. You can't just cherry pick the shit like you've been doing for so long, so as to make things look like "all the masters support my point of view etc" and then abandon the very same masters when they say something that doesn't fit your point.

 

You have such a long way to go, it's crazy. Oops did I just wound your ego again? Come quick give another insult. Tell us we are ignorant losers. Are you becoming tired yet?

 

You just barge in here and think that you're going to tell everyone else the ABC's of the universe when you fail to recognize even the serious cultivation that many of us on here have done - you can't even show respect or kinship to other people, or recognize the difficulty of achieving what they have done, to become who they are - and then you are going to demand that we take you seriously?

 

You are only lucky that many of the folks here on this forum are much higher than your childish behavior has exuded over many of the threads you've made, which is why they don't resort to the same kind of cut and paste rhetoric and condescending demeanor that you choose to behave with.

 

Do you think the monks in REAL monastic communities will take you seriously if you can't even behave properly, or scoff at their most fundamental teaching of love? You've shown that there is no humility in you - and that you can't even post without having the need to act like you're a boss and a know it all.

 

You are what I call a spiritual materialist - someone who talks about being spiritual, and then acts like they have the authority to teach others while at the same time looking down upon them.

 

You're no accomplished practitioner - you're no better than the pharisees in the synagogues that Jesus talked about - the ones who talk like they know it, quote verses by the book, suppose to teach others and look down on those who are not like him. The prideful hypocrites. He warned us of your kind a long time ago.

 

 

Go home, you are no tulku. You're just a wanna be.

[Marblehead]

 

There are endless worlds you could go to with powers - but without love it does you no good ...

 

Reminded me of a song. (Hehehe. Nearly everything in life reminds me of a song.)

 

"I could conquer the world,

But then what would I have?

Without love,

There is nothing,

At all."

[FixXxer1846]

Surprises me that negative trolling like this is allowed. It will push away all rational people. I just came here to dump some info, to be picked in the Google engine, so don't mind me. Pay back for some of the insights I gleaned from the Tao Bums forum, but mostly from Drew Hempel and that Matt W-something person.

 

I've done a different kind of research for many many years. Most of the time you can't say what's what, but I've seen evidence that the entire alternative community, online and off-line is penetrated by persons tied to the CIA (works through private institutes, also domestically, just as the 60s and 70s) and Pentagon - maybe State. Also was surprised to find documents with persons like that setting up chapters of the Raelien and Bhagwan cults (registered at the same address of a person who was caught photographing children's bodies at morgues--never made the news), in addition to all the NWO, Illuminati, Annunaki, Reptilian promoting groups out there. Tricky thing, allowing everyone irrational and hypernegative to say what they want. But like I said, don't mind me.

 

Love and sexual desire are two different things. Coincidentally posted about that in the last few days. Love is very quiet, can be even boring. Romance and emotions go through the roof when sexual energy is building up. But love... very different. In fact, there's evidence in reincanation and near death experience research (which also counts the involvement of some curious individuals) to show that love is the energy that holds the universe together. Little to do with sexual desire. Apparently the soul is pure love. It merges with the physical body/ego/brains at birth. In that way people are continually challenged to take the high or the low road. Darwin was right, but there's every indication there's a lot more.

[Marblehead]

Darwin was right, but there's every indication there's a lot more.

 

Ah! And you are so right. But let's not just make up silly stuff. Let's base our 'findings' on good logic and reasoning.

[deci belle]

[Mal]

Tulk

 

Stop posting quotes without a reference or a the very least a quote box.

 

You are also posting quite a lot of copyrighted material.

 

Don't.

[lifeforce]

 

This is the Will of the Creator.

 

 

For there is nothing in the Universe which can defy the Will of the Universe/Creator himself.

 

Who/what is this 'Creator', Bodyoflight ?

Who/what created the creator ......................?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Now, i know this is slightly out of context, but i think it delivers the proper blow to this idea.

 

The only difference between taoism and buddhism is in name.

 

The enjoyment of things prevent the cultivation on non-dualism and non-attachment of the mind.

 

Even the master taoist sages will retreat to caves when attempting the pinnacle of spiritual cultivation.

 

Check out Wudang, Emei and other taoist sects in China which seclude themselves in the mountains. Why do you think is so?

 

Why aren't most taoist masters enjoying life in the cities if it doesn't hinder anything?

 

 

The only difference between bhuddism and taoism is the personification of a deity

 

Even the master taoist sages emerge from retreat in caves.

 

Why not?

 

Because they have risen above the need to partake, through experiences which include indulgence

 

In other words, while there are gods and creators and such all-powerful deities with plans to uplift the human species through rigorous practice and deprivation exercises (no sex, drugs, and rock & roll), their plans obviously didnt include gaurentee. WE have to use our will to experience. EVEN IF it takes an infinite number of reincarnations, we have an infinite amount of time to do it. stop worrying, it will only hold you back.

 

WORRY is the real killer here friends, why worry? let go.

 

The approach of this thread belies it's own intentions to free us from our own bondage by being submitted in bondage of worry.

[tulku]

If there was no love we would have killed each other all off, a long, long time ago.

 

I think you underestimate the power or love to raise consciousness and create good karma. Also you refuse to even differentiate between love and desire - it could be that you haven't learned to tell the two apart, oh mighty tulku master.

 

Even enlightened beings are always streaming down their love and their light. It is love that heals karmic wounds, that raises vibrational consciousness of a being from one of unhealthy vibrations to one of healthy vibrations. Do you think that the Buddha, Jesus, or any other high master refuses to shine down his love on other people?

 

Or are they like you, who are too haughty and "too superior" and just scoff at the rest of us because they are so called "better" ? Do you think gaining some nice powers and entry into Universe B is going to make everything all right? You'll find that the same dynamic exists anywhere you go - that there are those who have power, and there are those who have love.

 

There are endless worlds you could go to with powers - but without love it does you no good because it is the only thing separating one person's cleanliness of energy and being versus a polluted entity, trapped in suffering and delusions regardless of the world or dimension. It's not easy to help another being to guide him to not indulge in the behaviors that cause his suffering, but I tell you without love you are all out of luck.

 

Love is the most basic teaching. Without it you are hopeless. You love to talk about Buddha, but you shun the most basic precepts of right speech (broken by you calling us here subhuman losers and the like, when a real aspirant does not resort to insults so easily), right conduct (broken by you conducting yourself in such a condescending, unbecoming, and NON HUMBLE behavior of a true aspirant), and LOVING COMPASSION for all beings. You have NO HOPE WHATSOEVER of becoming a true boddhisattva if you can not even master the most simple precept of them all, love. You can't just cherry pick the shit like you've been doing for so long, so as to make things look like "all the masters support my point of view etc" and then abandon the very same masters when they say something that doesn't fit your point.

 

You have such a long way to go, it's crazy. Oops did I just wound your ego again? Come quick give another insult. Tell us we are ignorant losers. Are you becoming tired yet?

 

You just barge in here and think that you're going to tell everyone else the ABC's of the universe when you fail to recognize even the serious cultivation that many of us on here have done - you can't even show respect or kinship to other people, or recognize the difficulty of achieving what they have done, to become who they are - and then you are going to demand that we take you seriously?

 

You are only lucky that many of the folks here on this forum are much higher than your childish behavior has exuded over many of the threads you've made, which is why they don't resort to the same kind of cut and paste rhetoric and condescending demeanor that you choose to behave with.

 

Do you think the monks in REAL monastic communities will take you seriously if you can't even behave properly, or scoff at their most fundamental teaching of love? You've shown that there is no humility in you - and that you can't even post without having the need to act like you're a boss and a know it all.

 

You are what I call a spiritual materialist - someone who talks about being spiritual, and then acts like they have the authority to teach others while at the same time looking down upon them.

 

You're no accomplished practitioner - you're no better than the pharisees in the synagogues that Jesus talked about - the ones who talk like they know it, quote verses by the book, suppose to teach others and look down on those who are not like him. The prideful hypocrites. He warned us of your kind a long time ago.

 

 

Go home, you are no tulku. You're just a wanna be.

 

love is only needed to create good karma in the lower worlds because the inhabitants of the lower worlds do not have the wisdom to differentiate right from wrong

 

the same dynamic do not exist everywhere.. in the upper worlds, the beings have so much wisdom that they do not need love to be kind to each other..

 

love is not the most basic thing.. wisdom is the most basic thing..

 

love without wisdom make humans behave like animals

 

but a being possessing wisdom without love can still act wisely and compassionately

 

i am a wannabe but at least i am a wannabe on the right track instead of being a fool who mindlessly preaches about love

Edited September 7, 2011 by tulku

[tulku]

Love and desire are not necessarily the same.

 

The Buddha teaches the cultivation of positive qualities like loving kindness and compassion, and the liberation and abandonment of afflictions such as desires, hatred, and so on.

 

loving kindness and compassion are intellectual qualities

 

a wise being knows how to be kind and compassionate without ever feeling love

Edited September 7, 2011 by tulku

[C T]

loving kindness and compassion are intellectual qualities

 

a wise being know how to be kind and compassionate without ever feeling love

Only in the cultivation stages where one goes thru certain practices to transform old (negative)habits by gradually focussing on a new set of positive habits. This can be done in a multitude of ways, beginning with first having the right intentions or aspirations.

 

When transformation has been effected, then these new habits will take root and become second nature, arising in spontaneous ways and in all situations, similar to a child being naturally drawn to its parent. Once stabilization is maintained on a constant basis, then these new qualities cannot be said to remain as mere intellectual contemplations.

[tulku]

Only in the cultivation stages where one goes thru certain practices to transform old (negative)habits by gradually focussing on a new set of positive habits. This can be done in a multitude of ways, beginning with first having the right intentions or aspirations.

 

When transformation has been effected, then these new habits will take root and become second nature, arising in spontaneous ways and in all situations, similar to a child being naturally drawn to its parent. Once stabilization is maintained on a constant basis, then these new qualities cannot be said to remain as mere intellectual contemplations.

 

ever since i was born, i know how to be kind and compassionate without even feeling these qualities

 

and i do random acts of kindness and compassion without even feeling these qualities

 

one needs to be kind and compassion in their minds instead of in their hearts

 

that is when acts of kindness and compassion get propogated

 

as i said, it is a wisdom thingy

Edited September 8, 2011 by tulku

[gendao]

I understand that during past 15 months, certain higher beings have given most of the human race upgrades through the human heart so most people mistakenly think that Love is the most important factor to Enlightenment.

Very interesting...where did you hear this from? Source, please??

[tulku]

Very interesting...where did you hear this from? Source, please??

 

LOL! That is very funny. Source told me.

Edited September 8, 2011 by tulku